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librecad

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  librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-06 23:40 +0100
    Re: librecad "hdv@gmail" <hdv.jadev@gmail.com> - 2018-12-06 23:50 +0100
      Re: librecad Yves <ydubeau@pm.me> - 2018-12-07 01:30 +0100
        Re: librecad Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2018-12-07 02:10 +0100
          Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-07 03:10 +0100
        Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-07 02:50 +0100
      Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-07 01:50 +0100
        Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-07 02:50 +0100
          Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-07 03:20 +0100
            Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-07 03:30 +0100
              Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-07 04:40 +0100
              Re: librecad Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-12-07 19:50 +0100
                Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-07 20:20 +0100
                  Re: librecad Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-12-07 20:30 +0100
                  Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-08 00:50 +0100
                    Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-08 02:00 +0100
                      Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-08 03:50 +0100
                        Re: librecad Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-12-08 05:20 +0100
                          Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-08 06:50 +0100
                            Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-08 14:40 +0100
                              Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-08 20:00 +0100
                                Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-08 20:50 +0100
                                  Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-08 21:10 +0100
                                    Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-08 21:30 +0100
                                      Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-08 22:00 +0100
                                    Unpacking a large zipfile, was Re: librecad David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-12-09 00:20 +0100
                                Re: librecad "Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-12-09 00:10 +0100
                                  Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-09 01:50 +0100
                                  Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-09 02:50 +0100
                                    Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-09 03:20 +0100
                                      Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-09 03:30 +0100
                                    Re: librecad "Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-12-09 03:30 +0100
                Re: librecad (was) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-08 00:40 +0100
          Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-07 04:20 +0100
          Re: librecad Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-12-07 04:50 +0100
        Re: librecad "hdv@gmail" <hdv.jadev@gmail.com> - 2018-12-07 10:30 +0100
          Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-07 14:50 +0100
            Re: librecad "hdv@gmail" <hdv.jadev@gmail.com> - 2018-12-07 15:10 +0100
        Re: librecad Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-12-07 11:00 +0100
          Re: librecad "hdv@gmail" <hdv.jadev@gmail.com> - 2018-12-07 11:30 +0100
    Re: librecad "Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-12-07 07:50 +0100
      Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-07 14:50 +0100
        Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-07 16:20 +0100
          Re: librecad Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2018-12-08 03:00 +0100
            Re: librecad Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-08 04:30 +0100
          Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-08 04:50 +0100
      Re: librecad John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-12-07 15:10 +0100

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#203081 — librecad

Greetings all;

The librecad in the debian repos for wheezy is nearly a decade old, 
v-1.02. There are V2-* stuff that still runs on QT4 some of which is 
already installed.

Is there a repo where I can source a newer version than 1.02 without 
destroying my system?

1.02 is so old the u-tube tuts are nearly worthless, yet it shows promise 
of being able to lay out a boxes rear panel with 13 connections thru it. 
which is what I am trying to do.

Or is there an even better 2d app for such?

Thanks everybody.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#203083

On 12/6/18 11:31 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> The librecad in the debian repos for wheezy is nearly a decade old, 
> v-1.02. There are V2-* stuff that still runs on QT4 some of which is 
> already installed.
> 
> Is there a repo where I can source a newer version than 1.02 without 
> destroying my system?
> 
> 1.02 is so old the u-tube tuts are nearly worthless, yet it shows promise 
> of being able to lay out a boxes rear panel with 13 connections thru it. 
> which is what I am trying to do.
> 
> Or is there an even better 2d app for such?
> 
> Thanks everybody.

Hai Gene,

Some time ago I tried LibreCAD as well and soon had to conclude there were too
many issues with it to proceed. Meanwhile I've adopted QCAD (the Pro version)
and I am quite happy with it. I've been drawing some fairly complex stuff with
it (industrial machinery) and have been able to do almost everything I needed it
to do. Mind you it is 2D only, but as far as I can remember the same was true of
LibreCAD.

I think it might not satisfy the DFSG, as there are proprietary modules in it,
but most of the code is licensed under GPLv3.

Grx HdV

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#203087

i suggest you to crack windows 10 and dowload autodesk autocad trial 30
day and then crack it too its pretty much an easy thing to do for
everybody. Sometime free sofware just dont have it you have to hack it.

