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Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird

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  Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2017-12-22 03:40 +0100
    Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-12-22 12:40 +0100
      Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2017-12-22 19:10 +0100
        Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-12-22 20:00 +0100
          Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-12-22 20:40 +0100
            Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2017-12-28 15:40 +0100
              Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-12-28 15:50 +0100
                Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2017-12-28 16:20 +0100
                Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2017-12-28 16:20 +0100
                Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2017-12-28 17:20 +0100
                  Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2017-12-28 17:50 +0100
                    Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2017-12-28 18:30 +0100
                    Re: Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2017-12-30 05:30 +0100

#190130 — Saving Sent Messages with Thunderbird

By default, Thunderbird saves copies of sent emails in your email 
account with the ISP. You can to save them instead to a local folder by 
right-clicking on Local Folders and selecting "settings -> Copies and 
Folders -> When sending messages, automatically:". You can also make the 
reverse choice in this dialog.

Currently, web searches seem to turn up some out-dated info on how to do 
this.

  - Dan

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#190145

On 12/21/2017 08:31 PM, Dan Norton wrote:
> By default, Thunderbird saves copies of sent emails in your email
> account with the ISP. You can to save them instead to a local folder by
> right-clicking on Local Folders and selecting "settings -> Copies and
> Folders -> When sending messages, automatically:". You can also make the
> reverse choice in this dialog.
>
> Currently, web searches seem to turn up some out-dated info on how to do
> this.
>
>  - Dan
>
>

mozilla.support.thunderbird is an active support list

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#190154

On 12/22/2017 06:34 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 12/21/2017 08:31 PM, Dan Norton wrote:
>> By default, Thunderbird saves copies of sent emails in your email
>> account with the ISP. You can to save them instead to a local folder by
>> right-clicking on Local Folders and selecting "settings -> Copies and
>> Folders -> When sending messages, automatically:". You can also make the
>> reverse choice in this dialog.
>>
>> Currently, web searches seem to turn up some out-dated info on how to do
>> this.
>>
>>  - Dan
>>
>>
>
> mozilla.support.thunderbird is an active support list
>
That list refers to a different version of Thunderbird - one that has a 
"Tools > Account Settings" menu. Debian 8 has access to Thunderbird 
52.5.0 (64-bit) which has no such menu.

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#190156

On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 13:02:48 -0500
Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> wrote:

> On 12/22/2017 06:34 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> > On 12/21/2017 08:31 PM, Dan Norton wrote:  
> >> By default, Thunderbird saves copies of sent emails in your email
> >> account with the ISP. You can to save them instead to a local
> >> folder by right-clicking on Local Folders and selecting "settings
> >> -> Copies and Folders -> When sending messages, automatically:".
> >> You can also make the reverse choice in this dialog.
> >>
> >> Currently, web searches seem to turn up some out-dated info on how
> >> to do this.
> >>
> >>  - Dan
> >>
> >>  
> >
> > mozilla.support.thunderbird is an active support list
> >  
> That list refers to a different version of Thunderbird - one that has
> a "Tools > Account Settings" menu. Debian 8 has access to Thunderbird 
> 52.5.0 (64-bit) which has no such menu.
> 

You should have said that was the problem: it's under Edit, not Tools,
and so is Preferences, which replaces Tools, Options. 

I don't go back far enough with either Debian or Thunderbird to know
why...

-- 
Joe

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#190157

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2017-12-22 at 13:59, Joe wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 13:02:48 -0500 Dan Norton
> <dnorton@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 12/22/2017 06:34 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

>>> mozilla.support.thunderbird is an active support list
>>> 
>> That list refers to a different version of Thunderbird - one that
>> has a "Tools > Account Settings" menu. Debian 8 has access to
>> Thunderbird 52.5.0 (64-bit) which has no such menu.
> 
> You should have said that was the problem: it's under Edit, not
> Tools, and so is Preferences, which replaces Tools, Options.
> 
> I don't go back far enough with either Debian or Thunderbird to know
> why...

Unless I'm much mistaken, it's a Windows/Linux difference.

For obscure and probably-mostly-historical reasons, Linux versions of
Thunderbird and Firefox use "Preferences" under "Edit" as the way to
open the program's main configuration window, and Windows ones use
"Options" under "Tools".

