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Multichannel audio listening (was: Live recording)

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  Multichannel audio listening (was: Live recording) Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-03-05 10:40 +0100
    Re: Multichannel audio listening (was: Live recording) Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-03-05 12:00 +0100
      Re: Multichannel audio listening (was: Live recording) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-05 14:50 +0100
        Re: Multichannel audio listening Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-03-05 17:20 +0100
          Re: Multichannel audio listening Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-03-05 18:00 +0100
          Re: Multichannel audio listening rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-05 18:10 +0100
        Re: Multichannel audio listening Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2018-03-06 00:00 +0100
    Re: Multichannel audio listening (was: Live recording) Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2018-03-06 20:30 +0100
      Re: Multichannel audio listening Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-03-07 10:10 +0100
        Re: Multichannel audio listening rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-07 20:30 +0100
          Re: Multichannel audio listening Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-03-07 22:40 +0100
            Re: Multichannel audio listening Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-03-08 15:30 +0100
        Re: Multichannel audio listening Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-03-07 20:40 +0100
          Re: Multichannel audio listening rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-03-07 20:50 +0100
        Re: Multichannel audio listening Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2018-03-07 22:20 +0100
          Re: Multichannel audio listening Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 15:20 +0100
            Re: Multichannel audio listening Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-03-08 15:40 +0100
              Re: Multichannel audio listening Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo.medina@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 16:10 +0100
                Re: Multichannel audio listening Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2018-03-08 20:50 +0100
                  Re: Multichannel audio listening Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2018-03-08 21:10 +0100
                  Re: Multichannel audio listening Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2018-03-08 21:50 +0100
                    Re: Multichannel audio listening Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2018-03-09 03:30 +0100
                      Re: Multichannel audio listening Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-03-10 08:20 +0100

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#193359 — Multichannel audio listening (was: Live recording)

Hi all.

After learning, some months ago, thanks to listers' help, how to live record
into a multi channel audio file, I was wondering about the reverse problem: now
I have my multi channel audio file, e.g. composed by three different channels.
Is it possibile (I guess it is), and how?, to send each of the three outputs
into a different loud speaker and so listen to the song...?

I hope I was clear enough...

Thanks for any help.

Rodolfo

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#193363

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018, at 09:39, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
> After learning, some months ago, thanks to listers' help, how to live record
> into a multi channel audio file, I was wondering about the reverse problem: now
> I have my multi channel audio file, e.g. composed by three different channels.
> Is it possibile (I guess it is), and how?, to send each of the three outputs
> into a different loud speaker and so listen to the song...?

Does your computer, or attached soundcard(s) have capacity to
drive three outputs at once?

If it does I think you'll need to tell whatever software controls that
hardware where to take audio-data from.  

Maybe 'sox' can direct audio to multiple channels, but I think you
will need to tell sox which hardware devices to use.  The section
of the sox manual, page 3, "Playing & Recording Audio" might help.

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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#193365

On Monday, March 05, 2018 05:49:45 AM Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018, at 09:39, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> Does your computer, or attached soundcard(s) have capacity to
> drive three outputs at once?
> 
> If it does I think you'll need to tell whatever software controls that
> hardware where to take audio-data from.
> 
> Maybe 'sox' can direct audio to multiple channels, but I think you
> will need to tell sox which hardware devices to use.  The section
> of the sox manual, page 3, "Playing & Recording Audio" might help.

Without having ever (intentionally) used jack (JACK (Jack Audio Connection 
Kit)), I would guess that it might be useful.

(Like Jeremy says, you will need 3 output devices.)  Somewhere along the line 
I bought some audio devices (my choice of words) that are, afaik, like a sound 
card built into a very small (USB) plug like device.  I can plug it into a USB 
and then plug stereo headphones into it--the device functions like a sound 
card, self powered from the USB port.

I bought those, as I often do such things, off ebay from the far East.

I suppose you might do a hinky workaround to get two output devices from one 
(stereo) sound card by (possibly after merging stereo signals into a mono 
signal) sending a different (mono) signal to each channel (i.e., left and 
right) of a stereo sound card, at least for a sort of feasibility test.

Do they make 5.2 or 7.2 sound cards for computers--if so, you could consider a 
similar approach using those 5 (or 7) channels.

