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stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

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  stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN "D. R. Evans" <doc.evans@gmail.com> - 2018-01-18 22:40 +0100
    Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-01-18 22:50 +0100
      Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN "D. R. Evans" <doc.evans@gmail.com> - 2018-01-19 06:20 +0100
        Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-01-19 21:10 +0100
    Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-01-18 22:50 +0100
      Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN "D. R. Evans" <doc.evans@gmail.com> - 2018-01-19 06:20 +0100
      Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Andy Hawkins <andy@gently.org.uk> - 2018-01-19 12:50 +0100
        Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-01-19 13:10 +0100
          Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Andy Hawkins <andy@gently.org.uk> - 2018-01-19 13:30 +0100
            Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-01-19 15:10 +0100
              Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Andy Hawkins <andy@gently.org.uk> - 2018-01-19 15:30 +0100
        Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-01-19 14:50 +0100
          Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-01-19 15:10 +0100
          Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Andy Hawkins <andy@gently.org.uk> - 2018-01-19 15:20 +0100
            Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Rob van der Putten <rob@sput.nl> - 2018-01-19 16:20 +0100
              Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-01-19 17:40 +0100
              Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-01-19 20:40 +0100
          Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-01-19 16:20 +0100
            Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Andy Hawkins <andy@gently.org.uk> - 2018-01-22 18:30 +0100
              Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-01-22 23:30 +0100
                Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Andy Hawkins <andy@gently.org.uk> - 2018-01-23 10:30 +0100
                  Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-01-23 12:20 +0100
                    Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-01-23 14:50 +0100
                      Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-01-23 15:50 +0100
                        Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Andy Hawkins <andy@gently.org.uk> - 2018-01-23 17:10 +0100
                          Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-01-23 18:10 +0100
                            Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-01-23 21:00 +0100
                              Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-22 23:00 +0100
                                Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-02-24 10:00 +0100
                                  Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a   LAN Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-02-24 11:10 +0100
                                  Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-25 18:40 +0100
                                    Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-02-27 21:00 +0100
                                      Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-28 18:20 +0100
                                        Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-02-28 19:50 +0100
                                          Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-02-28 21:20 +0100
                                            Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-03-03 00:00 +0100
                                              Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a  LAN David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-04 20:30 +0100

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#191283 — stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

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I am trying to configure a debian stretch box to provide certain services to
my home network. (In the past this was a wheezy box, and I had everything
working fine. I have not changed the configuration of any other machine; so,
for example, DNS requests from machines on the LAN are still sent to the
stretch machine for resolution.)

Somehow I can't get name resolution to work except locally on the stretch box
itself.

Can someone please point me to intelligible instructions as to how to have the
stretch box respond correctly to remote DNS requests coming in over the local
network?

This seems to be one of those things that systemd has taken over ("named" is
no longer available in the repository, for example, presumably because it's no
longer needed), and my attempts to find documentation on how to configure a
machine as a DNS server under systemd have failed, probably because I'm not
being sufficiently smart about search terms.

Just to be clear:
  1. If I ping a destination by name from the stretch box, it resolves the
name and pings the destination.
  2. If I ping the IP address of a destination on the internet from a machine
on the LAN, the ping works.
  3. If I ping a destination on the internet *by name* from a machine on the
LAN, the ping does not work.
  4. Any attempt to resolve a name from a machine on the LAN fails; attempting
to resolve the same name from the stretch machine works.

Thanks for any help.

  Doc

-- 
Web:  http://enginehousebooks.com/drevans

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#191284 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

Le 18/01/2018 à 22:34, D. R. Evans a écrit :
> I am trying to configure a debian stretch box to provide certain services to
> my home network. (In the past this was a wheezy box, and I had everything
> working fine. I have not changed the configuration of any other machine; so,
> for example, DNS requests from machines on the LAN are still sent to the
> stretch machine for resolution.)
> 
> Somehow I can't get name resolution to work except locally on the stretch box
> itself.
> 
> Can someone please point me to intelligible instructions as to how to have the
> stretch box respond correctly to remote DNS requests coming in over the local
> network?
> 
> This seems to be one of those things that systemd has taken over ("named" is
> no longer available in the repository, for example, presumably because it's no
> longer needed), and my attempts to find documentation on how to configure a
> machine as a DNS server under systemd have failed, probably because I'm not
> being sufficiently smart about search terms.

named is not a package name. The package name is and has always been 
bind9. Note that there are other recursive DNS server packages such as 
unbound.

