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New `no sound' problems

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  New `no sound' problems Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 10:00 +0200
    Re: New `no sound' problems Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 12:50 +0200
      Re: New `no sound' problems Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2018-08-07 13:30 +0200
        Re: New `no sound' problems Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 14:20 +0200
    Re: New `no sound' problems deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:20 +0200
      Re: New `no sound' problems Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 14:10 +0200
        Re: New `no sound' problems Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-08-07 14:20 +0200
          Re: New `no sound' problems deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 00:20 +0200
            Re: New `no sound' problems Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-08-08 10:40 +0200
              Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems) Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 13:20 +0200
                Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-08-08 21:40 +0200
                  Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 08:20 +0200
                    Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-08-09 11:20 +0200
                      Re: Using Sid Nemeth Gyorgy <friczy@freemail.hu> - 2018-08-09 11:30 +0200
                        Re: Using Sid Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-08-09 12:00 +0200
                          Re: Using Sid deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 13:20 +0200
                      Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 13:20 +0200
                        Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems) Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 15:00 +0200
                          Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2018-08-09 20:10 +0200
                      Re: Using Sid - sound prob Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 21:00 +0200
    [solved?] Re: New `no sound' problems Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 19:50 +0200
      Re: [solved?] Re: New `no sound' problems deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 00:20 +0200
        Re: [solved?] Re: New `no sound' problems Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-09-04 23:00 +0200
          Re: [solved?] Re: New `no sound' problems deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-05 00:10 +0200
    Re: New `no sound' problems deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-08-12 19:30 +0200
      Re: New `no sound' problems Anders Andersson <pipatron@gmail.com> - 2018-08-12 20:40 +0200

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#198343 — New `no sound' problems

It seems to be damned recursive, the problem...  After yesterday's full-upgrade
in Sid, my old Acer One without sound once again...  Everything seems all
right: alsamixer, aumix, pulseaudio installed...  Last time this happened, it
was solved installing pulseaudio and alsaplayer-alsa...  Now it won't...
Please help.

Thanks in advance,

Rodolfo

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#198357

Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> writes:

> It seems to be damned recursive, the problem...  After yesterday's
> full-upgrade in Sid, my old Acer One without sound once again...  Everything
> seems all right: alsamixer, aumix, pulseaudio installed...  Last time this
> happened, it was solved installing pulseaudio and alsaplayer-alsa...  Now it
> won't...  Please help.


Also mplayer's output seems all right:

$ playfile timmy_thomas08-opportunity.wav 
MPlayer 1.3.0 (Debian), built with gcc-7 (C) 2000-2016 MPlayer Team
do_connect: could not connect to socket
connect: No such file or directory
Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.

Playing timmy_thomas08-opportunity.wav.
libavformat version 58.12.100 (external)
libavformat file format detected.
[lavf] stream 0: audio (pcm_s16le), -aid 0
Clip info:
 artist: Timmy Thomas
 comment: source: spotify
 genre: blues
 title: timmy_thomas08-opportunity
 album: Why can't we live together
 encoder: Lavf57.71.100
Load subtitles in ./
==========================================================================
Opening audio decoder: [pcm] Uncompressed PCM audio decoder
AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 1411.2 kbit/100.00% (ratio: 176400->176400)
Selected audio codec: [pcm] afm: pcm (Uncompressed PCM)
==========================================================================
AO: [alsa] 44100Hz 2ch s16le (2 bytes per sample)
Video: no video
Starting playback...
A:   0.0 (00.0) of 189.0 (03:09.0) ??,?% 


but no sound at all.