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#193382 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

rhkramer@gmail.com writes:

> On Monday, March 05, 2018 05:49:45 AM Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018, at 09:39, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> Does your computer, or attached soundcard(s) have capacity to
>> drive three outputs at once?
>> 
>> If it does I think you'll need to tell whatever software controls that
>> hardware where to take audio-data from.
>> 
>> Maybe 'sox' can direct audio to multiple channels, but I think you
>> will need to tell sox which hardware devices to use.  The section
>> of the sox manual, page 3, "Playing & Recording Audio" might help.
>
> Without having ever (intentionally) used jack (JACK (Jack Audio Connection 
> Kit)), I would guess that it might be useful.
>
> (Like Jeremy says, you will need 3 output devices.)  Somewhere along the line
> I bought some audio devices (my choice of words) that are, afaik, like a
> sound card built into a very small (USB) plug like device.  I can plug it
> into a USB and then plug stereo headphones into it--the device functions like
> a sound card, self powered from the USB port.
>
> I bought those, as I often do such things, off ebay from the far East.
>
> I suppose you might do a hinky workaround to get two output devices from one 
> (stereo) sound card by (possibly after merging stereo signals into a mono 
> signal) sending a different (mono) signal to each channel (i.e., left and 
> right) of a stereo sound card, at least for a sort of feasibility test.
>
> Do they make 5.2 or 7.2 sound cards for computers--if so, you could consider
> a similar approach using those 5 (or 7) channels.


Let's then have a two-channels audio file, let's call it input.wav.  Sox should
be told to send channel 1 of input.wav to soundcard 1 and channel 2 of
input.wav to soundcard 2.  Having a look at sox manual, I didn't find anything
such...

Rodolfo

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#193387 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018, at 16:14, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

> Let's then have a two-channels audio file, let's call it input.wav.  Sox should
> be told to send channel 1 of input.wav to soundcard 1 and channel 2 of
> input.wav to soundcard 2.  Having a look at sox manual, I didn't find anything
> such...

I did say earlier:

> >> Maybe 'sox' can direct audio to multiple channels, but I think you
> >> will need to tell sox which hardware devices to use.  The section
> >> of the sox manual, page 3, "Playing & Recording Audio" might help.

You'll need to adapt the definition of the output device to whatever 
your hardware requires.   That is, I expect that setting AUDIODEV will
be the answer, but I can't say HOW you would set it.    You'd need to 
look at the manual for your specific hardware, I think.

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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#193390 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

On Monday, March 05, 2018 11:14:18 AM Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> Let's then have a two-channels audio file, let's call it input.wav.  Sox
> should be told to send channel 1 of input.wav to soundcard 1 and channel 2
> of input.wav to soundcard 2.  Having a look at sox manual, I didn't find
> anything such...
> 

My suggestion is jack (even though I've never used it)--have you looked at 
that?

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#193394 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

On 03/05/2018 08:43 AM, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

> Do they make 5.2 or 7.2 sound cards for computers--if so, you could consider a
> similar approach using those 5 (or 7) channels.


I'm using a 7.1 USB sound device quite successfully. They  are quite 
cheap, too. Ric


-- 
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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#193423

On Mon, Mar 05, 2018 at 10:39:19AM +0100, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
> After learning, some months ago, thanks to listers' help, how to live record
> into a multi channel audio file, I was wondering about the reverse problem: now
> I have my multi channel audio file, e.g. composed by three different channels.
> Is it possibile (I guess it is), and how?, to send each of the three outputs
> into a different loud speaker and so listen to the song...?
> 

Hi Rodolfo,

Ecasound is pretty convenient for routing audio.

If you connect three powered speakers to the first three
channels of a (sufficiently capable) soundcard and you're
using ALSA (the default low-level linux audio API), it's
pretty simple:

For example,

ecasound -i:3ch.wav -f:16,3,44100 -o:alsa,default
 
If you need to fool around with the routing, you can do
almost anything. For example, assuming  you have an
8-channel soundcard and want to route ch1 to ch5, ch2 to ch6
and ch3 to ch7:

ecasound -i:3ch.wav \
-f:16,8,44100  \
-chmove:1,5 \
-chmove:2,6 \
-chmove:3,7 \
-o:alsa,default

Maybe you need to add separate effects (e.g. volume control) to each channel:

ecasound \
-a:in -i:3ch.wav -o:loop,3ch \
-a:ch1,ch2,ch3 -i:loop,3ch \
-a:ch1 -chmove:1,5 -ea:80 \
-a:ch2 -chmove:2,6 -ea:70 \
-a:ch3 -chmove:3,7 -ea:60 \
-a:ch1,ch2,ch3 -f:16,8,44100 -o:alsa,default

There's a lot more you can do with ecasound, and there are
various front ends that provide a higher level of
abstraction.

