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Groups > linux.debian.user > #196627 > unrolled thread

USB Host-Host cables

Started byRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
First post2018-06-13 13:40 +0200
Last post2018-06-17 13:50 +0200
Articles 12 on this page of 32 — 13 participants

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  USB Host-Host cables Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-06-13 13:40 +0200
    Re: USB Host-Host cables Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-06-13 17:00 +0200
      Re: USB Host-Host cables Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-06-13 22:00 +0200
        Re: USB Host-Host cables Ulf Volmer <u.volmer@u-v.de> - 2018-06-13 23:10 +0200
        Re: USB Host-Host cables Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-06-14 16:00 +0200
          Re: USB Host-Host cables Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-06-15 12:40 +0200
            Re: USB Host-Host cables Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-06-15 14:20 +0200
              Re: USB Host-Host cables Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-06-15 21:10 +0200
            Re: USB Host-Host cables Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-06-15 16:10 +0200
              Re: USB Host-Host cables Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-06-16 13:40 +0200
                Re: USB Host-Host cables Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-06-17 20:20 +0200
                  Re: USB Host-Host cables Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-06-18 00:10 +0200
                    Re: USB Host-Host cables Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-06-18 03:30 +0200
                      Re: USB Host-Host cables David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-06-19 02:40 +0200
                      Re: USB Host-Host cables Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2018-06-19 05:30 +0200
                        Re: USB Host-Host cables Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-06-19 13:50 +0200
                        Re: USB Host-Host cables rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-06-19 13:50 +0200
                          Re: USB Host-Host cables Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-06-19 14:10 +0200
                            Re: USB Host-Host cables rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-06-19 15:20 +0200
                              Re: USB Host-Host cables <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-06-19 16:50 +0200
                                Re: USB Host-Host cables rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-06-20 03:50 +0200
                          Re: USB Host-Host cables Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-06-19 14:50 +0200
                            Re: USB Host-Host cables rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-06-19 15:20 +0200
                            Re: USB Host-Host cables David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-06-21 04:00 +0200
                              Re: USB Host-Host cables Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-06-21 05:20 +0200
                                Re: USB Host-Host cables Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-06-21 10:40 +0200
                                  Re: USB Host-Host cables Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-06-21 17:50 +0200
                                  Re: USB Host-Host cables Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@surfnaked.ca> - 2018-06-21 17:50 +0200
                              Re: USB Host-Host cables Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-06-21 23:40 +0200
                            Re: USB Host-Host cables Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-06-21 07:30 +0200
                    Re: USB Host-Host cables Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-06-18 14:50 +0200
    A Bibliography [Re: USB Host-Host cables] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-06-17 13:50 +0200

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#196789

Fromrhkramer@gmail.com
Date2018-06-20 03:50 +0200
Message-ID<w2ApX-1pE-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196777
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 09:59:28 AM tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> Parallel doesn't necessarily mean 8 bit. And 100BaseT sends three voltage
> levels over the differential pair, so it's a tad more than 1.5 bits per
> "wire". But then, it's 4B5B (because it has to weave in the clock) so
> it's a tad less. 1 gigabit uses more pairs, but I guess each one is used
> serially (because of clock skew), so it's more like "a bundle of serial",

A good description ("bundle of serial").

> and uses a more complex modulation (PAM), so it's more bits/baud even.
> 
> I think the "classical" distinction serial/parallel breaks down a bit
> here...

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#196773

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2018-06-19 14:50 +0200
Message-ID<w2of7-2yj-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196771
On 2018-06-19, rhkramer@gmail.com <rhkramer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, June 18, 2018 11:27:55 PM Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> So I think your cable is much less "Serial" than you think.
>
> Just because I'm tired of seeing this thread (even though I make an often 
> feeble attempt to ignore it), I will mention that Ethernet is serial ;-)  
> (full duplex in many cases)
>

I was going to tell DW upthread a tad that grilled bread was complicated
because all the complexity was built into the toaster. 

But I didn't.

You either subscribe to Owlett's idiosyncratic, infuriatingly
wrong-headed, utterly intractable and narrow world or you do not. 

There is no middle ground.

