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Webmail?

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  Webmail? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-06-29 22:10 +0200
    Re: Webmail? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-06-29 22:50 +0200
      Re: Webmail? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-06-29 23:30 +0200
    Re: Webmail? Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2018-06-30 00:10 +0200
      Re: Webmail? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-06-30 10:10 +0200
    Re: Webmail? Philippe Clérié <philippe@gcal.net> - 2018-06-30 02:00 +0200
    Re: Webmail? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-06-30 09:30 +0200
      Re: Webmail? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-06-30 09:50 +0200
        Re: Webmail? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-06-30 10:50 +0200
          Re: Webmail? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-06-30 11:30 +0200
        Re: Webmail? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-06-30 11:00 +0200
          Re: Webmail? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-06-30 11:30 +0200
            Re: Webmail? "Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> - 2018-07-01 10:30 +0200
              Re: Webmail? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-07-01 10:50 +0200
                Re: Webmail? "Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> - 2018-07-01 11:50 +0200
                  Re: Webmail? Ulf Volmer <u.volmer@u-v.de> - 2018-07-01 17:30 +0200
                    Re: Webmail? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-07-02 14:30 +0200
                      Re: Webmail? Ulf Volmer <u.volmer@u-v.de> - 2018-07-02 20:10 +0200
                        Re: Webmail? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2018-07-03 11:50 +0200
      Re: Webmail? Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2018-07-01 05:00 +0200
    Re: Webmail? "Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> - 2018-07-01 10:00 +0200
      Re: Webmail? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-07-01 10:50 +0200

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#197036 — Webmail?

Anyone know of a webmail that works on stretch?

I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then prayer.

Roundcube works (allegedly) with apache. I'm not an expert on apache2,
but as far as I can see, there is an apache2.conf existing and enabled
for roundcube, and it leads via an alias to a real index.php in the
right place. I just get a 404, and I've tried with and without a
trailing slash and a final index.php. Yes, I've restarted apache2,
several times, and my other php stuff on the server works.

Prayer seems incomplete. There is no process running (it's supposedly
standalone) and the configuration file seems untouched from upstream. I
expect Debian packages to deal with the plumbing, connecting it to my
mailboxes and MTA, and setting any ports necessary, maybe asking me a
few questions. The configuration file contains no mention of anything
but University of Cambridge links, and the port is 80, despite my
having a working apache2 there throughout the installation. It may be
as simple as changing that to an unused port (plus associated firewall
fiddling) but I didn't try it, as I'm sure a lot of other stuff needs
doing. 

It was a long time ago that I put Squirrelmail, no longer a Debian
package, on my old server but I'm pretty sure I installed it and it
Just Worked. 

Does anyone have either of these packages working, or indeed Yet
Another webmail? I must make clear that it's a backup measure, I've yet
to find a webmail I could stand using every day, but I've found it
useful on several occasions when other things have stopped working.

-- 
Joe

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#197037

Joe wrote:

> Roundcube works (allegedly) with apache. I'm not an expert on apache2,
> but as far as I can see, there is an apache2.conf existing and enabled
> for roundcube, and it leads via an alias to a real index.php in the
> right place. I just get a 404, and I've tried with and without a
> trailing slash and a final index.php. Yes, I've restarted apache2,
> several times, and my other php stuff on the server works.

you disqualify for your own question

webmail is just an interface and yes you need a web server. It might be not
apache, but you must know how to configure and run web server.

last but not least the mail must come from somewhere, so you need a mail
backend server - usually IMAP to serve your mails and you need an SMTP
server to send/receive mails.

when you qualify for the 3 you may proceed, but anyway it is not for home
use - I mean you can run it at home, but anyhow you need to get your mail
from somewhere and send mail to somewhere and there are so many scenarios
and way that it is hard to put it in few sentences.

Most of the meaningful scenarios imply having a FQDN and MX record.

What people also do is use imapsync to sync to local imap and server the
mails.

What most people use is dovecot, exim, spam and antivirus software hooked to
exim and any mail client. I have also seen dbmail in use.