Rodolfo

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#198367

On Tue, 7 Aug 2018, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 06:40:49
> From: Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: New `no sound' problems
> Resent-Date: Tue,  7 Aug 2018 10:41:15 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > It seems to be damned recursive, the problem...  After yesterday's
> > full-upgrade in Sid, my old Acer One without sound once again...  Everything
> > seems all right: alsamixer, aumix, pulseaudio installed...  Last time this
> > happened, it was solved installing pulseaudio and alsaplayer-alsa...  Now it
> > won't...  Please help.
>
>
> Also mplayer's output seems all right:
>
> $ playfile timmy_thomas08-opportunity.wav
> MPlayer 1.3.0 (Debian), built with gcc-7 (C) 2000-2016 MPlayer Team
> do_connect: could not connect to socket
> connect: No such file or directory
> Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.
>
> Playing timmy_thomas08-opportunity.wav.
> libavformat version 58.12.100 (external)
> libavformat file format detected.
> [lavf] stream 0: audio (pcm_s16le), -aid 0
> Clip info:
>  artist: Timmy Thomas
>  comment: source: spotify
>  genre: blues
>  title: timmy_thomas08-opportunity
>  album: Why can't we live together
>  encoder: Lavf57.71.100
> Load subtitles in ./
> ==========================================================================
> Opening audio decoder: [pcm] Uncompressed PCM audio decoder
> AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 1411.2 kbit/100.00% (ratio: 176400->176400)
> Selected audio codec: [pcm] afm: pcm (Uncompressed PCM)
> ==========================================================================
> AO: [alsa] 44100Hz 2ch s16le (2 bytes per sample)
> Video: no video
> Starting playback...
> A:   0.0 (00.0) of 189.0 (03:09.0) ??,?%
>
>
> but no sound at all.
>
> Rodolfo
>
Does speakertest produce any static?  I'm thinking speakertest could do
with an enhancement which would help anyone without sound tremendously.
Specifically, don't ask for sound card and device on command line at all
and cycle through everything it can find using aplay -l output.  Have
speakertest play something other than static and put a question up on the
screen after each device is tried asking the user if they can hear the
sample sound.  Once a positive response is gotten, print out on the
screen the card and device and ask the user if they'd like those stored
and a positive response would then run alsactl store.   Pulseaudio is
another problem level and has worked so poorly in the past at times here
I'm not really sure how to improve that.

>

--

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#198382

Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:

> On Tue, 7 Aug 2018, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>
>> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 06:40:49
>> From: Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com>
>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>> Subject: Re: New `no sound' problems
>> Resent-Date: Tue,  7 Aug 2018 10:41:15 +0000 (UTC)
>> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>
>> Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > It seems to be damned recursive, the problem...  After yesterday's
>> > full-upgrade in Sid, my old Acer One without sound once again...
>> > Everything seems all right: alsamixer, aumix, pulseaudio installed...
>> > Last time this happened, it was solved installing pulseaudio and
>> > alsaplayer-alsa...  Now it won't...  Please help.
>>
>>
>> Also mplayer's output seems all right:
>>
>> $ playfile timmy_thomas08-opportunity.wav
>> MPlayer 1.3.0 (Debian), built with gcc-7 (C) 2000-2016 MPlayer Team
>> do_connect: could not connect to socket
>> connect: No such file or directory
>> Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.
>>
>> Playing timmy_thomas08-opportunity.wav.
>> libavformat version 58.12.100 (external)
>> libavformat file format detected.
>> [lavf] stream 0: audio (pcm_s16le), -aid 0
>> Clip info:
>>  artist: Timmy Thomas
>>  comment: source: spotify
>>  genre: blues
>>  title: timmy_thomas08-opportunity
>>  album: Why can't we live together
>>  encoder: Lavf57.71.100
>> Load subtitles in ./
>> ==========================================================================
>> Opening audio decoder: [pcm] Uncompressed PCM audio decoder
>> AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 1411.2 kbit/100.00% (ratio: 176400->176400)
>> Selected audio codec: [pcm] afm: pcm (Uncompressed PCM)
>> ==========================================================================
>> AO: [alsa] 44100Hz 2ch s16le (2 bytes per sample)
>> Video: no video
>> Starting playback...
>> A:   0.0 (00.0) of 189.0 (03:09.0) ??,?%
>>
>>
>> but no sound at all.
>>
>> Rodolfo
>>
> Does speakertest produce any static?  I'm thinking speakertest could do
> with an enhancement which would help anyone without sound tremendously.
> Specifically, don't ask for sound card and device on command line at all
> and cycle through everything it can find using aplay -l output.  Have
> speakertest play something other than static and put a question up on the
> screen after each device is tried asking the user if they can hear the
> sample sound.  Once a positive response is gotten, print out on the
> screen the card and device and ask the user if they'd like those stored
> and a positive response would then run alsactl store.   Pulseaudio is
> another problem level and has worked so poorly in the past at times here
> I'm not really sure how to improve that.


