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Debian 9 sucks really badly

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  Debian 9 sucks really badly Chris Anderson <candersonmax@yahoo.com.au> - 2018-03-24 04:50 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Forest <forest.feighner@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 05:10 +0100
      Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly "Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> - 2018-03-24 05:40 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly "Michelle Konzack" <linux4michelle@tamay-dogan.net> - 2018-03-24 05:40 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 11:40 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Carl <carlf@panix.com> - 2018-03-24 12:30 +0100
      Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de> - 2018-03-24 12:50 +0100
        Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 13:50 +0100
          Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de> - 2018-03-24 14:10 +0100
      Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2018-03-24 15:40 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2018-03-24 12:50 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2018-03-24 13:00 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-03-24 13:20 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 13:50 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2018-03-24 14:50 +0100
      Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly André Verwijs <dutch.glory@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-24 15:40 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 15:40 +0100
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-03-24 16:00 +0100
      Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-03-24 19:30 +0100
        Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-03-24 19:40 +0100
          Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Fekete Tamás <fektom@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 20:40 +0100
            Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-03-24 22:10 +0100
        Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-03-25 13:20 +0200
    Re: Debian 9 sucks really badly Abdullah Ramazanoglu <ar018@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-24 20:10 +0100

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#194103 — Debian 9 sucks really badly

Hello

I have been using different flavours of Linux since slackware 96 over 20 
years ago. Since then I have installed and used at least a dozen 
different flavours. By far the most challenging was the X windows system 
for slackware but I managed to get it installed and running with no 
problems.

Last week I bought a new PC and decided to try debian so I downloaded 
the DVD version 9 and performed a fresh install besides windows 10. 
Right from the off, it fucked up, Grubb was a hassle as this was the 
default boot loader,(I have always used LILO), it would not find the 
windows partition, I managed to fix this. Then it didn't give me a 
choice of X windows manager, I was stuck with KDE, which I am familiar 
with and am aware of its may limitations and given the choice I wouldn't 
use KDE for installation and configuration.

Nearly everything fucked up from the Network install to the gcc make 
command, what a hassle and after spending nearly a week trying to get it 
all working I've had enough and am not wasting any more of my time on 
this awful software.

So thanks for wasting my time Debian and for future reference, go and 
get fucked!!!


Chris Anderson

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#194104

On Sat, 2018-03-24 at 14:01 +1030, Chris Anderson wrote:
> Hello
> 
> 
> So thanks for wasting my time Debian and for future reference, go
> and 
> get fucked!!!
> 
> 
> Chris Anderson
> 
> 

Even the BOFH went commercial!
http://www.bofharchive.com/

And you think LILO is bad; wait; till you get to systemd. :)

Did I mention lvm and kvm?

Best regard
Forest
 

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#194106

Good morning Forest,

Am 2018-03-24 hackte Forest in die Tasten:
> Even the BOFH went commercial!
> http://www.bofharchive.com/
>
> And you think LILO is bad; wait; till you get to systemd. :)

Hahaha, you made the day!

> Did I mention lvm and kvm?

ROTFL

> Best regard
> Forest

Have a nice weekend

-- 
Michelle Konzack        Miila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer     00372-54541400

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#194105

Hi Chris,

Am 2018-03-24 hackte Chris Anderson in die Tasten:
> Last week I bought a new PC and decided to try debian so I downloaded
> the DVD version 9 and performed a fresh install besides windows 10.

This works generaly nicely, because i have it on my ThinkPad T400 too.
However, with Windows 7.

> Right from the off, it fucked up, Grubb was a hassle as this was the
> default boot loader,(I have always used LILO),

Where is the problem?  You can select in the Debian installer to use
Lilo.

>  Then it didn't give me a
> choice of X windows manager, I was stuck with KDE, which I am familiar
> with and am aware of its may limitations and given the choice I
> wouldn't
> use KDE for installation and configuration.

Installing KDE is a choice, you can deselect it

> Nearly everything fucked up from the Network install to the gcc make
> command,

Which problem?

    apt-get build-essential

should pull almost anything into the system which let you use make and
and gcc.

