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Groups > linux.debian.user > #200003 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-09-11 20:10 +0200 |
| Last post | 2018-09-12 09:50 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 80 — 27 participants |
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ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-11 20:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-11 20:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-11 20:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 01:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 05:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Mimiko <vbvbrj@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 07:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-12 11:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2018-09-12 11:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-12 21:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2018-09-12 21:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-12 23:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-13 00:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-14 05:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2018-09-14 06:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-09-14 14:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-14 14:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-14 17:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 18:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-14 20:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2018-09-15 00:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-15 08:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-15 18:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-16 00:00 +0200
Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-09-16 00:50 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-17 20:10 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 20:20 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-18 20:10 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-09-19 05:00 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-19 17:50 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Igor Cicimov <icicimov@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 01:10 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 18:20 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 19:20 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 20:20 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-27 10:00 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-27 17:40 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Igor Cicimov <icicimov@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 13:10 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-30 03:20 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-30 08:50 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2018-09-30 12:10 +0200
Re: Decrypting LUKS from initramfs; was: Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-30 23:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 11:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-09-14 15:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-14 20:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-15 00:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-15 09:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-16 16:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-10-10 00:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2018-09-15 01:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 15:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-09-14 16:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-09-14 19:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-14 22:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2018-09-15 08:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-09-15 10:10 +0200
The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-09-15 10:20 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-15 10:50 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-09-15 11:30 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2018-09-16 16:50 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 19:00 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2018-09-18 21:10 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> - 2018-09-15 12:50 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> - 2018-09-15 12:50 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) Thakur Mahashaya <thmsh@yandex.ru> - 2018-09-15 13:00 +0200
Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry etienne.mollier@mailoo.org - 2018-09-16 12:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 11:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-09-14 14:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 06:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-09-14 17:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-09-14 21:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-09-26 11:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 08:10 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 08:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 09:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-09-12 11:20 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 12:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-09-12 15:50 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 17:40 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-09-12 18:00 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-09-12 18:30 +0200
Re: ext2 for /boot ??? -- WAS: Re: root on ZFS <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-09-12 09:50 +0200
Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 Next page →
| From | Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-26 11:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wCe9b-5ey-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200185 |
On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:52:01PM +0200, deloptes wrote: >I also wish I knew how to get ssh into initrd and the whole networking, so >that I could do it remotely when needed. That's easy enough: install the dropbear package, reconfigure the keys / authorized_keys files in /etc/initramfs-tools to trust whatever you need and regenerate your initramfs. When you SSH into the pre-boot environment, you get a shell and need to write the decryption passphrase to /lib/cryptsetup/passfifo. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.
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| From | Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-14 15:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wxW1c-wY-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200125 |
On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 08:37:45AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > So, make /boot a big larger, say couple GiBs, and set data=journalled > > BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition > tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole > OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the > original DEC Alphas? > The /boot on the desktop I'm using right now is 150MB. 70 is currently used. The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two versions of each. Grub eats almost 10MB. If you put all necessary drivers into the kernel rather than as modules, and your system fits a particular set of criteria, you can do without an initrd or initramfs entirely. So a really minimal but fully capable system could get away with 20 or 30 MB of /boot space. That said, even a really constrained system like a $35 Raspberry Pi is likely to have 4 to 32 GB of storage available at boot time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujitsu_Eagle but you tell that to kids these days, and you might as well be chasing them off your lawn. -dsr-
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| From | Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-14 20:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wy1kd-3t2-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200128 |
Le 14/09/2018 à 15:02, Dan Ritter a écrit : > > If you put all necessary drivers into the kernel rather than as > modules, and your system fits a particular set of criteria, you > can do without an initrd or initramfs entirely. *IF* it fits a particular set of criteria, including but probably not limited to the following : The root filesystem is NOT - identified by UUID or LABEL in the root= parameter - in an LVM logical volume - in a software RAID array using modern 1.x superblocks - in a dm-crypt or LUKS encrypted device The mass storage or network adapter used to access the root filesystem does NOT require to load an external firmware. /usr is NOT on a separate filesystem (it can boot but but expect trouble) Hibernation does NOT use uswsusp (userspace suspend). I'm afraid these criteria exclude a lot of systems.
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 00:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wy4rM-5s6-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200128 |
On Fri 14 Sep 2018 at 09:02:22 (-0400), Dan Ritter wrote: > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 08:37:45AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > > So, make /boot a big larger, say couple GiBs, and set data=journalled > > > > BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition > > tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole > > OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the > > original DEC Alphas? > > > > The /boot on the desktop I'm using right now is 150MB. 70 is > currently used. > > The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two > versions of each. Wow. Why are my initrds only 5MB? I have MODULES=most in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf. > Grub eats almost 10MB. It could be pruned: there's 4MB of localisation alone, and I'm not sure why the unicode font (1MB) gets placed into both /boot/grub/ and /boot/grub/fonts/. Cheers, David.
