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Groups > linux.debian.user > #199972 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Mimiko <vbvbrj@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-09-11 10:50 +0200 |
| Last post | 2018-09-13 05:00 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 91 — 29 participants |
Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user
root on ZFS Mimiko <vbvbrj@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 10:50 +0200
Re: root on ZFS <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-11 11:10 +0200
Re: root on ZFS Mimiko <vbvbrj@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 14:20 +0200
Re: root on ZFS <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-11 14:50 +0200
Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-11 15:00 +0200
Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-11 14:50 +0200
ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-11 20:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-11 20:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-11 20:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 01:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 05:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Mimiko <vbvbrj@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 07:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-12 11:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2018-09-12 11:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-12 21:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2018-09-12 21:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-12 23:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-13 00:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-14 05:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2018-09-14 06:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-09-14 14:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-14 14:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-14 17:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 18:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-14 20:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-15 00:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-15 08:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-15 18:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-16 00:00 +0200
Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-09-16 00:50 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-17 20:10 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 20:20 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-18 20:10 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-09-19 05:00 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-19 17:50 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Igor Cicimov <icicimov@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 01:10 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 18:20 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 19:20 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 20:20 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-27 10:00 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-27 17:40 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Igor Cicimov <icicimov@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 13:10 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-30 03:20 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-30 08:50 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-30 12:10 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-30 23:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 11:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-09-14 15:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-14 20:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-15 00:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-15 09:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-16 16:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-10 00:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2018-09-15 01:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 15:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-09-14 16:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-09-14 19:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-14 22:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2018-09-15 08:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-15 10:10 +0200
The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-09-15 10:20 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-15 10:50 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-09-15 11:30 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-16 16:50 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 19:00 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-09-18 21:10 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> - 2018-09-15 12:50 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> - 2018-09-15 12:50 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> - 2018-09-15 13:00 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry etienne.mollier@mailoo.org - 2018-09-16 12:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 11:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-09-14 14:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 06:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-14 17:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-14 21:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 11:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 08:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 08:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 09:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-09-12 11:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 12:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-12 15:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 17:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-09-12 18:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 18:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-12 09:50 +0200
Re: root on ZFS Mimiko <vbvbrj@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 08:00 +0200