> what a hassle and after spending nearly a week trying to get
> it
> all working

Did you ask the list for help?

This list is here, to help peoples and we do not need all this
negative mails like yours.

> So thanks for wasting my time Debian and for future reference, go and
> get fucked!!!

I use Debian now since beginning of 1999 and it mostly just worked.
OK, systemd is a nightmare but I got it nicely removed.

Also some other minor problems with bluetooth and network where
dependencies are missing if you do not use systemd.
But now anything is working perfectly.

Thanks to the mailingists with all its nice and competent subscribers.

> Chris Anderson

Have a nice weekend

-- 
Michelle Konzack        Miila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer     00372-54541400

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#194107

On 2018-03-24 03:31, Chris Anderson wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I have been using different flavours of Linux since slackware 96 over
> 20 years ago. Since then I have installed and used at least a dozen
> different flavours. By far the most challenging was the X windows
> system for slackware but I managed to get it installed and running
> with no problems.

Yah! Slackware
that was my introduction to Linux when it was on like 40 floppies, if 
you managed that Debian should be a doddle.


> So thanks for wasting my time Debian and for future reference, go and
> get fucked!!!
> 
> 

LOL


mick

-- 
Key ID	4BFEBB31

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#194108

On 03/23/2018 11:31 PM, Chris Anderson wrote:
> Hello
>
> I have been using different flavours of Linux since slackware 96 over 
> 20 years ago. Since then I have installed and used at least a dozen 
> different flavours. By far the most challenging was the X windows 
> system for slackware but I managed to get it installed and running 
> with no problems.
>
Hey, me too!
> Last week I bought a new PC and decided to try debian so I downloaded 
> the DVD version 9 and performed a fresh install besides windows 10. 
> Right from the off, it fucked up, Grubb was a hassle as this was the 
> default boot loader,(I have always used LILO), it would not find the 
> windows partition, I managed to fix this. Then it didn't give me a 
> choice of X windows manager, I was stuck with KDE, which I am familiar 
> with and am aware of its may limitations and given the choice I 
> wouldn't use KDE for installation and configuration.
>
> Nearly everything fucked up from the Network install to the gcc make 
> command, what a hassle and after spending nearly a week trying to get 
> it all working I've had enough and am not wasting any more of my time 
> on this awful software.
>
> So thanks for wasting my time Debian and for future reference, go and 
> get fucked!!!

Constructive.

I have issues with Debian, but screaming anger fits generally
speaking haven't helped me fix them.

I've tried things I don't like more than once in my life, and
I've rarely found that screaming anger fits helped.

In the Free Software world, the response to something not
working is generally:
1)If you know how, fix it and send the fix to the project so
it helps everyone, or,
2)If you don't know how to fix it, report the problem in a
useful way, so someone else can fix it and help everyone.
-- 
Carl Fink

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#194109

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

> In the Free Software world, the response to something not
> working is generally:
> 1)If you know how, fix it and send the fix to the project so
> it helps everyone, or,
> 2)If you don't know how to fix it, report the problem in a
> useful way, so someone else can fix it and help everyone.

I think the main problem here is that the user considers himself too
much of an expert and stops seeing the easy things, like the step in the
installer asking explicitly for the desktop environment to install. It's
right there, but they are too l33t to simply open their eyes.

Sometimes I make that mistake myself, actually ;).

-nik

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#194113

Dominik George wrote:

> I think the main problem here is that the user considers himself too
> much of an expert and stops seeing the easy things, like the step in the
> installer asking explicitly for the desktop environment to install. It's
> right there, but they are too l33t to simply open their eyes.

I guess its one of those brain fucked idiots that thinks he knows everything
better and does not understand why he should follow rules. After this he
comes and complains. In the meanwhile such people never have time to read
docs, because of course they know everything better and they do not listen
to anyone for the same reason. But yeah they can scream

regards

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#194116

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

> I guess its one of those brain fucked idiots

Although I realy agree with you, I don't think your tone is by any means
better, and you should instead lead by example and not insult anyone on
a Debian mailing list even if you are angry.

Cheers,
Nik

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#194121

Hi there!

