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[OT?] home partition vs. home directory

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  [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 18:20 +0100
    Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-11-30 18:30 +0100
      Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 21:50 +0100
        Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2018-11-30 22:40 +0100
          Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-12-01 03:50 +0100
            Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2018-12-01 21:10 +0100
        Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 02:40 +0100
          Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-12-01 02:50 +0100
            Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 03:30 +0100
              Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-12-01 04:20 +0100
              Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-12-01 09:00 +0100
                Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-12-01 16:10 +0100
      Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-12-01 03:20 +0100
      Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-12-02 21:10 +0100
    Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2018-11-30 18:30 +0100
      Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 10:30 +0100
        Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-12-01 15:20 +0100
    Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Michael Thompson <michaelw.thompson@icloud.com> - 2018-11-30 18:40 +0100
      Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-11-30 20:00 +0100
        Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-11-30 20:20 +0100
          Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-11-30 22:30 +0100
        Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-01 01:30 +0100
          Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-12-01 03:40 +0100
          Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-12-01 16:10 +0100
            Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-12-01 17:30 +0100
            Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-12-01 18:30 +0100
              Re: [OT?] home partition vs. home directory Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-12-01 21:10 +0100

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#202924

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 02:14:09PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
>Michael Stone composed on 2018-11-30 13:58 (UTC-0500):
>
>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 05:23:09PM +0000, Michael Thompson wrote:
>
>>>Because if your root partition fails, you can reinstall and all your files are safe on their own partition...
>
>> ...leaving open the question of how likely that scenario is.
>
>For hard failure, true, but there also exists soft failure, of multiple forms and causes,
>particularly among those who would pose the original question, more particularly eagerly testing
>the robustness of the installation.

Wow, that was an unnecessarily long and oblique way to say sometimes 
people screw up. To which I'll counter that the ways people can screw up 
that kill one partition and not the rest of the system are so limited 
and unlikely that it's not worth the trouble. Far more likely is that 
either rm -rf kills everything, or a disk fails. Instead of worrying 
about partitioning schemes that mitigate exotic failure modes, time is 
generally better spent figuring out how to handle backups.

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#202927

On Friday 30 November 2018 13:58:52 Michael Stone wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 05:23:09PM +0000, Michael Thompson wrote:
> >Because if your root partition fails, you can reinstall and all your
> > files are safe on their own partition...
>
> ...leaving open the question of how likely that scenario is.
Not bloody likely Michael, if the disk is toast, so are all its 
partitions as a general rule. If you are going to put you /home on a 
separate partition, put it on a different disk.

Unfortunately that has NOT been acceptable to the installer for most of a 
decade now.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#202932

Hi,

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 07:26:33PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> If you are going to put you /home on a separate partition, put it
> on a different disk.
> 
> Unfortunately that has NOT been acceptable to the installer for most of a 
> decade now.

Strange, I've been putting /home on a different disk (actually an
LVM LV), from the installer, for at least 10 years now, I think you
might be mistaken here.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#202940

On Friday, November 30, 2018 07:26:33 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 30 November 2018 13:58:52 Michael Stone wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 05:23:09PM +0000, Michael Thompson wrote:
> > >Because if your root partition fails, you can reinstall and all your
> > >
> > > files are safe on their own partition...
> > 
> > ...leaving open the question of how likely that scenario is.
> 
> Not bloody likely Michael, if the disk is toast, so are all its
> partitions as a general rule. If you are going to put you /home on a
> separate partition, put it on a different disk.
> 
> Unfortunately that has NOT been acceptable to the installer for most of a
> decade now.

Hmm, it hasn't been 10 years since I installed Jessie, yet I have my top level 
directories (e.g., /abc, which hold my data directories (e.g., 
/abc/Documents)) on a separate disk, and I'm rather certain I did that with 
the installer -- maybe I used a different version of the installer (or maybe 
I'm mis-remembering -- maybe I created those partitions (on a separate disk) 
after the installation.

