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Recommended debootsrap tutorials

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  Recommended debootsrap tutorials Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-12-12 17:00 +0100
    Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2018-12-12 19:50 +0100
      Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-12-12 20:20 +0100
      Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-12-13 14:00 +0100
        Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-12-13 21:00 +0100
          Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-12-14 12:00 +0100
            Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-12-14 15:00 +0100
              Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-12-14 15:30 +0100
                Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-12-14 15:30 +0100
                  Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2018-12-14 20:20 +0100
                    Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-12-14 21:00 +0100
                      Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-12-14 21:10 +0100
              Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2018-12-14 15:50 +0100
                Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-12-14 16:30 +0100
                Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-12-14 16:40 +0100
                Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-12-14 17:50 +0100
                  Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-12-14 20:30 +0100
    Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-05-18 11:50 +0200
      Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-05-18 20:10 +0200
        Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-05-18 22:50 +0200
          Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-05-19 14:00 +0200
            Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-05-19 19:40 +0200
              Re: Recommended debootsrap tutorials Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-05-20 18:20 +0200

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#203314 — Recommended debootsrap tutorials

I was introduced to Linux when Squeeze had become "stable".
I thought default installs were not only too obese but didn't have some 
of my desired packages. That led to educational (& reasonably fruitful) 
experiments with preseeding.

As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small a 
useful Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap. I 
didn't have needed background at that time. I've continued to pursue the 
literature sporadically.

One of the problems was everything seemed to be focused on a foreign 
architecture &/or release &/or being run on a non-Debian machine.

My interest has been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap. To 
that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.

Summary:
Target will be another partition on my current machine.
I will use the same release and architecture of the current machine.

In addition to relevant man pages I refer to:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/apds03.html

https://www.thegeekstuff.com/2010/01/debootstrap-minimal-debian-ubuntu-installation/

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/how-to-install-debian-using-debootstrap-4175465295/

https://gist.github.com/tr3buchet/6407920

https://debian-administration.org/article/426/Installing_new_Debian_systems_with_debootstrap

https://www.linux.com/news/cli-magic-installing-debian-gnulinux-using-debootstrap

http://linux-sunxi.org/Bootable_SD_card#Using_debootstrap_-_Debian.2FUbuntu_based_distributions

Any others I should be reading?

TIA

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#203319

Richard Owlett wrote:

...
> My interest has been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap. To 
> that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.


  have you looked at the source code ?

  https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/debootstrap/tree/master

  it is written in sh.  which isn't too obscure a language...


  songbird

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#203321

On Wed 12 Dec 2018 at 13:47:18 -0500, songbird wrote:

> Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> ...
> > My interest has been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap. To 
> > that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
> 
> 
>   have you looked at the source code ?
> 
>   https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/debootstrap/tree/master
> 
>   it is written in sh.  which isn't too obscure a language...

It is appreciated that you are trying to be helpful, but I suspect
Richard Owlett's ability to read and alter the debootstrap code to
suit his needs is limited. If he wishes to understand debootstrap
(his stated objective) he has to use it and experiment. No one can
read the docs for him.

This is an ongoing and unresolved issue for him for quite a number
of years. Whatever "minimalist" means, he could probably achieve
it within the installer; as has been pointed out to him a number of
times.

-- 
Brian.

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#203331

On 12/12/2018 12:47 PM, songbird wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> ...
>> My interest has been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap. To
>> that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
> 
>    have you looked at the source code ?

No.

> 
>    https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/debootstrap/tree/master
> 
>    it is written in sh.  which isn't too obscure a language...

Having assumed [erroneously] that it was written in a compiled language, 
I hadn't looked for source.
As to obscurity/opaqueness of sh. *It ain't* ;/
Especially to one introduced [in early 60's] to programming via 
CORC/CUPL {predecessor *NOT* precursor of Dartmouth BASIC}.

That code is not an answer to my stated question. But it demonstrates 
that some personal goals are feasible.