This is speaker-test output:

$ speaker-test

speaker-test 1.1.6

Playback device is default
Stream parameters are 48000Hz, S16_LE, 1 channels
Using 16 octaves of pink noise
Rate set to 48000Hz (requested 48000Hz)
Buffer size range from 192 to 2097152
Period size range from 64 to 699051
Using max buffer size 2097152
Periods = 4
was set period_size = 524288
was set buffer_size = 2097152
 0 - Front Left
Time per period = 12.491143
 0 - Front Left
Time per period = 12.489111
 0 - Front Left
Time per period = 12.490776
 0 - Front Left
Time per period = 12.490342
 0 - Front Left
Time per period = 12.488501
 0 - Front Left

What then...?

Thanks,

Rodolfo

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#198365

Rodolfo Medina wrote:

> After yesterday's full-upgrade
> in Sid

well this is self explaining -> Sid

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#198378

deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> writes:

> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>
>> After yesterday's full-upgrade
>> in Sid
>
> well this is self explaining -> Sid


What please do you mean...?

Rodolfo

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#198383

On 2018-08-07, Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> wrote:
> deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>>
>>> After yesterday's full-upgrade
>>> in Sid
>>
>> well this is self explaining -> Sid

He means it's self-explanatory given you're using testing and when using testing shit
happens (things break). It goes with the territory and is in the nature
of the beast you've chosen to tame (or wrangle with).

That's my interpretation anyway.

>
> What please do you mean...?
>
> Rodolfo
>
>


-- 
Some years ago, when the images which this world affords first opened upon me,
when I felt the cheering warmth of summer and heard the rustling of the leaves
and the warbling of the birds, and these were all to me, I should have wept to
die; now it is my only consolation. --Mary Shelley, Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus

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#198438

Curt wrote:

> He means it's self-explanatory given you're using testing and when using
> testing shit happens (things break)

its not even testing it is sid - as far as I know it is after testing and
there even more shit happens, so I don't understand why he/she should
bother us or we should bother answering.
This definitely is not a user query but rather something that goes to
package/support etc.

For example I play with newer kernels from time to time and last time I
compiled/installed 4.16 it broke sound - I was seeing the devices twice in
all mixers - so I stayed on 4.15 for a while. I now compiled 4.17
(yesterday) and all works just fine.

Sid may work today but not tomorrow - this is the purpose of sid and if you
are not debuggin/testing for debian, I am not sure you want to run anything
on sid 

regards

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#198449

On 2018-08-07, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
> Curt wrote:
>
>> He means it's self-explanatory given you're using testing and when using
>> testing shit happens (things break)
>
> its not even testing it is sid - as far as I know it is after testing and
> there even more shit happens, so I don't understand why he/she should
> bother us or we should bother answering.
> This definitely is not a user query but rather something that goes to
> package/support etc.

Right, sorry, Sid is unstable not testing, which is even more "self-explanatory."

> For example I play with newer kernels from time to time and last time I
> compiled/installed 4.16 it broke sound - I was seeing the devices twice in
> all mixers - so I stayed on 4.15 for a while. I now compiled 4.17
> (yesterday) and all works just fine.
>
> Sid may work today but not tomorrow - this is the purpose of sid and if you
> are not debuggin/testing for debian, I am not sure you want to run anything
> on sid 
>
> regards
>
>
>


-- 
‘If I can’t have long hair or any fun, I can have a cat.’ 
Ernest Hemingway, “Cat in the Rain”

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#198450 — Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems)

Curt <curty@free.fr> writes:

> On 2018-08-07, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Curt wrote:
>>
>>> He means it's self-explanatory given you're using testing and when using
>>> testing shit happens (things break)
>>
>> its not even testing it is sid - as far as I know it is after testing and
>> there even more shit happens, so I don't understand why he/she should
>> bother us or we should bother answering.
>> This definitely is not a user query but rather something that goes to
>> package/support etc.
>
> Right, sorry, Sid is unstable not testing, which is even more
> "self-explanatory."


deloptes, Curt, I understand what you say so that I'm considering downgrading
to Stable.  Nevertheless, I'm not sure that the debian-user list should not
discuss problems arising from the use of Sid.  After all, my recent experience
with Sid and two problems coming up: `no sound' and `su/sudo', gave birth and
occasion for an interesting discussion with a lot of passionate users taking
part to it (the `su/sudo' one).  Discussions that turn to be useful and
clarifying also for Stable of course.  Secondarily, what is important I think
to point out is the fact that I've been using Sid for may years now - I that am
not expert at all - and, after all, the problems that I've had using Sid were
of minor issue.  Consider for example these two latest: the `no sound' problem
were easily solved simply removing pulseaudio, and the `su/sudo' one was just a
matter of doing, since now on, `su -' in place of `su': not a big one.