Hope this helps,

> I hope I was clear enough...

> Thanks for any help.
> 
> Rodolfo
> 

-- 
Joel Roth
  

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#193448 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> writes:

> On Mon, Mar 05, 2018 at 10:39:19AM +0100, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> After learning, some months ago, thanks to listers' help, how to live record
>> into a multi channel audio file, I was wondering about the reverse problem:
>> now I have my multi channel audio file, e.g. composed by three different
>> channels.  Is it possibile (I guess it is), and how?, to send each of the
>> three outputs into a different loud speaker and so listen to the song...?
>> 
>
> Hi Rodolfo,
>
> Ecasound is pretty convenient for routing audio.
>
> If you connect three powered speakers to the first three
> channels of a (sufficiently capable) soundcard and you're
> using ALSA (the default low-level linux audio API), it's
> pretty simple:
>
> For example,
>
> ecasound -i:3ch.wav -f:16,3,44100 -o:alsa,default
>  
> If you need to fool around with the routing, you can do
> almost anything. For example, assuming  you have an
> 8-channel soundcard and want to route ch1 to ch5, ch2 to ch6
> and ch3 to ch7:
>
> ecasound -i:3ch.wav \
> -f:16,8,44100  \
> -chmove:1,5 \
> -chmove:2,6 \
> -chmove:3,7 \
> -o:alsa,default
>
> Maybe you need to add separate effects (e.g. volume control) to each channel:
>
> ecasound \
> -a:in -i:3ch.wav -o:loop,3ch \
> -a:ch1,ch2,ch3 -i:loop,3ch \
> -a:ch1 -chmove:1,5 -ea:80 \
> -a:ch2 -chmove:2,6 -ea:70 \
> -a:ch3 -chmove:3,7 -ea:60 \
> -a:ch1,ch2,ch3 -f:16,8,44100 -o:alsa,default
>
> There's a lot more you can do with ecasound, and there are
> various front ends that provide a higher level of
> abstraction.


Fantastic...  thanks, Joel.  I want to buy one of those multichannel
soundcards...  Do you think this one could be all right...?


https://www.strumentimusicali.net/product_info.php/products_id/51790/behringer-umc404hd.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAuP7UBRDiARIsAFpxiRKgsptPW1qxkEw793ahs684ltlhyh5dcIgzLJXtDh39CZA8IEX3qgIaAnquEALw_wcB

Rodolfo

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#193480 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

On Wednesday, March 07, 2018 04:06:12 AM Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> writes:
> > On Mon, Mar 05, 2018 at 10:39:19AM +0100, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> >> After learning, some months ago, thanks to listers' help, how to live
> >> record into a multi channel audio file, I was wondering about the
> >> reverse problem: now I have my multi channel audio file, e.g. composed
> >> by three different channels.  Is it possibile (I guess it is), and
> >> how?, to send each of the three outputs into a different loud speaker
> >> and so listen to the song...?
> > 
> > Hi Rodolfo,
> > 
> > Ecasound is pretty convenient for routing audio.
> > 
> > If you connect three powered speakers to the first three
> > channels of a (sufficiently capable) soundcard and you're
> > using ALSA (the default low-level linux audio API), it's
> > pretty simple:
> > 
> > For example,
> > 
> > ecasound -i:3ch.wav -f:16,3,44100 -o:alsa,default
> > 
> > If you need to fool around with the routing, you can do
> > almost anything. For example, assuming  you have an
> > 8-channel soundcard and want to route ch1 to ch5, ch2 to ch6
> > and ch3 to ch7:
> > 
> > ecasound -i:3ch.wav \
> > -f:16,8,44100  \
> > -chmove:1,5 \
> > -chmove:2,6 \
> > -chmove:3,7 \
> > -o:alsa,default
> > 
> > Maybe you need to add separate effects (e.g. volume control) to each
> > channel:
> > 
> > ecasound \
> > -a:in -i:3ch.wav -o:loop,3ch \
> > -a:ch1,ch2,ch3 -i:loop,3ch \
> > -a:ch1 -chmove:1,5 -ea:80 \
> > -a:ch2 -chmove:2,6 -ea:70 \
> > -a:ch3 -chmove:3,7 -ea:60 \
> > -a:ch1,ch2,ch3 -f:16,8,44100 -o:alsa,default
> > 
> > There's a lot more you can do with ecasound, and there are
> > various front ends that provide a higher level of
> > abstraction.
> 
> Fantastic...  thanks, Joel.  I want to buy one of those multichannel
> soundcards...  Do you think this one could be all right...?
> 
> 
> https://www.strumentimusicali.net/product_info.php/products_id/51790/behrin
> ger-umc404hd.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAuP7UBRDiARIsAFpxiRKgsptPW1qxkEw793ahs684ltl
> hyh5dcIgzLJXtDh39CZA8IEX3qgIaAnquEALw_wcB

