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Re: Laptop randomly reboots

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  Re: Laptop randomly reboots Sam Smith <debian@net153.net> - 2018-05-19 01:20 +0200
    Re: Laptop randomly reboots Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2018-05-19 09:30 +0200
      Re: Laptop randomly reboots Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-05-19 16:30 +0200
      Re: Laptop randomly reboots Sam Smith <debian@net153.net> - 2018-05-19 20:00 +0200
        Re: Laptop randomly reboots Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2018-05-19 20:10 +0200
        Re: Laptop randomly reboots David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-05-21 22:50 +0200

#195884 — Re: Laptop randomly reboots

On 09/04/2017 11:46 PM, Sam Smith wrote:
> On 08/28/2017 03:32 PM, Sam Smith wrote:
>> On 06/13/2017 02:27 PM, Sam Smith wrote:
>>> On 05/12/2017 03:38 PM, Sam Smith wrote:
>>>> On 01/20/2017 08:04 PM, Sam Smith wrote:
>>>>> I'll try to keep this short. I bought a used Lenovo T520 back in 
>>>>> May. It
>>>>> had the motherboard with nvidia GPU. Because it sucks power and 
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> really have good suspend/resume support, I bought a used mother board
>>>>> off of ebay that only had intel integrated graphics and I swapped it
>>>>> out. All was well and I had installed in it 8gb +4gb of ram.
>>>>>
>>>>> It ran like that for about 8 weeks before I bought an 8gb stick and
>>>>> stuck that in, so then I had 8gb + 8gb of ram. After about 6 weeks of
>>>>> running like, it randomly rebooted overnight. I shrugged it off and
>>>>> thought maybe the power went out or something (even though it had a
>>>>> battery in it). But then about 2 weeks later it did it again..and then
>>>>> two weeks after that. So I pulled out the new 8gb stick I had put 
>>>>> in and
>>>>> let it run with just one 8gb stick. It ran like that for about 10 
>>>>> weeks
>>>>> without a problem. I put the old 4gb stick in just for fun, 
>>>>> bringing it
>>>>> back to the original 8gb + 4gb configuration. But about 2 weeks 
>>>>> later it
>>>>> rebooted again. At that point I bought a matched 16gb kit (8gb + 8gb)
>>>>> from new egg that seemed to come recommended from google searching for
>>>>> compatible ram for this model. But just a couple of days ago (about 3
>>>>> weeks after installing it), it rebooted by itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am kind of at a loss here now. I can buy another motherboard and 
>>>>> swap
>>>>> it out again, but that takes a few hours and I don't feel like 
>>>>> doing it.
>>>>> The cooling and thermal stuff is all good on the laptop,I've ran 
>>>>> prime95
>>>>> and video encoding for hours and it is fine (temps stay below 80* at
>>>>> least, normal usage is 40-55*). I've also ran memtest for a few hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I find weird is that the machine suddenly reboots. At least a few
>>>>> years ago, ram issues would just lead to a kernel panic screen. But 
>>>>> with
>>>>> this, the machine is just like someone pulled the plug and rebooted 
>>>>> it.
>>>>> I started to wonder if there is some built in watchdog somewhere that
>>>>> will reboot the machine if it hangs, but I can't tell? Other than 
>>>>> that,
>>>>> if this is the kernel that is rebooting the machine, is there any 
>>>>> way I
>>>>> can get it to dump some info somewhere before it fully reboots? 
>>>>> Before I
>>>>> go through the pain of swapping the board again, I'd just like to 
>>>>> really
>>>>> know that this is a hardware issue and not the kernel detecting
>>>>> something and just choosing to reboot...
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any info,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just an update. My uptime is now 80 days and I haven't had any random
>>>> reboots. The only thing I did was pull in the latest apt-get updates
>>>> (which took me from Jessie 6.6 to 6.7 I think, but also installed a
>>>> newer xorg-intel driver from backports). I also read somewhere that
>>>> there were some "issues" with having the hardware virtualization
>>>> extensions enabled in BIOS (can't remember what the issues were) so I
>>>> disabled those after running the apt-get upgrade and rebooting.
>>>>
>>>> Never gone this long without a reboot so I guess perhaps I'm good. But
>>>> if this was indeed a software caused reboot, I'd like to know what
>>>> setting I need to change so that debian would just hang at a kernel
>>>> panic screen (or something similar) instead of just an instant dump and
>>>> reboot leaving me thinking that it is hardware issues (which it may
>>>> still be....)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Samuel Smith
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Guess I spoke too soon. About 10 days after I posted the above, the 
>>> laptop randomly rebooted. :sigh:
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> And for my hopefully final update..... I upgraded from jessie to 
>> stretch and about 2 weeks after that I got a random reboot. Figured 
>> that ruled out any software issue. Went ahead and bought a new board 
>> off of ebay and judging by the lack of a serial number in the bios 
>> screen, I'd say it was from an old stock pile destined for RMA 
>> warranty repairs. Nonetheless, after a month of swapping the board, 
>> I've not had any further problems.
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Well I guess I really spoke too soon.... Just got a random reboot a 
> minute ago... Pretty much at a loss now. The only thing that hasn't been 
> replaced now is the CPU, battery, and power adapter. I do have a spare 
> battery and power adapter. Guess I'll try running with those for a month 
> or so and see what happens. Though not really sure how either one of 
> those would make the computer reboot randomly once a month. Laptop is 
> mounted in a docking station. At least for the last 6 months, every 
> reboot was while it was docked. But I do remember times last year 
> sitting at the kitchen table undocked and getting a reboot so I don't 
> think the docking station is the issue.. But have no idea now :/
> 
> Regards,
> 


