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Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using sid

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  Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using sid rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-12-08 04:40 +0100
    Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program  using sid Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-12-08 08:50 +0100
    Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using  sid "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2018-12-08 09:00 +0100
      Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using sid rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-12-08 15:30 +0100
        Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program  using sid Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-12-08 16:20 +0100
        Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using  sid "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2018-12-08 16:30 +0100
        Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using  sid Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2018-12-08 17:30 +0100
    Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using  sid David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-12-08 19:40 +0100

#203153 — Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using sid

This is sort of a continuation of the thread started with the post 
"Recommendation for Virtual Machine and Instructions to set it up?" 

(https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/12/msg00144.html)

Aside: the programmer has been able to send me a binary which does work on my 
Jessie system, but, never-the-less, I plan to start experimenting with either 
a chroot or VM environment to run either sid or a recent Ubuntu release so 
that I can compile / build the binary myself.

The machine I want to do this on does not have any unallocated partitions / 
disk space.  There are two partitions, currently used for other purposes, that 
I could free up to use for the chroot (or, later, VM) by moving files around.

The Question:

One of the partitions I could free up is 16 GB, the other is 54 GB -- I'd 
rather free up and use the smaller one, but I'm wondering if that will be big 
enough?

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#203157 — Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using sid

Hi,

On Fri, Dec 07, 2018 at 10:36:43PM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> One of the partitions I could free up is 16 GB, the other is 54 GB -- I'd 
> rather free up and use the smaller one, but I'm wondering if that will be big 
> enough?

I would be amazed if 16GB wasn't enough. All you'll be doing is the
equivalent of a very minimal Debian install. Of course it depends
how much space the actual application that you want to run needs.
schroot will make things a bit simpler for you:

    https://wiki.debian.org/Schroot

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#203158 — Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using sid

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On 08.12.2018 8:36, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> This is sort of a continuation of the thread started with the post 
> "Recommendation for Virtual Machine and Instructions to set it up?" 
>
> (https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/12/msg00144.html)
>
> Aside: the programmer has been able to send me a binary which does work on my 
> Jessie system, but, never-the-less, I plan to start experimenting with either 
> a chroot or VM environment to run either sid or a recent Ubuntu release so 
> that I can compile / build the binary myself.
>
> The machine I want to do this on does not have any unallocated partitions / 
> disk space.  There are two partitions, currently used for other purposes, that 
> I could free up to use for the chroot (or, later, VM) by moving files around.
>
> The Question:
>
> One of the partitions I could free up is 16 GB, the other is 54 GB -- I'd 
> rather free up and use the smaller one, but I'm wondering if that will be big 
> enough?
>
You are over-complicating things. You can build chroot in just a
separate folder using debootstrap.
chroot is not fully fledged VM in meaning of hardware abstraction. It is
just a way to make files (executables, libraries, settings) inside a
folder "/opt/chroot-sid-amd64/" *believe* they are in "/".
So if you change some settings inside chroot "/etc/" they will actually
be changed in "/opt/chroot-sid-amd64/etc/". This is why chroot is
convenient to try things, install tons of -dev and dependency packages
without cluttering or breaking actual working system.
I recommend to read manuals for "debootstrap" and also "schroot" can
make creating multiple chroot-ed environments more straight forward,
eliminating the need to setup some settings manually, such as bind mount
system partitions like "/sys" into chroot.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ 

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#203167

On Saturday, December 08, 2018 02:59:15 AM Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> You are over-complicating things. 

I can believe that ;-)

> You can build chroot in just a
> separate folder using debootstrap.

Ahh, ok, then that is almost surely what I'll try at least at first.

Looking ahead, if I later want to experiment with real VMs, do they need to be 
on separate partitions or can they also just be in separate folders?

And if they can be in separate folders, would there be any reason to consider 
putting them on separate partitions?

> chroot is not fully fledged VM in meaning of hardware abstraction. It is
> just a way to make files (executables, libraries, settings) inside a
> folder "/opt/chroot-sid-amd64/" *believe* they are in "/".
> So if you change some settings inside chroot "/etc/" they will actually
> be changed in "/opt/chroot-sid-amd64/etc/". This is why chroot is
> convenient to try things, install tons of -dev and dependency packages
> without cluttering or breaking actual working system.
> I recommend to read manuals for "debootstrap" and also "schroot" can
> make creating multiple chroot-ed environments more straight forward,
> eliminating the need to setup some settings manually, such as bind mount
> system partitions like "/sys" into chroot.

