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Groups > linux.debian.user > #200963 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-10-07 15:40 +0200 |
| Last post | 2018-10-08 17:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 62 — 18 participants |
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Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-07 15:40 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-10-07 16:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-07 16:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-08 03:30 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-08 13:40 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-10-08 14:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-08 14:40 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-10-08 17:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-08 14:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-08 18:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-08 21:30 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-10-08 21:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-08 22:40 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-10-08 22:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-10-09 10:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-10-08 21:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 01:30 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-09 03:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 04:40 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-09 16:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-10-09 12:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-09 17:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-10-09 17:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-09 18:20 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-10-09 18:30 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-09 22:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-10-10 10:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-14 14:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 11:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-15 14:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-15 16:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-10-15 17:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-15 17:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-17 16:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-17 17:20 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-17 17:20 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-10-10 16:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-10 17:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-10 17:20 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-10 17:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-09 21:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-10-09 22:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-10-09 22:20 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Alexandre Rossi <alexandre.rossi@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 15:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-14 14:30 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2018-10-07 16:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-10-07 16:40 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-10-08 20:20 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 17:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2018-10-07 22:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 11:40 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2018-10-08 13:20 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 13:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2018-10-11 00:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-08 03:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2018-10-08 08:00 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-08 17:30 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2018-10-10 11:20 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-10-08 13:50 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-10-08 05:40 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-10-08 10:10 +0200
Re: Upgrading with a low data cap David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-08 17:10 +0200
Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 Next page →
| From | Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-09 12:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wGX7H-2ki-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201063 |
Richard Owlett wrote: > On 10/08/2018 06:23 PM, David wrote: >> On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 at 06:25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: >>> >>> I have no LAN. >>> >>> I've a low cap. >> >> Using the word "cap" suggests that you have an internet service provider. > > True >> >> How do you connect to that service provider? > > The same way as for decades via a "modem" (quotation marks significant). > That was not how my ISP describes it. T-mobile sells it as a WiFi > Hotspot which is served by the cell network [the WiFi is turned off]. > When my former ISP discontinued dial-up service I chose not to use a > connection that physically restricted me to a physical point of service. You have the capacity for a LAN - you'll just need to turn your USB-tethered machine into a router. Although, perhaps that is work you don't want to bother doing. The WiFi capabilities of the device would also allow you to have a LAN. But if you have reasons for turning it off beyond "I don't need no WiFi", then I suppose turning it on would be detrimental. -- |_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947 |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-09 17:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wH1Em-4KZ-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201073 |
On 10/09/2018 04:57 AM, Dan Purgert wrote: > Richard Owlett wrote: >> On 10/08/2018 06:23 PM, David wrote: >>> On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 at 06:25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have no LAN. >>>> >>>> I've a low cap. >>> >>> Using the word "cap" suggests that you have an internet service provider. >> >> True >>> >>> How do you connect to that service provider? >> >> The same way as for decades via a "modem" (quotation marks significant). >> That was not how my ISP describes it. T-mobile sells it as a WiFi >> Hotspot which is served by the cell network [the WiFi is turned off]. >> When my former ISP discontinued dial-up service I chose not to use a >> connection that physically restricted me to a physical point of service. > > You have the capacity for a LAN - you'll just need to turn your > USB-tethered machine into a router. Although, perhaps that is work you > don't want to bother doing. LAN generally requires Ethernet. My second most used machine does not have a physically available Ethernet port. > > The WiFi capabilities of the device would also allow you to have a LAN. > But if you have reasons for turning it off beyond "I don't need no > WiFi", then I suppose turning it on would be detrimental. The above mentioned second most used machine also has no WiFi. That's why I had once investigated a USB-USB connection.
