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root on ZFS

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  root on ZFS Mimiko <vbvbrj@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 10:50 +0200
    Re: root on ZFS <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-11 11:10 +0200
      Re: root on ZFS Mimiko <vbvbrj@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 14:20 +0200
        Re: root on ZFS <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-11 14:50 +0200
        Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-11 15:00 +0200
      Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-11 14:50 +0200
        ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-11 20:10 +0200
          Re: ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-11 20:30 +0200
          Re: ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-11 20:40 +0200
          Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 01:40 +0200
            Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 05:40 +0200
              Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Mimiko <vbvbrj@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 07:50 +0200
              Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-12 11:20 +0200
                Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2018-09-12 11:40 +0200
                  Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-12 21:00 +0200
                    Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2018-09-12 21:40 +0200
                    Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-12 23:00 +0200
                    Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-13 00:00 +0200
                      Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-14 05:30 +0200
                    Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2018-09-14 06:10 +0200
                      Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-09-14 14:40 +0200
                        Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-14 14:50 +0200
                          Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-14 17:10 +0200
                            Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 18:30 +0200
                            Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-14 20:00 +0200
                              Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-15 00:50 +0200
                                Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-15 08:50 +0200
                                  Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-15 18:00 +0200
                                    Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-16 00:00 +0200
                                      Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-09-16 00:50 +0200
                                        Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-17 20:10 +0200
                                          Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 20:20 +0200
                                            Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-18 20:10 +0200
                                          Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-09-19 05:00 +0200
                                            Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-19 17:50 +0200
                                            Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Igor Cicimov <icicimov@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 01:10 +0200
                                              Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 18:20 +0200
                                                Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 19:20 +0200
                                                  Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 20:20 +0200
                                                  Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-27 10:00 +0200
                                                    Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-27 17:40 +0200
                                                      Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Igor Cicimov <icicimov@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 13:10 +0200
                                                    Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-30 03:20 +0200
                                                      Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-30 08:50 +0200
                                                        Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-30 12:10 +0200
                                                          Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-30 23:40 +0200
                                      Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 11:20 +0200
                        Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-09-14 15:10 +0200
                          Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-14 20:50 +0200
                          Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-15 00:10 +0200
                            Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-15 09:20 +0200
                              Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-16 16:40 +0200
                              Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-10 00:00 +0200
                          Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2018-09-15 01:30 +0200
                        Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 15:20 +0200
                          Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-09-14 16:50 +0200
                          Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-09-14 19:30 +0200
                            Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-14 22:20 +0200
                              Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2018-09-15 08:50 +0200
                                Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-15 10:10 +0200
                                  The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-09-15 10:20 +0200
                                    Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-15 10:50 +0200
                                      Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-09-15 11:30 +0200
                                        Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-16 16:50 +0200
                                          Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 19:00 +0200
                                            Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-09-18 21:10 +0200
                                    Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> - 2018-09-15 12:50 +0200
                                    Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> - 2018-09-15 12:50 +0200
                                      Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> - 2018-09-15 13:00 +0200
                                        Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry etienne.mollier@mailoo.org - 2018-09-16 12:20 +0200
                        Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 11:10 +0200
                      Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-09-14 14:50 +0200
                  Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 06:40 +0200
                    Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-14 17:40 +0200
                      Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-14 21:00 +0200
                  Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 11:10 +0200
            Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 08:10 +0200
              Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 08:20 +0200
                Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 09:00 +0200
                Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-09-12 11:20 +0200
                  Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 12:30 +0200
                Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-12 15:50 +0200
                  Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 17:40 +0200
                    Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-09-12 18:00 +0200
                    Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 18:30 +0200
          Re: ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-12 09:50 +0200
        Re: root on ZFS Mimiko <vbvbrj@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 08:00 +0200
    Re: root on ZFS David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-09-12 02:40 +0200
      Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-12 16:00 +0200
        Re: root on ZFS David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-09-13 04:30 +0200
          Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mattcrews@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-13 05:00 +0200

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#200683 — Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ???

Andrew McGlashan wrote:

> The biggest weakness with the Dropbear setup is that the initramfs is
> stored on an unencrypted partition (no matter which file system is
> used).  That means that someone with physical access can rebuild the
> initramfs and include their own key as well as other stuff to
> compromise the security of the server.
> 
Exactly what I was saying

> Aside from the fact that the IME is suspect, it would be great if grub
> can be, somehow, given a method that allows for full disk encryption
> which will include everything in /boot -- especially initramfs.
> 

but it would also mean that it should be accessible over the internet,
because I do not see any other way to reach the server and decrypt.


> Even so, then grub might have another attack vector of itself.  But it
> would at least allow for encrypted /boot ...

Well but again we shift from the boot partition to grub - hense if
probability that one has physical access to the server can be ignored,
dropbear is still practical solution.

regards

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#200710 — Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ???