Thanks, cheers, 

Rodolfo

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#198454 — Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems)

On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 13:13:32 +0200
Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> wrote:

> Curt <curty@free.fr> writes:
> 
> > On 2018-08-07, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:  
> >> Curt wrote:
> >>  
> >>> He means it's self-explanatory given you're using testing and
> >>> when using testing shit happens (things break)  
> >>
> >> its not even testing it is sid - as far as I know it is after
> >> testing and there even more shit happens, so I don't understand
> >> why he/she should bother us or we should bother answering.
> >> This definitely is not a user query but rather something that goes
> >> to package/support etc.  
> >
> > Right, sorry, Sid is unstable not testing, which is even more
> > "self-explanatory."  
> 
> 
> deloptes, Curt, I understand what you say so that I'm considering
> downgrading to Stable.  Nevertheless, I'm not sure that the
> debian-user list should not discuss problems arising from the use of
> Sid.  After all, my recent experience with Sid and two problems
> coming up: `no sound' and `su/sudo', gave birth and occasion for an
> interesting discussion with a lot of passionate users taking part to
> it (the `su/sudo' one).  Discussions that turn to be useful and
> clarifying also for Stable of course.  Secondarily, what is important
> I think to point out is the fact that I've been using Sid for may
> years now - I that am not expert at all - and, after all, the
> problems that I've had using Sid were of minor issue.  Consider for
> example these two latest: the `no sound' problem were easily solved
> simply removing pulseaudio, and the `su/sudo' one was just a matter
> of doing, since now on, `su -' in place of `su': not a big one.
> 
Yes, there's no suggestion that this list is 'stable-only', just that
sid users should expect a certain amount of trouble. 

Having said that, I don't think I've had more sound problems with my
sid workstations than with my stable server. Sound is generally a pig
on Linux, as the software base seems to change every few years, and
until recently, multiple sound cards had the same problem as multiple
NICs in that the OS couldn't seem to identify them reliably. I've
solved most of my sound problems by getting brutal and actually ripping
out and blacklisting drivers for the sound devices I'm not using.
Nothing less seemed to permanently solve the identity crisis.

-- 
Joe

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#198461 — Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems)

Joe wrote:

> Having said that, I don't think I've had more sound problems with my
> sid workstations than with my stable server. Sound is generally a pig
> on Linux, as the software base seems to change every few years, and
> until recently, multiple sound cards had the same problem as multiple
> NICs in that the OS couldn't seem to identify them reliably. I've
> solved most of my sound problems by getting brutal and actually ripping
> out and blacklisting drivers for the sound devices I'm not using.
> Nothing less seemed to permanently solve the identity crisis.

Hi,
for my workstation (I want to turn it on and just work), I use stable. For
my server(s) the same. IMO Sid belongs in a VM for playing arround.
If you want to be one step ahead of time, try testing it is usually stable.

If you don't read/write code, I don't see why someone would use unstable. As
I mentioned ubuntu is much better to take in such a case (Not a developer,
but want to be ahead of debian time)

Regarding the sound - I never had a problem in the past 12+ years. Why?
Because I did configure the system properly and I use stable. So instead
of "getting brutal" you could setup your system properly and forget about
the issues.

One bad thing that people do is the install things on the production system
just to try them out. Take a second system - or a second drive - or a
second installation on the same driver. Test there and move to the working
environment, when you are sure it works.
With other works make backups before doing something on your production
system.

regards

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#198467 — Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems)

On Thu, 09 Aug 2018 08:14:44 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

> Joe wrote:
> 
> > Having said that, I don't think I've had more sound problems with my
> > sid workstations than with my stable server. Sound is generally a
> > pig on Linux, as the software base seems to change every few years,
> > and until recently, multiple sound cards had the same problem as
> > multiple NICs in that the OS couldn't seem to identify them
> > reliably. I've solved most of my sound problems by getting brutal
> > and actually ripping out and blacklisting drivers for the sound
> > devices I'm not using. Nothing less seemed to permanently solve the
> > identity crisis.  
> 
> Hi,
> for my workstation (I want to turn it on and just work), I use
> stable. For my server(s) the same. IMO Sid belongs in a VM for
> playing arround. If you want to be one step ahead of time, try
> testing it is usually stable.

