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Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject]

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  Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-05-05 18:10 +0200
    Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2018-05-05 19:10 +0200
      Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 20:00 +0200
        Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2018-05-05 20:50 +0200
          Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 21:00 +0200
    Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2018-05-05 19:20 +0200
      Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 20:10 +0200
        Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Felix Dietrich <felix.dietrich@sperrhaken.name> - 2018-05-06 10:40 +0200
          Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2018-05-06 13:00 +0200
          Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 13:20 +0200
            Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-05-06 14:00 +0200
              Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 14:20 +0200
                Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Charlie S <taoquester@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 14:40 +0200
                  Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 15:10 +0200
                Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-05-06 15:10 +0200
                  Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 15:40 +0200
                    Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-05-06 16:10 +0200
                      Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 16:20 +0200
                        Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-05-06 16:40 +0200
              Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-05-06 15:00 +0200
    Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Abdullah Ramazanoğlu <ar018@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-05 21:00 +0200
    Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-05 21:40 +0200
      Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-05-06 06:00 +0200
        Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-06 16:30 +0200
          Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-05-06 16:50 +0200
            Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-05-09 20:00 +0200
              Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-09 20:40 +0200
                Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 00:00 +0200
    Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2018-05-06 13:30 +0200
      Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-05-06 14:30 +0200
        Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2018-05-06 23:00 +0200
        Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-08 21:10 +0200
          Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-05-09 20:10 +0200
            Re: Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-09 20:40 +0200

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#195299 — Distinguishing among [unmount, Safely Remove Drive, Eject]

What are the distinguishing features of unmount, Safely Remove Drive, 
and Eject?

The question is prompted by observing that for partitions on USB flash 
drives which have been auto-mounted, one or both of the last two are 
listed when clicking on the icon associated with a partition. For a hard 
disk partition, only the first is given.

Why?

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#195300

Hi,

Richard Owlett wrote:
> unmount, Safely Remove Drive, and Eject?
> [...] For a hard disk partition, only the first is given.

To eject a hard disk you need the undocumented privileges CAP_DESTROY_HARDWARE
and CAP_ENDANGER_BYSTANDERS.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#195302

	Hi.

On Sat, May 05, 2018 at 07:04:08PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Richard Owlett wrote:
> > unmount, Safely Remove Drive, and Eject?
> > [...] For a hard disk partition, only the first is given.
> 
> To eject a hard disk you need the undocumented privileges CAP_DESTROY_HARDWARE
> and CAP_ENDANGER_BYSTANDERS.

Please. Surely you heard of SATA/SAS hotplug? Or SATA rack?

It's true that it's usually impossible to *eject* the harddrive.
Does not mean that it's impossible to replace a harddrive without
powering down. 

Reco

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#195304

Hi,

i wrote:
> > CAP_DESTROY_HARDWARE and CAP_ENDANGER_BYSTANDERS.

Reco wrote:
> Please. Surely you heard of SATA/SAS hotplug? Or SATA rack?

Plus a robot arm which performs the mechanical part ?

But i rather thought of a 3.5 inch steel frisbee hopping out of its
casing at 7200 rpm. And even if it's a mechanically harmless SSD:
Who will sweep up all the popped-off memory chips ?


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#195307

	Hi.

On Sat, May 05, 2018 at 08:41:21PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> i wrote:
> > > CAP_DESTROY_HARDWARE and CAP_ENDANGER_BYSTANDERS.
> 
> Reco wrote:
> > Please. Surely you heard of SATA/SAS hotplug? Or SATA rack?
> 
> Plus a robot arm which performs the mechanical part ?

EMC does it. Price could be lower though, as AFAIK you have to buy
Symmetrix (sp?) for the feature.


> But i rather thought of a 3.5 inch steel frisbee hopping out of its
> casing at 7200 rpm.

It's either glass or aluminium these days. Could still cause some damage
if fractured before the ejection ☺.

Reco

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#195301

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, 5 May 2018 11:06:25 -0500
Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

Hello Richard,

>Why?

Probably not an exhaustive list....

Ever tried to eject an HD?  (Un)mount is the only thing that makes sense
here.

Safely Remove is to ensure writes to flash drives etc. are actually
completed as opposed to being in progress from buffers.  Only then is it
safe to remove the memory card.

Eject will open a CD/DVD/BluRay drive tray, or actually eject the disk
from a slot drive.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
What will you do when the gas taps turn?
The Gasman Cometh - Crass

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#195303

	Hi.

On Sat, May 05, 2018 at 05:59:15PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Sat, 5 May 2018 11:06:25 -0500
> Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello Richard,
> 
> >Why?
> 
> Probably not an exhaustive list....
> 
> Ever tried to eject an HD?

Yup. Did it a week ago last time, I was changing yet another NAS SATA
drive.

> (Un)mount is the only thing that makes sense here.

Actually, no. For instance, this particular PC says to me that it's
possible to remove two HDs from the running kernel (powering down it
effectively):

$ ls -al /sys/block/sd*/device/delete
--w------- 1 root root 4096 May  5 21:00 /sys/block/sda/device/delete
--w------- 1 root root 4096 May  5 21:00 /sys/block/sdb/device/delete

But, considering *who* designed DE in question, it may be for the best
that users are oblivious about this particular feature ;).