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 1:32 AM deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

> Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>
> > The biggest weakness with the Dropbear setup is that the initramfs is
> > stored on an unencrypted partition (no matter which file system is
> > used).  That means that someone with physical access can rebuild the
> > initramfs and include their own key as well as other stuff to
> > compromise the security of the server.
> >
> Exactly what I was saying
>
> > Aside from the fact that the IME is suspect, it would be great if grub
> > can be, somehow, given a method that allows for full disk encryption
> > which will include everything in /boot -- especially initramfs.
> >
>
> but it would also mean that it should be accessible over the internet,
> because I do not see any other way to reach the server and decrypt.
>
>
> > Even so, then grub might have another attack vector of itself.  But it
> > would at least allow for encrypted /boot ...
>
> Well but again we shift from the boot partition to grub - hense if
> probability that one has physical access to the server can be ignored,
> dropbear is still practical solution.
>
> regards
>

That's why the reverse scenario is better, you include a client SSH key in
the initramfs which you use to ssh to a remote server and download the
encryption key.

The way I see it an important part of all these remote storage methods,
apart from automation, is prevention and remediation. First it can limit
the resource access from only specific IP(s) so If someone heads off with
your encrypted disk your data will stay protected since the key can not be
retrieved from anywhere else but your IP. And second, although it seems
that you have just replaced one kind of plain text credentials (the
encryption key) with another one (ssh key or AWS IAM user credentials), you
can actually still protect yourself by revoking those credentials on the
remote server/storage side upon a security incident.

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#200765 — Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:54:26 +1000
Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:

...

> The biggest weakness with the Dropbear setup is that the initramfs is
> stored on an unencrypted partition (no matter which file system is
> used).  That means that someone with physical access can rebuild the
> initramfs and include their own key as well as other stuff to
> compromise the security of the server.
> 
> Aside from the fact that the IME is suspect, it would be great if grub
> can be, somehow, given a method that allows for full disk encryption
> which will include everything in /boot -- especially initramfs.

But grub itself and its configuration can't be encrypted, so an
attacker could still compromise that code / data. IIUC, your solution
basically just implies moving some of the logic currently in the
initramfs into grub.

One solution is to run grub from removable media, and preventing
attackers from getting physical access to it ...

Disclaimer: I'm no expert, and am just expressing my understanding of
the underlying unsolvable problem based on what I've read about it.

Celejar

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#200768 — Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ???

Celejar wrote:

> But grub itself and its configuration can't be encrypted, so an
> attacker could still compromise that code / data. IIUC, your solution
> basically just implies moving some of the logic currently in the
> initramfs into grub.
> 

Yes, this is the point I am making.

> One solution is to run grub from removable media, and preventing
> attackers from getting physical access to it ...
> 

But this does not apply for a server, where you do not have physical access,
however in this case it is also obvious that no one can easily access the
machine and alter anything on it, except it is stolen.

> Disclaimer: I'm no expert, and am just expressing my understanding of
> the underlying unsolvable problem based on what I've read about it.

so do I

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#200770 — Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ???

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Hi,

On 30/09/18 16:44, deloptes wrote:
> Celejar wrote:
> 
>> But grub itself and its configuration can't be encrypted, so an 
>> attacker could still compromise that code / data. IIUC, your
>> solution basically just implies moving some of the logic
>> currently in the initramfs into grub.
> 
> Yes, this is the point I am making.
> 
>> One solution is to run grub from removable media, and preventing 
>> attackers from getting physical access to it ...

You can sometimes do remote mounting in something like HP's iLO ....
you could mount a floppy or ISO image and boot it with the image only
being available from a client machine using iLo.  But it won't work
for machines without such capability.

Cheers
A.
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#200786 — Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:03:41 +1000
Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On 30/09/18 16:44, deloptes wrote:
> > Celejar wrote:
> > 
> >> But grub itself and its configuration can't be encrypted, so an 
> >> attacker could still compromise that code / data. IIUC, your
> >> solution basically just implies moving some of the logic
> >> currently in the initramfs into grub.
> > 
> > Yes, this is the point I am making.
> > 
> >> One solution is to run grub from removable media, and preventing 
> >> attackers from getting physical access to it ...
> 
> You can sometimes do remote mounting in something like HP's iLO ....
> you could mount a floppy or ISO image and boot it with the image only
> being available from a client machine using iLo.  But it won't work
> for machines without such capability.

I actually do the equivalent using Dell's iDrac - I configure it
(together with the machine's BIOS) to make the system console available
over ssh (using iDrac ssh credentials), and then use that console to
provide the credentials to unlock the system disk. IIUC, the security of
this is equivalent to your method.

Celejar

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#200628 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:52:01PM +0200, deloptes wrote:
>I also wish I knew how to get ssh into initrd and the whole networking, so
>that I could do it remotely when needed.

