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Wheezy to Stretch

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  Wheezy to Stretch "Kleene, Steven (kleenesj)" <kleenesj@UCMAIL.UC.EDU> - 2018-02-21 19:00 +0100
    Re: Wheezy to Stretch Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-02-21 19:20 +0100
      Re: Wheezy to Stretch Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-02-21 19:40 +0100
    Re: Wheezy to Stretch Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-02-21 19:50 +0100
      Re: Wheezy to Stretch deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 20:20 +0100
        Re: Wheezy to Stretch Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-02-21 20:30 +0100
          Re: Wheezy to Stretch deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 21:20 +0100
      Re: Wheezy to Stretch john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-02-21 20:20 +0100
      Re: Wheezy to Stretch Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 21:50 +0100
        Re: Wheezy to Stretch Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-02-21 22:00 +0100
        Re: Wheezy to Stretch rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-02-22 04:10 +0100
          Re: Wheezy to Stretch Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2018-02-22 08:10 +0100
            Re: Wheezy to Stretch rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-02-22 14:10 +0100
            Re: Wheezy to Stretch Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-02-22 15:00 +0100
              Re: Wheezy to Stretch deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-22 18:40 +0100
                RE: Wheezy to Stretch "Kleene, Steven (kleenesj)" <kleenesj@UCMAIL.UC.EDU> - 2018-02-22 18:50 +0100
        Re: Wheezy to Stretch Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2018-02-22 11:30 +0100
    Re: Wheezy to Stretch Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 19:50 +0100
      Re: Wheezy to Stretch Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 22:00 +0100
        Re: Wheezy to Stretch Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-02-21 22:10 +0100
          Re: Wheezy to Stretch Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2018-02-21 22:40 +0100
            Re: Wheezy to Stretch Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-02-21 23:00 +0100
              Re: Wheezy to Stretch Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2018-02-21 23:20 +0100
                Re: Wheezy to Stretch Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2018-02-22 01:00 +0100
          Re: Wheezy to Stretch Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 22:40 +0100
        Re: Wheezy to Stretch deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 22:40 +0100
          Re: Wheezy to Stretch Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2018-02-21 22:50 +0100
            Re: Wheezy to Stretch Karol Augustin <karol@augustin.pl> - 2018-02-21 23:20 +0100
              Re: Wheezy to Stretch Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2018-02-22 01:20 +0100
            Re: Wheezy to Stretch deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2018-02-22 08:20 +0100
              Re: Wheezy to Stretch Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-02-22 11:20 +0100
    Re: Wheezy to Stretch Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2018-02-22 03:50 +0100

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#192827 — Wheezy to Stretch

I am running Wheezy (v7 = oldoldstable) and intend to replace it with a fresh
install of Stretch (v9 = stable) before Wheezy's support runs out on May
31st.  I will try the default systemd installation and see how I like it.

After the installation, I will want to build my system from my favorite
window manager (fvwm).  With sysvinit, I would set initdefault to runlevel 3
in /etc/inittab.  In /etc/rc3.d, I would rename gdm3 so that I would boot
into a terminal interface (command line) instead of Gnome.  Then I would
quickly install fvwm, call startx, and happily finish building.

I know systemd doesn't have inittab.  Will the default installation leave me
with a terminal interface whenever I boot?  If not, how will I accomplish
that?

I also thought I had read about some problem with window authentication in
Stretch, but I can't find any such posts now.

Thanks.

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#192830

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 05:45:51PM +0000, Kleene, Steven (kleenesj) wrote:
> With sysvinit, I would set initdefault to runlevel 3
> in /etc/inittab.  In /etc/rc3.d, I would rename gdm3 so that I would boot
> into a terminal interface (command line) instead of Gnome.  Then I would
> quickly install fvwm, call startx, and happily finish building.
> 
> I know systemd doesn't have inittab.  Will the default installation leave me
> with a terminal interface whenever I boot?  If not, how will I accomplish
> that?

Systemd does not have runlevels, but it is being developed primarily
by and for Red Hat systems, and therefore it *mimics* the Red Hat
runlevels remarkably.