> Safely Remove is to ensure writes to flash drives etc. are actually
> completed as opposed to being in progress from buffers.  Only then is it
> safe to remove the memory card.

In other words, perform umount(2). How is it different from Unmount is
anyone's guess.

Reco

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#195320

Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> writes:

> But, considering *who* designed DE in question, it may be for the best
> that users are oblivious about this particular feature ;).

What is „DE” referring to?

--
Felix Dietrich

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#195324

Felix Dietrich wrote:
> Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> But, considering *who* designed DE in question, it may be for the best
>> that users are oblivious about this particular feature ;).
>
> What is „DE” referring to?

  i'm guessing Desktop Environment...


  songbird

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#195326

	Hi.

On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 10:15:11AM +0200, Felix Dietrich wrote:
> Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > But, considering *who* designed DE in question, it may be for the best
> > that users are oblivious about this particular feature ;).
> 
> What is „DE” referring to?

"Desktop Environment". Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even say that
it's "dumbing down things".

Reco

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#195328

On Sunday, May 06, 2018 07:10:53 AM Reco wrote:
> Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
> its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even say that
> it's "dumbing down things".

For the uninitiated (or old) among us, care to enlighten us?

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#195329

	Hi.

On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 07:51:24AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 06, 2018 07:10:53 AM Reco wrote:
> > Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
> > its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even say that
> > it's "dumbing down things".
> 
> For the uninitiated (or old) among us, care to enlighten us?

Easy. Does it look like it's designed for a tablet?
Does it look pretty yet likes to crash often?
Or maybe it has a rodent on a logo?

If any of those is true, you're using a Modern Desktop Environment™.

Reco

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#195331

On Sun, 6 May 2018 15:11:25 +0300 Reco sent:

> 	Hi.
> 
> On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 07:51:24AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 06, 2018 07:10:53 AM Reco wrote:  
> > > Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
> > > its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even
> > > say that it's "dumbing down things".  
> > 
> > For the uninitiated (or old) among us, care to enlighten us?  
> 
> Easy. Does it look like it's designed for a tablet?
> Does it look pretty yet likes to crash often?
> Or maybe it has a rodent on a logo?
> 
> If any of those is true, you're using a Modern Desktop Environment™.
> 
> Reco
> 
	After contemplation, my reply is:

	I have to admit to reading your post that, a "Desktop
	Environment" dumbs things down.

I also read the question, as referring to, why does a Desktop
Environment dumbs things down?

My error.

Charlie

-- 
	Registered Linux User:- 329524
	***********************************************

	A dream grants what one covets when awake. - German proverb

	***********************************************

	Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

	-----------------------------------------------------

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#195335

	Hi.

On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 10:29:41PM +1000, Charlie S wrote:
> On Sun, 6 May 2018 15:11:25 +0300 Reco sent:
> 
> > 	Hi.
> > 
> > On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 07:51:24AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 06, 2018 07:10:53 AM Reco wrote:  
> > > > Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
> > > > its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even
> > > > say that it's "dumbing down things".  
> > > 
> > > For the uninitiated (or old) among us, care to enlighten us?  
> > 
> > Easy. Does it look like it's designed for a tablet?
> > Does it look pretty yet likes to crash often?
> > Or maybe it has a rodent on a logo?
> > 
> > If any of those is true, you're using a Modern Desktop Environment™.
> > 
> > Reco
> > 
> 	After contemplation, my reply is:
> 
> 	I have to admit to reading your post that, a "Desktop
> 	Environment" dumbs things down.

Was not my intention, just in case. Back in the day they designed
Desktop Environments to enhance users' productivity (GNOME1 comes to
mind), now all they seem to care about are the needs of a mythical
"clueless user".

So let's keep it PG-13 clean, and call it "simplifying".


> I also read the question, as referring to, why does a Desktop
> Environment dumbs things down?

Who knows? Martians send their mind-controlling rays, certain corporate
entities are plotting to take the world - the possibilities are endless.
And of course there are They.

Reco

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#195334

On Sunday, May 06, 2018 08:11:25 AM Reco wrote:
> 	Hi.
> 
> On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 07:51:24AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 06, 2018 07:10:53 AM Reco wrote:
> > > Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
> > > its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even say
> > > that it's "dumbing down things".
> > 
> > For the *uninitiated (or old)* among us, care to enlighten us?
> 
> Easy. Does it look like it's designed for a tablet?
> Does it look pretty yet likes to crash often?
> Or maybe it has a rodent on a logo?

Doesn't help me--see *emphasized" part in my first response.

I guess I'm not using one, but I'd like to know what to avoid in the future.

For the record, I don't enjoy guessing games, or whatever we're playing here.

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#195336

	Hi.