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| From | Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 09:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wyd22-28C-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200148 |
Le 15/09/2018 à 00:02, David Wright a écrit : > On Fri 14 Sep 2018 at 09:02:22 (-0400), Dan Ritter wrote: >> >> The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two >> versions of each. > > Wow. Why are my initrds only 5MB? I have MODULES=most in > /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf. Weird. My initrds on i386 are arount 20 MB with MODULES=most. They include additional stuff for LVM, RAID and a few firmwares, but kernel modules are by far the biggest part. What is your architecture ?
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| From | Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-16 16:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wyGno-2dE-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200158 |
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 09:12:54 +0200 Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> wrote: > Le 15/09/2018 à 00:02, David Wright a écrit : > > On Fri 14 Sep 2018 at 09:02:22 (-0400), Dan Ritter wrote: > >> > >> The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two > >> versions of each. > > > > Wow. Why are my initrds only 5MB? I have MODULES=most in > > /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf. > > Weird. My initrds on i386 are arount 20 MB with MODULES=most. They > include additional stuff for LVM, RAID and a few firmwares, but kernel > modules are by far the biggest part. > What is your architecture ? I'm not the OP, but on my fairly typical (I think?) Sid amd64 installation (with MODULES=most, and / on luks), my initrds are 8.3M. Celejar
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-10-10 00:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wH8cO-b0-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200158 |
On Sat 15 Sep 2018 at 09:12:54 (+0200), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > Le 15/09/2018 à 00:02, David Wright a écrit : > > On Fri 14 Sep 2018 at 09:02:22 (-0400), Dan Ritter wrote: > > > > > > The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two > > > versions of each. > > > > Wow. Why are my initrds only 5MB? I have MODULES=most in > > /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf. > > Weird. My initrds on i386 are arount 20 MB with MODULES=most. They > include additional stuff for LVM, RAID and a few firmwares, but kernel > modules are by far the biggest part. > What is your architecture ? I figured out what was going on: /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf can of course be overridden by entries in /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/ and, indeed, there is a /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/driver-policy lurking in there. The contents and timestamp indicate that the installer put it there. So it appears that the system is initialised with contradictory values, and MODULES=most is written into /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf regardless. Rather untidy. Cheers, David.
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| From | Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 01:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wy5Hc-6dn-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200128 |
On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 09:02:22AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote: > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 08:37:45AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > > So, make /boot a big larger, say couple GiBs, and set data=journalled > > > > BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition > > tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole > > OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the > > original DEC Alphas? > > > > The /boot on the desktop I'm using right now is 150MB. 70 is > currently used. > > The kernel is just over 4MB; the initrd is 22MB. There are two > versions of each. > > Grub eats almost 10MB. > > If you put all necessary drivers into the kernel rather than as > modules, and your system fits a particular set of criteria, you > can do without an initrd or initramfs entirely. So a really > minimal but fully capable system could get away with 20 or 30 MB > of /boot space. Real men chain boot their GIF compressed kernel directly from the floppy driver (since floppies are too slow without reading direct), and catting the piped results into deARC direct to CPU. Kids these days... > That said, even a really constrained system like a $35 Raspberry > Pi is likely to have 4 to 32 GB of storage available at boot > time. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujitsu_Eagle > > but you tell that to kids these days, and you might as well be > chasing them off your lawn.
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-14 15:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wxWaS-AF-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200125 |
Stefan Monnier wrote: > BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition > tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole > OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the > original DEC Alphas? you may consider removing old images that you do not use as they are not removed automatically AFAIR. I keep n, n-1 and rearly n-2 regards
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| From | Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-14 16:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wxXzX-1is-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200129 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 15:16:14 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello deloptes,
>I keep n, n-1 and rearly n-2
IIRC, the default behaviour is that if a) the kernel was automatically
installed and b) the user hasn't increased the number of kernels to
keep, anything from n-2 is marked removable.
--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
Walking through town is quite scary
I Predict A Riot - Kaiser Chiefs
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-14 19:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wy04N-2P1-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200129 |
>> BTW, am I the only one here bothered that his 250MB /boot partition
>> tends to fill up, even though a 500MB HDD was plenty to hold the whole
>> OS plus lots and lots of free space, on a 64bit workstation like the
>> original DEC Alphas?
> you may consider removing old images that you do not use as they are not
> removed automatically AFAIR.
> I keep n, n-1 and rearly n-2
Obviously that's what we all do, I think. My point was more
philosophical than asking for help, tho ;-)
I just find it amazing that the kernel has grown to be so big as to be
comparable to a complete unix distribution on a workstation of some
years ago (with GUI, compilers, ...).