"Account Settings" apparently follows the other menu option.

I vaguely seem to recall that once upon a time the Windows version of
the program(s) - possibly back in the days before Firefox, when the
unified suite was all there was - used "Preferences" under "Edit" as
well, and that they changed at some point for some reason.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#190390

On 12/22/2017 08:46 PM, The Wanderer wrote:

> Is there a reason why you replied off-list?

Unintentional.

>
> On 2017-12-22 at 20:25, Dan Norton wrote:
>
>> On 12/22/2017 02:23 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-12-22 at 13:59, Joe wrote:
>>>> I don't go back far enough with either Debian or Thunderbird to
>>>> know why...
>>> Unless I'm much mistaken, it's a Windows/Linux difference.
>>>
>>> For obscure and probably-mostly-historical reasons, Linux versions
>>> of Thunderbird and Firefox use "Preferences" under "Edit" as the
>>> way to open the program's main configuration window, and Windows
>>> ones use "Options" under "Tools".
>>>
>>> "Account Settings" apparently follows the other menu option.
>>>
>>> I vaguely seem to recall that once upon a time the Windows version
>>> of the program(s) - possibly back in the days before Firefox, when
>>> the unified suite was all there was - used "Preferences" under
>>> "Edit" as well, and that they changed at some point for some
>>> reason.
>>>
>> Interesting. You're not going to see Edit however unless you have a
>> Write in progress.
> Eh? In the main Thunderbird or Firefox window - with the folder list,
> message list, and (in my preferred layout) selected message - I most
> certainly do see an Edit menu; it's right next to the File menu.

No File or Edit menu in the main window here.

>
>>  From the window where you read email, you can get to Preferences via
>> some mouse gymnastics and then to Account settings. This window
>> could use a tool bar.
> No complicated gymnastics are required; it's simply Edit -> Preferences.
> (I don't even know what gymnastics you're proposing.)
>

I installed Thunderbird on a netinst of Debian 8 and 9 using synaptic. 
Same result for both: no File or Edit menu.

What version of Thunderbird are you using? How did you install it?

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#190393

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2017-12-28 at 09:37, Dan Norton wrote:

> On 12/22/2017 08:46 PM, The Wanderer wrote:

>> On 2017-12-22 at 20:25, Dan Norton wrote:

>>> Interesting. You're not going to see Edit however unless you have
>>> a Write in progress.
>> 
>> Eh? In the main Thunderbird or Firefox window - with the folder
>> list, message list, and (in my preferred layout) selected message -
>> I most certainly do see an Edit menu; it's right next to the File
>> menu.
> 
> No File or Edit menu in the main window here.
> 
>>> From the window where you read email, you can get to Preferences
>>> via some mouse gymnastics and then to Account settings. This
>>> window could use a tool bar.
>> No complicated gymnastics are required; it's simply Edit ->
>> Preferences. (I don't even know what gymnastics you're proposing.)
> 
> I installed Thunderbird on a netinst of Debian 8 and 9 using
> synaptic. Same result for both: no File or Edit menu.
> 
> What version of Thunderbird are you using? How did you install it?

(I replied to your off-list response before seeing this one. Sorry.)

I'd forgotten that apparently Thunderbird now ships with the menu bar
disabled by default, for the same (IMO wrongheaded) reasons as Firefox
does.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/display-thunderbird-menus-and-toolbar
explains how to turn it back on; it's been so long since I did so that
I'd forgotten that having it off was even an option, especially since I
don't understand (on any but an intellectual level) why anyone would
want to have it off.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#190399

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The Wanderer wrote:
> [...]
> I'd forgotten that having it off was even an option, especially since I
> don't understand (on any but an intellectual level) why anyone would
> want to have it off.

Probably pressure from Microsoft-land, where "the ribbon(tm)" is the One
True Way to do things.

Worst UX decision ever... 

