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[OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

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  [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Francesco Porro <frapox@yahoo.it> - 2018-08-28 18:20 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Mark Rousell <mark.rousell@signal100.com> - 2018-08-28 18:30 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-28 18:40 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Francesco Porro <frapox@yahoo.it> - 2018-08-28 19:10 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2018-08-29 01:30 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2018-08-28 20:10 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Mark Rousell <mark.rousell@signal100.com> - 2018-08-28 20:50 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> - 2018-08-28 22:30 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-08-28 22:40 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> - 2018-08-28 23:40 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Dominic Knight <dominicknight@gmx.com> - 2018-08-29 00:10 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> - 2018-08-29 00:40 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-08-29 10:20 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 10:40 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-08-29 10:50 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2018-08-29 11:10 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-08-29 12:10 +0200
            Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 12:20 +0200
            Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-08-29 13:20 +0200
              Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-08-29 13:30 +0200
                Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-08-29 14:30 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-08-29 12:20 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 12:20 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-08-29 18:00 +0200
            Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-29 18:30 +0200
              Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-08-29 21:50 +0200
            Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-08-29 21:40 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-29 18:00 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Francesco Porro <frapox@yahoo.it> - 2018-08-29 15:50 +0200
      Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-29 17:50 +0200
        Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 18:10 +0200
          Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-29 18:40 +0200
            Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 18:50 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-08-29 13:00 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Francesco Porro <frapox@yahoo.it> - 2018-08-29 15:50 +0200
    RE: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Edwin Pers <EPers@ansencorp.com> - 2018-09-19 15:10 +0200
    Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> - 2018-09-19 16:00 +0200

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#199506 — [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

Ciao,

As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

I mean, somethihng that has a good Imap server, good enough to be
accessed by a MUA like Thunderbird without issues, and good spam filter
which won't bother me with false-positives?.

Now, i'm using a free account on yahoo, as you can see, but I get some
of email bounces and moreover spam filters are really awful: they mark
as spam a lot of non-spam, genuine mails coming from i.e. the
Gnome/Evolution mailing list. Some months ago I was subscribed on my
primary account which is a Gmail one, but then I wanted to separate
mailing lists from the rest (so I moved those to yahoo).

What do you think about GMX?? Is it a good solution for that purpose?
I've already one signed up so i'd would be trivial to set this apart and
move to the @gmx.com one.

Thank you!

-- 
fp

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#199507

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On 28/08/2018 17:12, Francesco Porro wrote:
> Ciao,
>
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

I cannot personally recommend any free, proprietary email service providers.

Instead I'd say that running your own mail server would be best for
this, assuming you have some kind of always-on connection with a static
IP you can utilise.

Although incoming spam is a potential problem the real difficulties with
running your own mail server in my opinion are (a) maintaining
deliverability of outgoing mail and (b) making sure you're not relaying
spam. Keeping software and configuration up to date is important.
However, in the sort of scenario you describe, you might not need to use
your mail server for outgoing mail which could simplify things. Ideally
you could use your ISP's or domain provider's mail server for outgoing
mail whilst directing incoming mail for your domain to your own server.
(I should add that using your own domain is always wise, rather than
relying on service providers' email addresses).

Learning how to do all this could involve a learning curve but it's
entirely feasible.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

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#199508

Francesco Porro wrote:
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

Mark writes:
> I cannot personally recommend any free, proprietary email service
> providers.

I can personally recommend a paid email service: newsguy.com.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#199509

Il 28/08/2018 18:25, Mark Rousell ha scritto:
> Instead I'd say that running your own mail server would be best for this

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I dont't want to run a mail server by
myself.

Il 28/08/2018 18:39, John Hasler ha scritto:
> I can personally recommend a paid email service: newsguy.com.

Only *free* mail services, please.

Thanx.

-- 
fp

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#199535

Francesco Porro <frapox@yahoo.it> writes:

> Sorry, I forgot to mention that I dont't want to run a mail server by
> myself.
>
> Only *free* mail services, please.

In that case, I recommend against all such services.

The cost of running a mail server that anyone can join for no fee,
practically requires that the operators must make lots of money
exploiting the email users.