Re: root on ZFS David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-09-12 02:40 +0200
Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-12 16:00 +0200
Re: root on ZFS David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-09-13 04:30 +0200
Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mattcrews@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-13 05:00 +0200
Page 4 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 Next page →
| From | Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 10:20 +0200 |
| Subject | The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) |
| Message-ID | <wydY6-2G8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200159 |
Good Day, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> on 2018-09-15T10:04 CEST: > On Saturday 15 September 2018 02:40:14 Erik Christiansen wrote: > > GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers > > futz with look and feel, without adding life-enriching new > > functionality. I stopped upgrading Eagle years ago, as its > > UI just became harder to use. And Firefox/Iceweasel is slow > > as a wet week, sometimes crashes, and is mostly a PITA. > > Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE. > > > > At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, > > procmail, awk, and the other daily basics. > > Thats why I run TDE. If you wish software that sucks less, you might wish to consider building your own : https://suckless.org That's what I do for some time now, on top of Debian Sid. :-) Kind Regards, -- Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 10:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wyer8-2Pl-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200160 |
Étienne Mollier composed on 2018-09-15 10:15 (UTC+0200): > Gene Heskett on 2018-09-15T10:04 CEST: >> Erik Christiansen wrote: >>> GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers >>> futz with look and feel, without adding life-enriching new >>> functionality. I stopped upgrading Eagle years ago, as its >>> UI just became harder to use. And Firefox/Iceweasel is slow >>> as a wet week, sometimes crashes, and is mostly a PITA. >>> Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE. >>> At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, >>> procmail, awk, and the other daily basics. >> Thats why I run TDE. > If you wish software that sucks less, you might wish to consider > building your own : > https://suckless.org > That's what I do for some time now, on top of Debian Sid. :-) KDE3 was stable and efficient, didn't need to be abandoned to (re)create KDE4 from scratch. In openSUSE, KDE3 remains available, though a little lighter for having lost most maintainers and a few packages. TDE, the KDE3 fork, hasn't lost any of what made KDE3 nice and stable, while acquiring a few improvements to match morphing technology, keeping stability, avoiding useless bloat, and not dumbing down its UI. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 11:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wyf3P-3gj-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200161 |
Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> on 2018-09-15T10:43 (CEST): > KDE3 was stable and efficient, didn't need to be abandoned to > (re)create KDE4 from scratch. In openSUSE, KDE3 remains > available, though a little lighter for having lost most > maintainers and a few packages. TDE, the KDE3 fork, hasn't > lost any of what made KDE3 nice and stable, while acquiring a > few improvements to match morphing technology, keeping > stability, avoiding useless bloat, and not dumbing down its > UI. I must acknowledge the qualities of KDE3, and most probably TDE, My first GNU/Linux computer ran a Mandriva 2007 (released late 2006) operating system, shipping by default with KDE 3.5. The box itself was some junk from early 2000 with average hardware even from these days standards. It is cool having seen that kind of user interface run on a AMD K6, 256 MiB RAM and 4 GiB of disk space for /, /home and the swap: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/images/a/ac/Screenshot2-1.jpg Since then, I left more room for wallpapers and xter^H^H^H^H st terminal emulators... Perhaps I should give a try to TDE one of these days, to bring back memory from my childhood. :-) Kind Regards, -- Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>
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| From | Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-16 16:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wyGx3-2gV-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200163 |
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 11:21:03 +0200 Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> wrote: ... > My first GNU/Linux computer ran a Mandriva 2007 (released late > 2006) operating system, shipping by default with KDE 3.5. The > box itself was some junk from early 2000 with average hardware > even from these days standards. > > It is cool having seen that kind of user interface run on a AMD > K6, 256 MiB RAM and 4 GiB of disk space for /, /home and the > swap: > > https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/images/a/ac/Screenshot2-1.jpg My first GNU/Linux system was BasicLinux, essentially a "Live F[loppy]DD" distribution. It's a whole 2.8MB, and runs off two floppies. I don't recall the exact details of its X implementation, but I still vividly remember the thrill I felt that first time when, after modprobing (or insmoding?) the appropriate ethernet driver and then configuring and bringing up the interface, I had a working *nix system with a working network connection! https://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/ Celejar
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| From | Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-18 19:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wzrvY-4vl-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200202 |