I am trying to save you some time and point you to the fact that this is not
something you setup in one day.

regards

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#197038

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 22:42:38 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

> Joe wrote:
> 
> > Roundcube works (allegedly) with apache. I'm not an expert on
> > apache2, but as far as I can see, there is an apache2.conf existing
> > and enabled for roundcube, and it leads via an alias to a real
> > index.php in the right place. I just get a 404, and I've tried with
> > and without a trailing slash and a final index.php. Yes, I've
> > restarted apache2, several times, and my other php stuff on the
> > server works.  
> 
> you disqualify for your own question
> 
> webmail is just an interface and yes you need a web server. It might
> be not apache, but you must know how to configure and run web server.
> 
> last but not least the mail must come from somewhere, so you need a
> mail backend server - usually IMAP to serve your mails and you need
> an SMTP server to send/receive mails.
> 
> when you qualify for the 3 you may proceed, but anyway it is not for
> home use - I mean you can run it at home, but anyhow you need to get
> your mail from somewhere and send mail to somewhere and there are so
> many scenarios and way that it is hard to put it in few sentences.
> 
> Most of the meaningful scenarios imply having a FQDN and MX record.
> 
> What people also do is use imapsync to sync to local imap and server
> the mails.
> 
> What most people use is dovecot, exim, spam and antivirus software
> hooked to exim and any mail client. I have also seen dbmail in use.
> 
> I am trying to save you some time and point you to the fact that this
> is not something you setup in one day.
> 

Yes it is, actually. I've been running an exim4/IMAP DNS-based mail
setup for nearly twenty years, I do know a bit about it. Webmail is an
accessory, that can work in addition to proper email. In the case of
Squirrelmail, that's exactly what it did. I was expecting roundcube to
similarly just 'drop in'.

-- 
Joe

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#197039

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 09:04:16PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> Anyone know of a webmail that works on stretch?
> 
> I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then prayer.
> 
> Roundcube works (allegedly) with apache. I'm not an expert on apache2,
> but as far as I can see, there is an apache2.conf existing and enabled
> for roundcube, and it leads via an alias to a real index.php in the
> right place. I just get a 404, and I've tried with and without a
> trailing slash and a final index.php. Yes, I've restarted apache2,
> several times, and my other php stuff on the server works.

So, Roundcube works like a charm here.

Are you willing to get down to „I seem unable to set it up“ rather than
„webmail in Debian is shit“?  If so, we could certainly proceed to finding
out why you fail setting it up 😜.

Cheers,
Nik

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#197043

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 23:59:50 +0200
Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 09:04:16PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> > Anyone know of a webmail that works on stretch?
> > 
> > I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then
> > prayer.
> > 
> > Roundcube works (allegedly) with apache. I'm not an expert on
> > apache2, but as far as I can see, there is an apache2.conf existing
> > and enabled for roundcube, and it leads via an alias to a real
> > index.php in the right place. I just get a 404, and I've tried with
> > and without a trailing slash and a final index.php. Yes, I've
> > restarted apache2, several times, and my other php stuff on the
> > server works.  
> 
> So, Roundcube works like a charm here.
> 
> Are you willing to get down to „I seem unable to set it up“ rather
> than „webmail in Debian is shit“?  If so, we could certainly proceed
> to finding out why you fail setting it up 😜.

Of course. It's been around for a while, and if it didn't work for
anybody, it would have been fixed by now. But much of my time was
spent poking around the web for clues, without success, so I've asked
here in case there's a simple 'ah, you forgot to do xxxx' that I
haven't found.

This is a web problem, nothing to do with roundcube, but as I said, as
far as I can see, the bits are in place for apache2 to work, I just
can't see why it isn't. This isn't the first alias/symlink php thing
I've had trouble with, but previously the cause has been obvious, a
missing or incorrect symlink, a filename wrong. For example, I've found
references to 'roundcubemail' as part of the calling URL, but the
apache2.conf file alias is clearly just 'roundcube'. I've tried both,
of course, just in case...

As for prayer, that just plain looks wrong, as if someone has taken an
in-house program from UofC and just dropped it into the Debian
repository, without actually adding the stuff to make it install
properly. I'm genuinely curious as to whether that works for anyone.
I've just replied here about mariadb, which in its early days in
Debian, also wasn't 'plumbed in' properly, so I know it can happen. But
there are a few more avenues to explore before I raise a bug report.

-- 
Joe

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#197040

On 06/29/2018 04:04 PM, Joe wrote:
> I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then prayer.

You probably skipped a couple of steps there. Before prayer, I usually 
go through head banging, hair pulling, troubleshooting, not to mention 
copious swearing, then maybe some sleep. The solution is often obvious 
in the morning, when I find that my problems were self inflicted.

:-D


-- 
Philippe

------
The trouble with common sense it that it is so uncommon.
<Anonymous>

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#197041

On 2018-06-29 21:04, Joe wrote:
> Anyone know of a webmail that works on stretch?
> 
> I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then prayer.

been using dovecot, roundcube, getmail for some time just for home 
network.
getting sieve to work was a chore for me but I'm not very good at this 
stuff.

the Dovecot wiki is very good.


mick



-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#197042

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 08:25:41 +0100
mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2018-06-29 21:04, Joe wrote:
> > Anyone know of a webmail that works on stretch?
> > 
> > I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then
> > prayer.  
> 
> been using dovecot, roundcube, getmail for some time just for home 
> network.
> getting sieve to work was a chore for me but I'm not very good at
> this stuff.
> 
> the Dovecot wiki is very good.
> 

I'm replacing a server, I've used Courier IMAP for many years but
decided to go with Dovecot this time. That was no trouble at all, it
Just Worked.