Since DOS 6.0 and later in SuSE and Debian I learnd one thing:

Whenever things do not work, it is mostly my own fault.

So, when I hear "It's not working!" or  hardwer "This one sucks!", then the op 
mostly means "I do not know, how to fix it!" or harder "I am too stupid and 
not responsible, and also I am unwillingly to read or learn, how to fix it!"

My advice: If things do not work, Just use this friendly and helpful list, and 
ask kindly and nicely for help. Believe me, there is always a nice and kindly 
response.

And if you know something more than somebody else, let him know your knowledge 
and enlighten him. This is the way: Give, what you can give, and take, what 
you are offered. Work hand in hand.

I myself are no coder, but when I can help, I try to do. I am not always 
correct, nor do I know much better than others, but if I think, I can help, I 
try.

Have a nice weekend and have fun!

Best

Hans  

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#194110

                            ___________________________
                   /|  /|  |                          |
                   ||__||  |       Please don't       |
                  /   O O\__           feed           |
                 /          \       the trolls        |
                /      \     \                        |
               /   _    \     \ ----------------------
              /    |\____\     \     ||
             /     | | | |\____/     ||
            /       \|_|_|/   |    __||
           /  /  \            |____| ||
          /   |   | /|        |      --|
          |   |   |//         |____  --|
   * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     \-/
*-- _--\ _ \     //           |
  /  _     \\ _ //   |        /
*  /   \_ /- | -     |       |
  *      ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________


-- 
QOTD:
	"I'm on a seafood diet -- I see food and I eat it."

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@kalinowski.com.br

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#194111

Chris Anderson wrote:
> Hello
...

  sounds like these mistakes:

  - not using a netinst

  - not reading the installation guide

  so sorry...


  songbird

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#194112

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 02:01:13PM +1030, Chris Anderson wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I have been using different flavours of Linux since slackware 96 over 20
> years ago. Since then I have installed and used at least a dozen different
> flavours. By far the most challenging was the X windows system for slackware
> but I managed to get it installed and running with no problems.
> 
I am curious how if X for Slackware was by far the most challenging how
you managed to get it installed and running with no problems. Even in
distributions other than Slackware the configuration of X was
challenging during the time period you referenced.

> Last week I bought a new PC and decided to try debian so I downloaded the
> DVD version 9 and performed a fresh install besides windows 10. Right from
> the off, 

Did you read the installation manual [0] and release notes [1] first?
Did you do any research to see if your hardware vendor supports Linux in
general or Debian specifically? Did you do any research to see if anyone
had reported successfully installing Debian on that hardware? Is it very
new (e.g., new chipsets, video card, etc.) released in just the last few
months? Debian Stretch was released nearly a year ago and so very new
hardware may not be well supported.

> Grubb was a hassle as this was the default boot
> loader,(I have always used LILO),

Debian has used grub as the default boot loader for many years now. I am
curious what specific problem or defect you encountered here. Could you
describe it in detail and perhaps provide the associated error messages?
It would help with ensuring that there is a bug report regarding the
problem or documentation of a workaround.

> it would not find the windows partition, I
> managed to fix this.

How did you fix this? It would be helpful to others searching the list
archives if you could describe the problem and how you solved it.

> Then it didn't give me a choice of X windows manager, I
> was stuck with KDE, which I am familiar with and am aware of its may
> limitations and given the choice I wouldn't use KDE for installation and
> configuration.
> 

Again, did you read the installation manual? It clearly states
installing from CD may not make all graphical environments available.
Did you happen to download an installation CD with KDE as the default
environment? I am not aware of there being such differentiation for the
installation DVDs, so I would very much like to know where you
downloaded the DVD that forced installation of KDE.

> Nearly everything 
> from the Network install 

How did the network install fail? Is it that you used a netinstall image
and that did not produce the expected result, or did you use a standard
installer that failed to configure your machine's network hardware, or
both? Did the installer prompt you to load missing firmware files? This
also is documented in the installation manual.

> to the gcc make
> command, 

There is no "gcc make" command. The "make" and "gcc" commands are two
separate things. Michelle already addressed how to get this working in
another post. Though, I am very surprised that someone using Linux for
over 20 years would not have previously encountered this and known about
it.

