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Cannot delete files

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  Cannot delete files ben <bcp123@frontiernet.net> - 2018-05-26 20:20 +0200
    Re: Cannot delete files <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-05-26 20:30 +0200
    Re: Cannot delete files Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2018-05-26 20:30 +0200
      Re: Cannot delete files David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-05-26 20:50 +0200
        Re: Cannot delete files Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-05-26 21:00 +0200
          Re: Cannot delete files Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-05-26 22:30 +0200
          Re: Cannot delete files David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-05-26 23:00 +0200
            Re: Cannot delete files Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-05-26 23:20 +0200
        Re: Cannot delete files Abdullah Ramazanoğlu <ar018@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-26 21:00 +0200
        Re: Cannot delete files <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2018-05-26 22:00 +0200

#196098 — Cannot delete files

For some reason I cannot delete files all of a sudden.  I amusing the current debian version with KDE destop.  What can I try to fix this problem.  I have checked the permissions ant there should be no restriction.

Thanks


Sent from my android device.

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#196099

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On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 12:48:44PM -0500, ben wrote:
> For some reason I cannot delete files all of a sudden.  I amusing the current debian version with KDE destop.  What can I try to fix this problem.  I have checked the permissions ant there should be no restriction.

Perhaps your file system is mounted read-only? Perhaps because some
disk trouble?

What happens if you try to (say) create a file in your home directory
in a shell (e.g. "touch /my/home/directory/foo")?

The error message (or its absence) might tell us more...

Cheers
- -- tomás
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#196100

Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018, 19:48:44 CEST schrieb ben:
Hi Ben,

hard to say, maybe your partition is mounted read only?
This happened at me in the past for two times. One after a filesystem check, 
the other case was, when the partition was full.

Try to boot from a livefile system then mount the partition read write (as 
usual) and then try to delete the files. 

You can also do a filesystem chewck, of course then wit the unmounted 
partition.

Maybe it helps.

Good luck

Hans
> For some reason I cannot delete files all of a sudden.  I amusing the
> current debian version with KDE destop.  What can I try to fix this
> problem.  I have checked the permissions ant there should be no
> restriction.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Sent from my android device.

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#196102

On Sat 26 May 2018 at 20:21:13 (+0200), Hans wrote:
> Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018, 19:48:44 CEST schrieb ben:
> Hi Ben,
> 
> hard to say, maybe your partition is mounted read only?
> This happened at me in the past for two times. One after a filesystem check, 
> the other case was, when the partition was full.

That's a new one on me: is it meant to happen? It seems like a
Catch-22 if you can't delete files when a partition is full.
All I've observed is that various things get stuck, depending on
the filesystem involved (usually /home in my case).

> > For some reason I cannot delete files all of a sudden.  I amusing the
> > current debian version with KDE destop.  What can I try to fix this
> > problem.  I have checked the permissions ant there should be no
> > restriction.

Cheers,
David.

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#196103

On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 01:42:51PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Sat 26 May 2018 at 20:21:13 (+0200), Hans wrote:
> > Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018, 19:48:44 CEST schrieb ben:
> > Hi Ben,
> > 
> > hard to say, maybe your partition is mounted read only?
> > This happened at me in the past for two times. One after a filesystem check, 
> > the other case was, when the partition was full.
> 
> That's a new one on me: is it meant to happen? It seems like a
> Catch-22 if you can't delete files when a partition is full.
> All I've observed is that various things get stuck, depending on
> the filesystem involved (usually /home in my case).

What if 'delete' actually means 'we move files to some hidden trash
directory'?
To move a file you must change trash directory inode, possibly growing
it. You must change original directory inode as well, but ext3/4 does
not shrink directory size on deletion.
Thus 'lack of free space' equals 'unable to move files'. Or "delete"
them, in DE speak.

Reco

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#196109

On 5/26/18, Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 01:42:51PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
>> On Sat 26 May 2018 at 20:21:13 (+0200), Hans wrote:
>> > Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018, 19:48:44 CEST schrieb ben:
>> > Hi Ben,
>> >
>> > hard to say, maybe your partition is mounted read only?
>> > This happened at me in the past for two times. One after a filesystem
>> > check,
>> > the other case was, when the partition was full.
>>
>> That's a new one on me: is it meant to happen? It seems like a
>> Catch-22 if you can't delete files when a partition is full.
>> All I've observed is that various things get stuck, depending on
>> the filesystem involved (usually /home in my case).
>
> What if 'delete' actually means 'we move files to some hidden trash
> directory'?
> To move a file you must change trash directory inode, possibly growing
> it. You must change original directory inode as well, but ext3/4 does
> not shrink directory size on deletion.
> Thus 'lack of free space' equals 'unable to move files'. Or "delete"
> them, in DE speak.


Am *smacking my head* for not automatically thinking that. I started
to just respond to David's comment when his reminded me that I've been
there, done that, couldn't delete because SDHC disks were full (within
cameras).

With Reco's comment adding its reminder, I now see it as a mix between
trash needing room to grow with its necessary, ever increasing
[historical reference] data AND whatever system is involved possibly
needing some free "physical" space to manipulate those files from here
to wherever in their last few seconds of #Life.