Instead of runlevels, systemd has a "default target", which is the set
of services that should be brought up at boot time.  Which is basically
a runlevel by a different name.

The default target of systemd in Debian is "graphical.target", which
means that if you have installed a Display Manager (gdm3, lightdm,
etc.) it will be started at boot time.

If you don't want that, the other default target you can use is
named "multi-user.target".  This one will not run a Display Manager.

You can check your default target by running "systemctl get-default".

You can set your default target by running "systemctl set-default foo".

If you simply want to boot *once* into multi-user.target without
changing the default target, you can edit the kernel command line
and add the option "systemd.unit=multi-user.target".

Which is a whole lot more typing than adding the option "2" used to
be, but is otherwise almost 100% equivalent.

Another way you can achieve the goal of "not booting into a Display
Manager" is to remove your Display Manager package.  You can always
add it back later.

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#192833

Greg Wooledge composed on 2018-02-21 13:11 (UTC-0500):

> If you simply want to boot *once* into multi-user.target without
> changing the default target, you can edit the kernel command line
> and add the option "systemd.unit=multi-user.target".

> Which is a whole lot more typing than adding the option "2" used to
> be, but is otherwise almost 100% equivalent. 

5 works to override multi-user.target.

3 works to override graphical.target.

Systemd aliases the old runlevels to its targets, so that 'init [S,1-6]' and
'telinit [S,1-6]' can more or less work like they used to with SysV.

With RedHat's rpm runlevels, 3 nominally meant everything except GUI, with 2
nominally meaning multiuser without networking, but a lot of rpm distros
included basic networking in 2 and 3 was distinguished to include most services
that depend on functioning network.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#192835

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 10:39:54AM -0800, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> On 02/21/2018 09:45 AM, Kleene, Steven (kleenesj) wrote:
> > I am running Wheezy (v7 = oldoldstable) and intend to replace it with a fresh
> > install of Stretch (v9 = stable) before Wheezy's support runs out on May
> > 31st.  I will try the default systemd installation and see how I like it.
> 
> Okay, but I suggest instead you keep your wheezy system and your wheezy
> sources and do a upgrade using package upgrade-system, it will clean your
> system and then add the stretch sources including backports and run apt
> update & apt-upgrade and then run upgrade-system until your system is
> upgraded and clean, careful that sysvinit is not removed cause that package
> is not in stretch. You can also use apt dist-upgrade and deborphan.
> 
Note that upgrades skipping a release (e.g., wheezy -> stretch instead
of wheezy -> jessie -> stretch) are not supported. A fresh install
sounds like the better route in this case.

Also, adding backports sources for the target version during an upgrade
is a terrible idea. Packages in backports have not received upgrade
testing, so who knows what sort of a mess it could create.

For Steven, the best thing is to read the release notes and/or
installation manual and follow the instructions found there.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#192837

Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

> Note that upgrades skipping a release (e.g., wheezy -> stretch instead
> of wheezy -> jessie -> stretch) are not supported. A fresh install
> sounds like the better route in this case.

Roberto, OP said he want to replace wheezy with fresh install. Just FYI.

regards

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#192840

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 08:12:56PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> 
> > Note that upgrades skipping a release (e.g., wheezy -> stretch instead
> > of wheezy -> jessie -> stretch) are not supported. A fresh install
> > sounds like the better route in this case.
> 
> Roberto, OP said he want to replace wheezy with fresh install. Just FYI.
> 
Right. Then Jimmy made the rather unwise suggestion of upgrading
directly from wheezy to stretch and than also something about adding
backports source prior to upgrading.

I was simply reinforcing the OP's original position that a fresh install
is the right way to go.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#192842

Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

> Right. Then Jimmy made the rather unwise suggestion of upgrading
> directly from wheezy to stretch and than also something about adding
> backports source prior to upgrading.
> 
> I was simply reinforcing the OP's original position that a fresh install
> is the right way to go.

Sorry and thanks for clarification.