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#203348

Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 12/12/2018 12:47 PM, songbird wrote:
>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> 
>> ...
>>> My interest has been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap. To
>>> that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
>> 
>> have you looked at the source code ?
> 
> No.
> 
>> 
>> https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/debootstrap/tree/master
>> 
>> it is written in sh.  which isn't too obscure a language...
> 
> Having assumed [erroneously] that it was written in a compiled language,
> I hadn't looked for source.
> As to obscurity/opaqueness of sh. *It ain't* ;/
> Especially to one introduced [in early 60's] to programming via
> CORC/CUPL {predecessor *NOT* precursor of Dartmouth BASIC}.
> 
> That code is not an answer to my stated question. But it demonstrates
> that some personal goals are feasible.

So why not install minimal debian and try removing what you won't need.
I get around 100MBs to be able to do something useful with it.
There is i.e. Slax (with minimal TDE inkl. GUI) and is about 350MB image.
You can boot your PC and do something useful.

So what is the goal of your exercise? Personal?

regards

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#203369

On 12/13/2018 01:51 PM, deloptes wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> So why not install minimal debian and try removing what you won't need.
> I get around 100MBs to be able to do something useful with it.
> There is i.e. Slax (with minimal TDE inkl. GUI) and is about 350MB image.
> You can boot your PC and do something useful.
> 
> So what is the goal of your exercise? Personal?
> 

You might say personal exercise of the cerebral variety.

As I've said:

> As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small a 
> useful Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap. > I didn't have needed background at that time.> ...> My interest has 
been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap.
> To that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.

Debootstrap is powerful. It can be used:
1. in any Linux
2. to install any Debian release
3. to install to any architecture
Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}

The "tutorials" I found tried to be all things to all people.
Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}

Think of my "problem" as an end of course lab practical which might be 
phrased as:
     Using you current machine with any Debian debian release installed
     and access to a suitable repository, use dedbootstrap to do a
     minimalist [1] bootable install to another partition.


[1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/minimalist

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#203372

On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 04:56:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 12/13/2018 01:51 PM, deloptes wrote:
> > [snip]
> > 
> > So why not install minimal debian and try removing what you won't need.
> > I get around 100MBs to be able to do something useful with it.
> > There is i.e. Slax (with minimal TDE inkl. GUI) and is about 350MB image.
> > You can boot your PC and do something useful.
> > 
> > So what is the goal of your exercise? Personal?
> > 
> 
> You might say personal exercise of the cerebral variety.
> 
> As I've said:
> 
> > As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small a
> > useful Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap. > I
> > didn't have needed background at that time.> ...> My interest has
> been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap.
> > To that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
> 
> Debootstrap is powerful. It can be used:
> 1. in any Linux
> 2. to install any Debian release
> 3. to install to any architecture

Correct.

> Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
> 
> The "tutorials" I found tried to be all things to all people.

Appendix D.3 in the installer manual doesn't seem to do such a bad job.

> Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
> 
> Think of my "problem" as an end of course lab practical which might be
> phrased as:
>     Using you current machine with any Debian debian release installed
>     and access to a suitable repository, use dedbootstrap to do a
>     minimalist [1] bootable install to another partition.
> 
> 
> [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/minimalist

Mmm. "minimalist" is a moving target. Do I really need both nano and
vim.tiny? Why bother with ifupdown when systemd is there or no network
is required? Ditto for isc-dhcp-client. libapparmor1, rsyslog, tasksel?
I'm fairly sure the machine will boot without any of these present.

Do I pass the end of course lab practical?

-- 
Brian.

