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[OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

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  [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Francesco Porro <frapox@yahoo.it> - 2018-08-28 18:20 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Mark Rousell <mark.rousell@signal100.com> - 2018-08-28 18:30 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-28 18:40 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Francesco Porro <frapox@yahoo.it> - 2018-08-28 19:10 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2018-08-29 01:30 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-08-28 20:10 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Mark Rousell <mark.rousell@signal100.com> - 2018-08-28 20:50 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> - 2018-08-28 22:30 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-08-28 22:40 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> - 2018-08-28 23:40 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Dominic Knight <dominicknight@gmx.com> - 2018-08-29 00:10 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> - 2018-08-29 00:40 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-08-29 10:20 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 10:40 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-08-29 10:50 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2018-08-29 11:10 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-08-29 12:10 +0200
            Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 12:20 +0200
            Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-08-29 13:20 +0200
              Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-08-29 13:30 +0200
                Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-08-29 14:30 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-08-29 12:20 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 12:20 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-08-29 18:00 +0200
            Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-29 18:30 +0200
              Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-08-29 21:50 +0200
            Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-08-29 21:40 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-29 18:00 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Francesco Porro <frapox@yahoo.it> - 2018-08-29 15:50 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-29 17:50 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 18:10 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-29 18:40 +0200
            Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 18:50 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 13:00 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Francesco Porro <frapox@yahoo.it> - 2018-08-29 15:50 +0200
    RE: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Edwin Pers <EPers@ansencorp.com> - 2018-09-19 15:10 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> - 2018-09-19 16:00 +0200

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#199573

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 12:24:36 +0100
mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello mick,

>I use Brave browser mostly with handy shields option.
>Some of these media sites have like 80 trackers and wotnot which is
>just daft.

Agreed, but that's something else.

"I don't care..." blocks EU required _warnings_ about cookies being used
on a website(1), nothing more.  If you wish to block cookies selectively,
you need to use some sort of cookie manager - the Firefox internal
'manager' is woefully inadequate.

(1) The warning is asinine;  Everyone knows cookies are used anyway.
It's another case of---
Being seen to be doing something, whilst maintaining the status quo.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Tell the dinosaurs they just won't survive
The History Of The World (Part 1) - The Damned

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#199551

On Wednesday 29 August 2018 04:34:38 tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Francesco Porro wrote:
> > Ciao,
> >
> > As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for
> > you: which is the best free email service around to receive mailing
> > lists?
>
> As many others have pointed out in this thread, "free" (I think you
> mean "no money" aka "cheap") and "best" somehow are in conflict.
>
> If you're not paying money, they are monetizing you in some other way.
> This is the sad reality of today's society (not that there aren't
> people fighting to change that, mind you).
>
> My recommendation over here in Germany (which should be as accessible
> to you as an Italian, but perhaps there are equivalent Italian offers,
> which I'd tend to support, were I you)
>
>   - posteo.de
>   - mailbox.org
>
> Each of them cost you 1 EUR/month, which is less than 1
> Espresso/month. Worth every cent, IMHO.
>
> We get what we pay for. Short term (obvious) and long term (less
> obvious): those small companies would cease to exist if everyone
> took the "cheap way out".
>
> Cheers
> -- tomás

This is also true, but on this side of the pond, the inet service I pay 
40 USD a month for, is expected to supply the mail server free, in this 
case a copy of dovecot which has a pop3 portal too and is surprisingly 
low spam because it has an extensive blacklist of crap it doesn't even 
accept so extensive I've had to whitelist half of the mailing lists I'm 
on. For that I have their cable modem, facing a router running dd-wrt, 
which feeds an 8 port switch to connect up the rest of the machines here 
so all have access to the 10 megabyte DL service that usually shows 
around 11, and the correspondingly slower DSL upload thats just under 3 
megabytes/second in actual speed.

dd-wrt's firewall is bullet-proof, nothing comes in that wasn't invited 
except other folks accessing my web page, listed in the sig.



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#199554

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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 06:12:39AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 29 August 2018 04:34:38 tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > We get what we pay for [...]

> This is also true, but on this side of the pond, the inet service I pay 
> 40 USD a month for, is expected to supply the mail server free [...]

If your connectivity provider treats you well, this is a fine option.
I have my current connectivity provider in relatively low esteem (that
might change), so I wouldn't like to entrust them with something as
(hopefully) permanent as my mail address.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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#199595

On Wed 29 Aug 2018 at 12:19:18 (+0200), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 06:12:39AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 29 August 2018 04:34:38 tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > We get what we pay for [...]
> 
> > This is also true, but on this side of the pond, the inet service I pay 
> > 40 USD a month for, is expected to supply the mail server free [...]
> 
> If your connectivity provider treats you well, this is a fine option.
> I have my current connectivity provider in relatively low esteem (that
> might change), so I wouldn't like to entrust them with something as
> (hopefully) permanent as my mail address.

And, of course, if you move house, your current ISP might not be
available. Or you decide you need/don't need cable TV/landline, and
want to switch provider. Or Fibre To The Cabinet/Premises arrives via
a different provider. These are all reasons not to commit to your ISP
as email address provider.