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#192839

On 2/21/2018 7:47 PM, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 10:39:54AM -0800, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
>> On 02/21/2018 09:45 AM, Kleene, Steven (kleenesj) wrote:
>>> I am running Wheezy (v7 = oldoldstable) and intend to replace it with a fresh
>>> install of Stretch (v9 = stable) before Wheezy's support runs out on May
>>> 31st.  I will try the default systemd installation and see how I like it.
>>
>> Okay, but I suggest instead you keep your wheezy system and your wheezy
>> sources and do a upgrade using package upgrade-system, it will clean your
>> system and then add the stretch sources including backports and run apt
>> update & apt-upgrade and then run upgrade-system until your system is
>> upgraded and clean, careful that sysvinit is not removed cause that package
>> is not in stretch. You can also use apt dist-upgrade and deborphan.
>>
> Note that upgrades skipping a release (e.g., wheezy -> stretch instead
> of wheezy -> jessie -> stretch) are not supported. A fresh install
> sounds like the better route in this case.
> 
> Also, adding backports sources for the target version during an upgrade
> is a terrible idea. Packages in backports have not received upgrade
> testing, so who knows what sort of a mess it could create.
> 
> For Steven, the best thing is to read the release notes and/or
> installation manual and follow the instructions found there.
> 

I agree with Roberto for both advices.

-- 
John Doe

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#192843

On 02/21/2018 10:47 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 10:39:54AM -0800, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
>> On 02/21/2018 09:45 AM, Kleene, Steven (kleenesj) wrote:
>>> I am running Wheezy (v7 = oldoldstable) and intend to replace it with a fresh
>>> install of Stretch (v9 = stable) before Wheezy's support runs out on May
>>> 31st.  I will try the default systemd installation and see how I like it.
>>
>> Okay, but I suggest instead you keep your wheezy system and your wheezy
>> sources and do a upgrade using package upgrade-system, it will clean your
>> system and then add the stretch sources including backports and run apt
>> update & apt-upgrade and then run upgrade-system until your system is
>> upgraded and clean, careful that sysvinit is not removed cause that package
>> is not in stretch. You can also use apt dist-upgrade and deborphan.
>>
> Note that upgrades skipping a release (e.g., wheezy -> stretch instead
> of wheezy -> jessie -> stretch) are not supported. A fresh install
> sounds like the better route in this case.
> 
> Also, adding backports sources for the target version during an upgrade
> is a terrible idea. Packages in backports have not received upgrade
> testing, so who knows what sort of a mess it could create.
> 
> For Steven, the best thing is to read the release notes and/or
> installation manual and follow the instructions found there.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -Roberto
I know what I'm talking about and if I can do it anybody can do it, 
Debian has given us all the tools we need to upgrade any stable release 
to current stable release or higher for that matter, thank about it. 
Just start with a simple upgrade first before tackling the other things, 
it's not rocket science after all.

Cheers,
-- 
Jimmy Johnson

Ubuntu 18.04 LTS - KDE Plasma 5.12.1 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9
Registered Linux User #380263

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#192846

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:40:51PM -0800, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> I know what I'm talking about

Same here.

> and if I can do it anybody can do it,

There is a big difference between *can* and *should*.

> Debian
> has given us all the tools we need to upgrade any stable release to current
> stable release or higher for that matter, thank about it.

>From the release notes [0]:

Direct upgrades from Debian releases older than 8 (jessie) are not
supported. Please follow the instructions in the Release Notes for
Debian 8 to upgrade to 8 first. 

> Just start with a
> simple upgrade first before tackling the other things, it's not rocket
> science after all.
> 

Correct. It is not rocket science. However, the suggestion you made is
far more likely to encounter problems, perhaps even very difficult to
recover problems, than the supported and *tested* upgrade path. There
are so many packages in Debian that you have no way of being certain
that any given upgrade will work without issues.

I have even done in place 32-bit -> 64-bit migrations. However, I would
not recommend that anyone try that without understanding the potential
risks. Your recommendation had a conspicuous lack of warnings concerning
the potential provblems associated with it.

Regards,

-Roberto

[0]
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#system-status

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#192871

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 03:40:51 PM Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> On 02/21/2018 10:47 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> > Note that upgrades skipping a release (e.g., wheezy -> stretch instead
> > of wheezy -> jessie -> stretch) are not supported. A fresh install
> > sounds like the better route in this case.