On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 09:05:19AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 06, 2018 08:11:25 AM Reco wrote:
> > 	Hi.
> > 
> > On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 07:51:24AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 06, 2018 07:10:53 AM Reco wrote:
> > > > Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
> > > > its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even say
> > > > that it's "dumbing down things".
> > > 
> > > For the *uninitiated (or old)* among us, care to enlighten us?
> > 
> > Easy. Does it look like it's designed for a tablet?
> > Does it look pretty yet likes to crash often?
> > Or maybe it has a rodent on a logo?
> 
> Doesn't help me--see *emphasized" part in my first response.
> 
> I guess I'm not using one, but I'd like to know what to avoid in the future.

This list is known for shadowbanning its users if certain words are
mentioned. I'd like to avoid it.

I propose a techincal criteria then. 
If it can be run via Wayland - it's Modern.
If still it requires X to run - it's not.

Reco

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#195337

On 05/06/2018 08:30 AM, Reco wrote:
> 	Hi.
> 
> On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 09:05:19AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, May 06, 2018 08:11:25 AM Reco wrote:
>>> 	Hi.
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 07:51:24AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, May 06, 2018 07:10:53 AM Reco wrote:
>>>>> Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
>>>>> its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even say
>>>>> that it's "dumbing down things".
>>>>
>>>> For the *uninitiated (or old)* among us, care to enlighten us?
>>>
>>> Easy. Does it look like it's designed for a tablet?
>>> Does it look pretty yet likes to crash often?
>>> Or maybe it has a rodent on a logo?
>>
>> Doesn't help me--see *emphasized" part in my first response.
>>
>> I guess I'm not using one, but I'd like to know what to avoid in the future.
> 
> This list is known for shadowbanning its users if certain words are
> mentioned. I'd like to avoid it.
> 
> I propose a techincal criteria then.
> If it can be run via Wayland - it's Modern.
> If still it requires X to run - it's not.
> 

Does that gibberish have any thing to do with Debian 9 installed from 
then current repository via netinst?

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#195338

	Hi.

On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 09:07:50AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/06/2018 08:30 AM, Reco wrote:
> > 	Hi.
> > 
> > On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 09:05:19AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 06, 2018 08:11:25 AM Reco wrote:
> > > > 	Hi.
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 07:51:24AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, May 06, 2018 07:10:53 AM Reco wrote:
> > > > > > Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
> > > > > > its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even say
> > > > > > that it's "dumbing down things".
> > > > > 
> > > > > For the *uninitiated (or old)* among us, care to enlighten us?
> > > > 
> > > > Easy. Does it look like it's designed for a tablet?
> > > > Does it look pretty yet likes to crash often?
> > > > Or maybe it has a rodent on a logo?
> > > 
> > > Doesn't help me--see *emphasized" part in my first response.
> > > 
> > > I guess I'm not using one, but I'd like to know what to avoid in the future.
> > 
> > This list is known for shadowbanning its users if certain words are
> > mentioned. I'd like to avoid it.
> > 
> > I propose a techincal criteria then.
> > If it can be run via Wayland - it's Modern.
> > If still it requires X to run - it's not.
> > 
> 
> Does that gibberish have any thing to do with Debian 9 installed from then
> current repository via netinst?

No. Should it? Hint - please read the e-mail topic.

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#195341

On 05/06/2018 09:19 AM, Reco wrote:
> 	Hi.
> 
> On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 09:07:50AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 05/06/2018 08:30 AM, Reco wrote:
>>> 	Hi.
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 09:05:19AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, May 06, 2018 08:11:25 AM Reco wrote:
>>>>> 	Hi.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 07:51:24AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, May 06, 2018 07:10:53 AM Reco wrote:
>>>>>>> Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
>>>>>>> its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even say
>>>>>>> that it's "dumbing down things".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the *uninitiated (or old)* among us, care to enlighten us?
>>>>>
>>>>> Easy. Does it look like it's designed for a tablet?
>>>>> Does it look pretty yet likes to crash often?
>>>>> Or maybe it has a rodent on a logo?
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't help me--see *emphasized" part in my first response.
>>>>
>>>> I guess I'm not using one, but I'd like to know what to avoid in the future.
>>>
>>> This list is known for shadowbanning its users if certain words are
>>> mentioned. I'd like to avoid it.
>>>
>>> I propose a techincal criteria then.
>>> If it can be run via Wayland - it's Modern.
>>> If still it requires X to run - it's not.
>>>
>>
>> Does that gibberish have any thing to do with Debian 9 installed from then
>> current repository via netinst?
> 
> No. Should it? Hint - please read the e-mail topic.
> 

<chuckle and/or groan> I be OP and never requested Wayland, but just 
discovered that Synaptic reports I have *FOUR* of its modules installed.

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#195332

On 05/06/2018 06:51 AM, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 06, 2018 07:10:53 AM Reco wrote:
>> Certain Modern Desktop Environment™ is known for
>> its effort to "simplify the things for the user". Some may even say that
>> it's "dumbing down things".
> 
> For the uninitiated (or old) among us, care to enlighten us?
> 
As one for whom three-score-and-ten is past:

Various Linux distros appear to compete for the worst combination of 
"mother hen" and "papa knows best" of Unix and Windows. Debian offends 
least.

A less opinionated description should be appear in my reply later today 
to Henrique's post.

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