> Just to be clear:
>    1. If I ping a destination by name from the stretch box, it resolves the
> name and pings the destination.
>    2. If I ping the IP address of a destination on the internet from a machine
> on the LAN, the ping works.
>    3. If I ping a destination on the internet *by name* from a machine on the
> LAN, the ping does not work.
>    4. Any attempt to resolve a name from a machine on the LAN fails; attempting
> to resolve the same name from the stretch machine works.

Note : ping is not a proper DNS tool becaus it calls the libc resolver 
for name resolution, which may use other name sources than DNS. Use dig, 
host or nslookup instead.

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#191298 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

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Pascal Hambourg wrote on 01/18/2018 02:41 PM:

> 
> named is not a package name. The package name is and has always been 
> bind9. Note that there are other recursive DNS server packages such as 
> unbound.

Ah! It's been so long since I've built a system that didn't install bind
automatically that I'd completely forgotten that. Thank you for reminding me.

> 
> Note : ping is not a proper DNS tool becaus it calls the libc resolver 
> for name resolution, which may use other name sources than DNS. Use dig, 
> host or nslookup instead.

I admit that I'm quite surprised that everything doesn't use the libc resolver
(by which I assume you mean the operations performed by gethostbyname() or
something equivalent). I should look at the code for dig or nslookup sometime
to see how they resolve names.

Anyway, thanks very much for the comment about bind. I installed it, and
indeed it seems to be performing as expected.

  Doc

-- 
Web:  http://enginehousebooks.com/drevans

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#191348 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

Le 19/01/2018 à 06:10, D. R. Evans a écrit :
> Pascal Hambourg wrote on 01/18/2018 02:41 PM:
>>
>> Note : ping is not a proper DNS tool becaus it calls the libc resolver
>> for name resolution, which may use other name sources than DNS. Use dig,
>> host or nslookup instead.
> 
> I admit that I'm quite surprised that everything doesn't use the libc resolver
> (by which I assume you mean the operations performed by gethostbyname() or
> something equivalent). I should look at the code for dig or nslookup sometime
> to see how they resolve names.

DNS tools directly send DNS queries to the specified nameserver. They 
may use the libc resolver only to resolve the nameserver hostname (if 
the nameserver is specified by hostname) or get the nameserver address 
list from /etc/resolv.conf (if a nameserver is not specified).

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#191285 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 02:34:50PM -0700, D. R. Evans wrote:
> Can someone please point me to intelligible instructions as to how to have the
> stretch box respond correctly to remote DNS requests coming in over the local
> network?

Install a name server.  Make sure it's listening on your LAN address,
not (just) on 127.0.0.1.  Configure it to respond however you need.

> This seems to be one of those things that systemd has taken over ("named" is
> no longer available in the repository, for example, presumably because it's no
> longer needed),

The pacakge for ISC's BIND is called bind9.

This would certainly do the job, but it's massively overkill for a simple
home LAN DNS server.  Nevertheless, if it's what you already know, there
is benefit in using the known but overengineered tool rather than learning
a new tool.

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#191299 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

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Greg Wooledge wrote on 01/18/2018 02:43 PM:

> 
> The pacakge for ISC's BIND is called bind9.
> 
> This would certainly do the job, but it's massively overkill for a simple
> home LAN DNS server.  Nevertheless, if it's what you already know, there
> is benefit in using the known but overengineered tool rather than learning
> a new tool.

As noted elsewhere, I'd forgotten the name of the resolver -- and also hadn't
realised that everything needed for such resolution wasn't automatically
installed with the base system.