> 
> I know what I'm talking about and if I can do it anybody can do it,
> Debian has given us all the tools we need to upgrade any stable release
> to current stable release or higher for that matter, thank about it.
> Just start with a simple upgrade first before tackling the other things,
> it's not rocket science after all.

And what if their system has slightly different hardware or some other 
difference such that your advice doesn't work?  (AFAICT, the fact that Debian 
does not support an upgrade skipping a release means that little or no testing 
has been done and there is an indeterminate amount of risk.)

Will you stand behind the upgrade, and fix his system if there is a problem?  
(Site visits are usually not cheap.)

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#192873

On 02/21/2018 07:02 PM, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 03:40:51 PM Jimmy Johnson wrote:
>> On 02/21/2018 10:47 AM, Roberto C. S�nchez wrote:
>>> Note that upgrades skipping a release (e.g., wheezy -> stretch instead
>>> of wheezy -> jessie -> stretch) are not supported. A fresh install
>>> sounds like the better route in this case.
> 
>>
>> I know what I'm talking about and if I can do it anybody can do it,
>> Debian has given us all the tools we need to upgrade any stable release
>> to current stable release or higher for that matter, thank about it.
>> Just start with a simple upgrade first before tackling the other things,
>> it's not rocket science after all.
> 
> And what if their system has slightly different hardware or some other
> difference such that your advice doesn't work?  (AFAICT, the fact that Debian
> does not support an upgrade skipping a release means that little or no testing
> has been done and there is an indeterminate amount of risk.)


First off you're quoting something you have read and not from any real 
experience.  I can say this, I run 5 laptops and two desktops, one 
laptop is reaching it's end of life for kde plasma upstream, it's an 
older real IBM Thinkpad, while all the others are different makes and 
models, AMD and Intel, none are the same but they are running Wheezy, 
Jessie, Stretch, Buster, Sid, 14.04 lts, 16.04 lts, 18.04 lts and I test 
other systems of interest too and it keeps me busy, these are not 
virtual installs, they are real hardware installs and I fix my problems, 
that's how I learn, I've been doing this for more than 20 years, it's 
called experience, real experience. My main testing desktop has sid on 
sda15 and its probably broken with every release, been moved to more 
computers than I care to remember, but I fix it, clean it and keep 
going, so far this release, knock on wood and thinks to Debian upstream 
repairs have been minimal. Outside of machine language I'm not a coder, 
nor do I use machine language any longer.

> Will you stand behind the upgrade, and fix his system if there is a problem?
> (Site visits are usually not cheap.)
No more or less than anybody else here, I don't know the OP or what his 
capabilities are and my time is limited, but when I see a post where I 
can help I will, what else can you ask from a fellow Linux User.  Just 
one other thing, I'm not a joiner and I won't get held back. I'm done 
discussing this tread, unless the OP has a question for me. Your like a 
pack of wolf's ready to pounce on anything different than what you have 
read and some of you have not changed in the 20+ years I've been using 
Linux, you are bullies and mean to anyone different than you, and I am 
different than you period.

Cheers,
-- 
Jimmy Johnson - The Linux Tester

Ubuntu 18.04 LTS - KDE Plasma 5.12.1 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9
Registered Linux User #380263

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#192880

On Thursday, February 22, 2018 02:07:09 AM Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> On 02/21/2018 07:02 PM, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 03:40:51 PM Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> >> On 02/21/2018 10:47 AM, Roberto C. S�nchez wrote:
> >>> Note that upgrades skipping a release (e.g., wheezy -> stretch instead
> >>> of wheezy -> jessie -> stretch) are not supported. A fresh install
> >>> sounds like the better route in this case.
> >> 
> >> I know what I'm talking about and if I can do it anybody can do it,
> >> Debian has given us all the tools we need to upgrade any stable release
> >> to current stable release or higher for that matter, thank about it.
> >> Just start with a simple upgrade first before tackling the other things,
> >> it's not rocket science after all.
> > 
> > And what if their system has slightly different hardware or some other
> > difference such that your advice doesn't work?  (AFAICT, the fact that
> > Debian does not support an upgrade skipping a release means that little
> > or no testing has been done and there is an indeterminate amount of
> > risk.)
> 
> First off you're quoting something you have read and not from any real
> experience.  I can say this,

You are absolutely right about that--they (the developers) wrote that it is 
not supported.  Are you supporting it instead?