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| From | Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-09 17:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wH2qJ-5fv-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201087 |
Richard Owlett wrote: > On 10/09/2018 04:57 AM, Dan Purgert wrote: >> Richard Owlett wrote: >>> On 10/08/2018 06:23 PM, David wrote: >>>> On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 at 06:25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have no LAN. >>>>> >>>>> I've a low cap. >>>> >>>> Using the word "cap" suggests that you have an internet service provider. >>> >>> True >>>> >>>> How do you connect to that service provider? >>> >>> The same way as for decades via a "modem" (quotation marks significant). >>> That was not how my ISP describes it. T-mobile sells it as a WiFi >>> Hotspot which is served by the cell network [the WiFi is turned off]. >>> When my former ISP discontinued dial-up service I chose not to use a >>> connection that physically restricted me to a physical point of service. >> >> You have the capacity for a LAN - you'll just need to turn your >> USB-tethered machine into a router. Although, perhaps that is work you >> don't want to bother doing. > > LAN generally requires Ethernet. My second most used machine does not > have a physically available Ethernet port. Ethernet doesn't require cables though. However the secondary bit that you cannot (will not?) add WiFi to the secondary (tertiary?) machines does throw a wrench into the works. -- |_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947 |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-09 18:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wH2TM-5DT-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201089 |
On 10/09/2018 10:31 AM, Dan Purgert wrote: > Richard Owlett wrote: >[snip] >> LAN generally requires Ethernet. My second most used machine does not >> have a physically available Ethernet port. > > Ethernet doesn't require cables though. https://techterms.com/definition/ethernet : > Ethernet, pronounced "E-thernet" (with a long "e"), is the standard way > to connect computers on a network over a wired connection. https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/42781/ethernet : > The standard network technology that connects computers to each other and to the Internet via cables. Defined as the 802.3 standard by the IEEE, the Ethernet access method is the global standard. Companies have hundreds and thousands of PCs wired together via Ethernet, and almost every reference to "local network," "LAN," and "network ready" is Ethernet. All new computers have it built in, and old machines can be retrofitted (see Ethernet adapter). See LAN. > > Ethernet Is Wired - Wi-Fi Is Wireless > Wired Ethernet and wireless Wi-Fi exist together in virtually every home and office. Desktop computers may be wired, but phones and tablets need Wi-Fi, and a wireless router supports both. See Wi-Fi and wireless router. > However the secondary bit that > you cannot (will not?) add WiFi to the secondary (tertiary?) machines > does throw a wrench into the works. > >
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-09 18:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wH33s-5GX-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201089 |
On Tue 09 Oct 2018 at 15:31:03 -0000, Dan Purgert wrote: > Richard Owlett wrote: > > On 10/09/2018 04:57 AM, Dan Purgert wrote: > >> Richard Owlett wrote: > >>> On 10/08/2018 06:23 PM, David wrote: > >>>> On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 at 06:25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I have no LAN. > >>>>> > >>>>> I've a low cap. > >>>> > >>>> Using the word "cap" suggests that you have an internet service provider. > >>> > >>> True > >>>> > >>>> How do you connect to that service provider? > >>> > >>> The same way as for decades via a "modem" (quotation marks significant). > >>> That was not how my ISP describes it. T-mobile sells it as a WiFi > >>> Hotspot which is served by the cell network [the WiFi is turned off]. > >>> When my former ISP discontinued dial-up service I chose not to use a > >>> connection that physically restricted me to a physical point of service. > >> > >> You have the capacity for a LAN - you'll just need to turn your > >> USB-tethered machine into a router. Although, perhaps that is work you > >> don't want to bother doing. > > > > LAN generally requires Ethernet. My second most used machine does not > > have a physically available Ethernet port. > > Ethernet doesn't require cables though. However the secondary bit that > you cannot (will not?) add WiFi to the secondary (tertiary?) machines > does throw a wrench into the works. It's about time some invented a WiFi device which plugs into a USB port. -- Brian.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-09 22:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wH6ul-7NQ-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201095 |
On Tuesday 09 October 2018 12:20:25 Brian wrote: > On Tue 09 Oct 2018 at 15:31:03 -0000, Dan Purgert wrote: > > Richard Owlett wrote: > > > On 10/09/2018 04:57 AM, Dan Purgert wrote: > > >> Richard Owlett wrote: > > >>> On 10/08/2018 06:23 PM, David wrote: > > >>>> On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 at 06:25, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > > >>>>> I have no LAN. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I've a low cap. > > >>>> > > >>>> Using the word "cap" suggests that you have an internet service > > >>>> provider. > > >>> > > >>> True > > >>> > > >>>> How do you connect to that service provider? > > >>> > > >>> The same way as for decades via a "modem" (quotation marks > > >>> significant). That was not how my ISP describes it. T-mobile > > >>> sells it as a WiFi Hotspot which is served by the cell network > > >>> [the WiFi is turned off]. When my former ISP discontinued > > >>> dial-up service I chose not to use a connection that physically > > >>> restricted me to a physical point of service. > > >> > > >> You have the capacity for a LAN - you'll just need to turn your > > >> USB-tethered machine into a router. Although, perhaps that is > > >> work you don't want to bother doing. > > > > > > LAN generally requires Ethernet. My second most used machine does > > > not have a physically available Ethernet port. > > > > Ethernet doesn't require cables though. However the secondary bit > > that you cannot (will not?) add WiFi to the secondary (tertiary?) > > machines does throw a wrench into the works. > > It's about time some invented a WiFi device which plugs into a USB > port. Not needed, you can buy such a dongle from netgear for at least half a decade or longer. I was out of ports on the 4 port in the shop, so I bought one, moved an old router (running dd-wrt) out there and turned its radio on, and rigged a teeny desk for my lappy so I could ssh into the machines and write gcode in the comfort of a folding chair, then exercise it while being able to see the machine move. But I had to turn the radio off because it was also bridged to the main router, and thence to the backbone. One of my neighbors got by the simple ssid, and used 80 gigs of my bandwidth one month so the radio got turned off and I now have it hardwired when its out there. So now the radios stay off unless one of my boys brings in a smartphone and needs a connection. -- Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-10 10:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wHhzr-5Gm-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201100 |
On 2018-10-09, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote: >> >> It's about time some invented a WiFi device which plugs into a USB >> port. > > Not needed, you can buy such a dongle from netgear for at least half a > decade or longer. I was out of ports on the 4 port in the shop, so I I interpreted B's comment as pure snark of the variety inspired by Richard's old-school and sometimes purely fictional and/or volitional and/or self-imposed constraints. But maybe you're right, and the guy's (B) been living in a closet for the last decade or so with the brooms and the mops. -- "Now she understood that Anna could not have been in lilac, and that her charm was just that she always stood out against her attire, that her dress could never be noticeable on her." Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-14 14:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wINnA-2dy-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201106 |
On 10/10/2018 02:53 AM, Curt wrote: > On 2018-10-09, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote: >>> >>> It's about time some invented a WiFi device which plugs into a USB >>> port. >> >> Not needed, you can buy such a dongle from netgear for at least half a >> decade or longer. I was out of ports on the 4 port in the shop, so I > > I interpreted B's comment as pure snark of the variety inspired by > Richard's old-school and sometimes purely fictional and/or volitional > and/or self-imposed constraints. But maybe you're right, and the guy's > (B) been living in a closet for the last decade or so with the brooms > and the mops. > I think this all goes back to discovering a USB-USB device that would allow connecting two computers with the same topology/advantages/disadvantages as an "RS232C null modem". It did not work out-of-the-box in the manner *I* expected. The ramifications pointed to voids in my expertise. I pursued further as an *EDUCATIONAL* experience. As I (being past three score and ten) have said before "If retirement isn't for education, what use is it." I have no desire nor need for a traditional LAN. Also shoe leather express with a flash drive has actual idiosyncratic advantages. End of editorial <grin>
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| From | David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-15 11:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wJ72X-5uT-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201215 |
On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 at 23:01, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > > I have no desire nor need for a traditional LAN. Wanting to transfer or share data between machines, while simultaneously declaring the above, appears inconsistent. I don't know what a "traditional LAN" is, so I wonder what you mean by those words, and what happened to create your attitude that you wish to avoid whatever it is. Networking was invented to optimise the requirement of transferring or sharing data between machines. Today, TCPIP is is simple to configure, in both software and hardware. The hardware is inexpensive. The configuration scales easily: connecting one PC to one other PC is pretty much the same as connecting one PC to the entire internet. I write this because I feel it's likely that that people's interest in assisting you here will wane if you appear to reject well-known, simple, widely used even by simpletons, best-practice for obscure reasons. In the Debian installer you simply choose to use DHCP (if you have a ISP router modem that provides it) or specify some simple static network address values. The installer does the rest. Or you can do it yourself later, it's simple. On Mon, 8 Oct 2018 at 00:33, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > > Is it possible to use the cached data on another machine? When doing a new Debian install, the very first thing I do in the installer's expert mode is to configure it to use my local package cache on the machine next to it, and connect an ethernet cable between them. Bingo. > What should I be reading? man 5 interfaces, if you wish, or just answer the questions in the installer. And once you get that working ... 1) For package caching: approx or apt-cacher or apt-cacher-ng 2) For transferring data: rsync scp 3) To use the terminal on one machine to control another: ssh Debian is a modern miracle that I am grateful for every day. And there is a vast amount of expertise accessible on this mailing list. Typically the advice and assistance given here is an excellent guide to good practice, robust systems, and building useful, rewarding skills.