All installed and working now.

Thanks very much for the pointer.

  Doc

-- 
Web:  http://enginehousebooks.com/drevans

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#191311 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

Hi,

Apologies for the slight thread hijack.

In article <20180118214314.442arvnrw4xbxuhb@eeg.ccf.org>,
           Greg Wooledge<wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> The pacakge for ISC's BIND is called bind9.
>
> This would certainly do the job, but it's massively overkill for a simple
> home LAN DNS server.  Nevertheless, if it's what you already know, there
> is benefit in using the known but overengineered tool rather than learning
> a new tool.

What would people recommend for a home LAN DNS server that is authoritative
for a single domain, providing A, AAAA, PTR (both IPv4 and IPv6), NS and
CNAME records to that domain?

Thanks

Andy

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#191312 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

On 1/19/2018 12:45 PM, Andy Hawkins wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Apologies for the slight thread hijack.
> 
> In article <20180118214314.442arvnrw4xbxuhb@eeg.ccf.org>,
>             Greg Wooledge<wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
>> The pacakge for ISC's BIND is called bind9.
>>
>> This would certainly do the job, but it's massively overkill for a simple
>> home LAN DNS server.  Nevertheless, if it's what you already know, there
>> is benefit in using the known but overengineered tool rather than learning
>> a new tool.
> 
> What would people recommend for a home LAN DNS server that is authoritative
> for a single domain, providing A, AAAA, PTR (both IPv4 and IPv6), NS and
> CNAME records to that domain?
> 

Have a look at:

http://www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/doc.html

-- 
John Doe

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#191313 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

Hi,

In article <ebd7ecce-a194-921d-1f28-74469c78cf43@mail.com>,
           john doe<johndoe65534@mail.com> wrote:
>> What would people recommend for a home LAN DNS server that is authoritative
>> for a single domain, providing A, AAAA, PTR (both IPv4 and IPv6), NS and
>> CNAME records to that domain?
>> 
>
> Have a look at:
>
> http://www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/doc.html

I probably should have said that I'm currently using bind for DNS, and the
ISC DHCP server to issue IP addresses on the local network.

I have looked into dnsmasq in the past, as I quite like the idea of having
something lightweight do both jobs.

Are there any other options, or should I just dive in and try to convert to
dnsmasq?

Thanks

Andy

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#191322 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 12:27:57PM -0000, Andy Hawkins wrote:
>Hi,
>
>In article <ebd7ecce-a194-921d-1f28-74469c78cf43@mail.com>,
>           john doe<johndoe65534@mail.com> wrote:
>>> What would people recommend for a home LAN DNS server that is authoritative
>>> for a single domain, providing A, AAAA, PTR (both IPv4 and IPv6), NS and
>>> CNAME records to that domain?
>>>
>>
>> Have a look at:
>>
>> http://www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/doc.html
>
>I probably should have said that I'm currently using bind for DNS, and the
>ISC DHCP server to issue IP addresses on the local network.
>
>I have looked into dnsmasq in the past, as I quite like the idea of having
>something lightweight do both jobs.
>
>Are there any other options, or should I just dive in and try to convert to
>dnsmasq?

If you said why you were looking to abandon a (presumably working?) 
solution that might help explain your requirements. If your goal is 
simple integration between DNS and DHCP (which is not what you 
originally asked for) then dnsmasq is probably the easiest solution. 

Mike Stone

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#191327 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

Hi,

In article <102059aa-fd21-11e7-9b6a-00163eeb5320@msgid.mathom.us>,
           Michael Stone<mstone@debian.org> wrote:
> If you said why you were looking to abandon a (presumably working?) 
> solution that might help explain your requirements. If your goal is 
> simple integration between DNS and DHCP (which is not what you 
> originally asked for) then dnsmasq is probably the easiest solution. 

Part of it is simplicity. As Greg Wooledge said, bind and dhcpd just seem
like massive overkill for a small network such as mine.

