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Aptitude package manager "package"

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  Aptitude package manager "package" OECT T <oect_1964@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-24 02:20 +0100
    Re: Aptitude package manager "package" john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-01-24 07:50 +0100
    Re: Aptitude package manager "package" Floris <jkfloris@dds.nl> - 2018-01-24 10:30 +0100
      Re: Aptitude package manager "package" <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-01-24 11:00 +0100
        Re: Aptitude package manager "package" Floris <jkfloris@dds.nl> - 2018-01-24 11:10 +0100
          Re: Aptitude package manager "package" <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-01-24 11:30 +0100
        Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package" David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-01-24 16:10 +0100
          Re: Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package" <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-01-24 17:10 +0100
            Re: Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package" Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-01-24 17:50 +0100
              Re: Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package" David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-01-24 20:10 +0100
            Re: Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package" Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-01-24 18:20 +0100
          Re: Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package" Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-01-24 18:10 +0100
    Re: Aptitude package manager "package" Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2018-01-24 11:20 +0100
    Re: Aptitude package manager "package" Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-01-24 12:10 +0100
    Re: Aptitude package manager "package" Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-01-24 12:20 +0100
    Re: Aptitude package manager "package" davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2018-01-24 17:10 +0100

#191463 — Aptitude package manager "package"

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Hi all:


I just installed Debian Stretch 9.3.0 and noticed that the Aptitude package was not installed by default.

I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the package is not marked with the Debian icon indicating that the package is not supported.

I would appreciate any comments about it.

What other command line packages are recommended instead of Aptitude?

Is Aptitude or will be soon a deprecated package ? (Debian Reference still contains a good deal of information about Aptitude)

Regards

Oscar Corte

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#191465

On 1/23/2018 8:44 PM, OECT T wrote:
> 
> What other command line packages are recommended instead of Aptitude?
> 

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkgtools.en.html

-- 
John Doe

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#191466

Op Tue, 23 Jan 2018 20:44:19 +0100 schreef OECT T <oect_1964@hotmail.com>:

>
>
>
> Hi all:
>
>
>
>
>
> I just installed Debian Stretch 9.3.0 and noticed that the Aptitude  
> package was not installed by default.
>
>
>
> I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the package  
> is not marked with the Debian icon >indicating that the package is not  
> supported.
>
On my system (Debian sid) aptitude has the Debian logo in synaptics. Did  
you install and update the debian-keyring package? Or do you have an  
untrusted source in your sources.list? You can find the download source  
with "apt-cache policy aptitude"

(example)

$ apt-cache policy aptitude
aptitude:
   Installed: 0.8.10-6
   Candidate: 0.8.10-6
   Version table:
  *** 0.8.10-6 500
         500 http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
         500 http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

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#191467

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On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 10:21:45AM +0100, Floris wrote:
> Op Tue, 23 Jan 2018 20:44:19 +0100 schreef OECT T <oect_1964@hotmail.com>:

[...]

> >I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the
> >package is not marked with the Debian icon >indicating that the
> >package is not supported.
> >
> On my system (Debian sid) aptitude has the Debian logo in synaptics.

Folks, learn to use the web site. Just surf over to [1] and you can
query the current package database. For example, entering "aptitude"
into the form and choosing "any" as Distribution shows you what
distributions carry aptitude as a package [2] (and which versions
of said package are in each distrib).

For aptitude, it turns out that aptitude is in wheezy (aka 7, aka
(currently) oldoldstable), jessie (aka 8, aka oldstable), stretch
(aka 9, aka stable), buster (aka testing) and sid (aka unstable).

Thus either the icon in Synaptics is wrong (check your package
sources, check your update status) or whatever Synaptics is trying
to tell you with this icon is not what you think it's telling you.

Personally, I've perceived Synaptics as pretty unpredictable, but
I've never found out whether it's the program or it's me.