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-15 14:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wJ9R7-7bp-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201256 |
On 10/15/2018 04:09 AM, David wrote: > On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 at 23:01, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: >> >> I have no desire nor need for a traditional LAN. > > Wanting to transfer or share data between machines, while simultaneously > declaring the above, appears inconsistent. > [ *MASSIVE* snip] Thank you for your post. You gave several references I need to read. The key thought in the quoted sentence is a perceived inconsistency. I've asked multiple questions that readers have assumed arose in a single context. They didn't. In fact, some of the contexts are mutually exclusive. Given that threads once posted tend to have a life of their own, conflation should be expected [see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflation . Especially the 1st two paragraphs and the example of the "floating bride"]. I'll likely not have opportunity for a more complete response until tomorrow.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-15 16:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wJbJf-8ja-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201256 |
On Monday 15 October 2018 05:09:05 David wrote: > On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 at 23:01, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > > I have no desire nor need for a traditional LAN. > As a somewhat senior to Richard, one thing I've learned in a loooong carrear in electronics is that life is a lot simpler if you use the tools and parts designed to do the job at hand. So I don't understand the reticence to setup a local network on Richards part. Its the tool to do the job and nothing else works as easy or fast. > Wanting to transfer or share data between machines, while > simultaneously declaring the above, appears inconsistent. > > I don't know what a "traditional LAN" is, so I wonder what you mean by > those words, and what happened to create your attitude that you wish > to avoid whatever it is. > > Networking was invented to optimise the requirement of transferring or > sharing data > between machines. Today, TCPIP is is simple to configure, in both > software and hardware. The hardware is inexpensive. The configuration > scales easily: connecting one PC to one other PC is pretty much the > same as connecting one PC to the entire internet. And the best of both worlds is had buy investing in a good router, useing to to Native Address Translation between the dhcp supplied address your ISP gives the router when it connects to the modem, to an address range that is not forwarded to the internet except by explicit instructions in the routers setup, assuming its been reflashed with dd-wrt. Thats the best kept secret to a secure system extant. So all my stuff, 6 or 7 machines, have local addresses in the 192.168.xx.nn range, including this one. That router faces an 8 port switch which by circuitous (house architecture) means connects to the rest of the machines alongside this one. By that means all machines have equal and transparent access to the internet to keep them updated. I use ssh to log into all of them to operate them by remote control, and for file shuffling, they are all mounted to this machine and machine to machine with sshfs. I found both samba/cifs and nfs just troublesome enough I don't enable them if installed. Don't need them. With dd-wrt, I don't run firewalls, or if an installer sets one up and it gets in the way, it gets turned off, as dd-wrt handles all that in the router. In nearly 20 years, only one person has come thru that router and gained access to this machine, and I gave him the login's and pw's because I needed his help with a networking problem 15 years ago. > > I write this because I feel it's likely that that people's interest in > assisting you > here will wane if you appear to reject well-known, simple, widely used > even by simpletons, best-practice for obscure reasons. > This is also true, Richard. The interconnection experts here, you will find all use the right tool for the job (for his/her definition of right, there are about as many of those as freckles on a red headed lady's face) ;-) > In the Debian installer you simply choose to use DHCP (if you have a > ISP router modem that provides it) or specify some simple static > network address values. The installer does the rest. Or you can do it > yourself later, it's simple. And very insecure. The NAT and firewall in the router is the best security you can put in a single common point between you and the black hats. You don't need the hassle of local to local firewalls, only between you and the black hats in the far east. > On Mon, 8 Oct 2018 at 00:33, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > > Is it possible to use the cached data on another machine? Yes, I've done it via sshfs. > > When doing a new Debian install, the very first thing I do in the > installer's expert