Also, the integration of DNS and DHCP would be a useful one as well, as
currently the majority of my machines are assigned a fixed address by the
dhcp server, and this address has an appropriate 'A' record in bind.

That means whenever I want to add a machine that can be accessible by name,
I have to reconfigure both dhcpd *and* bind.

I realise that with a bit of effort I could probably configure bind and
dhcpd to talk to each other and update DNS records, but again that all just
seems overkill for my 'needs'.

That said, my setup at home is massive overkill anyway (a XCP based VM host,
running several VMs to isolate the various services provided to my network).
I'm an inveterate fiddler when it comes to computing, so am always on the look
out for the next 'best' thing to try!

Thanks again to all for the input.

Andy

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#191319 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 11:45:23AM -0000, Andy Hawkins wrote:
> Apologies for the slight thread hijack.
> 
> What would people recommend for a home LAN DNS server that is authoritative
> for a single domain, providing A, AAAA, PTR (both IPv4 and IPv6), NS and
> CNAME records to that domain?

My only experience is with bind8, bind9, and tinydns (from djbdns).
I've never used IPv6 for anything.  None of the networks that I deal
with use IPv6, period.  They don't even have the option.

I have to wonder what kind of home you live in, that requires local
IPv6.  Most homes are small enough that you can get by with the roughly
2^24 addresses available in the private IPv4 ranges (10/8, 192.168/16,
and 172.16/12).

So, my first pick would be tinydns, and forget about IPv6.  But I may
not be the best person to try to address whatever your needs are.

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#191323 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 08:47:25AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>I have to wonder what kind of home you live in, that requires local
>IPv6.  Most homes are small enough that you can get by with the roughly
>2^24 addresses available in the private IPv4 ranges (10/8, 192.168/16,
>and 172.16/12).
>
>So, my first pick would be tinydns, and forget about IPv6.  But I may
>not be the best person to try to address whatever your needs are.

Some people actually like having end to end addressibility, the way the 
internet was designed to work, and don't want to have NAT layers.

Mike Stone

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#191324 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

Hi,

In article <20180119134725.lk5gywprdit4s3da@eeg.ccf.org>,
           Greg Wooledge<wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> My only experience is with bind8, bind9, and tinydns (from djbdns).
> I've never used IPv6 for anything.  None of the networks that I deal
> with use IPv6, period.  They don't even have the option.
>
> I have to wonder what kind of home you live in, that requires local
> IPv6.  Most homes are small enough that you can get by with the roughly
> 2^24 addresses available in the private IPv4 ranges (10/8, 192.168/16,
> and 172.16/12).
>
> So, my first pick would be tinydns, and forget about IPv6.  But I may
> not be the best person to try to address whatever your needs are.

I guess I don't *need* IPv6, but as a technology geek it's just something I
wanted to play around with. I've set up a tunnel with Hurricane Electric
that gets me a fully routable IPv6 prefix that I can assign an address from
to each of the devices on my LAN.

I do use a 192.168/16 for my local IPv4 addressing, but given that moving
forward IPv6 is likely to become more and more available, I thought it worth
having a play with. I can now (if I want) allow IPv6 access to every device
on my internal network without having to worry about NAT and port forwarding
to get connections through my firewall.

Thanks for the pointer to tinydns, I'll take a look.

Andy

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#191335 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

Hi


On 19/01/18 15:08, Andy Hawkins wrote:

> I guess I don't *need* IPv6, but as a technology geek it's just something I
> wanted to play around with. I've set up a tunnel with Hurricane Electric
> that gets me a fully routable IPv6 prefix that I can assign an address from
> to each of the devices on my LAN.

If you have got your own IPv6 /48 combined with RFC1918 IPv4 then split 
horizon DNS is probably a good idea;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-horizon_DNS

> I do use a 192.168/16 for my local IPv4 addressing, but given that moving
> forward IPv6 is likely to become more and more available, I thought it worth
> having a play with. I can now (if I want) allow IPv6 access to every device
> on my internal network without having to worry about NAT and port forwarding
> to get connections through my firewall.
> 
> Thanks for the pointer to tinydns, I'll take a look.