Cheers

[1] https://packages.debian.org/
[2] https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=aptitude&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
- -- t
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#191468

Op Wed, 24 Jan 2018 10:53:17 +0100 schreef <tomas@tuxteam.de>:

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>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 10:21:45AM +0100, Floris wrote:
>> Op Tue, 23 Jan 2018 20:44:19 +0100 schreef OECT T  
>> <oect_1964@hotmail.com>:
>
> [...]
>
>> >I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the
>> >package is not marked with the Debian icon >indicating that the
>> >package is not supported.
>> >
>> On my system (Debian sid) aptitude has the Debian logo in synaptics.
>
> Folks, learn to use the web site. Just surf over to [1] and you can
> query the current package database. For example, entering "aptitude"
> into the form and choosing "any" as Distribution shows you what
> distributions carry aptitude as a package [2] (and which versions
> of said package are in each distrib).

Thanks for explaining how to use the internet /s

> For aptitude, it turns out that aptitude is in wheezy (aka 7, aka
> (currently) oldoldstable), jessie (aka 8, aka oldstable), stretch
> (aka 9, aka stable), buster (aka testing) and sid (aka unstable).
>
> Thus either the icon in Synaptics is wrong (check your package
> sources, check your update status) or whatever Synaptics is trying
> to tell you with this icon is not what you think it's telling you.

Maybe you could point the OP a way how to find out what is wrong?

> Personally, I've perceived Synaptics as pretty unpredictable, but
> I've never found out whether it's the program or it's me.

Synaptics is very useful for users who wants a GUI for apt or dpkg. But I  
agree with you when there is a dependency issue it isn't very useful.

> [1] https://packages.debian.org/
> [2]  
> https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=aptitude&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
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> IFcAn3rFVl4j4Wk+WMd/fVAxRmqv7Cu8
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#191471

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On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 11:08:52AM +0100, Floris wrote:
> Op Wed, 24 Jan 2018 10:53:17 +0100 schreef <tomas@tuxteam.de>:

> >Folks, learn to use the web site [...]

> Thanks for explaining how to use the internet /s

Always glad to help.

> >For aptitude, it turns out that aptitude is in wheezy (aka 7, aka

[...]

> Maybe you could point the OP a way how to find out what is wrong?

Well, I did the start by pointing out how to double-check whatever
Synaptics is displaying. Since I don't have much experience with
it (I tried to explain why), I'll leave the second part to you.

Cheers
- -- t
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#191484 — Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package"

On Wed 24 Jan 2018 at 10:53:17 (+0100), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 10:21:45AM +0100, Floris wrote:
> > Op Tue, 23 Jan 2018 20:44:19 +0100 schreef OECT T <oect_1964@hotmail.com>:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > >I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the
> > >package is not marked with the Debian icon >indicating that the
> > >package is not supported.
> > >
> > On my system (Debian sid) aptitude has the Debian logo in synaptics.
> 
> Folks, learn to use the web site. Just surf over to [1] and you can
> query the current package database. For example, entering "aptitude"
> into the form and choosing "any" as Distribution shows you what
> distributions carry aptitude as a package [2] (and which versions
> of said package are in each distrib).
> [1] https://packages.debian.org/
> [2] https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=aptitude&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all

Hm. I had occasion to go to ¹ yesterday. (In passing, if I remove the
word "index", I end up at a different page ² but the results are the
same.) With the defaults (package names/stetch/any) I typed syslog.

With only 29 matches returned, I was surprised to also get the message
"Your keyword was too generic, for optimizing reasons some results
might have been suppressed. Please consider using a longer keyword or
more keywords." ³

OK, so syslog-ng seems to have more heads than a hydra, but what was
more concerning was that there was no mention of rsyslog (which was
what I was really interested in).

So forget using this page for anything really vague like kernel-image,
even if you set suite, section and then architecture; it can't even
show you the most basic generic versions like linux-image-686-pae, but
only "You have searched for packages that [sic] names contain kernel-image
in suite(s) stretch, all★ sections, and architecture(s) amd64." and
"Your keyword was too generic. Please consider using a longer keyword
or more keywords."

★ yes, selecting the architecture widens the sections back to all.

¹
https://packages.debian.org/index
²
https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages
³
https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=syslog&searchon=names&suite=stretch&section=all

Cheers,
David.