> what a hassle and after spending nearly a week trying to get it all
> working I've had enough and am not wasting any more of my time on this awful
> software.
> 
I can certainly understand that if you spent your valuable time dealing
with unexpected installation problems that you would be frustrated. If
you experienced some difficulty and would like some assistance in
resolving the issues you encountered, it would be more helpful and
productive to provide information about the precise steps that you took,
the precise error messages that you encountered, and the result that you
expected.

> So thanks for wasting my time Debian and for future reference, go and get
> 
This is most definitely not constructive and is not the sort of language
or behavior that will encourage most people to try to help out.

That said, I have my doubts about your actual experience. It seems more
like you specifically sought an excuse to rant, or that you plunged into
an installation without noting that you had the incorrect installation
media or without first reading the documentation. I hope that I am
mistaken.

If you would like assistance in resolving the issues you encountered,
please provide the additional details requested.

Regards,

-Roberto

[0] https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/installmanual
[1] https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/releasenotes

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#194114

Chris Anderson wrote:

> Nearly everything fucked up from the Network install to the gcc make
> command, what a hassle and after spending nearly a week trying to get it
> all working I've had enough and am not wasting any more of my time on
> this awful software.
> 
> So thanks for wasting my time Debian and for future reference, go and
> get fucked!!!

Don't blame others for your incompetence. It is your own problem - see there
are hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of people using Debian and
you think it is problem with Debian - I think the problem is in your head.

Even more being rude shows the missing parts of your education as if someone
forced you to spend time with Debian - OMG what an IDIOT.

I don't wonder anymore from alledged Russian connections of Trump, to
alledged poisoning in Solsbery PLEASE shut down Facebook and Twitter and
all the stupid and useless web pages and SAVE THE PLANET and HUMANITY!

regards

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#194118

On Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:01:13 PM -03 Chris Anderson wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I have been using different flavours of Linux since slackware 96 over 20
> years ago. Since then I have installed and used at least a dozen
> different flavours. By far the most challenging was the X windows system
> for slackware but I managed to get it installed and running with no
> problems.
> 
> Last week I bought a new PC and decided to try debian so I downloaded
> the DVD version 9 and performed a fresh install besides windows 10.
> Right from the off, it fucked up, Grubb was a hassle as this was the
> default boot loader,(I have always used LILO), it would not find the
> windows partition, I managed to fix this. Then it didn't give me a
> choice of X windows manager, I was stuck with KDE, which I am familiar
> with and am aware of its may limitations and given the choice I wouldn't
> use KDE for installation and configuration.
> 
> Nearly everything fucked up from the Network install to the gcc make
> command, what a hassle and after spending nearly a week trying to get it
> all working I've had enough and am not wasting any more of my time on
> this awful software.
> 
> So thanks for wasting my time Debian and for future reference, go and
> get fucked!!!
> 
> 
> Chris Anderson

What you are telling us is:

1) You are able to eloquently express your dismay in writing
2) You are unwilling to either read menu items nor manuals nor release notes
3) You are expecting Debian install to have everything your way without 
contributing to Debian development
4) You don't ask for directions before walking down that lane nor asking for 
help being halfway down that lane
5) You never contributed anything to any mailinglist, not even slackware, 
under the e-mail address you used
6) You use words in writing that many would not touch with a pole
7) You show the traits of a toxic personality (whether you actually have one 
we don't know)

verdict: Troll

ZP6CGE QRZ

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#194122

true,  is not as stable and user friendly as (k)ubuntu or Opensuse, but 
it works. :)
André