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#196776

Fromrhkramer@gmail.com
Date2018-06-19 15:20 +0200
Message-ID<w2oI9-2WU-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196773
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 08:43:44 AM Curt wrote:
> I was going to tell DW upthread a tad that grilled bread was complicated
> because all the complexity was built into the toaster.
> 
> But I didn't.
> 
> You either subscribe to Owlett's idiosyncratic, infuriatingly
> wrong-headed, utterly intractable and narrow world or you do not.
> 
> There is no middle ground.

;-) (and +1)

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#196821

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2018-06-21 04:00 +0200
Message-ID<w2X3c-8ng-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196773
On Tue 19 Jun 2018 at 12:43:44 (+0000), Curt wrote:
> On 2018-06-19, rhkramer@gmail.com <rhkramer@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, June 18, 2018 11:27:55 PM Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> So I think your cable is much less "Serial" than you think.
> >
> > Just because I'm tired of seeing this thread (even though I make an often 
> > feeble attempt to ignore it), I will mention that Ethernet is serial ;-)  
> > (full duplex in many cases)
> >
> 
> I was going to tell DW upthread a tad that grilled bread was complicated
> because all the complexity was built into the toaster. 

That's why we bought a toaster oven. A toaster is more efficient at
toasting if the bread is thin enough, but a toaster oven performs
that role and many others too.

> But I didn't.
> 
> You either subscribe to Owlett's idiosyncratic, infuriatingly
> wrong-headed, utterly intractable and narrow world or you do not. 
> 
> There is no middle ground. 

If one answers such questions exactly as posed, then one often appears
to be condoning views that one might think are mistaken, and which
frequently morph as extra constraints and conditions added in follow-ups.

Cheers,
David.

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#196824

FromMichael Stone <mstone@debian.org>
Date2018-06-21 05:20 +0200
Message-ID<w2YiB-SC-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196821
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 08:57:14PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
>That's why we bought a toaster oven. A toaster is more efficient at
>toasting if the bread is thin enough, but a toaster oven performs
>that role and many others too.

Except that it sucks for toast. :D

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#196832

FromGene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Date2018-06-21 10:40 +0200
Message-ID<w33ih-3MU-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196824
On Wednesday 20 June 2018 23:15:18 Michael Stone wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 08:57:14PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> >That's why we bought a toaster oven. A toaster is more efficient at
> >toasting if the bread is thin enough, but a toaster oven performs
> >that role and many others too.
>
> Except that it sucks for toast. :D

it also sucks at annealing brass, despite playing with the thermostat 
calibrations, about 475F is as hot as it will get. Brass will anneal at 
475F but it takes about a 24 hour soak. I needed 800F and half an hour.



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#196837

FromGene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Date2018-06-21 17:50 +0200
Message-ID<w3a0p-7Gy-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196832
On Thursday 21 June 2018 11:40:07 Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 21/06/18 01:32 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 20 June 2018 23:15:18 Michael Stone wrote:
> >> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 08:57:14PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> >>> That's why we bought a toaster oven. A toaster is more efficient
> >>> at toasting if the bread is thin enough, but a toaster oven
> >>> performs that role and many others too.
> >>
> >> Except that it sucks for toast. :D
> >
> > it also sucks at annealing brass, despite playing with the
> > thermostat calibrations, about 475F is as hot as it will get. Brass
> > will anneal at 475F but it takes about a 24 hour soak. I needed 800F
> > and half an hour.
>
> If you have a self-cleaning oven, I think they get up to 900F during
> their cycle.  Don't tell your wife.  :-)

No wonder it takes so long, 6-7 hours on our gas range. We (I) keep it 
pretty clean so its been years since its been invoked. But thats 
probably a valid alternative the next time I go to make tapered gibs for 
a lathe, which my 70 yo Sheldon needs for the ultimate in cnc accuracy, 
but I've other wear to remove/replace before I get that picky with it.