It's cheap to register your own domain and find a suitable hosting
provider. This makes moving and travelling much simpler.

Cheers,
David.

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#199601

David writes:
> It's cheap to register your own domain and find a suitable hosting
> provider. This makes moving and travelling much simpler.

With Gandi at least, no hosting is required.  They will forward mail to
your domain to any address you specify.  There needn't be any server of
any kind associated with the domain.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#199617

On Wed 29 Aug 2018 at 11:26:31 (-0500), John Hasler wrote:
> David writes:
> > It's cheap to register your own domain and find a suitable hosting
> > provider. This makes moving and travelling much simpler.
> 
> With Gandi at least, no hosting is required.  They will forward mail to
> your domain to any address you specify.  There needn't be any server of
> any kind associated with the domain.

I'm not sure what use a domain name is if no one is hosting the domain.
Anyway, see the last sentence of this posting.

    "Domain registration information is maintained by the domain name
    registries, which contract with domain registrars to provide
    registration services to the public. An end user selects a
    registrar to provide the registration service, and that registrar
    becomes the designated registrar for the domain chosen by the
    user.

    Only the designated registrar may modify or delete information
    about domain names in a central registry database. It is not
    unusual for an end user to switch registrars, invoking a domain
    transfer process between the registrars involved, that is governed
    by specific domain name transfer policies." (Wikipedia)

So, for example, I switched registrar because I originally bought my
domain through my then ISP, but I later switched ISP and moved the
domain to an independent registrar because (a) the old ISP wouldn't
host it and (b) it was something not to have to think about again
when later switching ISP.

    "Registration of a domain does not automatically imply the
    provision of DNS services for the registered domain. Most
    registrars do offer DNS hosting as an optional free service for
    domains registered through them. If DNS services are not offered,
    or the end-user opts out, the end-user is responsible for
    procuring or self-hosting DNS services. Without DNS services for
    the domain, the registration is essentially useless for Internet
    services, although this situation is often encountered with domain
    parking and cybersquatting." (ibid.)

    "Registrars require the specification of usually at least two name
    servers." (ibid.)

Cheers,
David.

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#199615

On Wednesday 29 August 2018 11:58:49 David Wright wrote:

> On Wed 29 Aug 2018 at 12:19:18 (+0200), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 06:12:39AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 29 August 2018 04:34:38 tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > > We get what we pay for [...]
> > >
> > > This is also true, but on this side of the pond, the inet service
> > > I pay 40 USD a month for, is expected to supply the mail server
> > > free [...]
> >
> > If your connectivity provider treats you well, this is a fine
> > option. I have my current connectivity provider in relatively low
> > esteem (that might change), so I wouldn't like to entrust them with
> > something as (hopefully) permanent as my mail address.
>
> And, of course, if you move house, your current ISP might not be
> available. Or you decide you need/don't need cable TV/landline, and
> want to switch provider. Or Fibre To The Cabinet/Premises arrives via
> a different provider. These are all reasons not to commit to your ISP
> as email address provider.
>
> It's cheap to register your own domain and find a suitable hosting
> provider. This makes moving and travelling much simpler.
>
> Cheers,
> David.

I've had the same physical address for 29 years this fall.  I've moved 
providers several times, nearly always for improved service.  All of 
verizons landlines are 60 yo copper, and have been "discovered" by 
everybody in town who owns a garden spade. 5 years ago I lost telephone 
in January, had to complain to the PSC to get it fixed, repeat 4 days 
later, repeat, call the PSC, get cussed out by vz's people asking why I 
kept calling the PSC, wrong question, they hung up on my answer, twice. 

When I looked at the logs about the middle of May, I'd had a working 
telephone for 11 days since the first of the year. I have patience, but 
that was too much since the bills arrived on time and were paid on time 
by my bank , so I moved it all to the local cable company and have had 
zero wishes to ever look back, barring power failures exceeding 12 
hours, it has Just Worked.

I put in a 20kw nat gas standby generator in about in that same time 
frame just so I could keep the AC and the missus's oxygen generator 
running.  Thats been a lifesaver for her.

AFAIAC, vz can go jump off a mountain, preferably west of the San Andreas 
fault, which will, sometime in the next few hundred years, slide into 
the pacific anyway.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#199596

tomás writes:
> If your connectivity provider treats you well, this is a fine option.
> I have my current connectivity provider in relatively low esteem (that
> might change), so I wouldn't like to entrust them with something as
> (hopefully) permanent as my mail address.

Register a domain with Gandi (no need for a Web site) and they will
forward mail sent to it to your current provider.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#199587

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Il 29/08/2018 10:34, tomas@tuxteam.de ha scritto:
> My recommendation over here in Germany (which should be as accessible
> to you as an Italian, but perhaps there are equivalent Italian offers,
> which I'd tend to support, were I you)
> 
>   - posteo.de
>   - mailbox.org
> 
> Each of them cost you 1 EUR/month, which is less than 1 Espresso/month.
> Worth every cent, IMHO.