mode is to configure it to use my local package > cache on the machine next to it, and connect an ethernet cable between > them. Bingo. > > > What should I be reading? > > man 5 interfaces, if you wish, or just answer the questions in the > installer. And once you get that working ... > > 1) For package caching: > approx or apt-cacher or apt-cacher-ng > > 2) For transferring data: > rsync > scp Both of which work, but I generally use the sshfs mount for that since all the file manager tools like mc Just Work. Dr. N. Klepp can guide you to passwordless access means using keyfiles that are much harder to hack than passwords. > 3) To use the terminal on one machine to control another: > ssh Yes, read the man page. It has many options. > Debian is a modern miracle that I am grateful for every day. And there > is a vast amount of expertise accessible on this mailing list. > Typically the advice and assistance given here is an excellent guide > to good practice, robust systems, and building useful, rewarding > skills. +10 And if I can manage it at 84 yo, Richards 3 score and ten should NOT be a barrier. USB was never intended for peer to peer connections, TCPIP (ethernet) was. Use the tool designed for the job. Security is all in the setup. -- Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-15 17:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wJcvE-eI-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201260 |
Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday 15 October 2018 05:09:05 David wrote: > [...] > And the best of both worlds is had buy investing in a good router, useing > to to Native Address Translation between the dhcp supplied address your NAT = "Network Address Translation" ;) > ISP gives the router when it connects to the modem, to an address range > that is not forwarded to the internet except by explicit instructions in > the routers setup, assuming its been reflashed with dd-wrt. Thats the No need for "reflashed with dd-wrt", that's exactly what a brand new "all-in-one gateway" from Linksys, etc. will do out of the box (granted, one may prefer to use *wrt for other reasons). > [...] >> In the Debian installer you simply choose to use DHCP (if you have a >> ISP router modem that provides it) or specify some simple static >> network address values. The installer does the rest. Or you can do it >> yourself later, it's simple. > > And very insecure. The NAT and firewall in the router is the best > security you can put in a single common point between you and the black > hats. You don't need the hassle of local to local firewalls, only > between you and the black hats in the far east. Sure, running a box directly connected to the 'net with no firewall isn't the greatest idea -- but a few iptables rules, and your PC is doing exactly what you keep telling everyone to use dd-wrt for ;). -- |_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947 |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-15 17:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wJcvE-eI-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201263 |
On Monday 15 October 2018 10:45:54 Dan Purgert wrote: > Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Monday 15 October 2018 05:09:05 David wrote: > > [...] > > And the best of both worlds is had buy investing in a good router, > > useing to to Native Address Translation between the dhcp supplied > > address your > > NAT = "Network Address Translation" ;) > > > ISP gives the router when it connects to the modem, to an address > > range that is not forwarded to the internet except by explicit > > instructions in the routers setup, assuming its been reflashed with > > dd-wrt. Thats the > > No need for "reflashed with dd-wrt", that's exactly what a brand new > "all-in-one gateway" from Linksys, etc. will do out of the box > (granted, one may prefer to use *wrt for other reasons). > > > [...] > > > >> In the Debian installer you simply choose to use DHCP (if you have > >> a ISP router modem that provides it) or specify some simple static > >> network address values. The installer does the rest. Or you can do > >> it yourself later, it's simple. > > > > And very insecure. The NAT and firewall in the router is the best > > security you can put in a single common point between you and the > > black hats. You don't need the hassle of local to local firewalls, > > only between you and the black hats in the far east. > > Sure, running a box directly connected to the 'net with no firewall > isn't the greatest idea -- but a few iptables rules, and your PC is > doing exactly what you keep telling everyone to use dd-wrt for ;). Then please explain that to Richard. I'm from near Missouri. :) -- Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-17 16:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wJVj4-1YQ-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201256 |
On 10/15/2018 04:09 AM, David wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 at 23:01, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>>
>> I have no desire nor need for a traditional LAN.