It's wonderful that it worked well for you, but can you (and will youi) 
guarantee that it will work well for others?

If so, why don't you contact Debian and offer to support such upgrades?

> I run 5 laptops and two desktops, one
> laptop is reaching it's end of life for kde plasma upstream, it's an
> older real IBM Thinkpad, while all the others are different makes and
> models, AMD and Intel, none are the same but they are running Wheezy,
> Jessie, Stretch, Buster, Sid, 14.04 lts, 16.04 lts, 18.04 lts and I test
> other systems of interest too and it keeps me busy, these are not
> virtual installs, they are real hardware installs and I fix my problems,
> that's how I learn, I've been doing this for more than 20 years, it's
> called experience, real experience. My main testing desktop has sid on
> sda15 and its probably broken with every release, been moved to more
> computers than I care to remember, but I fix it, clean it and keep
> going, so far this release, knock on wood and thinks to Debian upstream
> repairs have been minimal. Outside of machine language I'm not a coder,
> nor do I use machine language any longer.
> 
> > Will you stand behind the upgrade, and fix his system if there is a
> > problem? (Site visits are usually not cheap.)
> 
> No more or less than anybody else here, I don't know the OP or what his
> capabilities are and my time is limited, but when I see a post where I
> can help I will, what else can you ask from a fellow Linux User.  Just
> one other thing, I'm not a joiner and I won't get held back. I'm done
> discussing this tread, unless the OP has a question for me. 


> Your <sic> like a
> pack of wolf's 

I am one person. 


> ready to pounce on anything different than what you have
> read and some of you have not changed in the 20+ years I've been using
> Linux, you are bullies and mean to anyone different than you, and I am
> different than you period.
> 
> Cheers,

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#192881

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 11:07:09PM -0800, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> 
> First off you're quoting something you have read and not from any real
> experience.  

You have aboslutely no evidence to support your statement. I don't
think rhkramer has specifically stated whether he is basing his
statements on his own experience or what he read. However, others have
spoken up in this thread regarding your suggestion and the results are
mixed: some have tried and succeeded, while others have tried it and
failed.

> I can say this, I run 5 laptops and two desktops, one laptop is
> reaching it's end of life for kde plasma upstream, it's an older real IBM
> Thinkpad, while all the others are different makes and models, AMD and
> Intel, none are the same but they are running Wheezy, Jessie, Stretch,
> Buster, Sid, 14.04 lts, 16.04 lts, 18.04 lts and I test other systems of
> interest too and it keeps me busy, these are not virtual installs, they are
> real hardware installs and I fix my problems, that's how I learn, I've been
> doing this for more than 20 years, it's called experience, real experience.

I am not trying to minimize your experience, but by my count it is
likely that at most one or two of the systems you list might have been
subjected to a wheezy -> stretch upgrade. Now, you may have actually
tried it on all of them and then gone on to install different versions
or distros on them, but that is not really the point.

Your experience, though lengthy in terms of number of years, is
essentially anecdotal. If you approached this discussion saying that you
recommend the procedure after having attempted it on 10 server clusters
of 100 servers each in varying configurations, then that would be
different.

Put differently, I have done a fair amount of electrical work on my home
over the years. That, however, does not qualify me to read the national
eletrical code and respond with "those idiots have no idea what they are
saying." Many people, including Debian Developers, other Debian
contributors, and regular users have contributed to getting Debian to
where it is after more than 25 years. If you have a better approach,
please document it, publish it, post it to the appropriate mailing
lists, file wishlist bugs against the right packages, get others to test
it and reproduce your results, and then get it adopted by the project.
That is how consensus is built in a Free Software community.

Otherwise, please do others courtesy of being forthright by adding a
simple "I've done this one (or twice, or however many times) and it
worked for me and my configuration, but YMMV."