Well, I'm not Joel, and I didn't read the description of that device 
thoroughly (actually I google for it and then read a little bit about it in 
English on Amazon), but I don't think that's what I had in mind when I 
suggested something like 1 5.2 or 7.2 (or should that be 5.1 or 7.1) 
soundcard.

The Amazon page I looked at:

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=behringer+umc404hd&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=178390564539&hvpos=1t2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=939372652501756766&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9006968&hvtargid=kwd-113850346562&ref=pd_sl_18vyq1e9hy_e

Starting with the obvious, it's not a sound card (it is a separate standalone 
device which can presumably be hooked to a computer, but I think the computer 
would still require a sound card in addition to this device, because) it is 
not clear to me that your computer can use this device to deliver 5 (or 7, or 
4) separate "channels" of sound to it.

So, I wouild read carefully and hope  for some more input from Joel.

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#193498 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

rhkramer@gmail.com writes:

> The Amazon page I looked at:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=behringer+umc404hd&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=178390564539&hvpos=1t2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=939372652501756766&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9006968&hvtargid=kwd-113850346562&ref=pd_sl_18vyq1e9hy_e


Fantastic...  On the back of the device I read `PLAYBACK OUTPUTS'.  I wish to
better understand those entries: two white, two red and four black.  Please
what's the difference between them, and how do they work?  Do they support four
couples of loud speakers...?  Further on the right, one more couple of black
entries, L and R, and then MAIN OUT: what for...?

Thanks

Rodolfo

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#193525 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 21:29, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

> Fantastic...  On the back of the device I read `PLAYBACK OUTPUTS'.  I wish to
> better understand those entries: two white, two red and four black.  Please
> what's the difference between them, and how do they work? 

There's 4 phono (RCA) sockets - the white and red ones, giving you 
conventional RCA/phono connections eg to an amplifier.  Those 
will be 'unbalanced' connections ie each has a signal and a screen.

Each of the four outputs is also provided on a 1/4-inch jack socket (the
four black holes you can see).  It's just a different type of connector 
providing the same output signal, possibly 'balanced' on a TRS (tip,
ring, sleeve) jack...

The specifications listed at
http://www.musictri.be/Categories/Behringer/Computer-Audio/Interfaces/UMC404HD/p/P0BK1
do not make it clear whether the four output 1/4" jacks are TRS or not, though it does
say that the 'main outputs' (presumaby a stereo monitor mix) are available on balanced
TRS jacks as well as balanced XLRs.

Ah... the "Quick Start Guide" available on:
http://www.musictri.be/Categories/Behringer/Computer-Audio/Interfaces/UMC404HD/p/P0BK1/downloads
has a more detailed list of what each socket is - those 4 'black holes' ARE 'TLS' jacks, ie balanced - 
that is there's three connections for each channel - the +ve half of a waveform, the -ve half, & the 
screen.  So if you were connecting the four channel outputs to domestic audio/hifi equipment you'd 
use the RCA phono jacks (the white and red ones) and if you were connecting it to studio equipment
that could handle/expected balanced connections you'd use the TLS jacks (black sockets).

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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#193482 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 09:06, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

> Fantastic...  thanks, Joel.  I want to buy one of those multichannel
> soundcards...  Do you think this one could be all right...?

