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Groups > linux.debian.user > #194272 > unrolled thread
| Started by | mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-03-29 19:10 +0200 |
| Last post | 2018-04-03 13:30 +0200 |
| Articles | 4 on this page of 24 — 9 participants |
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changing local domain name mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-03-29 19:10 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-03-29 20:40 +0200
Re: changing local domain name mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-03-29 22:00 +0200
Re: changing local domain name john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-03-30 08:10 +0200
Re: changing local domain name David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-30 18:20 +0200
Re: changing local domain name john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-04-03 08:40 +0200
Re: changing local domain name David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-04-12 22:30 +0200
Re: changing local domain name john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-04-13 13:30 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-13 14:30 +0200
Re: changing local domain name rhkramer@gmail.com - 2018-04-13 14:50 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-13 15:10 +0200
Re: changing local domain name David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-04-13 16:10 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-30 00:10 +0200
Re: changing local domain name David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-30 04:10 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-03-30 10:40 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-30 15:10 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-03-30 20:30 +0200
Re: changing local domain name David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-31 04:20 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-03-31 13:40 +0200
Re: changing local domain name David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-03-31 17:20 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2018-03-31 17:30 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-03-31 20:50 +0200
Re: changing local domain name David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-04-03 00:10 +0200
Re: changing local domain name Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-03 13:30 +0200
Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]
| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-31 17:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <vzqC5-6VA-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #194364 |
On Saturday 31 March 2018 11:15:48 David Wright wrote: > On Sat 31 Mar 2018 at 12:35:08 (+0100), Joe wrote: > > On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 21:17:26 -0500 > > > > David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > > > On Fri 30 Mar 2018 at 19:24:21 (+0100), Brian wrote: > > > > I do not know where the OP is coming from or, without further > > > > detail, where he wants to go. > > > > > > AIUI or thought I did, the OP wants to change their host foo's > > > domainname from foo.local to foo.home. > > > > > > > > > > On 2018-03-29, mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > It's not just domainname and /etc/hosts. > > > > > > ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ > > > I'm not sure what is meant here. > > > > > > > > > > > It's every frigging where. > > > > > > This surprises me. > > > > > > > > > > > apache > > > > > > Can't help with this. > > > > > > > > > > > roundcube > > > > > > > > postfix > > > > > > > > now my ISP SMTP server is moaning. > > > > > > It can't come as a surprise that one should reconfigure the email > > > system (and network connection) after changing the name of the > > > domain, and it shouldn't be that difficult. > > > > There is a deep well of ambiguity here, and inevitably it was dug by > > Microsoft. From the beginning of networking in DOS, an MS computer > > had an individual name and a group name. Initially the group was a > > 'workgroup', then along came NT with its security/vendor-lock-in > > feature of 'domains'. MS domains are basically Kerberos realms > > underpinned by LDAP, and in their beginning, had no connection with > > Internet domains. For the last decade or so, MS domains have been > > somewhat aligned with Internet domains, and the Windows DNS server > > is closely tied to the LDAP Active Directory. > > > > Over on this Path, domains have always been an Internet issue, for > > finding servers and sending email. They do not have any real meaning > > for Linux workstations. However, if CIFS is in use in a network, > > most of its tools will want the name of a workgroup or domain, for > > interoperation with Windows machines, of which Samba is a > > simulation. > > I hadn't given that any consideration. Somehow I thought anyone in the > OP's situation would probably have any MS "domain" set to WORKGROUP. > > > A > > working Internet mail server will also need to know its domain > > name(s) and will itself have at least one public FQDN, but there's > > no reason why any of the domain names it serves need to have any > > CIFS awareness or connection with a Windows or other local domain > > name. My mail server at present handles three public domains, only > > one of which I use locally. If a DNS server is in use in even a > > small network, again this will need a domain name. > > I think we can discount that if the user's FQDN was foo.local. > > I think both you and I may be overthinking the OP's comment above, > which reads like a tautology: to change the domainname, you need to > change the domainname. > > > It is a matter of practicality, therefore, to give a private network > > a domain name. > > So it's said, but the nature of these practicalities