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#203374

On 12/14/2018 07:57 AM, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 04:56:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
>> On 12/13/2018 01:51 PM, deloptes wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> So why not install minimal debian and try removing what you won't need.
>>> I get around 100MBs to be able to do something useful with it.
>>> There is i.e. Slax (with minimal TDE inkl. GUI) and is about 350MB image.
>>> You can boot your PC and do something useful.
>>>
>>> So what is the goal of your exercise? Personal?
>>>
>>
>> You might say personal exercise of the cerebral variety.
>>
>> As I've said:
>>
>>> As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small a
>>> useful Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap. > I
>>> didn't have needed background at that time.> ...> My interest has
>> been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap.
>>> To that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
>>
>> Debootstrap is powerful. It can be used:
>> 1. in any Linux
>> 2. to install any Debian release
>> 3. to install to any architecture
> 
> Correct.
> 
>> Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
>>
>> The "tutorials" I found tried to be all things to all people.
> 
> Appendix D.3 in the installer manual doesn't seem to do such a bad job.
> 
>> Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
>>
>> Think of my "problem" as an end of course lab practical which might be
>> phrased as:
>>      Using you current machine with any Debian debian release installed
>>      and access to a suitable repository, use dedbootstrap to do a
>>      minimalist [1] bootable install to another partition.
>>
>>
>> [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/minimalist
> 
> Mmm. "minimalist" is a moving target. Do I really need both nano and
> vim.tiny? Why bother with ifupdown when systemd is there or no network
> is required? Ditto for isc-dhcp-client. libapparmor1, rsyslog, tasksel?
> I'm fairly sure the machine will boot without any of these present.
> 
> Do I pass the end of course lab practical?
> 

I've seen a signature line to the effect "if in doubt, then reread".
I might suggest that includes why a specific footnote is chosen.

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#203375

On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 08:22:06 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 12/14/2018 07:57 AM, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 04:56:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > 
> > > On 12/13/2018 01:51 PM, deloptes wrote:
> > > > [snip]
> > > > 
> > > > So why not install minimal debian and try removing what you won't need.
> > > > I get around 100MBs to be able to do something useful with it.
> > > > There is i.e. Slax (with minimal TDE inkl. GUI) and is about 350MB image.
> > > > You can boot your PC and do something useful.
> > > > 
> > > > So what is the goal of your exercise? Personal?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > You might say personal exercise of the cerebral variety.
> > > 
> > > As I've said:
> > > 
> > > > As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small a
> > > > useful Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap. > I
> > > > didn't have needed background at that time.> ...> My interest has
> > > been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap.
> > > > To that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
> > > 
> > > Debootstrap is powerful. It can be used:
> > > 1. in any Linux
> > > 2. to install any Debian release
> > > 3. to install to any architecture
> > 
> > Correct.
> > 
> > > Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
> > > 
> > > The "tutorials" I found tried to be all things to all people.
> > 
> > Appendix D.3 in the installer manual doesn't seem to do such a bad job.
> > 
> > > Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
> > > 
> > > Think of my "problem" as an end of course lab practical which might be
> > > phrased as:
> > >      Using you current machine with any Debian debian release installed
> > >      and access to a suitable repository, use dedbootstrap to do a
> > >      minimalist [1] bootable install to another partition.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/minimalist
> > 
> > Mmm. "minimalist" is a moving target. Do I really need both nano and
> > vim.tiny? Why bother with ifupdown when systemd is there or no network
> > is required? Ditto for isc-dhcp-client. libapparmor1, rsyslog, tasksel?
> > I'm fairly sure the machine will boot without any of these present.
> > 
> > Do I pass the end of course lab practical?
> > 
> 
> I've seen a signature line to the effect "if in doubt, then reread".
> I might suggest that includes why a specific footnote is chosen.

You've lost me.

-- 
Brian.