Just bragging. First booted linux on a 40MHz PS/2 Model 50 with 8MB RAM. It took X Windows about 10 minutes to start, but it was fully responsive once it was up. Used Twm in those days :-) still available I believe. I rebuilt the kernel once to add a driver. It took 2.5 days, but succeeded and booted. The distro was Linux Universe from the German publisher Springer. Prosit! Opaa! On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:41 AM Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 11:21:03 +0200 > Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> wrote: > > ... > > > My first GNU/Linux computer ran a Mandriva 2007 (released late > > 2006) operating system, shipping by default with KDE 3.5. The > > box itself was some junk from early 2000 with average hardware > > even from these days standards. > > > > It is cool having seen that kind of user interface run on a AMD > > K6, 256 MiB RAM and 4 GiB of disk space for /, /home and the > > swap: > > > > https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/images/a/ac/Screenshot2-1.jpg > > My first GNU/Linux system was BasicLinux, essentially a "Live > F[loppy]DD" distribution. It's a whole 2.8MB, and runs off two > floppies. I don't recall the exact details of its X implementation, but > I still vividly remember the thrill I felt that first time when, after > modprobing (or insmoding?) the appropriate ethernet driver and then > configuring and bringing up the interface, I had a working *nix system > with a working network connection! > > https://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/ > > Celejar >
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| From | Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-18 21:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wztxL-5Uh-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200278 |
On 9/18/18 6:56 PM, Nicholas Geovanis wrote: > Used Twm in those days :-) still available I believe. Still available, still fast, and still in use if I trust windows decorations illustrating that work on window scaling: https://keithp.com/blogs/window-scaling/ I haven't used it a lot but I recall having had difficulties with its ergonomics. The program is indeed still available in the package “twm”. On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:41 AM Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote: > https://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/ Tinkering a bit with BasicLinux in Qemu, I confirm it is interesting to see how the system fits in the human mind: - /etc listing that fits in the screen - `ps aux` output after boot too - simple X programs spawning rxvt terms to show messages, configuration, calendars. Simple design is simple. The catch with the default X server “Xvesa” was that it had very few modes available, and a recommendation was to use the “Xserver” implementation provided in Slackware 4 if the screen was somewhere between supported modes, if this document is right: https://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/xvesa.html Thanks Celejar for the pointer! Kind Regards, -- Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>
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| From | Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 12:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) |
| Message-ID | <wygjf-3Ul-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200160 |
Hi, everybody... > this only on sid? 15.09.2018, 13:37, "Thakur Mahashaya" <thmsh@yandex.ru>: > Hi, everybody... > this only on ...? > > 15.09.2018, 11:16, "Étienne Mollier" <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>: >> Good Day, >> >> Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> on 2018-09-15T10:04 CEST: >>> On Saturday 15 September 2018 02:40:14 Erik Christiansen wrote: >>> > GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers >>> > futz with look and feel, without adding life-enriching new >>> > functionality. I stopped upgrading Eagle years ago, as its >>> > UI just became harder to use. And Firefox/Iceweasel is slow >>> > as a wet week, sometimes crashes, and is mostly a PITA. >>> > Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE. >>> > >>> > At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, >>> > procmail, awk, and the other daily basics. >>> >>> Thats why I run TDE. >> >> If you wish software that sucks less, you might wish to consider >> building your own : >> >> https://suckless.org >> >> That's what I do for some time now, on top of Debian Sid. :-) >> >> Kind Regards, >> -- >> Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>
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| From | Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 12:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) |
| Message-ID | <wygjf-3Ul-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200160 |
Hi, everybody... this only on ...? 15.09.2018, 11:16, "Étienne Mollier" <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>: > Good Day, > > Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> on 2018-09-15T10:04 CEST: >> On Saturday 15 September 2018 02:40:14 Erik Christiansen wrote: >> > GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers >> > futz with look and feel, without adding life-enriching new >> > functionality. I stopped upgrading Eagle years ago, as its >> > UI just became harder to use. And Firefox/Iceweasel is slow >> > as a wet week, sometimes crashes, and is mostly a PITA. >> > Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE. >> > >> > At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, >> > procmail, awk, and the other daily basics. >> >> Thats why I run TDE. > > If you wish software that sucks less, you might wish to consider > building your own : > > https://suckless.org > > That's what I do for some time now, on top of Debian Sid. :-) > > Kind Regards, > -- > Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>
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| From | Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 13:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) |
| Message-ID | <wygsW-3Xu-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200167 |