> https://www.strumentimusicali.net/product_info.php/products_id/51790/behringer-umc404hd.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAuP7UBRDiARIsAFpxiRKgsptPW1qxkEw793ahs684ltlhyh5dcIgzLJXtDh39CZA8IEX3qgIaAnquEALw_wcB


You have two sets of requirements... the first is whether any box you select will 
actually work with linux (and of course Debian).  This discussion suggests it may
be ok:

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=17231

but there's always a risk that a firmware update on a box might alter the way it
works.  I'd suggest you google for more recent discussions of that box and linux.

You also of course require the thing to do what you want muscially.  There will be
lots of reviews around.    I'd suggest you read all the reviews on Amazon and other
sellers - it's when people mention the things they don't like about some unit that 
you'll learn more than when they talk about things that just work.

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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#193483 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

On Wednesday, March 07, 2018 02:37:46 PM Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018, at 09:06, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> > Fantastic...  thanks, Joel.  I want to buy one of those multichannel
> > soundcards...  Do you think this one could be all right...?

> You also of course require the thing to do what you want muscially.  There
> will be lots of reviews around.    I'd suggest you read all the reviews on
> Amazon and other sellers - it's when people mention the things they don't
> like about some unit that you'll learn more than when they talk about
> things that just work.

+1

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#193494 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> .... I want to buy one of those multichannel
> soundcards...  Do you think this one could be all right...?
> 
> 
> https://www.strumentimusicali.net/product_info.php/products_id/51790/behringer-umc404hd.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAuP7UBRDiARIsAFpxiRKgsptPW1qxkEw793ahs684ltlhyh5dcIgzLJXtDh39CZA8IEX3qgIaAnquEALw_wcB
> 
> Rodolfo

I looked around a bit, and the UMC404HD seems to be 'class
compliant' which means that the linux USB audio drivers can
access the most important functions. Behringer is definitely
on the low-cost end of things, but a lot of their hardware
seems to be of decent quality. 

A useful feature of this card is hardware monitoring, so
that you can listen to the audio during recording without a
time lag. 

Now that you've described your application (recording piano,
possibly with vocals) I think -- unless you're especially
comfortable and patient with low-level commands such as
ecasound provides -- you may like to run some kind of
multitrack recorder or DAW application. This will let you
adjust volume levels and add various plugins to the
different tracks. It's also common to duplicate a mono
signal to stereo and adjust the position right or left in a
stereo mix (e.g. panning).  

Someone already mentioned Audacity, which is quite easy to
use.

More sophisticated software lets you apply effects in
realtime, so it's easier to diddle with parameters. 

For professional quality with all possible features,
there is Ardour. Another very well developed application is
Qtractor. 

I'll also shamelessly mention a lightweight DAW called Nama
that provides the most important functions for recording and
mixing.  It's an application layer driven by text commands,
hotkeys and/or a simple GUI that runs Ecasound to provide
the signal processing. The debianized version is slightly
out of date, but you can at least get an idea of what it
looks like.  One of several unusual features is a preset
system that lets you set plugin defaults, re-use chains of
plugins, and create templates for groups of tracks or entire
projects. I'm the biased author ;-) 

For hardware or software questions you cannot answer by
reading the docs or doing a web search, I'll refer you to
the many experts on the Linux Audio Users mailing list
(LAU).

cheers,

-- 
Joel Roth
  

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#193524 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> writes:

> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> .... I want to buy one of those multichannel
>> soundcards...  Do you think this one could be all right...?
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.strumentimusicali.net/product_info.php/products_id/51790/behringer-umc404hd.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAuP7UBRDiARIsAFpxiRKgsptPW1qxkEw793ahs684ltlhyh5dcIgzLJXtDh39CZA8IEX3qgIaAnquEALw_wcB
>> 
>> Rodolfo
>
> I looked around a bit, and the UMC404HD seems to be 'class
> compliant' which means that the linux USB audio drivers can
> access the most important functions. Behringer is definitely
> on the low-cost end of things, but a lot of their hardware
> seems to be of decent quality. 
>
> A useful feature of this card is hardware monitoring, so
> that you can listen to the audio during recording without a
> time lag. 
>
> Now that you've described your application (recording piano,
> possibly with vocals) I think -- unless you're especially
> comfortable and patient with low-level commands such as
> ecasound provides -- you may like to run some kind of
> multitrack recorder or DAW application. This will let you
> adjust volume levels and add various plugins to the
> different tracks. It's also common to duplicate a mono
> signal to stereo and adjust the position right or left in a
> stereo mix (e.g. panning).  
>
> Someone already mentioned Audacity, which is quite easy to
> use.
>
> More sophisticated software lets you apply effects in
> realtime, so it's easier to diddle with parameters. 
>
> For professional quality with all possible features,
> there is Ardour. Another very well developed application is
> Qtractor. 
>
> I'll also shamelessly mention a lightweight DAW called Nama
> that provides the most important functions for recording and
> mixing.  It's an application layer driven by text commands,
> hotkeys and/or a simple GUI that runs Ecasound to provide
> the signal processing. The debianized version is slightly
> out of date, but you can at least get an idea of what it
> looks like.  One of several unusual features is a preset
> system that lets you set plugin defaults, re-use chains of
> plugins, and create templates for groups of tracks or entire
> projects. I'm the biased author ;-) 
>
> For hardware or software questions you cannot answer by
> reading the docs or doing a web search, I'll refer you to
> the many experts on the Linux Audio Users mailing list
> (LAU).