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#203381

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 02:26:38PM +0000, Brian wrote:
>On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 08:22:06 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> On 12/14/2018 07:57 AM, Brian wrote:
>> > On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 04:56:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> >
>> > > On 12/13/2018 01:51 PM, deloptes wrote:
>> > > > [snip]
>> > > >
>> > > > So why not install minimal debian and try removing what you won't need.
>> > > > I get around 100MBs to be able to do something useful with it.
>> > > > There is i.e. Slax (with minimal TDE inkl. GUI) and is about 350MB image.
>> > > > You can boot your PC and do something useful.
>> > > >
>> > > > So what is the goal of your exercise? Personal?
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > You might say personal exercise of the cerebral variety.
>> > >
>> > > As I've said:
>> > >
>> > > > As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small a
>> > > > useful Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap. > I
>> > > > didn't have needed background at that time.> ...> My interest has
>> > > been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap.
>> > > > To that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
>> > >
>> > > Debootstrap is powerful. It can be used:
>> > > 1. in any Linux
>> > > 2. to install any Debian release
>> > > 3. to install to any architecture
>> >
>> > Correct.
>> >
>> > > Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
>> > >
>> > > The "tutorials" I found tried to be all things to all people.
>> >
>> > Appendix D.3 in the installer manual doesn't seem to do such a bad job.
>> >
>> > > Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
>> > >
>> > > Think of my "problem" as an end of course lab practical which might be
>> > > phrased as:
>> > >      Using you current machine with any Debian debian release installed
>> > >      and access to a suitable repository, use dedbootstrap to do a
>> > >      minimalist [1] bootable install to another partition.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/minimalist
>> >
>> > Mmm. "minimalist" is a moving target. Do I really need both nano and
>> > vim.tiny? Why bother with ifupdown when systemd is there or no network
>> > is required? Ditto for isc-dhcp-client. libapparmor1, rsyslog, tasksel?
>> > I'm fairly sure the machine will boot without any of these present.
>> >
>> > Do I pass the end of course lab practical?
>> >
>>
>> I've seen a signature line to the effect "if in doubt, then reread".
>> I might suggest that includes why a specific footnote is chosen.
>
>You've lost me.
>
>-- 
>Brian.
>

Might it be something like mine?

-- 
For more information, please reread.

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#203383

On 12/14/2018 09:40 AM, Darac Marjal wrote:
> [snip]
>>>
>>> I've seen a signature line to the effect "if in doubt, then reread".
>>> I might suggest that includes why a specific footnote is chosen.
>>
>> You've lost me.
>>
>> -- 
>> Brian.
>>
> 
> Might it be something like mine?
> 

*YES*! "For more information, please reread." was what it was.
Got any references to other such gems.
Especially any to the effect that reader should assume that author said 
what he meant and meant what he said.

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#203384

On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 13:50:33 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 12/14/2018 09:40 AM, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > > 
> > > > I've seen a signature line to the effect "if in doubt, then reread".
> > > > I might suggest that includes why a specific footnote is chosen.
> > > 
> > > You've lost me.
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Brian.
> > > 
> > 
> > Might it be something like mine?
> > 
> 
> *YES*! "For more information, please reread." was what it was.
> Got any references to other such gems.
> Especially any to the effect that reader should assume that author said what
> he meant and meant what he said.

Sodding hell! You are more intent on getting people to bend to your
will than you are in exploring the intricacies of debootstrap and
what it can do for you.

-- 
Brian.