That's easy enough: install the dropbear package, reconfigure the keys /
authorized_keys files in /etc/initramfs-tools to trust whatever you need
and regenerate your initramfs.

When you SSH into the pre-boot environment, you get a shell and need to
write the decryption passphrase to /lib/cryptsetup/passfifo.

-- 

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

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#200128 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 08:37:45AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > So, make /boot a big larger, say couple GiBs, and set data=journalled
> 
> BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition
> tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole
> OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the
> original DEC Alphas?
> 

The /boot on the desktop I'm using right now is 150MB. 70 is
currently used.

The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two
versions of each.

Grub eats almost 10MB.

If you put all necessary drivers into the kernel rather than as
modules, and your system fits a particular set of criteria, you
can do without an initrd or initramfs entirely. So a really 
minimal but fully capable system could get away with 20 or 30 MB
of /boot space.

That said, even a really constrained system like a $35 Raspberry
Pi is likely to have 4 to 32 GB of storage available at boot
time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujitsu_Eagle

but you tell that to kids these days, and you might as well be
chasing them off your lawn.

-dsr-

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#200140 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

Le 14/09/2018 à 15:02, Dan Ritter a écrit :
> 
> If you put all necessary drivers into the kernel rather than as
> modules, and your system fits a particular set of criteria, you
> can do without an initrd or initramfs entirely.

*IF* it fits a particular set of criteria, including but probably not 
limited to the following :

The root filesystem is NOT
- identified by UUID or LABEL in the root= parameter
- in an LVM logical volume
- in a software RAID array using modern 1.x superblocks
- in a dm-crypt or LUKS encrypted device

The mass storage or network adapter used to access the root filesystem 
does NOT require to load an external firmware.

/usr is NOT on a separate filesystem (it can boot but but expect trouble)

Hibernation does NOT use uswsusp (userspace suspend).

I'm afraid these criteria exclude a lot of systems.

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#200148 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On Fri 14 Sep 2018 at 09:02:22 (-0400), Dan Ritter wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 08:37:45AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > > So, make /boot a big larger, say couple GiBs, and set data=journalled
> > 
> > BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition
> > tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole
> > OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the
> > original DEC Alphas?
> > 
> 
> The /boot on the desktop I'm using right now is 150MB. 70 is
> currently used.
> 
> The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two
> versions of each.

Wow. Why are my initrds only 5MB? I have MODULES=most in
/etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf.

> Grub eats almost 10MB.

It could be pruned: there's 4MB of localisation alone, and I'm not
sure why the unicode font (1MB) gets placed into both /boot/grub/
and /boot/grub/fonts/.

Cheers,
David.

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#200158 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

Le 15/09/2018 à 00:02, David Wright a écrit :
> On Fri 14 Sep 2018 at 09:02:22 (-0400), Dan Ritter wrote:
>>
>> The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two
>> versions of each.
> 
> Wow. Why are my initrds only 5MB? I have MODULES=most in
> /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf.

Weird. My initrds on i386 are arount 20 MB with MODULES=most. They 
include additional stuff for LVM, RAID and a few firmwares, but kernel 
modules are by far the biggest part.
What is your architecture ?

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#200201 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 09:12:54 +0200
Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> wrote:

> Le 15/09/2018 à 00:02, David Wright a écrit :
> > On Fri 14 Sep 2018 at 09:02:22 (-0400), Dan Ritter wrote:
> >>
> >> The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two
> >> versions of each.
> > 
> > Wow. Why are my initrds only 5MB? I have MODULES=most in
> > /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf.
> 
> Weird. My initrds on i386 are arount 20 MB with MODULES=most. They 
> include additional stuff for LVM, RAID and a few firmwares, but kernel 
> modules are by far the biggest part.
> What is your architecture ?

I'm not the OP, but on my fairly typical (I think?) Sid amd64 installation
(with MODULES=most, and / on luks), my initrds are 8.3M.

Celejar

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#201103 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On Sat 15 Sep 2018 at 09:12:54 (+0200), Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Le 15/09/2018 à 00:02, David Wright a écrit :
> > On Fri 14 Sep 2018 at 09:02:22 (-0400), Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > 
> > > The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two
> > > versions of each.
> > 
> > Wow. Why are my initrds only 5MB? I have MODULES=most in
> > /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf.
> 
> Weird. My initrds on i386 are arount 20 MB with MODULES=most. They
> include additional stuff for LVM, RAID and a few firmwares, but kernel
> modules are by far the biggest part.
> What is your architecture ?

I figured out what was going on: /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf
can of course be overridden by entries in /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/
and, indeed, there is a /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/driver-policy
lurking in there. The contents and timestamp indicate that the
installer put it there. So it appears that the system is initialised
with contradictory values, and MODULES=most is written into
/etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf regardless. Rather untidy.