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#191485 — Re: Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package"

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On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 09:05:08AM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 24 Jan 2018 at 10:53:17 (+0100), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 10:21:45AM +0100, Floris wrote:
> > > Op Tue, 23 Jan 2018 20:44:19 +0100 schreef OECT T <oect_1964@hotmail.com>:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > >I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the
> > > >package is not marked with the Debian icon >indicating that the
> > > >package is not supported.
> > > >
> > > On my system (Debian sid) aptitude has the Debian logo in synaptics.
> > 
> > Folks, learn to use the web site. Just surf over to [1] and you can
> > query the current package database. For example, entering "aptitude"
> > into the form and choosing "any" as Distribution shows you what
> > distributions carry aptitude as a package [2] (and which versions
> > of said package are in each distrib).
> > [1] https://packages.debian.org/
> > [2] https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=aptitude&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
> 
> Hm. I had occasion to go to ¹ yesterday. (In passing, if I remove the
> word "index", I end up at a different page ² but the results are the
> same.) With the defaults (package names/stetch/any) I typed syslog.

[...]

> OK, so syslog-ng seems to have more heads than a hydra, but what was
> more concerning was that there was no mention of rsyslog (which was
> what I was really interested in).

Not a real solution, but a trick would be to choose "source packages";
this cuts down a few of the hydra's heads, and rsyslog shows then up.
Given that a source package gives birth to three binary packages (or
sometimes many more), some amount of combinatorial explosion is not
surprising.

> So forget using this page for anything really vague like kernel-image,
> even if you set suite, section and then architecture; it can't even
> show you the most basic generic versions like linux-image-686-pae, but
> only "You have searched for packages that [sic] names contain kernel-image
> in suite(s) stretch, all★ sections, and architecture(s) amd64." and
> "Your keyword was too generic. Please consider using a longer keyword
> or more keywords."

I do use that page as a second source, whenever I don't understand
what apt/aptitude are trying to tell me -- or whenever I'm looking
up something for a distribution I currently don't have access to.
For that, the page is invaluable to me, despite its defficiencies.

YMMV, and all that :-)

Cheers
- -- tomás
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#191491 — Re: Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package"

On 2018-01-24, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
>
>> > [1] https://packages.debian.org/
>> > [2] https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=aptitude&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
>> 
>> Hm. I had occasion to go to ¹ yesterday. (In passing, if I remove the
>> word "index", I end up at a different page ² but the results are the
>> same.) With the defaults (package names/stetch/any) I typed syslog.
>
> [...]
>
>> OK, so syslog-ng seems to have more heads than a hydra, but what was
>> more concerning was that there was no mention of rsyslog (which was
>> what I was really interested in).
>
> Not a real solution, but a trick would be to choose "source packages";
> this cuts down a few of the hydra's heads, and rsyslog shows then up.
> Given that a source package gives birth to three binary packages (or
> sometimes many more), some amount of combinatorial explosion is not
> surprising.
>

I ticked 'Descriptions' (for 'stable', 'any') which searches package
names and descriptions, and the keyword 'syslog' returned 101 matching
packages, of which rsyslog was one.

I'm not sure that demonstrates anything of any utility, though.

The page informed me of the following concerning the results:

 Note that this only shows the best matches, sorted by relevance. If the
 first few packages don't match what you searched for, try using more
 keywords or alternative keywords.

-- 
“True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class
is running the country.” – Kurt Vonnegut

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#191503 — Re: Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package"

On Wed 24 Jan 2018 at 16:38:24 (+0000), Curt wrote:
> On 2018-01-24, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> >
> >> > [1] https://packages.debian.org/
> >> > [2] https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=aptitude&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
> >> 
> >> Hm. I had occasion to go to ¹ yesterday. (In passing, if I remove the
> >> word "index", I end up at a different page ² but the results are the
> >> same.) With the defaults (package names/stetch/any) I typed syslog.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >> OK, so syslog-ng seems to have more heads than a hydra, but what was
> >> more concerning was that there was no mention of rsyslog (which was
> >> what I was really interested in).
> >
> > Not a real solution, but a trick would be to choose "source packages";
> > this cuts down a few of the hydra's heads, and rsyslog shows then up.
> > Given that a source package gives birth to three binary packages (or
> > sometimes many more), some amount of combinatorial explosion is not
> > surprising.
> >
> 
> I ticked 'Descriptions' (for 'stable', 'any') which searches package
> names and descriptions, and the keyword 'syslog' returned 101 matching
> packages, of which rsyslog was one.
> 
> I'm not sure that demonstrates anything of any utility, though.