But, I've thought about it for a few moments, and I'm more certain I did that 
with the installer...

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#202942

On Sat 01 Dec 2018 at 10:02:29 (-0500), rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, November 30, 2018 07:26:33 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 30 November 2018 13:58:52 Michael Stone wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 05:23:09PM +0000, Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > >Because if your root partition fails, you can reinstall and all your
> > > >
> > > > files are safe on their own partition...
> > > 
> > > ...leaving open the question of how likely that scenario is.
> > 
> > Not bloody likely Michael, if the disk is toast, so are all its
> > partitions as a general rule. If you are going to put you /home on a
> > separate partition, put it on a different disk.
> > 
> > Unfortunately that has NOT been acceptable to the installer for most of a
> > decade now.
> 
> Hmm, it hasn't been 10 years since I installed Jessie, yet I have my top level 
> directories (e.g., /abc, which hold my data directories (e.g., 
> /abc/Documents)) on a separate disk, and I'm rather certain I did that with 
> the installer -- maybe I used a different version of the installer (or maybe 
> I'm mis-remembering -- maybe I created those partitions (on a separate disk) 
> after the installation.
> 
> But, I've thought about it for a few moments, and I'm more certain I did that 
> with the installer...

Gene's relationship with the Debian installer has been what can only
be described as "interesting". Take, for example,
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00128.html
which is the part of a series of threads from early that year.

As someone who hasn't installed Debian onto anything other than
preexisting partitions since the last century, I can't understand
that thread. Likewise, having installed Debian onto partitions across
multiple disks, I have to disagree with Gene again.

But on the OT topic, I don't put /home on a separate disk to
ameliorate hardware failures, but because the original (SATA) disks
in these (loaned, 2006) machines are, as always, small by modern
standards (80GB), so I build the duplicate systems on them, and put
/home on one of my own (2006–2008) 500GB disks. It will also make
it more convenient if and when the machines are recalled.

Cheers,
David.

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#202944

On Saturday 01 December 2018 10:02:29 rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

> On Friday, November 30, 2018 07:26:33 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 30 November 2018 13:58:52 Michael Stone wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 05:23:09PM +0000, Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > >Because if your root partition fails, you can reinstall and all
> > > > your
> > > >
> > > > files are safe on their own partition...
> > >
> > > ...leaving open the question of how likely that scenario is.
> >
> > Not bloody likely Michael, if the disk is toast, so are all its
> > partitions as a general rule. If you are going to put you /home on a
> > separate partition, put it on a different disk.
> >
> > Unfortunately that has NOT been acceptable to the installer for most
> > of a decade now.
>
> Hmm, it hasn't been 10 years since I installed Jessie, yet I have my
> top level directories (e.g., /abc, which hold my data directories
> (e.g., /abc/Documents)) on a separate disk, and I'm rather certain I
> did that with the installer -- maybe I used a different version of the
> installer (or maybe I'm mis-remembering -- maybe I created those
> partitions (on a separate disk) after the installation.
>
> But, I've thought about it for a few moments, and I'm more certain I
> did that with the installer...

Maybe it has a mode that allows it, but when I last made an install 
useing a distro installer, it wasn't having any of that. Would not 
proceed past the disk partitioner point. So I got in the car and drove 
the 25 miles to my nearest Staples and bought a disk big enough and then 
installed it on the new disk, then put the old ones back in and used mc 
to copy my data to the new disk. I think that install was ubuntu hardy 
heron. Every other install since on x86 hardware has been from a 32 bit 
i386 iso compiled by the linuxcnc folks which is currently still wheezy 
based, and 32 bit because the 64 bit kernels IRQ latency is horrible due 
to its much larger stack frame that has to be swapped out for a context 
switch.