So your options are:

* Pay for the valuable service of running an email system, with you as
  the customer, and with a direct interest in not screwing you over.

* Find someone you trust to never screw you over (maybe this is
  yourself), and get that person to put in lots of time and expertise
  operating a mail system indefinitely for you.

* Use a zero-fee email service that is practically guaranteed to exploit
  its users in many ways.

I strongly recommend against the third option.

-- 
 \          “I got an answering machine for my phone. Now when someone |
  `\      calls me up and I'm not home, they get a recording of a busy |
_o__)                                          signal.” —Steven Wright |
Ben Finney

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#199513

I would suggest looking for somebody who runs Sympa.

Open source, well supported, more "industrial strength" than Mailman 
(designed for universities, supporting lots of lists).

I've been running it on our servers, for at least a decade (who's 
counting) - it's rock solid, well supported by both a core team (at 
Renater - the French Research & Education Network), and a larger 
community.  (For example, a patch for DMARC came out almost 
immediately.  It took a lot longer for a mailman patch to show up, and 
even longer for it to make into the standard release).  Also, Sympa is 
built around a database, mailman isn't - makes a difference for folks 
running multiple lists.  Lots more things that can be customized.

There's a list of hosting providers at 
https://www.sympa.org/users/custom - but they're mostly in France.  You 
might have to do a little hunting - or post on the sympa users list.

There's also Groupserver (http://groupserver.org) - a rather interesting 
package that does a good job of melding traditional lists, with a 
web-based forum interface.  It's open source, with hosting available - 
from a small group in New Zealand.  It has a bit of traction in the 
"electronic democracy" community.

Miles Fidelman


On 8/28/18 12:25 PM, Mark Rousell wrote:
> On 28/08/2018 17:12, Francesco Porro wrote:
>> Ciao,
>>
>> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
>> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?
>
> I cannot personally recommend any free, proprietary email service 
> providers.
>
> Instead I'd say that running your own mail server would be best for 
> this, assuming you have some kind of always-on connection with a 
> static IP you can utilise.
>
> Although incoming spam is a potential problem the real difficulties 
> with running your own mail server in my opinion are (a) maintaining 
> deliverability of outgoing mail and (b) making sure you're not 
> relaying spam. Keeping software and configuration up to date is 
> important. However, in the sort of scenario you describe, you might 
> not need to use your mail server for outgoing mail which could 
> simplify things. Ideally you could use your ISP's or domain provider's 
> mail server for outgoing mail whilst directing incoming mail for your 
> domain to your own server. (I should add that using your own domain is 
> always wise, rather than relying on service providers' email addresses).
>
> Learning how to do all this could involve a learning curve but it's 
> entirely feasible.
>
> -- 
> Mark Rousell
>   
>   
>   

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

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#199520

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On 28/08/2018 19:08, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> I would suggest looking for somebody who runs Sympa.
>
> Open source, well supported, more "industrial strength" than Mailman
> (designed for universities, supporting lots of lists).
>
> I've been running it on our servers, for at least a decade (who's
> counting) - it's rock solid, well supported by both a core team (at
> Renater - the French Research & Education Network), and a larger
> community.  (For example, a patch for DMARC came out almost
> immediately.  It took a lot longer for a mailman patch to show up, and
> even longer for it to make into the standard release).  Also, Sympa is
> built around a database, mailman isn't - makes a difference for folks
> running multiple lists.  Lots more things that can be customized.
>
> There's a list of hosting providers at
> https://www.sympa.org/users/custom - but they're mostly in France. 
> You might have to do a little hunting - or post on the sympa users list.
>
> There's also Groupserver (http://groupserver.org) - a rather
> interesting package that does a good job of melding traditional lists,
> with a web-based forum interface.  It's open source, with hosting
> available - from a small group in New Zealand.  It has a bit of
> traction in the "electronic democracy" community.

If I understand correctly, I think that Francesco was asking for a good
(free) email service provider at which he could receive emails from mail
lists, rather than a mail list provider.

Nevertheless, thanks for your mail list software suggestions. I've heard
of Sympa but never seen them described in the manner you did here. And I
am sorry to say that I had never heard of GroupServer before. Thanks for
the useful information.