Many thanks...  I just need at the moment a modest home made live recording, so
it's enough to me just a small USB one (stereo) channel sound card.  I plug a
microphone into it and another couple of microphones in the built-in sound card
of the PC, through a special double mono cable.  That way I get two different
audio files, one for the voice and the other for the piano.  Then I merge them
together using Sox, so obtaining a 2-channel final remixed audio file, that can
be listen to from a normal stereo player.  What I want now, and for what I
started the present thread, is, as I said, to keep those three channels
separated and listen to them through three different loudspeakers.  Thanks to
the kind help from you listers, I understand that I need one of those
multichannel sound cards...

Regards

Rodolfo

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#193526 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, at 14:17, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

> What I want now, and for what I
> started the present thread, is, as I said, to keep those three channels
> separated and listen to them through three different loudspeakers.  Thanks to
> the kind help from you listers, I understand that I need one of those
> multichannel sound cards...

It's not normal to do that....  I mean I understand why you want to, I
think.  But consider: if someone records an orchestra on - say - 96
channels... they don't have 96 loudspeakers to listen to each of the
inputs at the same time.

Instead, a mixing desk would allow you to listen to any individual
channel through your studio loudspeakers ('monitors').  A decent
mixing desk usually offers, for each channel, something called PFL
(Pre Fade Listen) which lets you hear the signal on that channel
even if the fader on the channel is not turned up (so you can check 
the channel is working alright before bringing it into a mix).  There's
also 'Solo' which when the button is pressed would let you hear one
channel instead of the whole mix, often/usually 'in place' which
means in its position in the stereo mix.  So if that channel was panned
all the way to the left, when you Solo it you'd hear it only in the left
monitor.

Mixing desks (or equivalent audio software) tend to let you 'group'
channels together.  So eg (in an orchestra) you might have multiple
mics on the strings, more on wind instruments etc... and in the mixer
you might choose to group the wind instrument channels together,
so you could listen to all of them as one unit (in stereo), or all the 
strings together.  

Mixing desks (or software) don't just produce a single mix of the 
source channels.  In a theatre or concert hall there might be 
several places that some sounds have to be sent to, apart from 
an overall stereo recording.  

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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#193529 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> writes:

> On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, at 14:17, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>
>> What I want now, and for what I started the present thread, is, as I said,
>> to keep those three channels separated and listen to them through three
>> different loudspeakers.  Thanks to the kind help from you listers, I
>> understand that I need one of those multichannel sound cards...
>
> It's not normal to do that....  I mean I understand why you want to, I
> think.  But consider: if someone records an orchestra on - say - 96
> channels... they don't have 96 loudspeakers to listen to each of the
> inputs at the same time.
>
> Instead, a mixing desk would allow you to listen to any individual
> channel through your studio loudspeakers ('monitors').  A decent
> mixing desk usually offers, for each channel, something called PFL
> (Pre Fade Listen) which lets you hear the signal on that channel
> even if the fader on the channel is not turned up (so you can check 
> the channel is working alright before bringing it into a mix).  There's
> also 'Solo' which when the button is pressed would let you hear one
> channel instead of the whole mix, often/usually 'in place' which
> means in its position in the stereo mix.  So if that channel was panned
> all the way to the left, when you Solo it you'd hear it only in the left
> monitor.
>
> Mixing desks (or equivalent audio software) tend to let you 'group'
> channels together.  So eg (in an orchestra) you might have multiple
> mics on the strings, more on wind instruments etc... and in the mixer
> you might choose to group the wind instrument channels together,
> so you could listen to all of them as one unit (in stereo), or all the 
> strings together.  
>
> Mixing desks (or software) don't just produce a single mix of the 
> source channels.  In a theatre or concert hall there might be 
> several places that some sounds have to be sent to, apart from 
> an overall stereo recording.  