Op 24-3-2018 om 14:44 schreef Eike Lantzsch:
> On Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:01:13 PM -03 Chris Anderson wrote:
>> Hello
>>
>> I have been using different flavours of Linux since slackware 96 over 20
>> years ago. Since then I have installed and used at least a dozen
>> different flavours. By far the most challenging was the X windows system
>> for slackware but I managed to get it installed and running with no
>> problems.
>>
>> Last week I bought a new PC and decided to try debian so I downloaded
>> the DVD version 9 and performed a fresh install besides windows 10.
>> Right from the off, it fucked up, Grubb was a hassle as this was the
>> default boot loader,(I have always used LILO), it would not find the
>> windows partition, I managed to fix this. Then it didn't give me a
>> choice of X windows manager, I was stuck with KDE, which I am familiar
>> with and am aware of its may limitations and given the choice I wouldn't
>> use KDE for installation and configuration.
>>
>> Nearly everything fucked up from the Network install to the gcc make
>> command, what a hassle and after spending nearly a week trying to get it
>> all working I've had enough and am not wasting any more of my time on
>> this awful software.
>>
>> So thanks for wasting my time Debian and for future reference, go and
>> get fucked!!!
>>
>>
>> Chris Anderson
> What you are telling us is:
>
> 1) You are able to eloquently express your dismay in writing
> 2) You are unwilling to either read menu items nor manuals nor release notes
> 3) You are expecting Debian install to have everything your way without
> contributing to Debian development
> 4) You don't ask for directions before walking down that lane nor asking for
> help being halfway down that lane
> 5) You never contributed anything to any mailinglist, not even slackware,
> under the e-mail address you used
> 6) You use words in writing that many would not touch with a pole
> 7) You show the traits of a toxic personality (whether you actually have one
> we don't know)
>
> verdict: Troll
>
> ZP6CGE QRZ
>
>

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#194123

On 03/23/2018 08:31 PM, Chris Anderson wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I have been using different flavours of Linux since slackware 96 over 20 
> years ago. Since then I have installed and used at least a dozen 
> different flavours. By far the most challenging was the X windows system 
> for slackware but I managed to get it installed and running with no 
> problems.
> 
> Last week I bought a new PC and decided to try debian so I downloaded 
> the DVD version 9 and performed a fresh install besides windows 10. 
> Right from the off, it fucked up, Grubb was a hassle as this was the 
> default boot loader,(I have always used LILO), it would not find the 
> windows partition, I managed to fix this. Then it didn't give me a 
> choice of X windows manager, I was stuck with KDE, which I am familiar 
> with and am aware of its may limitations and given the choice I wouldn't 
> use KDE for installation and configuration.
> 
> Nearly everything fucked up from the Network install to the gcc make 
> command, what a hassle and after spending nearly a week trying to get it 
> all working I've had enough and am not wasting any more of my time on 
> this awful software.
> 
> So thanks for wasting my time Debian and for future reference, go and 
> get fucked!!!
> 
> 
> Chris Anderson


Linus! Is that you?
-- 
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Sid/Testing - Trinity KDE 3.5 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda8
Registered Linux User #380263

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#194124

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Why is anybody replying to this?

It's quite clearly a drive-by complaint.  The OP is *not* going to
listen to advice or hear offers of help.  They won't get them - they're
not subbed to the list.

Even if we could go to their home and help set it up, they'd not be
interested because that would prove them wrong.

The OP will simply bad mouth Debian at any opportunity henceforth.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
You're all invited to a party, you don't even have to come
Get The Funk Out - Extreme

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#194132

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 02:51:27PM +0000, Brad Rogers wrote:
> Why is anybody replying to this?
> 
> It's quite clearly a drive-by complaint.  The OP is *not* going to
> listen to advice or hear offers of help.  They won't get them - they're
> not subbed to the list.
> 
There are those who will read this thread months or years down the line.
Despite the lack of information in the initial post, reasonable
responses that try to point users in the right direction might give
clues to future readers of this thread. Those responses will also
possibly save some readers the frustration of finding something that
resembles there own problem without any follow-up. Granted, the original
post and the follow-ups in this case are by necessity vague. However,
good responses are better than nothing in this case.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#194133

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 14:26:38 -0400
Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> wrote:

Hello Roberto,

>good responses are better than nothing in this case.

Good arguments, but I'm afraid vague won't do for help in the future.
Things will have changed, including Debian's installer.

One thing does ring out loud and clear, though:  Help is available, no
matter what.  In that sense, a win.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
I hope I live to relive the days gone by
Old Before I Die - Robbie Williams

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