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#203376

On Fri, 2018-12-14 at 13:57 +0000, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 04:56:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> > On 12/13/2018 01:51 PM, deloptes wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > > 
> > > So why not install minimal debian and try removing what you won't
> > > need.
> > > I get around 100MBs to be able to do something useful with it.
> > > There is i.e. Slax (with minimal TDE inkl. GUI) and is about
> > > 350MB image.
> > > You can boot your PC and do something useful.
> > > 
> > > So what is the goal of your exercise? Personal?
> > > 
> > 
> > You might say personal exercise of the cerebral variety.
> > 
> > As I've said:
> > 
> > > As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small
> > > a
> > > useful Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap.
> > > > I
> > > didn't have needed background at that time.> ...> My interest has
> > 
> > been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap.
> > > To that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
> > 
> > Debootstrap is powerful. It can be used:
> > 1. in any Linux
> > 2. to install any Debian release
> > 3. to install to any architecture
> 
> Correct.
> 
> > Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
> > 
> > The "tutorials" I found tried to be all things to all people.
> 
> Appendix D.3 in the installer manual doesn't seem to do such a bad
> job.
> 
> > Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
> > 
> > Think of my "problem" as an end of course lab practical which might
> > be
> > phrased as:
> >     Using you current machine with any Debian debian release
> > installed
> >     and access to a suitable repository, use dedbootstrap to do a
> >     minimalist [1] bootable install to another partition.
> > 
> > 
> > [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/minimalist
> 
> Mmm. "minimalist" is a moving target. Do I really need both nano and
> vim.tiny? Why bother with ifupdown when systemd is there or no
> network
> is required? Ditto for isc-dhcp-client. libapparmor1, rsyslog,
> tasksel?
> I'm fairly sure the machine will boot without any of these present.

Machine will boot with a single init program (could be a shell like
busybox) that is stored in an initrd. So this minimalist install
partition would just have /boot/vmlinuz and /boot/initrd.img (or just
vmlinuz if the initrd was built into the kernel binary).

Of course, this may not meet the functional requirements, but the OP
hasn't specified any of those, just that they system be 'minimalist'.

-- 
Tixy

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#203377

On 2018-12-14, Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Machine will boot with a single init program (could be a shell like
> busybox) that is stored in an initrd. So this minimalist install
> partition would just have /boot/vmlinuz and /boot/initrd.img (or just
> vmlinuz if the initrd was built into the kernel binary).
>
> Of course, this may not meet the functional requirements, but the OP
> hasn't specified any of those, just that they system be 'minimalist'.
>

During the net-installation process, when the installer proclaims, "At
the moment, only the core of the system is installed..." and presents
the user with a list of software to "tune the system to your needs," you
deselect whatever is ticked by default on that list.

That must give you something rather minimal (though it may not satisfy
the purists in the crowd, who are legion).

I wonder whether you could precede the process above with a preseed file
to that effect.

I guess the network wouldn't come up without further manual ado after
grub installation and a reboot.

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#203378

On 12/14/2018 08:42 AM, Tixy wrote:
> On Fri, 2018-12-14 at 13:57 +0000, Brian wrote:
>> On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 04:56:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/13/2018 01:51 PM, deloptes wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> So why not install minimal debian and try removing what you won't
>>>> need.
>>>> I get around 100MBs to be able to do something useful with it.
>>>> There is i.e. Slax (with minimal TDE inkl. GUI) and is about
>>>> 350MB image.
>>>> You can boot your PC and do something useful.
>>>>
>>>> So what is the goal of your exercise? Personal?
>>>>
>>>
>>> You might say personal exercise of the cerebral variety.
>>>
>>> As I've said:
>>>
>>>> As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small
>>>> a
>>>> useful Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap.
>>>>> I
>>>> didn't have needed background at that time.> ...> My interest has
>>>
>>> been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap.
>>>> To that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
>>>
>>> Debootstrap is powerful. It can be used:
>>> 1. in any Linux
>>> 2. to install any Debian release
>>> 3. to install to any architecture
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>>> Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
>>>
>>> The "tutorials" I found tried to be all things to all people.
>>
>> Appendix D.3 in the installer manual doesn't seem to do such a bad
>> job.
>>
>>> Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
>>>
>>> Think of my "problem" as an end of course lab practical which might
>>> be
>>> phrased as:
>>>      Using you current machine with any Debian debian release
>>> installed
>>>      and access to a suitable repository, use dedbootstrap to do a
>>>      minimalist [1] bootable install to another partition.
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/minimalist
>>
>> Mmm. "minimalist" is a moving target. Do I really need both nano and
>> vim.tiny? Why bother with ifupdown when systemd is there or no
>> network
>> is required? Ditto for isc-dhcp-client. libapparmor1, rsyslog,
>> tasksel?
>> I'm fairly sure the machine will boot without any of these present.
> 
> Machine will boot with a single init program (could be a shell like
> busybox) that is stored in an initrd. So this minimalist install
> partition would just have /boot/vmlinuz and /boot/initrd.img (or just
> vmlinuz if the initrd was built into the kernel binary).
> 
> Of course, this may not meet the functional requirements, but the OP
> hasn't specified any of those, just that they system be 'minimalist'.
> 

q.v.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/12/msg00388.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/debootstrap/debootstrap.8.en.html