On 2018-12-06 17:48, hdv@gmail wrote:
> On 12/6/18 11:31 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Greetings all;
>>
>> The librecad in the debian repos for wheezy is nearly a decade old,
>> v-1.02. There are V2-* stuff that still runs on QT4 some of which is
>> already installed.
>>
>> Is there a repo where I can source a newer version than 1.02 without
>> destroying my system?
>>
>> 1.02 is so old the u-tube tuts are nearly worthless, yet it shows promise
>> of being able to lay out a boxes rear panel with 13 connections thru it.
>> which is what I am trying to do.
>>
>> Or is there an even better 2d app for such?
>>
>> Thanks everybody.
> Hai Gene,
>
> Some time ago I tried LibreCAD as well and soon had to conclude there were too
> many issues with it to proceed. Meanwhile I've adopted QCAD (the Pro version)
> and I am quite happy with it. I've been drawing some fairly complex stuff with
> it (industrial machinery) and have been able to do almost everything I needed it
> to do. Mind you it is 2D only, but as far as I can remember the same was true of
> LibreCAD.
>
> I think it might not satisfy the DFSG, as there are proprietary modules in it,
> but most of the code is licensed under GPLv3.
>
> Grx HdV
>

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#203090

On 12/06/2018 07:11 PM, Yves wrote:
> i suggest you to crack windows 10 and dowload autodesk autocad trial 30
> day and then crack it too its pretty much an easy thing to do for
> everybody. Sometime free sofware just dont have it you have to hack it.
>
> On 2018-12-06 17:48, hdv@gmail wrote:
>> On 12/6/18 11:31 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings all;
>>>
>>> The librecad in the debian repos for wheezy is nearly a decade old,
>>> v-1.02. There are V2-* stuff that still runs on QT4 some of which is
>>> already installed.
>>>
>>> Is there a repo where I can source a newer version than 1.02 without
>>> destroying my system?
>>>
>>> 1.02 is so old the u-tube tuts are nearly worthless, yet it shows promise
>>> of being able to lay out a boxes rear panel with 13 connections thru it.
>>> which is what I am trying to do.
>>>
>>> Or is there an even better 2d app for such?
>>>
>>> Thanks everybody.
>> Hai Gene,
>>
>> Some time ago I tried LibreCAD as well and soon had to conclude there were too
>> many issues with it to proceed. Meanwhile I've adopted QCAD (the Pro version)
>> and I am quite happy with it. I've been drawing some fairly complex stuff with
>> it (industrial machinery) and have been able to do almost everything I needed it
>> to do. Mind you it is 2D only, but as far as I can remember the same was true of
>> LibreCAD.
>>
>> I think it might not satisfy the DFSG, as there are proprietary modules in it,
>> but most of the code is licensed under GPLv3.
>>
>> Grx HdV
>>
>
You might want to look into DraftSight, a clone of AutoCad. Not free. 
Main drawback: it does not (or did not--haven't looked at it in a while) 
recognize whole word instructions, only the abbreviations of
AutoCad 11, and probably later editions. I used a lite version of 
AutoCad at work, since I am not primarily a PCB designer, and I never 
learned the abbreviations. (Now retired for 16 years.) It runs
on Linux--I have an RPM system.

--doug, retired RF engineer.

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#203095

On Thursday 06 December 2018 20:02:41 Doug wrote:

> On 12/06/2018 07:11 PM, Yves wrote:
> > i suggest you to crack windows 10 and dowload autodesk autocad trial
> > 30 day and then crack it too its pretty much an easy thing to do for
> > everybody. Sometime free sofware just dont have it you have to hack
> > it.
> >
> > On 2018-12-06 17:48, hdv@gmail wrote:
> >> On 12/6/18 11:31 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> Greetings all;
> >>>
> >>> The librecad in the debian repos for wheezy is nearly a decade
> >>> old, v-1.02. There are V2-* stuff that still runs on QT4 some of
> >>> which is already installed.
> >>>
> >>> Is there a repo where I can source a newer version than 1.02
> >>> without destroying my system?
> >>>
> >>> 1.02 is so old the u-tube tuts are nearly worthless, yet it shows
> >>> promise of being able to lay out a boxes rear panel with 13
> >>> connections thru it. which is what I am trying to do.
> >>>
> >>> Or is there an even better 2d app for such?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks everybody.
> >>
> >> Hai Gene,
> >>
> >> Some time ago I tried LibreCAD as well and soon had to conclude
> >> there were too many issues with it to proceed. Meanwhile I've
> >> adopted QCAD (the Pro version) and I am quite happy with it. I've
> >> been drawing some fairly complex stuff with it (industrial
> >> machinery) and have been able to do almost everything I needed it
> >> to do. Mind you it is 2D only, but as far as I can remember the
> >> same was true of LibreCAD.
> >>
> >> I think it might not satisfy the DFSG, as there are proprietary
> >> modules in it, but most of the code is licensed under GPLv3.
> >>
> >> Grx HdV
>
> You might want to look into DraftSight, a clone of AutoCad. Not free.
> Main drawback: it does not (or did not--haven't looked at it in a
> while) recognize whole word instructions, only the abbreviations of
> AutoCad 11, and probably later editions. I used a lite version of
> AutoCad at work, since I am not primarily a PCB designer, and I never
> learned the abbreviations. (Now retired for 16 years.) It runs
> on Linux--I have an RPM system.
>
> --doug, retired RF engineer.