Outside the release freeze, testing is only a little more stable than
unstable, and gets fixes later. In the long term, there's not a lot to
choose.
> 
> If you don't read/write code, I don't see why someone would use
> unstable. As I mentioned ubuntu is much better to take in such a case
> (Not a developer, but want to be ahead of debian time)

Because there are a few applications still under development, they are
seriously buggy and continuously increasing in features. Even a few
weeks can make a big difference in functionality. I'm looking at you,
libreoffice, libreCAD, geda PCB, etc...

And since I'm not a professional developer, unstable is the practical
way to donate to Debian, in the form of bug reports. All the work has
already been done in stable.

> 
> Regarding the sound - I never had a problem in the past 12+ years.

You are fortunate. I went though a period where the assignments for
sound card 0 and 1 would randomly flip, every few weeks or months. I
didn't find whatever magical incantation would prevent this, if it
existed.

If you look up sound problems in conjunction with Linux, the wealth of
results you get will tell you how it has been. Because it has happened
over such a long period of time, almost all of what you find will be
obsolete and completely worthless, which makes fixing the problems so
frustrating.

> Why? Because I did configure the system properly and I use stable. So
> instead of "getting brutal" you could setup your system properly and
> forget about the issues.

"Properly", eh? You mean spending a few days messing around with those
intuitive udev naming rules? Why should that be necessary? Surely,
running a *sound* utility *once*, and telling it which sound card I want
to use should be sufficient? Why should I need to mess around with
system stuff in order to choose my sound card and prevent it toggling
my choice now and then? That kind of stuff should happen automatically
at installation time, once and for all. Possibly it does, now.

> 
> One bad thing that people do is the install things on the production
> system just to try them out. Take a second system - or a second drive
> - or a second installation on the same driver. Test there and move to
> the working environment, when you are sure it works.
> With other works make backups before doing something on your
> production system.

Yes, it would be nice to have batches of identical computers, and
nothing to do all day but mess about with them... this isn't a
commercial system, and I have neither the time nor the money to treat
it as one. I'm a computer *user*.

-- 
Joe

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#198468 — Re: Using Sid

2018-08-09 11:10 keltezéssel, Joe írta:
> You are fortunate. I went though a period where the assignments for
> sound card 0 and 1 would randomly flip, every few weeks or months. I
> didn't find whatever magical incantation would prevent this, if it
> existed.

module alias can help. I suppose the cards are different types and so
for example:

alias snd-card-0 snd-hda-intel
... and so on.

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#198470 — Re: Using Sid

On Thu, 9 Aug 2018 11:24:18 +0200
Nemeth Gyorgy <friczy@freemail.hu> wrote:

> 2018-08-09 11:10 keltezéssel, Joe írta:
> > You are fortunate. I went though a period where the assignments for
> > sound card 0 and 1 would randomly flip, every few weeks or months. I
> > didn't find whatever magical incantation would prevent this, if it
> > existed.  
> 
> module alias can help. I suppose the cards are different types and so
> for example:
> 
> alias snd-card-0 snd-hda-intel
> ... and so on.
> 

It's a dim memory now, but I've certainly been there and done that.

There's an indirection somewhere else that wasn't stable. It's probably
ancient history now.

-- 
Joe

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#198473 — Re: Using Sid

Joe wrote:

> It's a dim memory now, but I've certainly been there and done that.
> 
> There's an indirection somewhere else that wasn't stable. It's probably
> ancient history now.

no it is not ancient history but it improved and still in some cases you
need to put index value. I guess you did not do the right thing, because
the right thing is to tell the driver index=0 or index=1
Anyway - frustration is what you are looking for and frustration is what you
get.

regards

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#198472 — Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems)

Joe wrote:

> On Thu, 09 Aug 2018 08:14:44 +0200
> deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Joe wrote:
>> 
>> > Having said that, I don't think I've had more sound problems with my
>> > sid workstations than with my stable server. Sound is generally a
>> > pig on Linux, as the software base seems to change every few years,
>> > and until recently, multiple sound cards had the same problem as
>> > multiple NICs in that the OS couldn't seem to identify them
>> > reliably. I've solved most of my sound problems by getting brutal
>> > and actually ripping out and blacklisting drivers for the sound
>> > devices I'm not using. Nothing less seemed to permanently solve the
>> > identity crisis.
>> 
>> Hi,
>> for my workstation (I want to turn it on and just work), I use
>> stable. For my server(s) the same. IMO Sid belongs in a VM for
>> playing arround. If you want to be one step ahead of time, try
>> testing it is usually stable.
> 
> Outside the release freeze, testing is only a little more stable than
> unstable, and gets fixes later. In the long term, there's not a lot to
> choose.

don't think so because after unstable iteration, the fixes usually work
intesting.

>> 
>> If you don't read/write code, I don't see why someone would use
>> unstable. As I mentioned ubuntu is much better to take in such a case
>> (Not a developer, but want to be ahead of debian time)
> 
> Because there are a few applications still under development, they are
> seriously buggy and continuously increasing in features. Even a few
> weeks can make a big difference in functionality. I'm looking at you,
> libreoffice, libreCAD, geda PCB, etc...
> 

This hasn't change much in the past 10 years - neither in stable nor in
testing


> And since I'm not a professional developer, unstable is the practical
> way to donate to Debian, in the form of bug reports. All the work has
> already been done in stable.
> 

Well, I said - in VM ware. I would not relay on it for daily use.

>> 
>> Regarding the sound - I never had a problem in the past 12+ years.
> 
> You are fortunate. I went though a period where the assignments for
> sound card 0 and 1 would randomly flip, every few weeks or months. I
> didn't find whatever magical incantation would prevent this, if it
> existed.
> 

I put index in the driver setup looooong time ago - never had an issue - you
don't need to mess up with udev rules - see there are intelligent hack and
not so intelligent. One should learn to find and use the intelligent one.

> If you look up sound problems in conjunction with Linux, the wealth of
> results you get will tell you how it has been. Because it has happened
> over such a long period of time, almost all of what you find will be
> obsolete and completely worthless, which makes fixing the problems so
> frustrating.
> 

well - identify intelligent resolutions and apply - no problem - but is
challenging - there are so many "experts" posting arround

>> Why? Because I did configure the system properly and I use stable. So
>> instead of "getting brutal" you could setup your system properly and
>> forget about the issues.
> 
> "Properly", eh? You mean spending a few days messing around with those
> intuitive udev naming rules? Why should that be necessary? Surely,
> running a *sound* utility *once*, and telling it which sound card I want
> to use should be sufficient? Why should I need to mess around with
> system stuff in order to choose my sound card and prevent it toggling
> my choice now and then? That kind of stuff should happen automatically
> at installation time, once and for all. Possibly it does, now.
> 

Not at all - I spent few days understanding how it works and applying proper
setup. One of my problems was and is still in some extend - bluetooth with
pulseaudio. I want be able to play music from phone to PC.
I ended up compiling pulseaudio and the latest release 11.99 pre seomthing
managed to solve allthe issues, so guess when I update PA next time ... you
can not guess - I will never remove this until there is something much
better - means I have a working setup and the source for this in my
control. It is not likely it will stop working soon.

>> 
>> One bad thing that people do is the install things on the production
>> system just to try them out. Take a second system - or a second drive
>> - or a second installation on the same driver. Test there and move to
>> the working environment, when you are sure it works.
>> With other works make backups before doing something on your
>> production system.
> 
> Yes, it would be nice to have batches of identical computers, and
> nothing to do all day but mess about with them... this isn't a
> commercial system, and I have neither the time nor the money to treat
> it as one. I'm a computer *user*.