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#203380

On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 14:42:53 (+0000), Tixy wrote:
> On Fri, 2018-12-14 at 13:57 +0000, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 04:56:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > On 12/13/2018 01:51 PM, deloptes wrote:
> > > > [snip]
> > > > So why not install minimal debian and try removing what you won't
> > > > need.
> > > > I get around 100MBs to be able to do something useful with it.
> > > > There is i.e. Slax (with minimal TDE inkl. GUI) and is about
> > > > 350MB image.
> > > > You can boot your PC and do something useful.
> > > > 
> > > > So what is the goal of your exercise? Personal?
> > > > 
> > > You might say personal exercise of the cerebral variety.
> > > 
> > > As I've said:
> > > 
> > > > As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small
> > > > a
> > > > useful Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap.
> > > > > I
> > > > didn't have needed background at that time.> ...> My interest has
> > > 
> > > been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap.
> > > > To that end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
> > > 
> > > Debootstrap is powerful. It can be used:
> > > 1. in any Linux
> > > 2. to install any Debian release
> > > 3. to install to any architecture
> > 
> > Correct.
> > 
> > > Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
> > > 
> > > The "tutorials" I found tried to be all things to all people.
> > 
> > Appendix D.3 in the installer manual doesn't seem to do such a bad
> > job.
> > 
> > > Notice a repeated 3-letter word ;}
> > > 
> > > Think of my "problem" as an end of course lab practical which might
> > > be
> > > phrased as:
> > >     Using you current machine with any Debian debian release
> > > installed
> > >     and access to a suitable repository, use dedbootstrap to do a
> > >     minimalist [1] bootable install to another partition.
> > > 
> > > [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/minimalist
> > 
> > Mmm. "minimalist" is a moving target. Do I really need both nano and
> > vim.tiny? Why bother with ifupdown when systemd is there or no
> > network
> > is required? Ditto for isc-dhcp-client. libapparmor1, rsyslog,
> > tasksel?
> > I'm fairly sure the machine will boot without any of these present.
> 
> Machine will boot with a single init program (could be a shell like
> busybox) that is stored in an initrd. So this minimalist install
> partition would just have /boot/vmlinuz and /boot/initrd.img (or just
> vmlinuz if the initrd was built into the kernel binary).
> 
> Of course, this may not meet the functional requirements, but the OP
> hasn't specified any of those, just that they system be 'minimalist'.

… which ensures that there's no "right answer" because the OP doesn't
specify for what purpose this bare minimum is intended, except their
own personal satisfaction.

The OP's mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?"
and this learning requires copious feeding with lists of "tutorials"
suggested by people here. Even the source code doesn't fit their
criteria. I haven't yet figured out why their learning doesn't include
the compilation process itself.

Literature searches are a necessary part of any research that has to
be learnt. Unfortunately, many students these days, from bachelor to
doctorate levels, think that all it entails is a spot of googling for
web links.

Cheers,
David.

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#203382

On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 10:47:09 -0600, David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 14 Dec 2018 at 14:42:53 (+0000), Tixy wrote:

[...]

> > Of course, this may not meet the functional requirements, but the OP
> > hasn't specified any of those, just that they system be 'minimalist'.
> 
> … which ensures that there's no "right answer" because the OP doesn't
> specify for what purpose this bare minimum is intended, except their
> own personal satisfaction.