AFAIK Bind is the only named with a good split horizon implementation.


Regards,
Rob

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#191337 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 04:14:38PM +0100, Rob van der Putten wrote:
>AFAIK Bind is the only named with a good split horizon implementation.

most implementations will let you bind to a particular IP so you can run 
different configurations on internal & external IPs. bind has a lot of 
configuration flexibility to run them in a single process, which is a 
double edged sword--it's also really easy to screw up if you make a typo.

Mike Stone

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#191347 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

Le 19/01/2018 à 16:14, Rob van der Putten a écrit :
> 
> If you have got your own IPv6 /48 combined with RFC1918 IPv4 then split 
> horizon DNS is probably a good idea;
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-horizon_DNS

Why ?

My home network also has private IPv4 + global IPv6 addresse and I use 
split DNS, but not for that reason. I set up split DNS on my DNS server 
in order to serve both internal (authoritative + recursive) and external 
(authoritative) queries.

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#191334 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

On Fri 19 Jan 2018 at 08:47:25 (-0500), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 11:45:23AM -0000, Andy Hawkins wrote:
> > Apologies for the slight thread hijack.
> > 
> > What would people recommend for a home LAN DNS server that is authoritative
> > for a single domain, providing A, AAAA, PTR (both IPv4 and IPv6), NS and
> > CNAME records to that domain?
> 
> My only experience is with bind8, bind9, and tinydns (from djbdns).

… and mine's less than that. I stick to /etc/hosts.

> I've never used IPv6 for anything.  None of the networks that I deal
> with use IPv6, period.  They don't even have the option.

I have one valuable use for IPv6 which is point-to-point connections.
I plug a CAT5 cable into the two ends and use predefined functions
to bulk-transfer files with scp. Why?
1) I don't have to touch the IPv4 configuration,
2) We can still watch TV; ie the router doesn't get swamped.

> I have to wonder what kind of home you live in, that requires local
> IPv6.  Most homes are small enough that you can get by with the roughly
> 2^24 addresses available in the private IPv4 ranges (10/8, 192.168/16,
> and 172.16/12).
> 
> So, my first pick would be tinydns, and forget about IPv6.  But I may
> not be the best person to try to address whatever your needs are.

Cheers,
David.

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#191412 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

Hi,

In article <20180119151835.GA8374@alum>,
           David Wright<deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> I have one valuable use for IPv6 which is point-to-point connections.
> I plug a CAT5 cable into the two ends and use predefined functions
> to bulk-transfer files with scp. Why?
> 1) I don't have to touch the IPv4 configuration,
> 2) We can still watch TV; ie the router doesn't get swamped.

You should be able to do that with IPv4 too. If DHCP address allocation
fails, then both devices should pick up a link-local IPv4 address (in the
169.254.x.x block). You can use this address to do whatever you need to do.

Andy

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#191416 — Re: stretch and DNS name resolution service for other devices on a LAN

On Mon 22 Jan 2018 at 17:21:23 (-0000), Andy Hawkins wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In article <20180119151835.GA8374@alum>,
>            David Wright<deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> > I have one valuable use for IPv6 which is point-to-point connections.
> > I plug a CAT5 cable into the two ends and use predefined functions
> > to bulk-transfer files with scp. Why?
> > 1) I don't have to touch the IPv4 configuration,
> > 2) We can still watch TV; ie the router doesn't get swamped.
> 
> You should be able to do that with IPv4 too. If DHCP address allocation
> fails,

Elaborate on this please. What do you mean by "fails".
What am I meant to want to fail?

> then both devices should pick up a link-local IPv4 address (in the
> 169.254.x.x block). You can use this address to do whatever you need to do.

Cheers,
David.

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