Same here Doug, been retired from the CE's chair at a tv station here in 
WV USA since mid-2002. Started in '84, switched from consumer to 
broadcast in '62. I turned 84 a couple months back. Been converting 
metal carvers to be run by LinuxCNC since and keeping the local daytimer 
on the air.  Always wanting a bigger machine of coarse, but my garage is 
too full now. I'd build a bigger garage but I'm out of real estate & 
this time I'd need help, my back is going away.

I downloaded the 30 day Draftsight trial 5 or 6 years back, but got tired 
of their threats by email 4 or 5 times a day because they hold the docs 
hostage. I couldn't figure out how to run it w/o the docs, so I nuked it 
and wrote a procmail script to send their crap to /dev/null. Much more 
peacefull inbox now. :)

PM me if you want to trade war stories. I've BTDT quite a few times.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#203093

On Thursday 06 December 2018 19:11:03 Yves wrote:

> i suggest you to crack windows 10 and dowload autodesk autocad trial
> 30 day and then crack it too its pretty much an easy thing to do for
> everybody. Sometime free sofware just dont have it you have to hack
> it.
>
Thanks, but no windows allowed on the premises. an all linux site IOW.

And if push comes to shove, I can code this up in gcode and carve it 
directly in the finished panel. Long before I've got both eyes working 
again. Cataract fixings in progress. At 84, I can claim I've lived 
Faust, but I haven't died Jung. :)

Take care Yves.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#203088

On Thursday 06 December 2018 17:48:21 hdv@gmail wrote:

> On 12/6/18 11:31 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > The librecad in the debian repos for wheezy is nearly a decade old,
> > v-1.02. There are V2-* stuff that still runs on QT4 some of which is
> > already installed.
> >
> > Is there a repo where I can source a newer version than 1.02 without
> > destroying my system?
> >
> > 1.02 is so old the u-tube tuts are nearly worthless, yet it shows
> > promise of being able to lay out a boxes rear panel with 13
> > connections thru it. which is what I am trying to do.
> >
> > Or is there an even better 2d app for such?
> >
> > Thanks everybody.
>
> Hai Gene,
>
> Some time ago I tried LibreCAD as well and soon had to conclude there
> were too many issues with it to proceed. Meanwhile I've adopted QCAD
> (the Pro version) 

And that I'd assume is not in the repo's for wheezy.  I have looked at 
the earlier version that is in the repos and found it much more 
confusing, to the point I'd be doomed from the gitgo. And I'd still have 
to write the gcode to make it.

I have all the measurements written out, so if a decent libreCAD can't be 
had, I'll just write it in gcode and feed it direct to LinuxCNC. With 
measurements in hand I can probably have working code by the time I get 
a good lens in front of the left eye. I've had cataract surgery in both 
eyes now, and am basically waiting for a stable glaucoma pressure 
reading so a script for a lens won't have to be done 2 or 3 times before 
its long term usable.

Thanks for the observations about qcad.  Is the pro version offered 
commercially?

> and I am quite happy with it. I've been drawing some 
> fairly complex stuff with it (industrial machinery) and have been able
> to do almost everything I needed it to do. Mind you it is 2D only, but
> as far as I can remember the same was true of LibreCAD.
>
> I think it might not satisfy the DFSG, as there are proprietary
> modules in it, but most of the code is licensed under GPLv3.
>
> Grx HdV



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#203094

Have you looked at Freecad and Solvespace?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#203096

On Thursday 06 December 2018 20:41:43 John Hasler wrote:

> Have you looked at Freecad and Solvespace?