So for my usual 6 month update:

Still scratching my head on this one. So far, tried various different 
ram, replaced motherboard, same issues on two different OS's (jessie and 
stretch), a few months a ago replaced battery with a brand new official 
one, tried various different power adapters... and still get the same 
random reboot.

For the last couple of months,  I seem to get around the problem by 
rebooting the laptop once every two weeks, and right after reboot I 
suspend and then resume. Seems if I just reboot it and let it sit there, 
it will reboot on its own after a couple of days. Otherwise the random 
reboots seem to always happen after being on for more than a month or so.

The only thing left is the CPU. Not sure if I am going to mess with it 
anymore though. I did find some "unofficial" bios versions out there 
that people have modified and tweaked various things at that level. 
Sounds risky, but I do still have the old motherboard so if I totally 
trash it by flashing I could always put that one back in (which would be 
the 4th time I've had the motherboard out lol) I need to flash bios to 
get the new microcodes for the spectre cpu flaw stuff anyway...

--Sam

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#195893

Hi,

looks like the laptop is going too hot. This is a problem at many laptops. 
because of the cooler is set with dust.

Take a look at the cooling system, if there is any dust in the way. 
Especially, as you told, this is a used one, take care of good cooling.

Sadly you have to open the laptop and take a look. 

It might be, that the cooling is enough, when at normal load, but at high load 
at some point, the cooling is no more enough and the laptop reboots or is 
shutting down.

If this is the reason, there should be a log entry in syslog.

There is also some packages, from which can  the sensors can be watched.
Check lm-sensors or similar.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!

Hans

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#195903

On 5/19/18, Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> looks like the laptop is going too hot. This is a problem at many laptops.
> because of the cooler is set with dust.
>
> Take a look at the cooling system, if there is any dust in the way.
> Especially, as you told, this is a used one, take care of good cooling.
>
> Sadly you have to open the laptop and take a look.
>
> It might be, that the cooling is enough, when at normal load, but at high
> load
> at some point, the cooling is no more enough and the laptop reboots or is
> shutting down.
>
> If this is the reason, there should be a log entry in syslog.
>
> There is also some packages, from which can  the sensors can be watched.
> Check lm-sensors or similar.


There are various types of USB fans that *do* help and fairly
inexpensively. There are laptop cooling pads that sit under the
laptop. Others are personal fans that could be twisted so they hit the
laptop in addition to the Human.

Then there is always the fallback of regular personal office fans..

Additionally, I have an OLD HP that I have propped up at a sturdy
(solid, unwielding) point in the back. It's been like that for maybe
two years. So far, that seems to be all that one needs... in spite of
no air conditioning instead of a fan to help dissipate the heat, for
example. :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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#195907

On 05/19/2018 01:56 AM, Hans wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> looks like the laptop is going too hot. This is a problem at many laptops.
> because of the cooler is set with dust.
> 
> Take a look at the cooling system, if there is any dust in the way.
> Especially, as you told, this is a used one, take care of good cooling.
> 
> Sadly you have to open the laptop and take a look.
> 
> It might be, that the cooling is enough, when at normal load, but at high load
> at some point, the cooling is no more enough and the laptop reboots or is
> shutting down.
> 
> If this is the reason, there should be a log entry in syslog.
> 
> There is also some packages, from which can  the sensors can be watched.
> Check lm-sensors or similar.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Hans