hasn't exactly > been forthcoming in the long thread that's been running two months > (apart from getting a dot in the FQDN). > > > If you lease a public domain name, there is no real > > difficulty about using it also in a private network, just a matter > > of making sure that external resources using the name can also be > > found in local DNS or hosts files. > > If you could elaborate. Say I have leased example.org, currently at > 93.184.216.34, and apart from what's out there on the Internet I have > hosts foo.example.org at 192.168.1.2 and bar.example.org at > 192.168.1.3 with a router at 192.168.1.1. What do I need to do? For > simplicity, I use dhcp from the router which also has no DNS server. > So /etc/hosts. > > Cheers, > David. Some of the above just added scenarios will require NATing in the router in order for external access to work. -- Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-31 20:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <vztJE-mH-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #194364 |
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:15:48 -0500 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > On Sat 31 Mar 2018 at 12:35:08 (+0100), Joe wrote: > > > If you lease a public domain name, there is no real > > difficulty about using it also in a private network, just a matter > > of making sure that external resources using the name can also be > > found in local DNS or hosts files. > > If you could elaborate. Say I have leased example.org, currently at > 93.184.216.34, and apart from what's out there on the Internet I have > hosts foo.example.org at 192.168.1.2 and bar.example.org at > 192.168.1.3 with a router at 192.168.1.1. What do I need to do? For > simplicity, I use dhcp from the router which also has no DNS server. > So /etc/hosts. Practically nothing, I'd have thought. *If* you run a local DNS server based on example.org, then you need to make the local machines aware that Internet resources are not going to be found in the local network. In this case, either that the DNS server has a manual entry or that all your machines have entries in their /etc/hosts files for www.example.org, on the sensible assumption that your web server is externally hosted. If you don't have a DNS server keeping track of your local machines, and in general, your workstations don't need to know where each other are, then a few /etc/hosts entries should be all you ever need. You only need the workstations to know where your servers are, and you may not have any servers other than your router. Nothing should need to know your public IP address: if you're hosting any Internet-facing servers, the hosting company you're leasing example.org from will deal with the public DNS. You will get a local DNS server when you acquire so many machines that keeping all the hosts files in sync becomes a pain. I run BIND and ISC-DHCP servers for the exercise, there are simpler DNS-DHCP systems. I do need DNS, as I run a mail server, and I've found out the hard way that the DNS forwarders in domestic routers aren't always up to the job. But in the early days of doing that, the mail server looked after its domains, I had only a caching nameserver in my router and the name of the server computer, and its 'domain' were irrelevant. My Windows workstations had a workgroup name, which Samba inherited when I began using it, but it has no connection with any of my Internet domain names. Again, a Linux workstation has no real use for a 'domain' name, but if you make even trivial use of some application which is involved with Internet domains, such as SMTP or DNS servers, then they may need to be given a domain name. The Debian installer simply assumes that no harm will come from the existence of a domain name if it's not needed, but that many Debian installations do need it. And no, I've never tried changing one, as I've always used one of my email domains, which has not changed in twenty years. As a comparison, if you need to change the domain name of a Windows server, you literally need to reinstall it, as the name is used so widely in its registry and its Active Directory. There is no method of changing it which is supported by Microsoft. -- Joe
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-03 00:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <vAfOi-7on-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #194366 |
On Sat 31 Mar 2018 at 19:40:02 (+0100), Joe wrote: > On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:15:48 -0500 > David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > > > On Sat 31 Mar 2018 at 12:35:08 (+0100), Joe wrote: > > > > > > If you lease a public domain name, there is no real > > > difficulty about using it also in a private network, just a matter > > > of making sure that external resources using the name can also be > > > found in local DNS or hosts files. > > > > If you could elaborate. Say I have leased example.org, currently at > > 93.184.216.34, and apart from what's out there on the Internet I have > > hosts foo.example.org at 192.168.1.2 and bar.example.org at > > 192.168.1.3 with a router at 192.168.1.1. What do I need to do? For > > simplicity, I use dhcp from the router which also has no DNS server. > > So /etc/hosts. > > Practically nothing, I'd have thought. *If* you run a local DNS server > based on example.org, then you need to make the local machines aware > that Internet resources are not going to be found in the local network. > In this case, either that the DNS server has a manual entry or that all > your machines have entries in their /etc/hosts files for > www.example.org, on the sensible assumption that your web server is > externally hosted. I would have thought that it's best to avoid having any local DNS resolving IP addresses for the external hosts because they're all under the control of the