-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

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#199527

Am Dienstag, 28. August 2018 schrieb Francesco Porro:
> Ciao,
>
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?
>
> I mean, somethihng that has a good Imap server, good enough to be
> accessed by a MUA like Thunderbird without issues, and good spam filter
> which won't bother me with false-positives?.
>
> Now, i'm using a free account on yahoo, as you can see, but I get some
> of email bounces and moreover spam filters are really awful: they mark
> as spam a lot of non-spam, genuine mails coming from i.e. the
> Gnome/Evolution mailing list. Some months ago I was subscribed on my
> primary account which is a Gmail one, but then I wanted to separate
> mailing lists from the rest (so I moved those to yahoo).
>
> What do you think about GMX?? Is it a good solution for that purpose?
> I've already one signed up so i'd would be trivial to set this apart and
> move to the @gmx.com one.
>
> Thank you!

Hi Francesco,

I'm on gmx.net since long and they frequently give me false positives even with 
addresses which I've been receiving for years or seemingly random messages from 
this or other mailing lists. Everytime I see those in the daily spam report I 
have to log in via their website interface to free them out of the spam folder 
to be able to download them with my precious email client. I've recently 
started to think this provider *wants* me to have to log in and use the website 
with all the horrible ads and articles... and so have been considering, as 
recommended by John Hasler, to switch to a paid email service provider, which 
I'm gonna do soon.

My two cents...

Kind regards,
Stefan

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#199528

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On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 22:23:46 +0200
Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> wrote:

Hello Stefan,

>have to log in via their website interface to free them out of the spam
>folder to be able to download them with my precious email client. I've

Is it not possible to whitelist the addresses?

>recently started to think this provider *wants* me to have to log in
>and use the website 

Of course they do.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Everything in life should be free, except the bits that belong to me
Selfish Rubbish - Public Image Ltd

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#199529

Am Dienstag, 28. August 2018 schrieb Brad Rogers:
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 22:23:46 +0200
> Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> wrote:

> >have to log in via their website interface to free them out of the spam
> >folder to be able to download them with my precious email client. I've
>
> Is it not possible to whitelist the addresses?

Yes, it is, and being done automatically when you move mails out of the spam 
folder, I think, it's just always another sender which gets sorted out as spam. 
I never saw this happening until about a year ago or so. They probably changed 
their configuration or policy of treating free mail accounts, I think.

Cheers!

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#199531

On Tue, 2018-08-28 at 21:33 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 22:23:46 +0200
> Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> wrote:
> 
> Hello Stefan,
> 
> > have to log in via their website interface to free them out of the
> > spam
> > folder to be able to download them with my precious email client.
> > I've
> 
That's the fault of your email client or methodology, rather than GMX.
Mine has the spam folder available on the client where they can be
viewed, moved or deleted - Evolution/IMAP

> Is it not possible to whitelist the addresses?
> 
> > recently started to think this provider *wants* me to have to log
> > in
> > and use the website 
> 
> Of course they do.
> 
I've only had to log in once this year and that was for an upload into
my music folder. While I'm sure they would love you to log in and see
the 'adds' they provide, they never _require_ me to do so.

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#199532

Am Mittwoch, 29. August 2018 schrieb Dominic Knight:
> > > have to log in via their website interface to free them out of the
> > > spam
> > > folder to be able to download them with my precious email client.
> > > I've
>
> That's the fault of your email client or methodology, rather than GMX.
> Mine has the spam folder available on the client where they can be
> viewed, moved or deleted - Evolution/IMAP

Right, I could configure my client to use IMAP.

Thanks,
Stefan

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#199543

On 2018-08-28 17:12, Francesco Porro wrote:
> Ciao,
> 
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for 
> you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?
<>
I'm not knowledge enough to have my own email server advertising its 
presence or host my own domain because it seems like too much work when 
other people will do it for a few quid a year or for free.
I have dovecot, roundcube, sieve, exim, getmail on a PC locally and use 
my Internet service provider's SMTP.
Seems to work OK.
If it's anything important I write a letter.

mick

-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#199544

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Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Francesco Porro wrote:
> Ciao,
> 
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

As many others have pointed out in this thread, "free" (I think you mean
"no money" aka "cheap") and "best" somehow are in conflict.

