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Surprises during upgrade using Synaptic

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  Surprises during upgrade using Synaptic Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-08-02 15:10 +0200
    Re: Surprises during upgrade using Synaptic bw <bwtnguy@yahoo.com> - 2018-08-02 17:30 +0200
      Re: Surprises during upgrade using Synaptic Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-08-02 19:40 +0200
    Re: Surprises during upgrade using Synaptic David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-08-02 17:30 +0200
      Re: Surprises during upgrade using Synaptic Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-08-02 19:40 +0200
    Re: Surprises during upgrade using Synaptic Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-08-02 21:30 +0200

#198183 — Surprises during upgrade using Synaptic

For the first time I did a system upgrade against the online repository.
In the past, due to local conditions, my upgrades were by doing a fresh 
install from purchased  DVD sets of latest point release.

I was greeted by list of locales to added or upgraded. Not seeing any 
possible harm I allowed it. I then got a screen asking to accept my 
current locale. If it already knew my locale, why didn't just initially 
ask if I wanted my current locale updated?

I was then greeted with choices to update several subsystems. I rather 
blindly accepted the recommendations. The explanations display seemed 
safe - would they be of use or just add bloat?

I found Synaptic's Help - un-helpful (didn't give enough info on what 
was happening). Is there a web page aimed at a beginner/intermediate 
user to understand what is happening?

TIA

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#198191

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018, Richard Owlett wrote:

> For the first time I did a system upgrade against the online repository.
> In the past, due to local conditions, my upgrades were by doing a fresh
> install from purchased  DVD sets of latest point release.
> 
> I was greeted by list of locales to added or upgraded. Not seeing any possible
> harm I allowed it. I then got a screen asking to accept my current locale. If
> it already knew my locale, why didn't just initially ask if I wanted my
> current locale updated?
> 
> I was then greeted with choices to update several subsystems. I rather blindly
> accepted the recommendations. The explanations display seemed safe - would
> they be of use or just add bloat?
> 
> I found Synaptic's Help - un-helpful (didn't give enough info on what was
> happening). Is there a web page aimed at a beginner/intermediate user to
> understand what is happening?
> 
> TIA
> 
> 

What problem are you trying to solve?  https://wiki.debian.org/Synaptic 
says synaptic is "targeted at ease of use" so maybe that is why it 
does not have the helpful additional info you are looking for?

On the other hand, each pkg can include scripts that run before or after 
installation.  That may be why you were asked a question.  I think there 
may be several ways to do it, but debconf https://wiki.debian.org/debconf 
is probably the way it is handled for most pkgs?

Every pkg has a changelog, a debian changelog, sometime a NEWS.debian, and 
usually one or two readme files at /usr/share/doc/<pkgname> so maybe 
looking up the readme for pkg locales will answer one of the questions.

good wiki here also https://wiki.debian.org/DebianPackageManagement

good luck.

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#198197

On 08/02/2018 10:24 AM, bw wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2 Aug 2018, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
>> For the first time I did a system upgrade against the online repository.
>> In the past, due to local conditions, my upgrades were by doing a fresh
>> install from purchased  DVD sets of latest point release.
>>
>> I was greeted by list of locales to added or upgraded. Not seeing any possible
>> harm I allowed it. I then got a screen asking to accept my current locale. If
>> it already knew my locale, why didn't just initially ask if I wanted my
>> current locale updated?
>>
>> I was then greeted with choices to update several subsystems. I rather blindly
>> accepted the recommendations. The explanations display seemed safe - would
>> they be of use or just add bloat?
>>
>> I found Synaptic's Help - un-helpful (didn't give enough info on what was
>> happening). Is there a web page aimed at a beginner/intermediate user to
>> understand what is happening?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>>
> 
> What problem are you trying to solve?  https://wiki.debian.org/Synaptic
> says synaptic is "targeted at ease of use" so maybe that is why it
> does not have the helpful additional info you are looking for?

I suspected as much. I have a strange collection of background. I was 
introduced to programming with CORC/CUPL at Cornell in the early 60's. 
Dartmouth's BASIC later filled that market niche. In the 70's did some 
database management in dBaseII under close supervision. Later I did 
maintenance of 8085 assembler. I was never involved at the OS level 
until using Debian Squeeze.

> 
> On the other hand, each pkg can include scripts that run before or after
> installation.  That may be why you were asked a question.  I think there
> may be several ways to do it, but debconf https://wiki.debian.org/debconf
> is probably the way it is handled for most pkgs?
> 
> Every pkg has a changelog, a debian changelog, sometime a NEWS.debian, and
> usually one or two readme files at /usr/share/doc/<pkgname> so maybe
> looking up the readme for pkg locales will answer one of the questions.
> 
> good wiki here also https://wiki.debian.org/DebianPackageManagement
> 

Next time I'll use command line tools. Looking up the man pages will 
help in deciding what path I wish to follow. Also, I suspect any 
questions will be at a more fine grained level.