>
> Wanting to transfer or share data between machines, while simultaneously
> declaring the above, appears inconsistent.
>
> I don't know what a "traditional LAN" is,
Quoting webopedia.com, "A local-area network (LAN) is a computer network
that spans a relatively small area."
The sticking point is an unstated assumption - a LAN connects two *OR
MORE* computers. I wish to connect *EXACTLY* two computers {for which an
RS232 null modem is _topologically_ an excellent picture}.
> so I wonder what you mean by those
> words, and what happened to create your attitude that you wish to avoid
> whatever it is.
[For goals/environment - see end of post]
> [snip]
>
> I write this because I feel it's likely that that people's interest in
> assisting you here will wane if you appear to reject well-known, simple,
> widely used even by simpletons, best-practice for obscure reasons.
When I ask questions I try {and evidently fail} to narrowly describe the
specific "factoid" desired. The confusion arises from the assumption
that I'm working on a single project. I have several, some with mutually
contradictory goals.
> [snip]
Now to a backgrounder.
Why use Linux and Debian in particular?
I got tired of Micro$soft thinking they knew more about my needs
than I did. I went looking for an "ideal OS. Asking for advice I was
pointed to Ubuntu finding Debian to be a better fit. Emdebian would
have been a good fit for my preferences if it was still current.
I found exploration of preseeding valuable for minimizing footprint
and having the packages I needed without the "clutter" of packages
of no interest nor use. I still have a mindset suggesting Emdebian.
I have a dormant project from that era to create a script to asking
questions to create a preseed configuration file - there was once a
website aimed in a similar direction encouraged me.
My environment
60" X 30" folding table
4 laptops with multiple configurations of multiple Debian releases.
1 desktop with WinXP Pro and 3 configurations of Debian Stretch.
{WinXP allows me to use some apps but requiring excessive effort to
move to a Linux machine. One is reported to not cooperate with wine.}
No more than 2 computers can be physically accessed at the same time.
The only common communication *hardware* is USB 2.0 .
There are some older tower type desktops in a back room whose only
bi-directional communication hardware is RS232. [being saved for a low
priority project]
I have an 8-port switch but no physical space for it.
I connect to the internet via a USB connected T-Mobile Hotspot.
WiFi is disabled as it is a possible security problem contributing
to unnecessary spectrum pollution.
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| From | Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-17 17:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wJVM6-2ot-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201378 |
On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 10:10:01AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Richard Owlett writes:
> > Quoting webopedia.com, "A local-area network (LAN) is a computer
> > network that spans a relatively small area." The sticking point is an
> > unstated assumption - a LAN connects two *OR MORE* computers. I wish
> > to connect *EXACTLY* two computers {for which an RS232 null modem is
> > _topologically_ an excellent picture}.
>
> If both computers have ethernet hardware you just need an ethernet
> cable. With older hardware it may need to be a crossover cable (the
> ethernet equivalent of a null modem). This establishes the most minimal
> LAN possible.
If they don't have ethernet ports but do have USB2.0 ports, then
they can have USB-ethernet ports for about $15 each. Then back
to John Hasler's solution.
-dsr-
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-17 17:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wJVM6-2ot-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201378 |
Richard Owlett writes:
> Quoting webopedia.com, "A local-area network (LAN) is a computer
> network that spans a relatively small area." The sticking point is an
> unstated assumption - a LAN connects two *OR MORE* computers. I wish
> to connect *EXACTLY* two computers {for which an RS232 null modem is
> _topologically_ an excellent picture}.