I think I'm thinking some level of "memory" (or *something*, whatever
it is) with that second part such as it has been my understanding of
why we were always prodded to keep buying new hard drives LONG before
they ever filled up. Suggested rule of thumb used to sound ridiculous,
a super low percentage of disk usage with my memory yelling we were
told to start sweating it at maybe 1/3 full.

Was possibly a high percentage k/t on that suggested number going to
manufacturers who wanted to keep people buying their product. I've got
one 2TB right now with 66GB left. It's really not doing too badly
still.. although.. it's only asked to perform [storage tasks] once or
twice a day for a couple minutes instead of being asked to keep
processing things basically every second. :)

That permissions thing... that's... got my interest. I've got
something I've got to try again. It's not the kind of thing you can
ponder out loud.

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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#196111

On Sat 26 May 2018 at 21:54:57 (+0300), Reco wrote:
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 01:42:51PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Sat 26 May 2018 at 20:21:13 (+0200), Hans wrote:
> > > Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018, 19:48:44 CEST schrieb ben:
> > > Hi Ben,
> > > 
> > > hard to say, maybe your partition is mounted read only?
> > > This happened at me in the past for two times. One after a filesystem check, 
> > > the other case was, when the partition was full.
> > 
> > That's a new one on me: is it meant to happen? It seems like a
> > Catch-22 if you can't delete files when a partition is full.
> > All I've observed is that various things get stuck, depending on
> > the filesystem involved (usually /home in my case).
> 
> What if 'delete' actually means 'we move files to some hidden trash
> directory'?
> To move a file you must change trash directory inode, possibly growing
> it. You must change original directory inode as well, but ext3/4 does
> not shrink directory size on deletion.
> Thus 'lack of free space' equals 'unable to move files'. Or "delete"
> them, in DE speak.

I was under the impression that you just selected delete with the
shift key held, but that's memories of windows almost 2 decades ago.
I think nowadays windows warns you when you delete a file that's too
big for the trash; don't linux DEs do likewise?

Cheers,
David.

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#196112

	Hi.

On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 03:58:09PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Sat 26 May 2018 at 21:54:57 (+0300), Reco wrote:
> > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 01:42:51PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > On Sat 26 May 2018 at 20:21:13 (+0200), Hans wrote:
> > > > Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018, 19:48:44 CEST schrieb ben:
> > > > Hi Ben,
> > > > 
> > > > hard to say, maybe your partition is mounted read only?
> > > > This happened at me in the past for two times. One after a filesystem check, 
> > > > the other case was, when the partition was full.
> > > 
> > > That's a new one on me: is it meant to happen? It seems like a
> > > Catch-22 if you can't delete files when a partition is full.
> > > All I've observed is that various things get stuck, depending on
> > > the filesystem involved (usually /home in my case).
> > 
> > What if 'delete' actually means 'we move files to some hidden trash
> > directory'?
> > To move a file you must change trash directory inode, possibly growing
> > it. You must change original directory inode as well, but ext3/4 does
> > not shrink directory size on deletion.
> > Thus 'lack of free space' equals 'unable to move files'. Or "delete"
> > them, in DE speak.
> 
> I was under the impression that you just selected delete with the
> shift key held, but that's memories of windows almost 2 decades ago.

Same here. Been a long time, and I don't miss *that* experience at all.

> I think nowadays windows warns you when you delete a file that's too
> big for the trash; don't linux DEs do likewise?

OP's email said, to quote:

> I amusing the current debian version with KDE destop.

Funny things can happen if you use allegedly cross-platform set of
libraries (aka qt framework) to build a Modern Desktop Enviroment™,
using certain proprietary OS as an inspiration.

Back in the days of KDE3 I could answer 'yes' to your question.

But now? KDE sources could easily nominate for 'obfuscated C++
programming contents', and reading them aloud can summon dreaded
Spaghetti Monster :).

I could spend an evening with strace(1) and ltrace(1), and learn it, but
I'm too lazy to do it now.

Reco

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#196104

On Sat, 26 May 2018 13:42:51 -0500 David Wright said:

> That's a new one on me: is it meant to happen? It seems like a
> Catch-22 if you can't delete files when a partition is full.
> All I've observed is that various things get stuck, depending on
> the filesystem involved (usually /home in my case).

mke2fs or tune2fs "-m" (reserved blocks percentage) is for these situations.
When the partition is full (minus reserved blocks) regular users cannot write
anymore except root. It's default value while filesystem creation is 5%, which
is too much for a partition larger than several gigs. I drop it to 1% (tune2fs
-m 1) for all partitions after installation.

As for OP, if disk-full condition was the case, then he could switch to root on
terminal session and delete some files.

Regards
-- 
Abdullah Ramazanoğlu

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#196107

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On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 01:42:51PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Sat 26 May 2018 at 20:21:13 (+0200), Hans wrote:
> > Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018, 19:48:44 CEST schrieb ben:
> > Hi Ben,
> > 
> > hard to say, maybe your partition is mounted read only?

[...]

> That's a new one on me: is it meant to happen? It seems like a
> Catch-22 if you can't delete files when a partition is full.

[...]

I don't know currently whether a full partition would lead to
a read-only remount. I was rather thinking of I/O errors (possibly
signalling disk failure), and in that case you very much want
a read-only remount.

Cheers
- -- t
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