I have bookmarked your links.

Thank you.

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#198192

On Thu 02 Aug 2018 at 08:03:32 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> For the first time I did a system upgrade against the online repository.
> In the past, due to local conditions, my upgrades were by doing a
> fresh install from purchased  DVD sets of latest point release.
> 
> I was greeted by list of locales to added or upgraded. Not seeing
> any possible harm I allowed it. I then got a screen asking to accept
> my current locale. If it already knew my locale, why didn't just
> initially ask if I wanted my current locale updated?
> 
> I was then greeted with choices to update several subsystems. I
> rather blindly accepted the recommendations. The explanations
> display seemed safe - would they be of use or just add bloat?
> 
> I found Synaptic's Help - un-helpful (didn't give enough info on
> what was happening). Is there a web page aimed at a
> beginner/intermediate user to understand what is happening?

As a first-timer, the best thing to do is let synaptic install
whatever it wants. Bloat will probably do you no harm.

As you gain experience, you'll be able to make your own judgments
as to what's really necessary, and then be a little more selective.
Again, as a greenhorn, you could just reinstall from scratch with
your new-found experience.

One idea that you might try is to have a drive partitioned with
several partitions, so that you can do these reinstalls on one
partition while leaving usable system(s) untouched until
you're happy with their successor.

Cheers,
David.

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#198196

On 08/02/2018 10:23 AM, David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 02 Aug 2018 at 08:03:32 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>> For the first time I did a system upgrade against the online repository.
>> In the past, due to local conditions, my upgrades were by doing a
>> fresh install from purchased  DVD sets of latest point release.
>>
>> I was greeted by list of locales to added or upgraded. Not seeing
>> any possible harm I allowed it. I then got a screen asking to accept
>> my current locale. If it already knew my locale, why didn't just
>> initially ask if I wanted my current locale updated?
>>
>> I was then greeted with choices to update several subsystems. I
>> rather blindly accepted the recommendations. The explanations
>> display seemed safe - would they be of use or just add bloat?
>>
>> I found Synaptic's Help - un-helpful (didn't give enough info on
>> what was happening). Is there a web page aimed at a
>> beginner/intermediate user to understand what is happening?
> 
> As a first-timer, the best thing to do is let synaptic install
> whatever it wants. Bloat will probably do you no harm.
> 
> As you gain experience, you'll be able to make your own judgments
> as to what's really necessary, and then be a little more selective.
> Again, as a greenhorn, you could just reinstall from scratch with
> your new-found experience.
> 
> One idea that you might try is to have a drive partitioned with
> several partitions, so that you can do these reinstalls on one
> partition while leaving usable system(s) untouched until
> you're happy with their successor.

The ONLY way to go :}
 From Squeeze on, each of my installs have been made to a fresh 
partition. That was usually because I wanted to experiment with a 
different configuration.

Thanks.

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#198201

On Thu 02 Aug 2018 at 08:03:32 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> For the first time I did a system upgrade against the online repository.
> In the past, due to local conditions, my upgrades were by doing a fresh
> install from purchased  DVD sets of latest point release.

You have now moved into an arena that the vast majority Debian users of                                               
have occupied for many, many years. Are you seeking special attention
for issues which have been discussed numerous times in the past and for
which -user archives will provide you with an answer?
> 
> I was greeted by list of locales to added or upgraded. Not seeing any
> possible harm I allowed it. I then got a screen asking to accept my current
> locale. If it already knew my locale, why didn't just initially ask if I
> wanted my current locale updated?

Apparently you are. My locale is GB.UTF-8. UTF makes me very happy. So
does GB. Your locale is something similar. You have no need of any other
locales. Just go with the flow.

> I was then greeted with choices to update several subsystems. I rather
> blindly accepted the recommendations. The explanations display seemed safe -
> would they be of use or just add bloat?

You are either going to upgrade or not. Bloat doesn't come into it. The
packages to upgrade were useful to you before - why shouldn't they be
useful afterwards?

Your mail says - I upgraded Debian; it was completely successful.

> I found Synaptic's Help - un-helpful (didn't give enough info on what was
> happening). Is there a web page aimed at a beginner/intermediate user to
> understand what is happening?

Understanding what is happening begins in the brain. Has it been given
an upgrade recently?

-- 
Brian.

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