If both computers have ethernet hardware you just need an ethernet
cable. With older hardware it may need to be a crossover cable (the
ethernet equivalent of a null modem). This establishes the most minimal
LAN possible.
--
John Hasler
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
--
John Hasler
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-10 16:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wHnbP-un-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201100 |
On Tuesday, October 09, 2018 04:01:49 PM Gene Heskett wrote: > On Tuesday 09 October 2018 12:20:25 Brian wrote: > > It's about time some invented a WiFi device which plugs into a USB > > port. > > Not needed, you can buy such a dongle from netgear for at least half a > decade or longer. I was out of ports on the 4 port in the shop, so I > bought one, moved an old router (running dd-wrt) out there and turned > its radio on, and rigged a teeny desk for my lappy so I could ssh into > the machines and write gcode in the comfort of a folding chair, then > exercise it while being able to see the machine move. But I had to turn > the radio off because it was also bridged to the main router, and thence > to the backbone. One of my neighbors got by the simple ssid, and used > 80 gigs of my bandwidth one month so the radio got turned off and I now > have it hardwired when its out there. So now the radios stay off unless > one of my boys brings in a smartphone and needs a connection. And that reminds me that there are also somewhat similar devices that plug into a USB port and provide (in my case) 4 more USB ports and one RJ-45 Ethernet port. I bought a couple of those on eBay (surely from the far east) for less than $10 each a few years ago. I use them to connect tablets without Ethernet ports to my LAN. I suppose you could then plug the Ethernet into a WiFi adapter, but I've never tried that, and I'd begin to worry that some timing issue or similar might prevent it from working.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-10 17:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wHo7T-11H-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201115 |
On Wednesday 10 October 2018 09:58:22 rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > On Tuesday, October 09, 2018 04:01:49 PM Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Tuesday 09 October 2018 12:20:25 Brian wrote: > > > It's about time some invented a WiFi device which plugs into a USB > > > port. > > > > Not needed, you can buy such a dongle from netgear for at least half > > a decade or longer. I was out of ports on the 4 port in the shop, so > > I bought one, moved an old router (running dd-wrt) out there and > > turned its radio on, and rigged a teeny desk for my lappy so I could > > ssh into the machines and write gcode in the comfort of a folding > > chair, then exercise it while being able to see the machine move. > > But I had to turn the radio off because it was also bridged to the > > main router, and thence to the backbone. One of my neighbors got by > > the simple ssid, and used 80 gigs of my bandwidth one month so the > > radio got turned off and I now have it hardwired when its out there. > > So now the radios stay off unless one of my boys brings in a > > smartphone and needs a connection. > > And that reminds me that there are also somewhat similar devices that > plug into a USB port and provide (in my case) 4 more USB ports and one > RJ-45 Ethernet port. I bought a couple of those on eBay (surely from > the far east) for less than $10 each a few years ago. > > I use them to connect tablets without Ethernet ports to my LAN. > > I suppose you could then plug the Ethernet into a WiFi adapter, but > I've never tried that, and I'd begin to worry that some timing issue > or similar might prevent it from working. Thats something that one of the wifi gear makers (linksys?) has also had for 16 years or so. When I was playing visiting fireman at a tv station in the UP, (I'm a retired broadcast engineer) the motels internet was a router with a radio. My lappy's bcm4318 radio could not connect more than 15-30 seconds at a time. So the motel had little 3" square boxes you could ask for, plug it into the rj45 net port on my old lappy, and it just worked most of the time. The router needed a powerdown about 2x a day but mostly worked. I'd stopped this machines predecessor's suckage of email with fetchmail, so I could then get my email via t-bird from my motel room 950 miles away. Eventually the outfit that had set the motel's internet up replaced the flaky router, and the last time I went up it just worked if I borrowed that little box. The bcm4318 was on a PCMCIA card but I never found one to replace it as everybody seemed to think it was a $150 card. And would not let me test it in my machine. No sale, obviously. Now I've got some little gismo from netgear that IIRC cost a bit over 30 USD that plugs into the usb port adjacent to the rj45. No longer in use as I had to turn that routers radio off for lack of access security. A neighbor was using 2.5x my own net bandwidth/month thru it. And they might not have realized they were. I've no neighbors smart enough to know, or care. Probably a smartphone, which will grab any signal it can get. Shrug. -- Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-10 17:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wHorf-1nf-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201119 |