> No more or less than anybody else here, I don't know the OP or what his
> capabilities are and my time is limited, but when I see a post where I can
> help I will, what else can you ask from a fellow Linux User.

It is definitely a good thing to want to help fellow users. However,
please keep in mind that, as several others have pointed out, your
recommended course of action has some potential pitfalls. Beyond that,
it is even specifically discouraged in the official release notes. That
is not because some group of people sat around trying to think how they
could waste users' time and ruin their experience with Debian. Rather,
it was a concensus reached based on their collective knowledge and
experience. If you feel like that should be challenged, I have already
outlined the steps.

> Just one other
> thing, I'm not a joiner and I won't get held back. I'm done discussing this
> tread, unless the OP has a question for me. Your like a pack of wolf's ready
> to pounce on anything different than what you have read and some of you have
> not changed in the 20+ years I've been using Linux, you are bullies and mean
> to anyone different than you,
> 
I think you are perceiving personal attacks where none are being made.
It is common and natural to want to speak up when one hears bad advice
or advice without appropriate warnings being given. For example, if I
am talking with someone about how to reach some destination on foot and
say something like "and when you come to this busy intersection, just
close your eyes and start crossing the street and the cars will stop and
let you pass," it would not be at all surprising to hear that
challenged. We are taught from a young age that crossing the street is
dangerous and that there is a right way to do it.

Now, upgrading Debian is not dangerous like crossing the street (unlike
upgrading Windows or RedHat). However, for many users, a catastrophic
mishap during an upgrade would be very inconvenient. It might prevent
them from doing work, school, or some other important task. The other
participants in this thread are simply trying to be good netizens and
help their fellow user, same as you.

Please, continue lending assistance to your fellow users. As far as
places to find help, debian-user has always been one of the best places
for users of Debian (and even related distros) and has been around
longer than most other places to get help. We can always use more people
who know what they are doing to help those who encounter difficulty.
Just keep in mind that we all have different experiences and different
reasons for thinking and believing the things that we think and believe.

>  and I am different than you period.

We are all different from each other. That is what makes all of this so
much fun. :-)

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#192899

Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

> Just keep in mind that we all have different experiences and different
> reasons for thinking and believing the things that we think and believe.

I can only support this (in fact all your writing, but removed most of it to
make it easier to read).

12+ Years ago I had difficulties upgrading Debian and started following the
release notes. After this it was very easy to do an upgrade, because most
of the problems one would face during upgrade were already covered in the
release notes.
Even in the past few releases on one machine or type of setup it would work
and on another it would not and again the release notes were very helpful
to find a way out.

I would recommend anyone who wants to do an upgrade to follow the release
notes and contribute if facing problems.

regards

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#192902

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 12:45 PM, I wrote:

> I am running Wheezy (v7 = oldoldstable) and intend to replace it with a fresh
> install of Stretch (v9 = stable) before Wheezy's support runs out on May
> 31st.  I will try the default systemd installation and see how I like it.
> ...
> I know systemd doesn't have inittab.  Will the default installation leave me
> with a terminal interface whenever I boot?  If not, how will I accomplish
> that?

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 1:11 PM,Greg Wooledge [wooledg@eeg.ccf.org] replied:

> The default target of systemd in Debian is "graphical.target", which
> means that if you have installed a Display Manager (gdm3, lightdm,
> etc.) it will be started at boot time.
>
> If you don't want that, the other default target you can use is
> named "multi-user.target".  This one will not run a Display Manager.
>
> You can check your default target by running "systemctl get-default".
>
> You can set your default target by running "systemctl set-default foo".

That sounds like just what I need to know.  Thanks to you and to all of the
others who followed up with helpful discussions.
________________________________________
From: deloptes [deloptes@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 12:35 PM
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Wheezy to Stretch

Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

> Just keep in mind that we all have different experiences and different
> reasons for thinking and believing the things that we think and believe.

I can only support this (in fact all your writing, but removed most of it to
make it easier to read).