Ok, I'm taking note of these two in case I need a chep but safe place to
store private mails. Thnx :)

-- 
fp

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#199594

tomás writes:
> If you're not paying money, they are monetizing you in some other way.
> This is the sad reality of today's society (not that there aren't
> people fighting to change that, mind you).

It's not "the sad reality of today's society".  It's reality, period.
What they do consumes resources.

> not that there aren't people fighting to change that, mind you

To what?

> My recommendation over here in Germany (which should be as accessible
> to you as an Italian, but perhaps there are equivalent Italian offers,
> which I'd tend to support, were I you)

>  - posteo.de
>  - mailbox.org

> Each of them cost you 1 EUR/month, which is less than 1 Espresso/month.
> Worth every cent, IMHO.

Here in the USA I use Newsguy.  There are others.

> We get what we pay for.

Sometimes.  Want to buy a bridge?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#199600

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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:48:27AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> tomás writes:
> > If you're not paying money, they are monetizing you in some other way.
> > This is the sad reality of today's society (not that there aren't
> > people fighting to change that, mind you).
> 
> It's not "the sad reality of today's society".  It's reality, period.
> What they do consumes resources.
> 
> > not that there aren't people fighting to change that, mind you
> 
> To what?

You can dream of a society where some basic things aren't monetized.
You can dream of a society where even breathing air is monetized
(the drinking water thing is being worked on right now, no worries).

Cheers
- -- tomás
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#199602

tomás writes:
> You can dream of a society where some basic things aren't monetized.

Scarce resources *must* be allocated.  Trade, facilitated by money, is
a decentralized way to do it.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#199603

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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:34:37AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> tomás writes:
> > You can dream of a society where some basic things aren't monetized.
> 
> Scarce resources *must* be allocated.  Trade, facilitated by money, is
> a decentralized way to do it.

(straying dangerously off-topic, so I'll stop at this)

...but money can put those who are able to "print" it at an
unfair advantage ("printing" in some figurative sense, speculation
is a form of printing), which tends to end badly when such resources
are vital.

Cheers
- -- t
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#199560

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On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Francesco Porro wrote:
> Ciao,
> 
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

Perhaps relevant in this discussion's context:

  https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/08/29/0919244/yahoo-bucking-industry-scans-emails-for-data-to-sell-advertisers

Some people might feel comfy with that. They're gettint a
no-monetary-cost service, after all. Some not. And I don't
believe this from the original article blindly: "The U.S.
tech industry has largely declared it is off limits to scan
emails for information to sell to advertisers.". Rather it
seems to me about being caught or not. Or about waiting for
more propice times.

Cheers
- -- t
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#199586

Thank you for all your precious advices and considerations, expecially
for privacy-releaded concerns. Indeed, I'm very well aware of this
aspects, but perhaps you're missing my point: the mailbox will be used
*only* for mailing lists, which content is (usually) of public domain,
on the web. So privacy is not a strict requirement in this *specific*
use case. I won't feel too bad if my $MAIL_PROVIDER mines data from my
mails since they're not private ones, but i won't feel ok if the mailbox
don't work well technically. As I stated before, I want:

	– no ramdom spam filtering (at least the chance to disable the spam
filter, which it seems Y don't let me to).
	– full (no restrictions on the amount of data transferred) and stable
imap access.

Since I'm not reading (particular) complaints about Gmx, I think I'm
going to give it a try, subscribing to MLs I'm already sub on this Y
account. Just to see how it behaves, and then I'll decide whether making
the "switch" or not.

Thank everyone again!


-- 
fp

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#200295

-----Original Message-----
From: Francesco Porro <frapox@yahoo.it> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 12:12 PM
To: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

>Now, i'm using a free account on yahoo, as you can see, but I get some of email bounces and moreover spam filters are really awful: they mark as spam a lot of non-spam, >genuine mails coming from i.e. the Gnome/Evolution mailing list. Some months ago I was subscribed on my primary account which is a Gmail one, but then I wanted to separat
>mailing lists from the rest (so I moved those to yahoo).


Why not just get another gmail account? Google lets you have as many as you like, and you can link them together.

-ed

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#200296

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Francesco Porro wrote:
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

None.

Free email services are wholly inadequate for professional uses like
participation in mailing lists.  They suffice for some "throwaway"
purposes but none of them have managed to demonstrate acceptable
levels of competence and diligence, and most of them are plagued
by systemic, chronic problems such as laughably bad anti-spam controls
(both in the sense of false negatives and false positives) and
completely non-responsive RFC 2142 role addresses (e.g., postmaster).
A number of them have been repeatedly hacked on a large scale, and
several of them continue to exhibit problems strongly suggesting
that the lights are on, but nobody's home.

If you want quality service, you're going to have to pay for it.
(Note that you also pay for free email services: it's just that the bill
isn't quite so overt.)  I recommend Panix (panix.com) as one provider
worthy of consideration.  (Note: I'm a long-time Panix customer,
however I get nothing for recommending them.)  There are others
who also provide quality service at reasonable rates and who have
demonstrated that they're run by clueful, attentive, responsive people.

---rsk

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