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#203169 — Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using sid

On Sat, Dec 08, 2018 at 09:21:33AM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Looking ahead, if I later want to experiment with real VMs, do they need to be 
> on separate partitions or can they also just be in separate folders?
> 
Every VM solution that I can think of supports using disk image files.
In that case you would select a directory where you would place the disk
image files.  They also support using partitions for each VM.  However,
in my experience the best approach for using partitions is actually to
use LVM and create one or more logical volumes for each VM.  That is
what I do for my production systems.

> And if they can be in separate folders, would there be any reason to consider 
> putting them on separate partitions?
> 

In my experience, performance tends to be better with partitions than
with disk images.  However, with solid state disks, the performance
benefit is less noticeable.  So, it comes down which one is easier for
you to manage given how you manage the rest of your systems.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#203170 — Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using sid

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On 08.12.2018 19:21, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> Ahh, ok, then that is almost surely what I'll try at least at first.
>
> Looking ahead, if I later want to experiment with real VMs, do they need to be 
> on separate partitions or can they also just be in separate folders?
>
> And if they can be in separate folders, would there be any reason to consider 
> putting them on separate partitions?
>
When you will be creating a real VM, let's assume by using KVM and GUI
program called "virt-manager", among the other settings, you will be
offered to choose a location folder and a file that will be used as
virtualized hard drive inside VM. Size of that file is also
customizable, so for an example you can create 4 such files 10Gb in size
each and inside running VM they will be seen as 4 separate physical 10Gb
HDDs.
Any real VM is basically consists of a hardware configuration profile
and a virtual hard drive image(s).

I can think of a few reasons when separating virtual hard drive images
on different physical disks could be useful, but in case of simple
experimentation with VMs there is no reason to do that. You can even
pile them up in one folder with different names and use them as is, as
long as you have free space on physical partition for them to expand.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ 

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#203172 — Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using sid

On 12/8/18 9:21 AM, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 08, 2018 02:59:15 AM Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
>> You are over-complicating things.
> I can believe that ;-)
>
>> You can build chroot in just a
>> separate folder using debootstrap.
> Ahh, ok, then that is almost surely what I'll try at least at first.
>
> Looking ahead, if I later want to experiment with real VMs, do they need to be
> on separate partitions or can they also just be in separate folders?
>
> And if they can be in separate folders, would there be any reason to consider
> putting them on separate partitions?
>
>> chroot is not fully fledged VM in meaning of hardware abstraction. It is
>> just a way to make files (executables, libraries, settings) inside a
>> folder "/opt/chroot-sid-amd64/" *believe* they are in "/".
>> So if you change some settings inside chroot "/etc/" they will actually
>> be changed in "/opt/chroot-sid-amd64/etc/". This is why chroot is
>> convenient to try things, install tons of -dev and dependency packages
>> without cluttering or breaking actual working system.
>> I recommend to read manuals for "debootstrap" and also "schroot" can
>> make creating multiple chroot-ed environments more straight forward,
>> eliminating the need to setup some settings manually, such as bind mount
>> system partitions like "/sys" into chroot.
Most userland VMs are just (collections of) files, neither folders
nor partitions.

-- 
Carl Fink          carl@finknetwork.com
Thinking and logic and stuff at Reasonably Literate
http://reasonablyliterate.com

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#203175 — Re: Setting up a chroot on a Jessie system to compile a program using sid

On 12/7/18 7:36 PM, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> This is sort of a continuation of the thread started with the post
> "Recommendation for Virtual Machine and Instructions to set it up?"
> 
> (https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/12/msg00144.html)
> 
> Aside: the programmer has been able to send me a binary which does work on my
> Jessie system, but, never-the-less, I plan to start experimenting with either
> a chroot or VM environment to run either sid or a recent Ubuntu release so
> that I can compile / build the binary myself.
> 
> The machine I want to do this on does not have any unallocated partitions /
> disk space.  There are two partitions, currently used for other purposes, that
> I could free up to use for the chroot (or, later, VM) by moving files around.
> 
> The Question:
> 
> One of the partitions I could free up is 16 GB, the other is 54 GB -- I'd
> rather free up and use the smaller one, but I'm wondering if that will be big
> enough?

To obtain consistent results when compiling software by multiple people 
on multiple computers with multiple operating system distributions/ 
flavors/ variants, I would suggest starting with a platform 
configuration management tool:

https://www.upguard.com/articles/the-7-configuration-management-tools-you-need-to-know


And then put your build system on top of that.


I would suggest putting your development jails, containers, VM's, 
bootable images, whatever, on a separate disk.


David

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