Cheers,
David.

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#200150 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 09:02:22AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 08:37:45AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > > So, make /boot a big larger, say couple GiBs, and set data=journalled
> > 
> > BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition
> > tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole
> > OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the
> > original DEC Alphas?
> > 
> 
> The /boot on the desktop I'm using right now is 150MB. 70 is
> currently used.
> 
> The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two
> versions of each.
> 
> Grub eats almost 10MB.
> 
> If you put all necessary drivers into the kernel rather than as
> modules, and your system fits a particular set of criteria, you
> can do without an initrd or initramfs entirely. So a really 
> minimal but fully capable system could get away with 20 or 30 MB
> of /boot space.

Real men chain boot their GIF compressed kernel directly from
the floppy driver (since floppies are too slow without reading
direct), and catting the piped results into deARC direct to CPU.

Kids these days...


> That said, even a really constrained system like a $35 Raspberry
> Pi is likely to have 4 to 32 GB of storage available at boot
> time.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujitsu_Eagle
> 
> but you tell that to kids these days, and you might as well be
> chasing them off your lawn.

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#200129 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

Stefan Monnier wrote:

> BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition
> tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole
> OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the
> original DEC Alphas?

you may consider removing old images that you do not use as they are not
removed automatically AFAIR.

I keep n, n-1 and rearly n-2


regards

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#200131 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 15:16:14 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello deloptes,

>I keep n, n-1 and rearly n-2

IIRC, the default behaviour is that if a) the kernel was automatically
installed and b) the user hasn't increased the number of kernels to
keep, anything from n-2 is marked removable.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Walking through town is quite scary
I Predict A Riot - Kaiser Chiefs

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#200137 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

>> BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition
>> tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole
>> OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the
>> original DEC Alphas?
> you may consider removing old images that you do not use as they are not
> removed automatically AFAIR.
> I keep n, n-1 and rearly n-2

Obviously that's what we all do, I think.  My point was more
philosophical than asking for help, tho ;-)

I just find it amazing that the kernel has grown to be so big as to be
comparable to a complete unix distribution on a workstation of some
years ago (with GUI, compilers, ...).

And to a large extent they work identically (same windowing system, same
editor, same 1600x1200 screen resolution, ...).

Anyway... you can return to your regular daily Debianising,


        Stefan

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#200147 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 01:23:31PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>I just find it amazing that the kernel has grown to be so big as to be
>comparable to a complete unix distribution on a workstation of some
>years ago (with GUI, compilers, ...).

Have you tried one of those lately? I keep some around on VMs, and they 
were *terrible*. It's nice every once in a while to remember how far 
we've come.

Mike Stone

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#200155 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On 14.09.18 16:10, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 01:23:31PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > I just find it amazing that the kernel has grown to be so big as to be
> > comparable to a complete unix distribution on a workstation of some
> > years ago (with GUI, compilers, ...).
> 
> Have you tried one of those lately? I keep some around on VMs, and they were
> *terrible*. It's nice every once in a while to remember how far we've come.

Yep, as Stefan implied, not a step forward. I cannot detect any difference
between the SunOS-4.1.3 workstation I used just over a quarter of a
century ago, and my current linux box. The four xterms I put up are
still yellow on darkslategrey, from the same rgb.txt file as back then.

GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers futz with look
and feel, without adding life-enriching new functionality. I stopped
upgrading Eagle years ago, as its UI just became harder to use. And
Firefox/Iceweasel is slow as a wet week, sometimes crashes, and is
mostly a PITA. Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE.

At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, procmail,
awk, and the other daily basics.

Erik

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#200159 — Re: ext2 for /boot ???

On Saturday 15 September 2018 02:40:14 Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 14.09.18 16:10, Michael Stone wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 01:23:31PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > > I just find it amazing that the kernel has grown to be so big as
> > > to be comparable to a complete unix distribution on a workstation
> > > of some years ago (with GUI, compilers, ...).
> >
> > Have you tried one of those lately? I keep some around on VMs, and
> > they were *terrible*. It's nice every once in a while to remember
> > how far we've come.
>
> Yep, as Stefan implied, not a step forward. I cannot detect any
> difference between the SunOS-4.1.3 workstation I used just over a
> quarter of a century ago, and my current linux box. The four xterms I
> put up are still yellow on darkslategrey, from the same rgb.txt file
> as back then.
>
> GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers futz with
> look and feel, without adding life-enriching new functionality. I
> stopped upgrading Eagle years ago, as its UI just became harder to
> use. And Firefox/Iceweasel is slow as a wet week, sometimes crashes,
> and is mostly a PITA. Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE.
>
Thats why I run TDE.

> At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, procmail,
> awk, and the other daily basics.
>
> Erik



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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