On Wed 10 Oct 2018 at 10:52:10 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: > On Wednesday 10 October 2018 09:58:22 rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > > On Tuesday, October 09, 2018 04:01:49 PM Gene Heskett wrote: > > > On Tuesday 09 October 2018 12:20:25 Brian wrote: > > > > It's about time some invented a WiFi device which plugs into a USB port. > > > > > > Not needed, I think the remark was a sarcastic aside. > > And that reminds me that there are also somewhat similar devices that > > plug into a USB port and provide (in my case) 4 more USB ports and one > > RJ-45 Ethernet port. I bought a couple of those on eBay (surely from > > the far east) for less than $10 each a few years ago. > > > > I use them to connect tablets without Ethernet ports to my LAN. The OP has indicated awareness of such devices and has eschewed them. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/06/msg00418.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/06/msg00435.html I have no idea how to interpret "*DOES NOT* have a _physically_ accesible Ethernet port" in https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/10/msg00302.html > Now I've got some little gismo from netgear that IIRC > cost a bit over 30 USD that plugs into the usb port adjacent to the > rj45. No longer in use as I had to turn that routers radio off for lack > of access security. A neighbor was using 2.5x my own net bandwidth/month > thru it. And they might not have realized they were. I've no neighbors > smart enough to know, or care. Probably a smartphone, which will grab > any signal it can get. Shrug. Do you mean that smartphones can crack WPA2 without its owner even being aware of the fact? (You've posted abut this incident several times.) Cheers, David.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-10 17:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <wHoUi-1w8-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #201122 |
On Wednesday 10 October 2018 11:18:46 David Wright wrote: > On Wed 10 Oct 2018 at 10:52:10 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Wednesday 10 October 2018 09:58:22 rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Tuesday, October 09, 2018 04:01:49 PM Gene Heskett wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 09 October 2018 12:20:25 Brian wrote: > > > > > It's about time some invented a WiFi device which plugs into a > > > > > USB port. > > > > > > > > Not needed, > > I think the remark was a sarcastic aside. > > > > And that reminds me that there are also somewhat similar devices > > > that plug into a USB port and provide (in my case) 4 more USB > > > ports and one RJ-45 Ethernet port. I bought a couple of those on > > > eBay (surely from the far east) for less than $10 each a few years > > > ago. > > > > > > I use them to connect tablets without Ethernet ports to my LAN. > > The OP has indicated awareness of such devices and has eschewed them. > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/06/msg00418.html > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/06/msg00435.html > > I have no idea how to interpret "*DOES NOT* have a _physically_ > accesible Ethernet port" in > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/10/msg00302.html > > > Now I've got some little gismo from netgear that IIRC > > cost a bit over 30 USD that plugs into the usb port adjacent to the > > rj45. No longer in use as I had to turn that routers radio off for > > lack of access security. A neighbor was using 2.5x my own net > > bandwidth/month thru it. And they might not have realized they were. > > I've no neighbors smart enough to know, or care. Probably a > > smartphone, which will grab any signal it can get. Shrug. > > Do you mean that smartphones can crack WPA2 without its owner even > being aware of the fact? (You've posted abut this incident several > times.) > Maybe David, I could cancel that lease, and it was back by the time it could refresh the screen but I'll not lay my hand on the good book. That old router may not even have been aware of wpa2. Very little security if any. Old old netgear, made long before there was wifi in every neighbors house. Currently holding down a walmart plastic sack (from the inside) in the garage. Ought to have a 4 lb hammer massage before I toss it in the trash trailer for recycling. Not enough memory to be reflashed with dd-wrt. Cannot turn the radio off, it comes back up with the next power bump. Worthless to me. Good only for someone a mile or more to the next farmhouse. This isn't that place although I can toss a clod of clay out of the city limits from my front yard. I think, my arm is getting tired, its 84 yo like the rest of me. :-[> > Cheers, > David. -- Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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