Well, it nicely demonstrates that 29 was nowhere near the limit
that it feels it has to place on the number of results.

And as Debian fragments its packages more and more, perhaps
that limit should be (a) selectable and (b) behave as a
cut-off, ie display matches up to the limit instead of nothing.

Cheers,
David.

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#191494 — Re: Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package"

On 1/24/18, tomas@tuxteam.de <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 09:05:08AM -0600, David Wright wrote:

>> So forget using this page for anything really vague like kernel-image,
>> even if you set suite, section and then architecture; it can't even
>> show you the most basic generic versions like linux-image-686-pae, but
>> only "You have searched for packages that [sic] names contain
>> kernel-image
>> in suite(s) stretch, all★ sections, and architecture(s) amd64." and
>> "Your keyword was too generic. Please consider using a longer keyword
>> or more keywords."
>
> I do use that page as a second source, whenever I don't understand
> what apt/aptitude are trying to tell me -- or whenever I'm looking
> up something for a distribution I currently don't have access to.
> For that, the page is invaluable to me, despite its defficiencies.
>
> YMMV, and all that :-)


Absolutely. Searching packages for releases I don't have parked on a
partition at the moment is the biggest reason I turn to that webpage
these days. That type of search will most often be because of an
inquiry someone has made here on Debian-User. Seems like most often it
will be about the availability of packages that maybe Developers have
held back or some suchly.. :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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#191493 — Re: Packages web page, was Re: Aptitude package manager "package"

Good morning.. :) I just noticed Webmaster was CC'd here. I left that
in place because who knows when it comes to various Debian features
evolving their perks over time.. :)


On 1/24/18, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed 24 Jan 2018 at 10:53:17 (+0100), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 10:21:45AM +0100, Floris wrote:
>> > Op Tue, 23 Jan 2018 20:44:19 +0100 schreef OECT T
>> > <oect_1964@hotmail.com>:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> > >I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the
>> > >package is not marked with the Debian icon >indicating that the
>> > >package is not supported.
>> > >
>> > On my system (Debian sid) aptitude has the Debian logo in synaptics.
>>
>> Folks, learn to use the web site. Just surf over to [1] and you can
>> query the current package database. For example, entering "aptitude"
>> into the form and choosing "any" as Distribution shows you what
>> distributions carry aptitude as a package [2] (and which versions
>> of said package are in each distrib).
>> [1] https://packages.debian.org/
>> [2]
>> https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=aptitude&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
>
> Hm. I had occasion to go to ¹ yesterday. (In passing, if I remove the
> word "index", I end up at a different page ² but the results are the
> same.) With the defaults (package names/stetch/any) I typed syslog.


Sometime in the past, I accidentally figured out that it's trained to
redirect to search if you simply attach a sought after package name to
the end, e.g.

https://packages.debian.org/aptitude

That redirects to:

https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=aptitude

That feature's primary benefit is that the initial URL is short and
thus *cognitively friendly* to remember for the more generic of
searches. Yes, that's for simple, head on searches. No, that method is
not handy when one is trying to dig deeper in for answers.


> With only 29 matches returned, I was surprised to also get the message
> "Your keyword was too generic, for optimizing reasons some results
> might have been suppressed. Please consider using a longer keyword or
> more keywords." ³


I get that... A LOT... lol


> OK, so syslog-ng seems to have more heads than a hydra, but what was
> more concerning was that there was no mention of rsyslog (which was
> what I was really interested in).
>
> So forget using this page for anything really vague like kernel-image,


PERFECT example. kernel-image is the one that sent it into serious
tizzies for me a couple months ago. Whatever I encountered overwhelmed
it so much that I either tossed the search to the side to try again
later or reverted back to digging around in apt-cache that day.


> even if you set suite, section and then architecture; it can't even
> show you the most basic generic versions like linux-image-686-pae, but
> only "You have searched for packages that [sic] names contain kernel-image
> in suite(s) stretch, all★ sections, and architecture(s) amd64." and
> "Your keyword was too generic. Please consider using a longer keyword
> or more keywords."
>
> ★ yes, selecting the architecture widens the sections back to all.
>
> ¹
> https://packages.debian.org/index
> ²
> https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages
> ³
> https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=syslog&searchon=names&suite=stretch&section=all


I'm not sure why I do end up on packages.debian.org occasionally. I
primarily rely on "apt-cache search" for my own nosing around.