-- 
Joe

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#197044

On 2018-06-30 08:42, Joe wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 08:25:41 +0100
> mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2018-06-29 21:04, Joe wrote:
>> > Anyone know of a webmail that works on stretch?
>> >
>> > I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then
>> > prayer.
>> 
>> been using dovecot, roundcube, getmail for some time just for home
>> network.
>> getting sieve to work was a chore for me but I'm not very good at
>> this stuff.
>> 
>> the Dovecot wiki is very good.
>> 
> 
> I'm replacing a server, I've used Courier IMAP for many years but
> decided to go with Dovecot this time. That was no trouble at all, it
> Just Worked.

well you need to set up the databases

-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#197047

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:41:01 +0100
mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2018-06-30 08:42, Joe wrote:
> > On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 08:25:41 +0100
> > mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:
> >   
> >> On 2018-06-29 21:04, Joe wrote:  
> >> > Anyone know of a webmail that works on stretch?
> >> >
> >> > I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then
> >> > prayer.  
> >> 
> >> been using dovecot, roundcube, getmail for some time just for home
> >> network.
> >> getting sieve to work was a chore for me but I'm not very good at
> >> this stuff.
> >> 
> >> the Dovecot wiki is very good.
> >>   
> > 
> > I'm replacing a server, I've used Courier IMAP for many years but
> > decided to go with Dovecot this time. That was no trouble at all, it
> > Just Worked.  
> 
> well you need to set up the databases
> 

Debian does that sort of thing automagically. I have a working mariadb
so that will be used by anything that needs it.

-- 
Joe

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#197045

On 2018-06-30 08:42, Joe wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 08:25:41 +0100
> mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2018-06-29 21:04, Joe wrote:
>> > Anyone know of a webmail that works on stretch?
>> >
>> > I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then
>> > prayer.
>> 
>> been using dovecot, roundcube, getmail for some time just for home
>> network.
>> getting sieve to work was a chore for me but I'm not very good at
>> this stuff.
>> 
>> the Dovecot wiki is very good.
>> 
> 
> I'm replacing a server, I've used Courier IMAP for many years but
> decided to go with Dovecot this time. That was no trouble at all, it
> Just Worked.

I don't remember exactly
make sure apache is working and has php5 (isn't it ? ) in the protocols.
go through the steps using telnet in the dovecot wiki "testing the 
installation"
in the roundcube directory, think it is in config, there is a testing 
page that you make executable
which helpfully indicates what is and isn't working.


mick
-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#197046

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:56:50 +0100
mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2018-06-30 08:42, Joe wrote:
> > On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 08:25:41 +0100
> > mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:
> >   
> >> On 2018-06-29 21:04, Joe wrote:  
> >> > Anyone know of a webmail that works on stretch?
> >> >
> >> > I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then
> >> > prayer.  
> >> 
> >> been using dovecot, roundcube, getmail for some time just for home
> >> network.
> >> getting sieve to work was a chore for me but I'm not very good at
> >> this stuff.
> >> 
> >> the Dovecot wiki is very good.
> >>   
> > 
> > I'm replacing a server, I've used Courier IMAP for many years but
> > decided to go with Dovecot this time. That was no trouble at all, it
> > Just Worked.  
> 
> I don't remember exactly
> make sure apache is working and has php5 (isn't it ? ) in the
> protocols. 

No, stretch doesn't have php5. I've already had to go through loads of
php, replacing stuff which has been deprecated for a while and now no
longer exists.

> go through the steps using telnet in the dovecot wiki
> "testing the installation"
> in the roundcube directory, think it is in config, there is a testing 
> page that you make executable
> which helpfully indicates what is and isn't working.

OK, thanks, I'll give that a try next time I have some time.

-- 
Joe

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#197069

Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: Joe
> No, stretch doesn't have php5. I've already had to go through loads of
> php, replacing stuff which has been deprecated for a while and now no
> longer exists.

Ehm what?

Here php5 is working properly!
I run it on all of my servers.

You mean there is no php7 in Stretch!