Hi, everybody... this only on Debian Sid ? 15.09.2018, 13:37, "Thakur Mahashaya" <thmsh@yandex.ru>: > Hi, everybody... > this only on ...? > > 15.09.2018, 11:16, "Étienne Mollier" <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>: >> Good Day, >> >> Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> on 2018-09-15T10:04 CEST: >>> On Saturday 15 September 2018 02:40:14 Erik Christiansen wrote: >>> > GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers >>> > futz with look and feel, without adding life-enriching new >>> > functionality. I stopped upgrading Eagle years ago, as its >>> > UI just became harder to use. And Firefox/Iceweasel is slow >>> > as a wet week, sometimes crashes, and is mostly a PITA. >>> > Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE. >>> > >>> > At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, >>> > procmail, awk, and the other daily basics. >>> >>> Thats why I run TDE. >> >> If you wish software that sucks less, you might wish to consider >> building your own : >> >> https://suckless.org >> >> That's what I do for some time now, on top of Debian Sid. :-) >> >> Kind Regards, >> -- >> Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>
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| From | etienne.mollier@mailoo.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-16 12:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wyCjM-8pr-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200168 |
Good Day Thakur, > 15.09.2018, 11:16, "Étienne Mollier" <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>: > > Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> on 2018-09-15T10:04 CEST: > > > On Saturday 15 September 2018 02:40:14 Erik Christiansen wrote: > > > > Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE. > > > > > > Thats why I run TDE. > > > > If you wish software that sucks less, you might wish to > > consider building your own : > > > > https://suckless.org > > > > That's what I do for some time now, on top of Debian Sid. > > :-) Le 2018-09-15 10:51, Thakur Mahashaya a écrit : > Hi, everybody... > this only on Debian Sid ? Well, there are a few packages available in Debian Stable for a few versions: - dwm, - stterm, (called this way as it formerly conflicted with a tape reading program called "st", I believe) - surf, - suckless-tools. But if you were wishing to configure them, even a tiny bit, you would have to rebuild them from source anyway, as they configure through a C header file "config.h". You should be able to build these tools on any GNU/Linux distribution as long as they are able to provide the build dependencies. So, not only on Sid to answer your question. :-) Kind Regards, -- Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>
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| From | Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-26 11:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wCdZv-5bx-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200125 |
On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 08:37:45AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> So, make /boot a big larger, say couple GiBs, and set data=journalled > >BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition >tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole >OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the >original DEC Alphas? This reminds me that I filed a d-i bug to increase the default size of /boot for normal installations, I need to chase that up. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-14 14:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wxVHP-b4-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200112 |
> BUT, /boot is kinda critical (thus "ext2 is simpler"), BUT "data
> journaled" actually might be most sensible for /boot - ext3/4 by
> default (AIUI) only journals metadata, so that the fs is at least
> readable/ sane from kernel perspective, but when booting, we REALLY
> want sane data to be read, no?
I suggest:
mkfs /dev/<my-boot-partition>
It's really not worth spending much time deciding which file-system is
best for this partition.
Stefan
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| From | Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-14 06:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wxO3E-4ea-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200045 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 5:36 AM Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> wrote:
> On 2018-09-12 10:11 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 11:32:56PM -0400, Lee wrote:
> >>Just out of curiosity - why would journaling be undesirable on a
> >>partition that is almost never written to?
> >
> > …I'm not sure what the answer to your question is, but with regards
> > /boot and filesystems: on one EFI host of mine, I had a lot of problems
> > with /boot/efi precisely because it couldn't be journalled (mandated to
> > be vfat) and I had filesystem issues with it after every unscheduled
> > power failure. I ended up bodging my system to mount it read-only by
> > default, and had to add some apt hooks to remount it writeable for a
> > selection of packages (e.g. new kernel, basically anything that might
> > trigger an initramfs rebuild)
>
> This sounds like you put /boot/efi on the same filesystem as /boot which
> is not recommended or supported at all[1]. On my laptop there is only a
> single file under /boot/efi, namely /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi -
> which will be written to on updates to the grub-efi package, but not
> when installing a new kernel or rebuilding an initramfs.
This is ABSOLUTELY not supported, because VFAT doesn't give the Permissions
and File Ownership needed for the Linux Kernel, and supporting files.
Also, you might be using an existing EFI Partition, courtesy of Microsoft.
(For example, I have a Lenovo, that came with Windows 10 Installed, which
I Completely Replaced with Xubuntu 16.04 [planned to be replaced with
Debian Stretch in the next Month]. The only Windows now is under
Virtualbox, and hasn't been booted in Months! BUT: EFI is the original
vfat Partition that came with the Laptop). /boot is ext2, because I was
never "told" to make it anything else!