I agree there is no "right answer" and that the purpose for taking the
steps one does is of importance. However, the OP did say in his first
mail in this thread

 > ...my interest was focused on finding out just how small a useful
 > Debian system could be,...

There is probably no correct answer to what "useful" means either.
However, I would say it is a reasonable objective if approached in a
spirit of exploration.

He goes on to say

 > I wish to understand debootstrap.

and I thought my well-intentioned previous post would push him towards
a little experimentation and appreciation of the differences between my
minimal and his minimal. For unexplained reasons on his part, it was
not to be. There were enough hooks in the post to latch on to.

He also said

 > Target will be another partition on my current machine.
 > I will use the same release and architecture of the current machine.

That's particulary easy. Appendix D.3 in the installer manual holds your
hand.

 
> The OP's mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?"
> and this learning requires copious feeding with lists of "tutorials"
> suggested by people here. Even the source code doesn't fit their
> criteria. I haven't yet figured out why their learning doesn't include
> the compilation process itself.
> 
> Literature searches are a necessary part of any research that has to
> be learnt. Unfortunately, many students these days, from bachelor to
> doctorate levels, think that all it entails is a spot of googling for
> web links.

As a general comment, that last remark is unfortunately probably true
of some students. "Gimme the answer." "I'll do it my way." "That's only
*your* opinion."

-- 
Brian.

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#208784

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mi, 12 dec 18, 09:56:09, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small a useful
> Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap. I didn't have
> needed background at that time. I've continued to pursue the literature
> sporadically.
> 
> One of the problems was everything seemed to be focused on a foreign
> architecture &/or release &/or being run on a non-Debian machine.
> 
> My interest has been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap. To that
> end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
> 
> Summary:
> Target will be another partition on my current machine.
> I will use the same release and architecture of the current machine.

Hi Richard,

Because I wanted to run pure Debian and didn't like the customizations 
the pre-built PINE A64+ images had I wrote a small script to build my 
own (bootable) images.

https://salsa.debian.org/amp-guest/pine64/blob/master/pine64_buildimage

It could serve as inspiration (or base) to write your own script.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#208807

On 05/18/2019 04:44 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Mi, 12 dec 18, 09:56:09, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>
>> As some of my interest was focused on finding out just how small a useful
>> Debian system could be, I was pointed towards debootstrap. I didn't have
>> needed background at that time. I've continued to pursue the literature
>> sporadically.
>>
>> One of the problems was everything seemed to be focused on a foreign
>> architecture &/or release &/or being run on a non-Debian machine.
>>
>> My interest has been rekindled. I wish to understand debootstrap. To that
>> end I do a minimalist bootable Debian installation.
>>
>> Summary:
>> Target will be another partition on my current machine.
>> I will use the same release and architecture of the current machine.
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> Because I wanted to run pure Debian and didn't like the customizations
> the pre-built PINE A64+ images had I wrote a small script to build my
> own (bootable) images.
> 
> https://salsa.debian.org/amp-guest/pine64/blob/master/pine64_buildimage
> 
> It could serve as inspiration (or base) to write your own script.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> 

Thank you.
I've never used Salsa. I've found https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa/Doc .
Any other suggested reading to keep off the street and out of mischief ;}

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#208812

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sb, 18 mai 19, 13:02:52, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/18/2019 04:44 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > https://salsa.debian.org/amp-guest/pine64/blob/master/pine64_buildimage
> 
> Thank you.
> I've never used Salsa. I've found https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa/Doc .
> Any other suggested reading to keep off the street and out of mischief ;}
 
If - and only if - you need source code version control, you might be 
interested in git.

You only need Salsa if you want to contribute patches to Debian that 
way[1] or need a public place to upload some code.

If you really want to learn more about Salsa you need the GitLab 
docs[2]. Debian is using the Community Edition (CE).

[1] Debian package maintainers will likely accept patches in any usable 
form.
[2] https://docs.gitlab.com

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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