Freecad I have, a bit too complex for me.

Solvespace, googling now, downloaded, will take a look.

Thanks for the hint.

Take Care John Hasler

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#203097

Gene writes:
> Solvespace, googling now, downloaded, will take a look.

No  need to download.  It's in Debian.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#203100

On Thursday 06 December 2018 21:24:30 John Hasler wrote:

> Gene writes:
> > Solvespace, googling now, downloaded, will take a look.
>
> No  need to download.  It's in Debian.

Apparently not for wheezy. Nor for jessie on armhf. I'vr got a stretch on 
arm64 I'll check. But I haven't logged in from the last reboot, so I've 
no ssh path to it. Damn the paranoia thats makeing remote work more and 
more difficult for the user.

Anyway, I don't show it in any repo I have access to.
Thanks John.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#203133

John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> writes:

> Gene writes:
>> Solvespace, googling now, downloaded, will take a look.
>
> No  need to download.  It's in Debian.

Note that he isn't likely to find anything remotely up to date in a
repository, as he's still on wheezy.

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#203135

Joe writes:
> ...he's still on wheezy.

That is easily fixed.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#203136

On Fri, Dec 07, 2018 at 01:15:44PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> Joe writes:
> > ...he's still on wheezy.
> 
> That is easily fixed.

You'd think that, unless you've read the last two years of this mailing
list.

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#203144

On Friday 07 December 2018 14:15:44 John Hasler wrote:

> Joe writes:
> > ...he's still on wheezy.
>
> That is easily fixed.

Not until an rtai patched kernel is available for the newer stuffs.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#203147

Joe writes:
> ...he's still on wheezy.

I wrote:
> That is easily fixed.

Gene writes:
> Not until an rtai patched kernel is available for the newer stuffs.

Why would you run your CAD software on your machine controller?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#203151

On Friday 07 December 2018 19:54:56 John Hasler wrote:

> Joe writes:
> > ...he's still on wheezy.
>
> I wrote:
> > That is easily fixed.
>
> Gene writes:
> > Not until an rtai patched kernel is available for the newer stuffs.
>
> Why would you run your CAD software on your machine controller?

Why not John? With 6 machines here running 32 bit wheezy, one running 
jessie on an R-PI-3B, and one running armbian stretch on a arm64, all 
but the arm64 actually running a machine or the card firmware updater, 
the only one w/o enough iron to run cad stuff is the pi.

This machine, with its comfy chair, can run anything installed on the 
other 6 machines via ssh -Y logins, and all are or can be mounted over 
an sshfs facility for moving files around. Samba/cifs has turned into a 
headache precisely because of all the windows crap that been 
incorporated in the last years since Andrew T. got a helper.

NFS, any version is at best a chain with broken links, whereas sshfs Just 
Works.

The machine that will carve the back panel is the best simulator ever for 
code that will be run on it, simply by turning off all motor power, I 
can run gcode on it, with the gui exported to this machine and its comfy 
chair. This allows me to exercise the code, making sure it does exactly 
what I had in mind, without carving up a hundred bucks worth of raw 
material and putting more wear on a cutting tool.

alu is the hardest stuff to cut in terms of tool wear there is, only 
partially mitigated by a mister directed fog of sealing oil directed at 
the back of the cutting tool so the alu is sealed away from the air, 
majorly sealing the just cut surface.

99% of the heat you get from machining alu is not the cutting tool 
friction, but the burning of the alu as it forms a new layer of alu 
oxide in the thousandth of a second after the passing cutting edge of 
the tool has exposed the alu to the airborn oxygen. That alox layer is 
the 2nd hardest substance we have, 2nd to diamond, and asking the tool 
to cut thru it with every passing cutting edge is pure hell even on 
silicon carbide tooling. At $10 to $50 a tool.

CAD/CAM may be able to do it faster, but they do not yield editable 
gcode. This file I am working with, if exported as gcode from freecad, 
would be 5 to 20 megabytes because the cad/cam programs have no clue 
about the use of loops and conditionals. I am doing all this, with one 
hole of unk size to cut yet, with 199 LOC. 50+ is comments, keeping 
track of what I'm doing.  And I can fix it with the same editor I used 
to write it. geany.