hosting company who might change them at any time. OTOH the local machines can be given their private addresses by the local dhcp server which is likely to be doubling as the local DNS server anyway. I haven't tried it as I don't have one (DNS). If I did, my worry would be having machines like foo.example.org with private addresses, and www.example.org on public ones. I'd want to take a closer look at exim's documentation for example. And would it help with overzealous smarthosts checking HELO? > If you don't have a DNS server keeping track of your > local machines, and in general, your workstations don't need to know > where each other are, then a few /etc/hosts entries should be all you > ever need. You only need the workstations to know where your servers > are, and you may not have any servers other than your router. I don't see how I'd do anything if I didn't know where the other workstations are. In that sense, they're all servers. I use /etc/hosts but I generate it from a masterfile /root/hosts-1-local-template, with sed taking care of the two edits required (127.0.1.1 and self). > Nothing should need to know your public IP address: if you're hosting > any Internet-facing servers, the hosting company you're leasing > example.org from will deal with the public DNS. Agreed. > You will get a local DNS server when you acquire so many machines that > keeping all the hosts files in sync becomes a pain. I run BIND and > ISC-DHCP servers for the exercise, there are simpler DNS-DHCP systems. > I do need DNS, as I run a mail server, and I've found out the hard way > that the DNS forwarders in domestic routers aren't always up to the job. > But in the early days of doing that, the mail server looked after its > domains, I had only a caching nameserver in my router and the name of > the server computer, and its 'domain' were irrelevant. My Windows > workstations had a workgroup name, which Samba inherited when I began > using it, but it has no connection with any of my Internet domain names. > > Again, a Linux workstation has no real use for a 'domain' name, Agreed. > but if > you make even trivial use of some application which is involved with > Internet domains, such as SMTP or DNS servers, then they may need to be > given a domain name. The Debian installer simply assumes that no harm > will come from the existence of a domain name if it's not needed, but > that many Debian installations do need it. Since February, it would seem sensible for the d-i to give some advice, now that there are recommended choices, .home/.corp/.mail. > And no, I've never tried changing one, as I've always used one of my > email domains, which has not changed in twenty years. As a comparison, > if you need to change the domain name of a Windows server, you literally > need to reinstall it, as the name is used so widely in its registry and > its Active Directory. There is no method of changing it which is > supported by Microsoft. Is there anything in Windows that's orthogonal. I've had no difficulty changing domain names in the past (in linux). The only difficulty with having an empty name for the domain is that there's nothing to grep. Mind you, grepping home anywhere in linux can be painful. Perhaps .corp is the best choice: I get very few hits from grep -r corp /etc and most of them are from my /etc/hosts, in the ad-exterminating part. Cheers, David.
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| From | Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-03 13:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <vAsiu-7cm-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #194364 |
David Wright wrote: >> If you lease a public domain name, there is no real >> difficulty about using it also in a private network, just a matter of >> making sure that external resources using the name can also be found in >> local DNS or hosts files. > > If you could elaborate. Say I have leased example.org, currently at > 93.184.216.34, and apart from what's out there on the Internet I have > hosts foo.example.org at 192.168.1.2 and bar.example.org at 192.168.1.3 > with a router at 192.168.1.1. What do I need to do? For simplicity, I > use dhcp from the router which also has no DNS server. So /etc/hosts. Assuming that you want to connect to "foo.example.org" from somewhere else on the internet, you use DNS to do the "foo.example.org = 93.184.216.34" translation (if 93.x is static, your registrar's DNS servers are fine. If it's not, a dynamic service like no-ip.com, afraid.org, or similar). Then you use DNAT on your router to do the translation for "93.184.216.34, port 80 => 192.168.1.2, port 80" Now, you'll run into problems since DNAT can only use one target IP address / port combination to forward (so, hosts foo and bar CANNOT both be forwarded to by triggering the router on destination port 80). On the other hand, if you're only concerned about hosts INSIDE your network (and don't necessarily need them accessible from the public internet), you have two options: 1. Manually set /etc/hosts entries on your devices. OR 2. Run your own DNS server (bind, unbound, others). The first option is simpler, but a real pain in the neck after a dozen hosts or so. It also will likely fall over if some of your hosts are phones / tablets (although, I've never really bothered looking into the tools for them). The second option is more involved, but it's also not terribly hard (I mean, I set it up in a weekend between reading the manpages, and some tutorials). However, spending a weekend or three setting it up means you never have to go through *that* particular headache again -- you just point all your hosts at it (of course, don't forget to make your backups!). -- |_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947 |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
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