> Cheers,
Sven
>
> 1. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=163988
Best regards,
Kenneth Parker
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-14 17:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wxYmm-1N4-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200114 |
On Fri 14 Sep 2018 at 00:31:16 (-0400), Kenneth Parker wrote: > On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 5:36 AM Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> wrote: > > On 2018-09-12 10:11 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 11:32:56PM -0400, Lee wrote: > > >>Just out of curiosity - why would journaling be undesirable on a > > >>partition that is almost never written to? > > > > > > …I'm not sure what the answer to your question is, but with regards > > > /boot and filesystems: on one EFI host of mine, I had a lot of problems > > > with /boot/efi precisely because it couldn't be journalled (mandated to > > > be vfat) and I had filesystem issues with it after every unscheduled > > > power failure. I ended up bodging my system to mount it read-only by > > > default, and had to add some apt hooks to remount it writeable for a > > > selection of packages (e.g. new kernel, basically anything that might > > > trigger an initramfs rebuild) > > > > This sounds like you put /boot/efi on the same filesystem as /boot which > > is not recommended or supported at all[1]. On my laptop there is only a > > single file under /boot/efi, namely /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi - > > which will be written to on updates to the grub-efi package, but not > > when installing a new kernel or rebuilding an initramfs. > > > This is ABSOLUTELY not supported, because VFAT doesn't give the Permissions > and File Ownership needed for the Linux Kernel, and supporting files. This is a partial listing of my ESP which is used for booting Windows10, and of /boot (which is part of / here). Could you elaborate on which permission/ownership information is missing in either. $ ls -laF /media/swan02/ /media/swan02/*/ /media/swan02/: total 24 drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Dec 31 1969 ./ drwxr-xr-x 94 root root 4096 Sep 13 16:24 ../ drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 27 2013 BOOT/ -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 512 Aug 8 2015 BOOTSECT.BAK* drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jun 27 2013 EFI/ drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Nov 17 2016 System Volume Information/ /media/swan02/BOOT/: total 3104 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 27 2013 ./ drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Dec 31 1969 ../ -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 3170304 Jun 2 2012 boot.sdi* /media/swan02/EFI/: total 16 drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jun 27 2013 ./ drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Dec 31 1969 ../ drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 27 2013 Boot/ drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jun 27 2013 Microsoft/ /media/swan02/System Volume Information/: total 12 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Nov 17 2016 ./ drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Dec 31 1969 ../ -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 76 Nov 17 2016 IndexerVolumeGuid* $ ls -laF /boot/ total 24696 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Sep 14 10:07 ./ drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 4096 Aug 20 23:00 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 186568 Aug 13 14:31 config-4.9.0-7-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 186589 Aug 21 09:50 config-4.9.0-8-amd64 drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Aug 24 16:32 grub/ -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5015105 Aug 18 08:27 initrd.img-4.9.0-7-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5015414 Aug 23 06:58 initrd.img-4.9.0-8-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3192069 Aug 13 14:31 System.map-4.9.0-7-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3193845 Aug 21 09:50 System.map-4.9.0-8-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4232992 Aug 13 14:31 vmlinuz-4.9.0-7-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4237088 Aug 21 09:50 vmlinuz-4.9.0-8-amd64 $ > Also, you might be using an existing EFI Partition, courtesy of Microsoft. > (For example, I have a Lenovo, that came with Windows 10 Installed, Same here, except that it was bought in 2013-11 and upgraded to W10. AIUI the ESP is designed to be shared between OSes for the storage of their boot loaders, kernels and device drivers. That would include all the files above. > which > I Completely Replaced with Xubuntu 16.04 [planned to be replaced with > Debian Stretch in the next Month]. The only Windows now is under > Virtualbox, and hasn't been booted in Months! BUT: EFI is the original > vfat Partition that came with the Laptop). … whereas I installed Debian as if this was the sole OS by using the BIOS booting method rather than EFI. W10 knows to ignore the linux installation; Debian mounts the W10 partitions readonly. Interfering with W10 (beyond using its defrag/optimise filesystem and shrink partition operations) was not an option. > /boot is ext2, because I was > never "told" to make it anything else! As I was already carving five partitions out of the main MS Data partition (two root filesystems, swap, /home and BIOS boot), there seemed little point in adding yet another for no particular benefit. There are now 14 partitions in total (GPT), plus 1MB of free space at each end. Cheers, David.