The use of the kernel argument called isolcpus has helped extend the life 
of these wheezy based installs but apparently does not work on the arm's 
so we are doomed to use an interface card that offloads the realtime 
stuff into an fpga card specifically programmed for the job. That adds 
around $200 to the cost of building a machine because the fpga stuff is 
3.3 volts max, and needs a lot of buffering to absorb the noises around 
one of these machines that would kill an fpga before the first motor to 
start has moved 5 shaft degrees. I've killed 3 of the $70 cards making a 
pi run a lathe before I was convinced to buy the 3 buffer cards at $45 
each that this particular interface card needed for protection. Zero 
problems with noise since.  But thats a $39 rpi3b, and $200 in the 
interface. 

Now I'm in the process of adding a smart breakout card to my 4 axis mill, 
because a $2 voltage regulator failed shorted, putting 35 volts on a 5 
volt breakout board with clean up the exploded epoxy results. 

So I'm rebuilding that with a 5x more expensive $120 card that will run 
on 12 or more volts, and also give me enough i/o to build a tool changer 
and possibly a workpiece pallet changer if I can get them made. But with 
anything I need. like connectors or cable being a buy it on ebay thing, 
it will take another month to put the lib back on the box, its done and 
the machine works again.  Keeps me out of the bars don'cha know. ;-)

And thats life, no one makes either of those items for any machine at 
less than 5 to 10 thousand dollars due to the custom labor involved. And 
do it all on a slow to us, 1 kilohertz control thread.  With those, it 
becomes a write the g-code once, run many times for production, so you 
can load the  machine and turn out the lights and have a bin of finished 
parts when you turn the lights on the next morning.

Thank you, rhkramer

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#202949

On Sat 01 Dec 2018 at 12:22:09 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 01 December 2018 10:02:29 rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > On Friday, November 30, 2018 07:26:33 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Friday 30 November 2018 13:58:52 Michael Stone wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 05:23:09PM +0000, Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > > >Because if your root partition fails, you can reinstall and all
> > > > > your
> > > > >
> > > > > files are safe on their own partition...
> > > >
> > > > ...leaving open the question of how likely that scenario is.
> > >
> > > Not bloody likely Michael, if the disk is toast, so are all its
> > > partitions as a general rule. If you are going to put you /home on a
> > > separate partition, put it on a different disk.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately that has NOT been acceptable to the installer for most
> > > of a decade now.
> >
> > Hmm, it hasn't been 10 years since I installed Jessie, yet I have my
> > top level directories (e.g., /abc, which hold my data directories
> > (e.g., /abc/Documents)) on a separate disk, and I'm rather certain I
> > did that with the installer -- maybe I used a different version of the
> > installer (or maybe I'm mis-remembering -- maybe I created those
> > partitions (on a separate disk) after the installation.
> >
> > But, I've thought about it for a few moments, and I'm more certain I
> > did that with the installer...
> 
> Maybe it has a mode that allows it, but when I last made an install 
> useing a distro installer, it wasn't having any of that. Would not 
> proceed past the disk partitioner point. So I got in the car and drove 
> the 25 miles to my nearest Staples and bought a disk big enough and then 
> installed it on the new disk, then put the old ones back in and used mc 
> to copy my data to the new disk. I think that install was ubuntu hardy 
> heron. Every other install since on x86 hardware has been from a 32 bit 
> i386 iso compiled by the linuxcnc folks which is currently still wheezy 
> based, and 32 bit because the 64 bit kernels IRQ latency is horrible due 
> to its much larger stack frame that has to be swapped out for a context 
> switch.

I love this type of response; one can well imagine the situation. A
drive at high speed. The Highway Patrol sirens blaring. Staples put
on Red Alert to service an incoming customer. Helicopters surveying
the road ahead and beaming the car's progress on local TV. Tweets
from the White House encouraging the car driver not to buy anything
made in China.

"My fault?" says the customer, "not me, guv - it was Ubuntu that did
it".

Don't admit mistakes. Always go down fighting. :)

[...] 

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