12+ Years ago I had difficulties upgrading Debian and started following the
release notes. After this it was very easy to do an upgrade, because most
of the problems one would face during upgrade were already covered in the
release notes.
Even in the past few releases on one machine or type of setup it would work
and on another it would not and again the release notes were very helpful
to find a way out.

I would recommend anyone who wants to do an upgrade to follow the release
notes and contribute if facing problems.

regards

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#192877

On 2018-02-21, Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> I know what I'm talking about ...

Dude, you're talking to a Debian developer.

OP, if you're reading this, I urge you to follow the advice of Roberto
and other wiser heads.

-- 

Liam

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#192836

On 02/21/2018 09:45 AM, Kleene, Steven (kleenesj) wrote:
> I am running Wheezy (v7 = oldoldstable) and intend to replace it with a fresh
> install of Stretch (v9 = stable) before Wheezy's support runs out on May
> 31st.  I will try the default systemd installation and see how I like it.

Okay, but I suggest instead you keep your wheezy system and your wheezy 
sources and do a upgrade using package upgrade-system, it will clean 
your system and then add the stretch sources including backports and run 
apt update & apt-upgrade and then run upgrade-system until your system 
is upgraded and clean, careful that sysvinit is not removed cause that 
package is not in stretch. You can also use apt dist-upgrade and deborphan.

> After the installation, I will want to build my system from my favorite
> window manager (fvwm).  With sysvinit, I would set initdefault to runlevel 3
> in /etc/inittab.  In /etc/rc3.d, I would rename gdm3 so that I would boot
> into a terminal interface (command line) instead of Gnome.  Then I would
> quickly install fvwm, call startx, and happily finish building.
> 
> I know systemd doesn't have inittab.  Will the default installation leave me
> with a terminal interface whenever I boot?  If not, how will I accomplish
> that?
> 
> I also thought I had read about some problem with window authentication in
> Stretch, but I can't find any such posts now.

I don't know of any current problems in stretch.

> Thanks.

Cheers,
-- 
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Buster - KDE Plasma 5.12.0 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda7
Registered Linux User #380263

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#192847

On 02/21/2018 10:39 AM, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> On 02/21/2018 09:45 AM, Kleene, Steven (kleenesj) wrote:
>> I am running Wheezy (v7 = oldoldstable) and intend to replace it with 
>> a fresh
>> install of Stretch (v9 = stable) before Wheezy's support runs out on May
>> 31st.  I will try the default systemd installation and see how I like it.
> 
> Okay, but I suggest instead you keep your wheezy system and your wheezy 
> sources and do a upgrade using package upgrade-system, it will clean 
> your system and then add the stretch sources including backports and run 
> apt update & apt-upgrade and then run upgrade-system until your system 
> is upgraded and clean, careful that sysvinit is not removed cause that 
> package is not in stretch. You can also use apt dist-upgrade and deborphan.
> 
>> After the installation, I will want to build my system from my favorite
>> window manager (fvwm).  With sysvinit, I would set initdefault to 
>> runlevel 3
>> in /etc/inittab.  In /etc/rc3.d, I would rename gdm3 so that I would boot
>> into a terminal interface (command line) instead of Gnome.  Then I would
>> quickly install fvwm, call startx, and happily finish building.
>>
>> I know systemd doesn't have inittab.  Will the default installation 
>> leave me
>> with a terminal interface whenever I boot?  If not, how will I accomplish
>> that?
>>
>> I also thought I had read about some problem with window 
>> authentication in
>> Stretch, but I can't find any such posts now.
> 
> I don't know of any current problems in stretch.


For all the "Na" Sayers here, nothing lost except for sometime and 
something to gan the system you want and if you can't make it work 
format and do a new system, but remember there is no "sysvinit" in Stretch.

Cheers,
-- 
Jimmy Johnson - "The Linux-Tester"

Ubuntu 18.04 LTS - KDE Plasma 5.12.1 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9
Registered Linux User #380263

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#192851

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:58:11PM -0800, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> For all the "Na" Sayers here, nothing lost except for sometime and something
> to gan the system you want and if you can't make it work format and do a new
> system, but remember there is no "sysvinit" in Stretch.

There is.  It's just not the default.

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