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| From | Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-14 21:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wy1tT-3wc-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200133 |
Le 14/09/2018 à 17:37, David Wright a écrit : > On Fri 14 Sep 2018 at 00:31:16 (-0400), Kenneth Parker wrote: >> >> This is ABSOLUTELY not supported, because VFAT doesn't give the Permissions >> and File Ownership needed for the Linux Kernel, and supporting files. > > This is a partial listing of my ESP which is used for booting > Windows10, and of /boot (which is part of / here). Could you elaborate > on which permission/ownership information is missing in either. AFAIK, the kernel image, the initramfs and boot loader specific files (such as GRUB config and modules) do not need any special permissions. These files are used only by the boot loader, which ignores permissions. They are not used during the Linux kernel operation. A FAT filesystem can be mounted with options which set permissions to prevent write by any standard user.
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| From | Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-26 11:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wCdZv-5bx-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200045 |
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 11:36:22AM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote: >This sounds like you put /boot/efi on the same filesystem as /boot which >is not recommended or supported at all[1]. On my laptop there is only a >single file under /boot/efi, namely /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi - >which will be written to on updates to the grub-efi package, but not >when installing a new kernel or rebuilding an initramfs. No, I didn't: /boot was ext4, journalled, and could recover from most unexpected power failures. The issue was /boot/efi being mandated to vfat, not journalled, and requiring a fsck on just about every power outage. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-12 08:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wx6vE-46j-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200016 |
Felix Miata wrote: > How often does /boot get written to, as much as 5 minutes per year? All my > /boot partitions are EXT2, (in part) /because/ it has no journaling. I had the same for years, but recently I upgraded the boot partition to ext3 - it is more reliable in case for example when power cuts and you have to recover on the fly. This is the main argument using something with journal for boot - as it can repair itself transperently regards
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-12 08:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wx6Fj-49m-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200033 |
deloptes composed on 2018-09-12 08:02 (UTC+0200): > Felix Miata wrote: >> How often does /boot get written to, as much as 5 minutes per year? All my >> /boot partitions are EXT2, (in part) /because/ it has no journaling. > I had the same for years, but recently I upgraded the boot partition to > ext3 - it is more reliable in case for example when power cuts and you have > to recover on the fly. > This is the main argument using something with journal for boot - as it can > repair itself transperently If the filesystem is being written to less than 5 minutes per year, what do you suppose the odds are that power could be lost during any portion of that less than 5 minutes of writing? Given my PCs are all running on backup power, the odds are virtual zero. I want my boot partitions accessible no matter what I boot, even if it means booting using a Windows 98 floppy disk, attaching it via USB to a Mac, or booting an ancient PC running a pre-2.4 kernel. EXT2 has maximum backward compatibility. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-12 09:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wx7i2-4lq-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200034 |
Felix Miata wrote: > If the filesystem is being written to less than 5 minutes per year, what > do you suppose the odds are that power could be lost during any portion of > that less than 5 minutes of writing? Given my PCs are all running on > backup power, the odds are virtual zero. I want my boot partitions > accessible no matter what I boot, even if it means booting using a Windows > 98 floppy disk, attaching it via USB to a Mac, or booting an ancient PC > running a pre-2.4 kernel. EXT2 has maximum backward compatibility. Don't know about you, but no one recommends using ext2 as boot anymore. I also use UPS and still converted to ext3 after server crash and having issues with the ext2 and the booting - it was long time ago, so I do not recall all details. None of the usecases makes sense to me as they are really not trivial. It is however useful to know what is good for, but it is also rather an exception to a normal use case. In fact ext2 should be considered obsoleted in any means regards
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| From | Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-12 11:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wx9tv-5ME-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200034 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, 12 Sep 2018 02:18:46 -0400
Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
Hello Felix,
>If the filesystem is being written to less than 5 minutes per year,
>what do you suppose the odds are that power could be lost during any
>portion of that less
I've had it happen to me. The law of 'least convenient time for an event
to occur' would make chances of power failure during /boot write high.
It's the main reason I now use a UPS.
--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
I'm doubling the rent 'coz the building's condemned
Let's Lynch The Landlord - Dead Kennedys
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