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Re: What are the differences between systemd and non-systemd Linux distros?

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  Re: What are the differences between systemd and non-systemd Linux  distros? Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2018-10-16 18:30 +0200
    Re: What are the differences between systemd and non-systemd Linux  distros? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-10-16 19:40 +0200
      Re: What are the differences between systemd and non-systemd Linux  distros? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-10-16 22:40 +0200
    Re: What are the differences between systemd and non-systemd Linux  distros? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-16 20:00 +0200
      Re: What are the differences between systemd and non-systemd Linux  distros? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2018-10-16 21:20 +0200

#201315 — Re: What are the differences between systemd and non-systemd Linux distros?

Two I can think of now.
1) no more /etc/rc.d/ directory tree; now /usr/lib/systemd/ for scripts,
2) systemd is supposed to be a security improvement over systemv.
I do not now nor have I ever worked for Microsoft for that reason I do not
tell planes circling around a tower building on the Microsoft campus when
they ask where they are that they're flying around a tower.



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#201323

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:05:58PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Two I can think of now.
> 1) no more /etc/rc.d/ directory tree; now /usr/lib/systemd/ for scripts,

Debian uses /lib/systemd/ instead of /usr/lib/systemd/.  Otherwise, yes.

> 2) systemd is supposed to be a security improvement over systemv.

It's a reliability and management improvement, not a security improvement
in the sense that people usually think of the word "security".  It's not
going to mean "fewer bugs" or "hackers can't get in", or anything of that
sort. (If anything, it IS more complex, so I would expect more bugs, just
on the general principle that complex code is more likely to have bugs.)

Debian's decision to follow the systemd path can be seen in part here:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2013/12/msg00234.html

You should definitely read that if you have any interest in this subject.

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#201332

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 01:20:53PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:05:58PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>> 2) systemd is supposed to be a security improvement over systemv.
>
>It's a reliability and management improvement, not a security improvement

Perhaps OP was referring to some of the systemd features that allow you
to isolate the services it manages for security reasons (PrivateNetwork,
PrivateTmp, etc.¹)

¹ http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/security.html

-- 

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

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#201324

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:05:58PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> 2) systemd is supposed to be a security improvement over systemv.


Do you know who told you that, or where it was written down?

-dsr-

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#201328

	Hi.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 01:36:06PM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:05:58PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> 
> > 2) systemd is supposed to be a security improvement over systemv.
> 
> Do you know who told you that, or where it was written down?

It's true to some extent.

systemd.exec(5) describes systemd's abilities to run a service in a
separate network/mount namespace, in a different SELinux contenxt,
remove certain capabilities, etc.
There is nothing that cannot be done in sysvinit given sufficient amount
of wrappers embedded in each and every sysvinit script, yet nobody done
that (save SELinux) yet.

On the other hand we have rather ... dismissive (let's call it that)
attitude at systemd's upstream regarding security bug reports. [1] and
[2], to show some examples.

Reco

[1] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237
[2] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/4234

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