Biggest problem ATM is I'm one eyed, haven't let the left eye settle long 
enough after the surgery Tuesday to be able to write a prescription and 
get the correct lens in the frame, so its empty on that side. Since I'm 
partial to hard coated Transitions lenses (special order, takes 7 to 9 
days in this neck of the woods), that will be 2 more weeks till I've got 
two medium good eyes again.

Other than that, whats not to like, John?

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#203155

Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> writes:

> On Friday 07 December 2018 19:54:56 John Hasler wrote:
>
>> Joe writes:
>> > ...he's still on wheezy.
>>
>> I wrote:
>> > That is easily fixed.
>>
>> Gene writes:
>> > Not until an rtai patched kernel is available for the newer stuffs.
>>
>> Why would you run your CAD software on your machine controller?
>
> Why not John? With 6 machines here running 32 bit wheezy, one running 
> jessie on an R-PI-3B, and one running armbian stretch on a arm64, all 
> but the arm64 actually running a machine or the card firmware updater, 
> the only one w/o enough iron to run cad stuff is the pi.
>
> This machine, with its comfy chair, can run anything installed on the 
> other 6 machines via ssh -Y logins, and all are or can be mounted over 
> an sshfs facility for moving files around. Samba/cifs has turned into a 
> headache precisely because of all the windows crap that been 
> incorporated in the last years since Andrew T. got a helper.
>
> NFS, any version is at best a chain with broken links, whereas sshfs Just 
> Works.
>
> The machine that will carve the back panel is the best simulator ever for 
> code that will be run on it, simply by turning off all motor power, I 
> can run gcode on it, with the gui exported to this machine and its comfy 
> chair. This allows me to exercise the code, making sure it does exactly 
> what I had in mind, without carving up a hundred bucks worth of raw 
> material and putting more wear on a cutting tool.
>
> alu is the hardest stuff to cut in terms of tool wear there is, only 
> partially mitigated by a mister directed fog of sealing oil directed at 
> the back of the cutting tool so the alu is sealed away from the air, 
> majorly sealing the just cut surface.
>
> 99% of the heat you get from machining alu is not the cutting tool 
> friction, but the burning of the alu as it forms a new layer of alu 
> oxide in the thousandth of a second after the passing cutting edge of 
> the tool has exposed the alu to the airborn oxygen. That alox layer is 
> the 2nd hardest substance we have, 2nd to diamond, and asking the tool 
> to cut thru it with every passing cutting edge is pure hell even on 
> silicon carbide tooling. At $10 to $50 a tool.
>
> CAD/CAM may be able to do it faster, but they do not yield editable 
> gcode. This file I am working with, if exported as gcode from freecad, 
> would be 5 to 20 megabytes because the cad/cam programs have no clue 
> about the use of loops and conditionals. I am doing all this, with one 
> hole of unk size to cut yet, with 199 LOC. 50+ is comments, keeping 
> track of what I'm doing.  And I can fix it with the same editor I used 
> to write it. geany.
>
> Biggest problem ATM is I'm one eyed, haven't let the left eye settle long 
> enough after the surgery Tuesday to be able to write a prescription and 
> get the correct lens in the frame, so its empty on that side. Since I'm 
> partial to hard coated Transitions lenses (special order, takes 7 to 9 
> days in this neck of the woods), that will be 2 more weeks till I've got 
> two medium good eyes again.
>
> Other than that, whats not to like, John?

First, because if you *really* need real time response, you shouldn't be
running anything else that might be computationally intensive.  I'm
happy to believe the developers of RTAI are competent, even excellent,
programmers.  All the same, if I want real time levels of predictable
response I don't want to put anything that might decide to be
computationally intensive on the same machine.

Second, because you're forcing yourself to look for workarounds due to
the decision to use an obsolete (as in, not even in LTS since last May)
distribution.  As we've seen in this thread.

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#203156

On Friday 07 December 2018 22:56:03 Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

> Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> writes:
> > On Friday 07 December 2018 19:54:56 John Hasler wrote:
> >> Joe writes:
> >> > ...he's still on wheezy.
> >>
> >> I wrote:
> >> > That is easily fixed.
> >>
> >> Gene writes:
> >> > Not until an rtai patched kernel is available for the newer
> >> > stuffs.
> >>
> >> Why would you run your CAD software on your machine controller?
> >
> > Why not John? With 6 machines here running 32 bit wheezy, one
> > running jessie on an R-PI-3B, and one running armbian stretch on a
> > arm64, all but the arm64 actually running a machine or the card
> > firmware updater, the only one w/o enough iron to run cad stuff is
> > the pi.
> >
> > This machine, with its comfy chair, can run anything installed on
> > the other 6 machines via ssh -Y logins, and all are or can be
> > mounted over an sshfs facility for moving files around. Samba/cifs
> > has turned into a headache precisely because of all the windows crap
> > that been incorporated in the last years since Andrew T. got a
> > helper.
> >
> > NFS, any version is at best a chain with broken links, whereas sshfs
> > Just Works.
> >
> > The machine that will carve the back panel is the best simulator
> > ever for code that will be run on it, simply by turning off all
> > motor power, I can run gcode on it, with the gui exported to this
> > machine and its comfy chair. This allows me to exercise the code,
> > making sure it does exactly what I had in mind, without carving up a
> > hundred bucks worth of raw material and putting more wear on a
> > cutting tool.
> >
> > alu is the hardest stuff to cut in terms of tool wear there is, only
> > partially mitigated by a mister directed fog of sealing oil directed
> > at the back of the cutting tool so the alu is sealed away from the
> > air, majorly sealing the just cut surface.
> >
> > 99% of the heat you get from machining alu is not the cutting tool
> > friction, but the burning of the alu as it forms a new layer of alu
> > oxide in the thousandth of a second after the passing cutting edge
> > of the tool has exposed the alu to the airborn oxygen. That alox
> > layer is the 2nd hardest substance we have, 2nd to diamond, and
> > asking the tool to cut thru it with every passing cutting edge is
> > pure hell even on silicon carbide tooling. At $10 to $50 a tool.
> >
> > CAD/CAM may be able to do it faster, but they do not yield editable
> > gcode. This file I am working with, if exported as gcode from
> > freecad, would be 5 to 20 megabytes because the cad/cam programs
> > have no clue about the use of loops and conditionals. I am doing all
> > this, with one hole of unk size to cut yet, with 199 LOC. 50+ is
> > comments, keeping track of what I'm doing.  And I can fix it with
> > the same editor I used to write it. geany.
> >
> > Biggest problem ATM is I'm one eyed, haven't let the left eye settle
> > long enough after the surgery Tuesday to be able to write a
> > prescription and get the correct lens in the frame, so its empty on
> > that side. Since I'm partial to hard coated Transitions lenses
> > (special order, takes 7 to 9 days in this neck of the woods), that
> > will be 2 more weeks till I've got two medium good eyes again.
> >
> > Other than that, whats not to like, John?
>
> First, because if you *really* need real time response, you shouldn't
> be running anything else that might be computationally intensive.  I'm
> happy to believe the developers of RTAI are competent, even excellent,
> programmers.  All the same, if I want real time levels of predictable
> response I don't want to put anything that might decide to be
> computationally intensive on the same machine.
>
> Second, because you're forcing yourself to look for workarounds due to
> the decision to use an obsolete (as in, not even in LTS since last
> May) distribution.  As we've seen in this thread.

LinuxCNC depends on a low latency IRQ response. No 64 bit kernel comes 
even close to being useable as the context switch itself can cost 20 
microseconds. When the same hardware can show 3 microseconds running an 
rtai patched 32 bit kernel, on a slow atom powered mobo, there is zero 
reason to upgrade. I am behind a router running dd-wrt. No one gets in. 
So I am not overy worried about security.

To compare that to this 64 bit phenon running 150% faster that the atom 
board with a 32 bit install but not a realtime kernel, runs that same 
latency-test, and comes up with a worst case lag of 5 milliseconds for 
what is supposed to be a 25 u-second loop. even the simulator is visibly 
slow. Yet its running kmail as I type this on another workspace with no 
visible lag.

And I have no reason to run a heavy app while its carving metal unless I 
am chasing down a fix, in which case there may be firefox and an IRC 
client, running too, but I don't expect miracles though.

When you can upgrade me to stretch or beyond on all those machines w/o 
killing the main job I built or bought those machines to do, I'll be 
happy to upgrade. Until that time I'll ignore the snide remarks from 
those who obviously do not understand the problem the upgrade will 
bring.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#203165

Gene writes:
> LinuxCNC depends on a low latency IRQ response.
> ...

We understand all that, and I understand and agree with the "If it aint
broke don't fix it" philosophy that leads to running "obsolete"
computers and software in machine controls.  What does it have to do
with the machine you run your CAD software on?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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