Yes, I understand that what I want to do is not normal and that normally one
tends to group and mix together several channels and voices...  but I think it
would be nice - just to try, as an experiment - to let them be separated when
they are just a few voices...

Rodolfo

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#193535 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

On 03/08/2018 10:07 AM, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, at 14:17, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>>
>>> What I want now, and for what I started the present thread, is, as I said,
>>> to keep those three channels separated and listen to them through three
>>> different loudspeakers.  Thanks to the kind help from you listers, I
>>> understand that I need one of those multichannel sound cards...
>> It's not normal to do that....  I mean I understand why you want to, I
>> think.  But consider: if someone records an orchestra on - say - 96
>> channels... they don't have 96 loudspeakers to listen to each of the
>> inputs at the same time.
>>
>> Instead, a mixing desk would allow you to listen to any individual
>> channel through your studio loudspeakers ('monitors').  A decent
>> mixing desk usually offers, for each channel, something called PFL
>> (Pre Fade Listen) which lets you hear the signal on that channel
>> even if the fader on the channel is not turned up (so you can check
>> the channel is working alright before bringing it into a mix).  There's
>> also 'Solo' which when the button is pressed would let you hear one
>> channel instead of the whole mix, often/usually 'in place' which
>> means in its position in the stereo mix.  So if that channel was panned
>> all the way to the left, when you Solo it you'd hear it only in the left
>> monitor.
>>
>> Mixing desks (or equivalent audio software) tend to let you 'group'
>> channels together.  So eg (in an orchestra) you might have multiple
>> mics on the strings, more on wind instruments etc... and in the mixer
>> you might choose to group the wind instrument channels together,
>> so you could listen to all of them as one unit (in stereo), or all the
>> strings together.
>>
>> Mixing desks (or software) don't just produce a single mix of the
>> source channels.  In a theatre or concert hall there might be
>> several places that some sounds have to be sent to, apart from
>> an overall stereo recording.
>
> Yes, I understand that what I want to do is not normal and that normally one
> tends to group and mix together several channels and voices...  but I think it
> would be nice - just to try, as an experiment - to let them be separated when
> they are just a few voices...
>
> Rodolfo
>
>
Somewhat off topic, but I'd like to know, if anyone reading here does,
what to do with a phono player that has four-channel output:
Four RCA jacks in the familiar red and black colors. I know there were
for a short time four-channel disks, but I only have a modern stereo
input amplifier. I believe that the original intent was to have two
speakers in front of you, and two speakers behind you.  And of course,
I only have stereo (2-channel) recordings. Anyone know what to do
with these outputs?
Thanks for any information--doug

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#193536 — Re: Multichannel audio listening

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, at 19:43, Doug wrote:

> Somewhat off topic, but I'd like to know, if anyone reading here does,
> what to do with a phono player that has four-channel output:
> Four RCA jacks in the familiar red and black colors. I know there were
> for a short time four-channel disks, but I only have a modern stereo
> input amplifier. I believe that the original intent was to have two
> speakers in front of you, and two speakers behind you.  And of course,
> I only have stereo (2-channel) recordings. Anyone know what to do
> with these outputs?

If you have no 4-channel discs, then I doubt it matters.  

You might want to try either the supposed-front pair, 
versus the supposed rear pair to see if you prefer the 
sound from one or other... supposing that the cartridge 
in the player is also 4-channel-capable.  If the cartridge
is a 2-channel one then presumably only one pair of 
outputs are connected anyway?

There's maybe a risk that playing stereo discs on the
player will damage the discs or the player.  I have no 
idea.

There may be websites, forums, or newsgroups where 
you could get better advice.  I used to spend a lot of time
on "rec.audio.pro", though asking there would be more 
an appeal to people who might know of such machines
rather than a pro-audio question.

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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