One thing I like about apt-cache is that you can do partial word
searches which is a *cognitively friendly* perk for me. For others,
that would be a negative perk because it brings in too much
information. A partial word example would be:

apt-cache search deskto environm

That particular perk has helped me answer at least one question here
on Debian-User, now that I think about it. Someone will be looking for
a package they absolutely cannot find. By chipping away at the end of
the sought after package name, apt-cache has eventually landed either
the correct package name or a viable alternative.

apt-cache gets a LOT of attention from me every day. For example, I've
never been 100% confident in my grasp of certain terms such as
"desktop environment" versus other concepts. Before I comment on that
topic anywhere, I sometimes turn to my apt-cache and plug that in to
make sure I'm using it correctly based on what packages apt-cache
returns for that phrase.

Another way I use apt-cache is to seek out a package that I know by
name then check out that package's description via "apt-cache show
[package-name]". I then take keywords from THAT description and plug
them back into "apt-cache search" to see if anything new looks worth
downloading for fun and giggles... not to mention potentially borking
an otherwise stable setup so as to have an excuse to check out
debootstrap yet again....... :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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#191470

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 07:44:19PM +0000, OECT T wrote:
>I just installed Debian Stretch 9.3.0 and noticed that the Aptitude
>package was not installed by default.
>
>I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the package
>is not marked with the Debian icon indicating that the package is not
>supported.

I do not know what conditions cause the Debian icon to appear or not
appear in Synaptic. However, aptitude is a first-class package in the
main area of the Debian archive, it's as supported as any other Debian
package in that place.

I think the use of aptitude *when performing a Debian release upgrade*
is not recommended anymore but for normal use it is perfectly fine.

-- 

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

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#191472

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 19:44:19 +0000
OECT T <oect_1964@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello OECT,

>I just installed Debian Stretch 9.3.0 and noticed that the Aptitude
>package was not installed by default.

With a Priority of 'optional', it won't be installed at installation
time unless you specifically request that it be.

>I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the package
>is not marked with the Debian icon indicating that the package is not
>supported.

That's not necessarily what the (lack of) icon means at all.  It can
simply be that the relevant package is not in 'main', but resides in
either 'contrib' or 'non-free'.  Of course, obsolete and local packages
won't have the Debian logo either because they're no longer in the
repos.  In Synaptic here (on a testing machine, as it happens) Aptitude
has the Debian logo alongside.

In any case, aptitude is listed as available in Stretch, so I'm not sure
as to why you're not seeing with the logo.  See;
https://packages.debian.org/stretch/aptitude

-- 
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         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
You can't go in if you don't look right
Outlaw - Chron Gen

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#191473

On Tue 23 Jan 2018 at 19:44:19 +0000, OECT T wrote:

> I just installed Debian Stretch 9.3.0 and noticed that the Aptitude
> package was not installed by default.

The correct conclusion to draw from this is that aptitude does not have
a Priority: higher than optional in stretch.
 
> I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the package
> is not marked with the Debian icon indicating that the package is not
> supported.

This conclusion has been comprehensively dealt with by Tomas.

> I would appreciate any comments about it.
> 
> What other command line packages are recommended instead of Aptitude?
> 
> Is Aptitude or will be soon a deprecated package ? (Debian Reference
> still contains a good deal of information about Aptitude)

No.

-- 
Brian.

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#191487

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018, OECT T wrote:

> Hi all:
>
>
> I just installed Debian Stretch 9.3.0 and noticed that the Aptitude
> package was not installed by default.
>
> I searched into Synaptics package manager and noticed that the
> package is not marked with the Debian icon indicating that the
> package is not supported.
>
> I would appreciate any comments about it.
>
> What other command line packages are recommended instead of
> Aptitude?

This reference work (which you cite)

  Debian Reference :: Chapter 2. Debian package management
  https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html

discusses

  * apt-get,
  * apt,
  * aptitude,

and even has a section devoted to a comparison of the three:

  2.2.1. apt vs. apt-get / apt-cache vs. aptitude
  https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_literal_apt_literal_vs_literal_apt_get_literal_literal_apt_cache_literal_vs_literal_aptitude_literal

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