And to a large extent they work identically (same windowing system, same
editor, same 1600x1200 screen resolution, ...).
Anyway... you can return to your regular daily Debianising,
Stefan
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-14 22:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wy2Jj-4pa-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200137 |
On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 01:23:31PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: >I just find it amazing that the kernel has grown to be so big as to be >comparable to a complete unix distribution on a workstation of some >years ago (with GUI, compilers, ...). Have you tried one of those lately? I keep some around on VMs, and they were *terrible*. It's nice every once in a while to remember how far we've come. Mike Stone
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| From | Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 08:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wycyZ-1Kv-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200147 |
On 14.09.18 16:10, Michael Stone wrote: > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 01:23:31PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > I just find it amazing that the kernel has grown to be so big as to be > > comparable to a complete unix distribution on a workstation of some > > years ago (with GUI, compilers, ...). > > Have you tried one of those lately? I keep some around on VMs, and they were > *terrible*. It's nice every once in a while to remember how far we've come. Yep, as Stefan implied, not a step forward. I cannot detect any difference between the SunOS-4.1.3 workstation I used just over a quarter of a century ago, and my current linux box. The four xterms I put up are still yellow on darkslategrey, from the same rgb.txt file as back then. GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers futz with look and feel, without adding life-enriching new functionality. I stopped upgrading Eagle years ago, as its UI just became harder to use. And Firefox/Iceweasel is slow as a wet week, sometimes crashes, and is mostly a PITA. Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE. At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, procmail, awk, and the other daily basics. Erik
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 10:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ext2 for /boot ??? |
| Message-ID | <wydOp-2D4-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200155 |
On Saturday 15 September 2018 02:40:14 Erik Christiansen wrote: > On 14.09.18 16:10, Michael Stone wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 01:23:31PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > > I just find it amazing that the kernel has grown to be so big as > > > to be comparable to a complete unix distribution on a workstation > > > of some years ago (with GUI, compilers, ...). > > > > Have you tried one of those lately? I keep some around on VMs, and > > they were *terrible*. It's nice every once in a while to remember > > how far we've come. > > Yep, as Stefan implied, not a step forward. I cannot detect any > difference between the SunOS-4.1.3 workstation I used just over a > quarter of a century ago, and my current linux box. The four xterms I > put up are still yellow on darkslategrey, from the same rgb.txt file > as back then. > > GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers futz with > look and feel, without adding life-enriching new functionality. I > stopped upgrading Eagle years ago, as its UI just became harder to > use. And Firefox/Iceweasel is slow as a wet week, sometimes crashes, > and is mostly a PITA. Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE. > Thats why I run TDE. > At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, procmail, > awk, and the other daily basics. > > Erik -- Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 10:20 +0200 |
| Subject | The big, the bloated and the hungry (Was: ext2 for /boot ???) |
| Message-ID | <wydY6-2G8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200159 |
Good Day, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> on 2018-09-15T10:04 CEST: > On Saturday 15 September 2018 02:40:14 Erik Christiansen wrote: > > GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers > > futz with look and feel, without adding life-enriching new > > functionality. I stopped upgrading Eagle years ago, as its > > UI just became harder to use. And Firefox/Iceweasel is slow > > as a wet week, sometimes crashes, and is mostly a PITA. > > Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE. > > > > At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, > > procmail, awk, and the other daily basics. > > Thats why I run TDE. If you wish software that sucks less, you might wish to consider building your own : https://suckless.org That's what I do for some time now, on top of Debian Sid. :-) Kind Regards, -- Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 10:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wyer8-2Pl-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200160 |
Étienne Mollier composed on 2018-09-15 10:15 (UTC+0200): > Gene Heskett on 2018-09-15T10:04 CEST: >> Erik Christiansen wrote: >>> GUI stuff now runs slower than back then, and developers >>> futz with look and feel, without adding life-enriching new >>> functionality. I stopped upgrading Eagle years ago, as its >>> UI just became harder to use. And Firefox/Iceweasel is slow >>> as a wet week, sometimes crashes, and is mostly a PITA. >>> Kdon't kget kme kstarted kon KDE. >>> At least the fusspots can't stuff up vim, mutt, fetchmail, >>> procmail, awk, and the other daily basics. >> Thats why I run TDE. > If you wish software that sucks less, you might wish to consider > building your own : > https://suckless.org > That's what I do for some time now, on top of Debian Sid. :-) KDE3 was stable and efficient, didn't need to be abandoned to (re)create KDE4 from scratch. In openSUSE, KDE3 remains available, though a little lighter for having lost most maintainers and a few packages. TDE, the KDE3 fork, hasn't lost any of what made KDE3 nice and stable, while acquiring a few improvements to match morphing technology, keeping stability, avoiding useless bloat, and not dumbing down its UI. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-15 11:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wyf3P-3gj-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200161 |
Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> on 2018-09-15T10:43 (CEST): > KDE3 was stable and efficient, didn't need to be abandoned to > (re)create KDE4 from scratch. In openSUSE, KDE3 remains > available, though a little lighter for having lost most > maintainers and a few packages. TDE, the KDE3 fork, hasn't > lost any of what made KDE3 nice and stable, while acquiring a > few improvements to match morphing technology, keeping > stability, avoiding useless bloat, and not dumbing down its > UI. I must acknowledge the qualities of KDE3, and most probably TDE, My first GNU/Linux computer ran a Mandriva 2007 (released late 2006) operating system, shipping by default with KDE 3.5. The box itself was some junk from early 2000 with average hardware even from these days standards. It is cool having seen that kind of user interface run on a AMD K6, 256 MiB RAM and 4 GiB of disk space for /, /home and the swap: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/images/a/ac/Screenshot2-1.jpg Since then, I left more room for wallpapers and xter^H^H^H^H st terminal emulators... Perhaps I should give a try to TDE one of these days, to bring back memory from my childhood. :-) Kind Regards, -- Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>
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| From | Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-16 16:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wyGx3-2gV-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200163 |
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 11:21:03 +0200 Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> wrote: ... > My first GNU/Linux computer ran a Mandriva 2007 (released late > 2006) operating system, shipping by default with KDE 3.5. The > box itself was some junk from early 2000 with average hardware > even from these days standards. > > It is cool having seen that kind of user interface run on a AMD > K6, 256 MiB RAM and 4 GiB of disk space for /, /home and the > swap: > > https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/images/a/ac/Screenshot2-1.jpg My first GNU/Linux system was BasicLinux, essentially a "Live F[loppy]DD" distribution. It's a whole 2.8MB, and runs off two floppies. I don't recall the exact details of its X implementation, but I still vividly remember the thrill I felt that first time when, after modprobing (or insmoding?) the appropriate ethernet driver and then configuring and bringing up the interface, I had a working *nix system with a working network connection! https://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/ Celejar
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| From | Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-18 19:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wzrvY-4vl-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200202 |
Just bragging. First booted linux on a 40MHz PS/2 Model 50 with 8MB RAM. It took X Windows about 10 minutes to start, but it was fully responsive once it was up. Used Twm in those days :-) still available I believe. I rebuilt the kernel once to add a driver. It took 2.5 days, but succeeded and booted. The distro was Linux Universe from the German publisher Springer. Prosit! Opaa! On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:41 AM Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 11:21:03 +0200 > Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> wrote: > > ... > > > My first GNU/Linux computer ran a Mandriva 2007 (released late > > 2006) operating system, shipping by default with KDE 3.5. The > > box itself was some junk from early 2000 with average hardware > > even from these days standards. > > > > It is cool having seen that kind of user interface run on a AMD > > K6, 256 MiB RAM and 4 GiB of disk space for /, /home and the > > swap: > > > > https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/images/a/ac/Screenshot2-1.jpg > > My first GNU/Linux system was BasicLinux, essentially a "Live > F[loppy]DD" distribution. It's a whole 2.8MB, and runs off two > floppies. I don't recall the exact details of its X implementation, but > I still vividly remember the thrill I felt that first time when, after > modprobing (or insmoding?) the appropriate ethernet driver and then > configuring and bringing up the interface, I had a working *nix system > with a working network connection! > > https://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/ > > Celejar >
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| From | Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-09-18 21:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The big, the bloated and the hungry |
| Message-ID | <wztxL-5Uh-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #200278 |
On 9/18/18 6:56 PM, Nicholas Geovanis wrote: > Used Twm in those days :-) still available I believe. Still available, still fast, and still in use if I trust windows decorations illustrating that work on window scaling: https://keithp.com/blogs/window-scaling/ I haven't used it a lot but I recall having had difficulties with its ergonomics. The program is indeed still available in the package “twm”. On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:41 AM Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote: > https://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/ Tinkering a bit with BasicLinux in Qemu, I confirm it is interesting to see how the system fits in the human mind: - /etc listing that fits in the screen - `ps aux` output after boot too - simple X programs spawning rxvt terms to show messages, configuration, calendars. Simple design is simple. The catch with the default X server “Xvesa” was that it had very few modes available, and a recommendation was to use the “Xserver” implementation provided in Slackware 4 if the screen was somewhere between supported modes, if this document is right: https://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/xvesa.html Thanks Celejar for the pointer! Kind Regards, -- Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org>
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