I don't think that is the case. Perhaps, something, somewhere might 
think it is getting too hot (an in a software, firmware issue). But I've 
never had it reboot during any times of stressing. I used to use a 
program 'think-fan' to control the fans. With that, it never got above 
80*c. I removed the program (thinking that perhaps something external 
controlling the fans was causing some embedded controller to freak out 
and restart the machine or something). I've since uninstalled it, and 
with stock control, the temps get to 90*c, but as I've said, doing video 
encoding for hours or any other stress testing has never caused an 
issue. It seems to reboot at surreal times, like I'll be typing and stop 
to take a sip of coffee then boom, screen goes black and then I'm 
watching grub load up.

Thanks for the tips though.
--Sam

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#195908

Hmm, maybe in the past, the laptop was clean and now it is dusty.

However, you can try to force the cpu(s) running at low speed (for testing 
purposes). I am using this, when I do some task at night and my cooler shall 
not start (noisy!), for example when I build a new kali-version.

The application I am using for this, is "cpufreq-set" where I set all cpu(s) 
forcely to use lowest clock.

If you do so, and of course just for testing purposes, it should not reboot.

If it still does, check all the logs, maybe you find some hints in it or even 
the application, which causes the reboot.

Good luck!

Best

Hans 
> I don't think that is the case. Perhaps, something, somewhere might
> think it is getting too hot (an in a software, firmware issue). But I've
> never had it reboot during any times of stressing. I used to use a
> program 'think-fan' to control the fans. With that, it never got above
> 80*c. I removed the program (thinking that perhaps something external
> controlling the fans was causing some embedded controller to freak out
> and restart the machine or something). I've since uninstalled it, and
> with stock control, the temps get to 90*c, but as I've said, doing video
> encoding for hours or any other stress testing has never caused an
> issue. It seems to reboot at surreal times, like I'll be typing and stop
> to take a sip of coffee then boom, screen goes black and then I'm
> watching grub load up.
> 
> Thanks for the tips though.
> --Sam

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#195979

On Sat 19 May 2018 at 12:49:51 (-0500), Sam Smith wrote:
> On 05/19/2018 01:56 AM, Hans wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >looks like the laptop is going too hot. This is a problem at many laptops.
> >because of the cooler is set with dust.
> >
> >Take a look at the cooling system, if there is any dust in the way.
> >Especially, as you told, this is a used one, take care of good cooling.
> >
> >Sadly you have to open the laptop and take a look.
> >
> >It might be, that the cooling is enough, when at normal load, but at high load
> >at some point, the cooling is no more enough and the laptop reboots or is
> >shutting down.
> >
> >If this is the reason, there should be a log entry in syslog.
> >
> >There is also some packages, from which can  the sensors can be watched.
> >Check lm-sensors or similar.
> >
> >Hope this helps.
> >
> >Good luck!
> >
> >Hans
> 
> 
> I don't think that is the case. Perhaps, something, somewhere might
> think it is getting too hot (an in a software, firmware issue). But
> I've never had it reboot during any times of stressing. I used to
> use a program 'think-fan' to control the fans. With that, it never
> got above 80*c. I removed the program (thinking that perhaps
> something external controlling the fans was causing some embedded
> controller to freak out and restart the machine or something). I've
> since uninstalled it, and with stock control, the temps get to 90*c,
> but as I've said, doing video encoding for hours or any other stress
> testing has never caused an issue. It seems to reboot at surreal
> times, like I'll be typing and stop to take a sip of coffee then
> boom, screen goes black and then I'm watching grub load up.

You have my sympathy. This laptop that runs hot when busy (up to
98.5°C; I underreported the maximum a week ago) has never frozen or
rebooted when particularly stressed. However, during the time of
squeeze, it would turn itself off spontaneously (hard power-off
like holding the power button), usually when you disturbed the
angle of the screen (even slightly).

It never happened after installing wheezy, but since about a year
ago the screen goes very dark after a second or two. That happens
at boot up (before the POST is finished) and also when exiting X
to a VC (normal for a second, then dark again). These fleeting
glimpses are the reason I can't ever seriously upgrade it. I use
it with a monitor but that get a signal during the POST or CMOS.

So maybe you're lucky and it'll just go away, but it sounds as if
you have a reasonable workaround. (I've never run a laptop for as
long as those uptimes you're reporting.)

Cheers,
David.

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