-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#196838

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@surfnaked.ca>
Date2018-06-21 17:50 +0200
Message-ID<w3a0p-7Gy-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196832
On 21/06/18 01:32 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 20 June 2018 23:15:18 Michael Stone wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 08:57:14PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
 >>
>>> That's why we bought a toaster oven. A toaster is more efficient at
>>> toasting if the bread is thin enough, but a toaster oven performs
>>> that role and many others too.
>>
>> Except that it sucks for toast. :D
>
> it also sucks at annealing brass, despite playing with the thermostat
> calibrations, about 475F is as hot as it will get. Brass will anneal at
> 475F but it takes about a 24 hour soak. I needed 800F and half an hour.

If you have a self-cleaning oven, I think they get up to 900F during 
their cycle.  Don't tell your wife.  :-)

-- 
cgibbs@surfnaked.ca (Charlie Gibbs)

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#196843

FromBen Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Date2018-06-21 23:40 +0200
Message-ID<w3ft7-2BE-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196821
On 21/06/18 13:57, David Wright wrote:
> That's why we bought a toaster oven. A toaster is more efficient at
> toasting if the bread is thin enough, but a toaster oven performs
> that role and many others too.

But there are no USB toaster ovens:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/26/usb_toaster/

Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#196827

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2018-06-21 07:30 +0200
Message-ID<w30kp-23E-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196773
On 06/19/2018 07:43 AM, Curt wrote:
> On 2018-06-19, rhkramer@gmail.com <rhkramer@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> You either subscribe to Owlett's idiosyncratic, infuriatingly
> wrong-headed, utterly intractable and narrow world or you do not.
> 

I [the OP] state:
"Who?" "ME?" "Idiosyncratic?"
*ROFL*, SNICKER, CHUckle, chuckle ;/
Only for about three quarters of a century.

When I ask questions, I *have* done my homework. AND, wish my questions 
being read _literally_.

With the benefit of input from this forum, I've asked related questions 
elsewhere.

One response was:>
> One important thing to bear in mind, no one here seems to know
> the answer to your question (perhaps because we don't really
> know what your question is).
> The right, free-open-source choice here is to face and
> slay the dragon yourself, and then report back.
>

I've yet to "slay the dragon".
But I claim to have wounded it by posting:
    a bibliography
    a very preliminary of an outline

Stay tuned ;/

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#196749

FromMichael Stone <mstone@debian.org>
Date2018-06-18 14:50 +0200
Message-ID<w21LA-5K1-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196739
On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 06:04:35PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>Actually, IIUC the cable he got is basically two Ethernet-to-USB
>adapters connected together via an ethernet cable, all neatly packaged
>as a single physical object.  So except for the fact that he can't use
>any of the ethernet-to-USB adapters for some other purpose, he did get
>what "we" recommended and is universal.

No, it's a proprietary FIFO that presents a USB device on each end; it's 
not as generic as two ethernet devices.

Mike Stone

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#196733 — A Bibliography [Re: USB Host-Host cables]

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2018-06-17 13:50 +0200
SubjectA Bibliography [Re: USB Host-Host cables]
Message-ID<w1ElX-t8-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#196627
On 06/13/2018 06:29 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I have purchased a USB Host-Host cable based on the PL-25A1 chipset.
> Where would discussion about using it be *ON TOPIC* ?
> It is recognized by Debian Stretch.
> I have found relevant bits-n-pieces in manpages and package info.
> I'm retired and my avocation is learning about Linux.
> I'm missing background in:
>     USB interfacing
>     networking (in a broad sense)
> TIA
> 

These a links I'm finding useful in the _*EDUCATIONAL*_ aspects of my 
current project. I have read all of them. BUT will not claim to have 
fully comprehended.

Enjoy.


USBNET

http://www.linux-usb.org/usbnet/
http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/?selected=usb
http://www.zeroconf.org/

Some man pages

https://manpages.debian.org/stable/usbutils/lsusb.8.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/usbutils/usb-devices.1.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/usbutils/usbhid-dump.8.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/libusb2-dev/libusb.3.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/openssh-client/ssh.1.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/openssh-client/scp.1.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/freebsd-ppp/ppp.8.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/freebsd-manpages/ip.4freebsd.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/iproute2/ip.8.en.html
https://manpages.debian.org/stable/manpages/ip.7.en.html

misc package info

https://packages.debian.org/stable/usbutils
https://sources.debian.org/patches/usbutils/1:007-4/01-update-usb-ids.diff/

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