-- 
Michelle Konzack        Miila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer     00372-54541400

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#197071

On Sun, 1 Jul 2018 11:22:14 +0300
"Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> wrote:

> Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: Joe
> > No, stretch doesn't have php5. I've already had to go through loads
> > of php, replacing stuff which has been deprecated for a while and
> > now no longer exists.  
> 
> Ehm what?
> 
> Here php5 is working properly!
> I run it on all of my servers.
> 
> You mean there is no php7 in Stretch!
> 

I'm sure it's doable if the need is great enough, but no, Debian
packages shows it in wheezy, jessie and sid only.

-- 
Joe

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#197074

Oi, I see, I have installed Stretch last year and PHP5 was there.
PHP7 is MOSTLY incompatible with PHP5!

However, it seems the php5 virtualpackage is still in place,
but not the corresponding real package,
which seems to be removed by the Debian Team.


Am 2018-07-01 hackte Joe in die Tasten:
> On Sun, 1 Jul 2018 11:22:14 +0300
> "Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> wrote:
>
>> Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: Joe
>> > No, stretch doesn't have php5. I've already had to go through
>> loads
>> > of php, replacing stuff which has been deprecated for a while and
>> > now no longer exists.
>>
>> Ehm what?
>>
>> Here php5 is working properly!
>> I run it on all of my servers.
>>
>> You mean there is no php7 in Stretch!
>>
>
> I'm sure it's doable if the need is great enough, but no, Debian
> packages shows it in wheezy, jessie and sid only.

-- 
Michelle Konzack        Miila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer     00372-54541400

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#197089

On 01.07.2018 11:43, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Oi, I see, I have installed Stretch last year and PHP5 was there.

No.

> However, it seems the php5 virtualpackage is still in place,
> but not the corresponding real package,
> which seems to be removed by the Debian Team.

there is no php5 in debian stretch.

best regards
Ulf

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#197128

On Sun, Jul 01, 2018 at 05:29:02PM +0200, Ulf Volmer wrote:
> On 01.07.2018 11:43, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > Oi, I see, I have installed Stretch last year and PHP5 was there.
> 
> No.
> 
> there is no php5 in debian stretch.

She probably upgraded from jessie, in which case the php5 that she had
in jessie remained in place after the upgrade to stretch.

As Ulf says, a *new* install of stretch will not be able to install
php5 unless you add a jessie source.

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#197138

On 02.07.2018 14:22, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 01, 2018 at 05:29:02PM +0200, Ulf Volmer wrote:

>> there is no php5 in debian stretch.
> 
> She probably upgraded from jessie, in which case the php5 that she had
> in jessie remained in place after the upgrade to stretch.

Yes, agree. And as we discussed in another thread in this list, purging
obsolete packages after a dist upgrade will also make sure that nobody
use unsupported packages like php5.

best regards
Ulf

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#197158

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, Jul 02, 2018 at 08:02:33PM +0200, Ulf Volmer wrote:
>On 02.07.2018 14:22, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 01, 2018 at 05:29:02PM +0200, Ulf Volmer wrote:
>
>>> there is no php5 in debian stretch.
>>
>> She probably upgraded from jessie, in which case the php5 that she had
>> in jessie remained in place after the upgrade to stretch.
>
>Yes, agree. And as we discussed in another thread in this list, purging
>obsolete packages after a dist upgrade will also make sure that nobody
>use unsupported packages like php5.

Shouldn't packages like that be removed by apt's "no longer depended on" 
logic?

For a long time, I've been using apt (and aptitude) with the mantra of 
"keep as much marked-as-auto as possible". Although I don't write php 
myself, I use packages (such as roundcube) which use php. Therefore I 
have roundcube marked as manually installed and any 
runtimes/libraries/data packages that it depends on marked as 
automatically installed. In that way, if roundcube upgrades from php5 to 
php7, and nothing else depends on php5, then apt simply removes it. 
Manually install the things YOU want, let apt automatically handle the 
rest.

Even on the machines where I've followed sid, this has generally worked 
out well.

-- 
For more information, please reread.

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#197059

On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 08:25:41AM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> On 2018-06-29 21:04, Joe wrote:
> > Anyone know of a webmail that works on stretch?
> > 
> > I've just spent half an afternoon trying first roundcube then prayer.
> 
> been using dovecot, roundcube, getmail for some time just for home network.
> getting sieve to work was a chore for me but I'm not very good at this stuff.

For sieve, make sure you batch-process your emails where
possible. E.g. for bastion end user workstation setup, getmail or
mpop to download in a batch, have it dump the incoming mails to a tmp
file, then run sieve on that file - I find mail dl excrutiatingly
slow without one of those batch downloaders, and sieve must compile
all the rules - no point doing that for each email, just for the
batch. Good luck,

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