You just mentioned above you want to contribute to debian and this is why
you take unstable - now contradicting yourself.
Look I met guys like you. I just wanted to give you good advice. Accept it
or not is your choice, but using deliberately Sid and complaining of having
issues (again) is simply not fair in the context of what you are doing -
especially on the user list. Also taken into account you are not a
developer, it means you can not even debug something - so do me a favor and
install testing. GEda and Libre will be better then in Sid and you will
reduce your frustration a lot.

regards

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#198475 — Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems)

On 8/9/18, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
> Joe wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 09 Aug 2018 08:14:44 +0200
>> deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe wrote:
>>>
>>> > Having said that, I don't think I've had more sound problems with my
>>> > sid workstations than with my stable server. Sound is generally a
>>> > pig on Linux, as the software base seems to change every few years,
>>> > and until recently, multiple sound cards had the same problem as
>>> > multiple NICs in that the OS couldn't seem to identify them
>>> > reliably. I've solved most of my sound problems by getting brutal
>>> > and actually ripping out and blacklisting drivers for the sound
>>> > devices I'm not using. Nothing less seemed to permanently solve the
>>> > identity crisis.
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> for my workstation (I want to turn it on and just work), I use
>>> stable. For my server(s) the same. IMO Sid belongs in a VM for
>>> playing arround. If you want to be one step ahead of time, try
>>> testing it is usually stable.
>>
>> Outside the release freeze, testing is only a little more stable than
>> unstable, and gets fixes later. In the long term, there's not a lot to
>> choose.
>
> don't think so because after unstable iteration, the fixes usually work
> intesting.


That was my experience with testing.. Buster. It worked great *for me*.

I did finally figuratively "run away" while very literally "shrieking"
one day because there were SO MANY upgrades. I wasn't able to do both
that and the advocacy that MUST be done from behind this keyboard
right now. That just doesn't work on dialup... unfortunately... or I
would still be on testing.. :)

The first time I did testing was for Stretch. That happened to be at
the end of the cycle just before it became stable. It spoiled me.
Upgrades are much rarer at that point because Developers have
consciously put a hold on any new tweaks so as to have a product
that's legitimately ready to wear the tag "stable".

Something like that... :)

BECAUSE things are getting ready to roll over again sooner than later,
I decided this week to try another testing debootstrap. In fact, let's
do that right now. See ya! Can't do that and chat online at the same
time, either, dialup yada-yada.. :D

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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#198516 — Re: Using Sid (was: New `no sound' problems)

Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
...
> I did finally figuratively "run away" while very literally "shrieking"
> one day because there were SO MANY upgrades. I wasn't able to do both
> that and the advocacy that MUST be done from behind this keyboard
> right now. That just doesn't work on dialup... unfortunately... or I
> would still be on testing.. :)

  i used to use the debdelta package/service to speed
things up and it did help quite a bit for certain
packages but i have no idea if it is really kept up
any longer.


> The first time I did testing was for Stretch. That happened to be at
> the end of the cycle just before it became stable. It spoiled me.
> Upgrades are much rarer at that point because Developers have
> consciously put a hold on any new tweaks so as to have a product
> that's legitimately ready to wear the tag "stable".
>
> Something like that... :)
>
> BECAUSE things are getting ready to roll over again sooner than later,
> I decided this week to try another testing debootstrap. In fact, let's
> do that right now. See ya! Can't do that and chat online at the same
> time, either, dialup yada-yada.. :D
>
> Cindy :)

  ok, so perhaps the above may help, or not, i don't
think it costs much to use/install.


  songbird

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#198523 — Re: Using Sid - sound prob

On 08/09/2018 05:10 AM, Joe wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Aug 2018 08:14:44 +0200
> deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

>>
>> Regarding the sound - I never had a problem in the past 12+ years.
> 
> You are fortunate. I went though a period where the assignments for
> sound card 0 and 1 would randomly flip, every few weeks or months. I
> didn't find whatever magical incantation would prevent this, if it
> existed.

I too have not had a serious sound system problem in YEARS. I don't dink 
with hand edits, I use alsamixer to set up my sound devices, then use 
pulse to select the output/input devices as I select them. No probs. I 
did make it easy for my system by using only USB sound devices. They are 
not only CHEAP but trouble free. I have a USB stereo headphone with 
mike, a USB 7.1 sound device (so I can blast my neighbors into the next 
county if I were wanting to do that).and there is a mike on my USB web 
cam. ALL easily configurable, as well as usable with alsa/pulse. I also 
use the USB headphones on my laptop. The built-in speakers are crap.

 >> I'm a computer *user*.

Not once you start screwing around with stuff.
IF alsa cannot deal with your audio device, find an open window.
Then toss the device out the window.
(or disable it in bios)
Get a USB audio device and pray your hand edits haven't rendered alsa 
useless. Ric

p/s don't use Sid
-- 
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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