If you're not paying money, they are monetizing you in some other way.
This is the sad reality of today's society (not that there aren't people
fighting to change that, mind you).

My recommendation over here in Germany (which should be as accessible
to you as an Italian, but perhaps there are equivalent Italian offers,
which I'd tend to support, were I you)

  - posteo.de
  - mailbox.org

Each of them cost you 1 EUR/month, which is less than 1 Espresso/month.
Worth every cent, IMHO.

We get what we pay for. Short term (obvious) and long term (less
obvious): those small companies would cease to exist if everyone
took the "cheap way out".

Cheers
- -- tomás
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#199545

On 2018-08-29 09:34, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Francesco Porro wrote:
>> Ciao,
>> 
>> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for 
>> you:
>> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?
> 
> As many others have pointed out in this thread, "free" (I think you 
> mean
> "no money" aka "cheap") and "best" somehow are in conflict.
> 
> If you're not paying money, they are monetizing you in some other way.
> This is the sad reality of today's society (not that there aren't 
> people
> fighting to change that, mind you).
> 
> My recommendation over here in Germany (which should be as accessible
> to you as an Italian, but perhaps there are equivalent Italian offers,
> which I'd tend to support, were I you)
> 
>   - posteo.de
>   - mailbox.org
> 
> Each of them cost you 1 EUR/month, which is less than 1 Espresso/month.
> Worth every cent, IMHO.
> 
> We get what we pay for. Short term (obvious) and long term (less
> obvious): those small companies would cease to exist if everyone
> took the "cheap way out".

But surely email will stop working after Brexit ?

mick

-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#199546

On Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 09:49, mick crane wrote:
> But surely email will stop working after Brexit ?

Maybe, maybe not, but you can get that UK residents will lose any data
protection they may currently have.
-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50 & org 9.1.13 on Debian buster/sid

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#199549

On 2018-08-29 10:00, Eric S Fraga wrote:
> On Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 09:49, mick crane wrote:
>> But surely email will stop working after Brexit ?
> 
> Maybe, maybe not, but you can get that UK residents will lose any data
> protection they may currently have.

I'm a bit fed up with that stupid cookie notification I have to close on 
every website anyway.

mick
-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#199550

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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:05:21AM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> On 2018-08-29 10:00, Eric S Fraga wrote:
> >On Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 09:49, mick crane wrote:
> >>But surely email will stop working after Brexit ?
> >
> >Maybe, maybe not, but you can get that UK residents will lose any data
> >protection they may currently have.
> 
> I'm a bit fed up with that stupid cookie notification I have to
> close on every website anyway.

Disable javascript in your browser: most cookie notifications (and other
obnoxious things) *poof!* disappear as if by magic.

(Ah, and I disable cookies for most purposes anyway).

Some websites disappear in a black (sometimes white) hole. But sometimes,
it's better to not see some things, anyway. We're entering an era of
attention economy. May those sites go broke, as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers
- -- t
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#199562

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:05:21 +0100
mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello mick,

>I'm a bit fed up with that stupid cookie notification I have to close
>on every website anyway.

If you use Firefox, install "I don't care about cookies", which disables
those warnings on most sites.  If the warning /isn't/ disabled, there's
an option to submit a report, so that the website can be checked and an
existing rule can be improved or a new rule added to cover it.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
I'm not here for your entertainment
U & Ur Hand - P!nk

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#199564

On 2018-08-29 12:09, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:05:21 +0100
> mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello mick,
> 
>> I'm a bit fed up with that stupid cookie notification I have to close
>> on every website anyway.
> 
> If you use Firefox, install "I don't care about cookies", which 
> disables
> those warnings on most sites.  If the warning /isn't/ disabled, there's
> an option to submit a report, so that the website can be checked and an
> existing rule can be improved or a new rule added to cover it.

I use Brave browser mostly with handy shields option.
Some of these media sites have like 80 trackers and wotnot which is just 
daft.

mick
-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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