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-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#190400

On 12/28/2017 09:45 AM, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2017-12-28 at 09:37, Dan Norton wrote:
>
>> On 12/22/2017 08:46 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
>>> On 2017-12-22 at 20:25, Dan Norton wrote:
>>>> Interesting. You're not going to see Edit however unless you have
>>>> a Write in progress.
>>> Eh? In the main Thunderbird or Firefox window - with the folder
>>> list, message list, and (in my preferred layout) selected message -
>>> I most certainly do see an Edit menu; it's right next to the File
>>> menu.
>> No File or Edit menu in the main window here.
>>
>>>>  From the window where you read email, you can get to Preferences
>>>> via some mouse gymnastics and then to Account settings. This
>>>> window could use a tool bar.
>>> No complicated gymnastics are required; it's simply Edit ->
>>> Preferences. (I don't even know what gymnastics you're proposing.)
>> I installed Thunderbird on a netinst of Debian 8 and 9 using
>> synaptic. Same result for both: no File or Edit menu.
>>
>> What version of Thunderbird are you using? How did you install it?
> (I replied to your off-list response before seeing this one. Sorry.)
>
> I'd forgotten that apparently Thunderbird now ships with the menu bar
> disabled by default, for the same (IMO wrongheaded) reasons as Firefox
> does.
>
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/display-thunderbird-menus-and-toolbar
> explains how to turn it back on; it's been so long since I did so that
> I'd forgotten that having it off was even an option, especially since I
> don't understand (on any but an intellectual level) why anyone would
> want to have it off.
>

Thank you! The default is wrongheaded for sure. I started using Palemoon 
because of that. Even the way to get the toolbar back is weird: 
"right-click on an empty section of the Tab Strip..."

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#190408

On 12/28/17, The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On 2017-12-28 at 09:37, Dan Norton wrote:
>
>> On 12/22/2017 08:46 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
>
>>> On 2017-12-22 at 20:25, Dan Norton wrote:
>
>>>> Interesting. You're not going to see Edit however unless you have
>>>> a Write in progress.
>>>
>>> Eh? In the main Thunderbird or Firefox window - with the folder
>>> list, message list, and (in my preferred layout) selected message -
>>> I most certainly do see an Edit menu; it's right next to the File
>>> menu.
>>
>> No File or Edit menu in the main window here.
>>
>>>> From the window where you read email, you can get to Preferences
>>>> via some mouse gymnastics and then to Account settings. This
>>>> window could use a tool bar.
>>> No complicated gymnastics are required; it's simply Edit ->
>>> Preferences. (I don't even know what gymnastics you're proposing.)
>>
>> I installed Thunderbird on a netinst of Debian 8 and 9 using
>> synaptic. Same result for both: no File or Edit menu.
>>
>> What version of Thunderbird are you using? How did you install it?
>
> (I replied to your off-list response before seeing this one. Sorry.)
>
> I'd forgotten that apparently Thunderbird now ships with the menu bar
> disabled by default, for the same (IMO wrongheaded) reasons as Firefox
> does.
>
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/display-thunderbird-menus-and-toolbar
> explains how to turn it back on; it's been so long since I did so that
> I'd forgotten that having it off was even an option, especially since I
> don't understand (on any but an intellectual level) why anyone would
> want to have it off.


I accidentally stumbled upon being able to use ALT+F to bring up the
toolbar without toggling it into (semi-)permanent view. I think I
meant to hit CTRL+F to "find" something once upon a time and clicked
the ALT key instead.

ALT+F seems to work for a couple different packages that also default
to the toolbar being toggled out of view. With the ALT+F trick now in
hand, I leave all mine toggled off. It's less distracting for my
brain. :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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#190410

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> [...]
>
> I accidentally stumbled upon being able to use ALT+F to bring up the
> toolbar without toggling it into (semi-)permanent view. I think I
> meant to hit CTRL+F to "find" something once upon a time and clicked
> the ALT key instead.
>
> ALT+F seems to work for a couple different packages that also default
> to the toolbar being toggled out of view. With the ALT+F trick now in
> hand, I leave all mine toggled off. It's less distracting for my
> brain. :)

I believe <ALT>+<First Letter> works for most any menubar

 - (F)ile
 - (V)iew
 - (E)dit
 - (H)elp
 - etc...

If the window / program has one of those upper-left menus (with the
program icon) for window-managent (Move, resize, etc), <ALT>+<SPACE>
usually opens that one.

Though it's been a long time, so I could be mistaken -- I believe if you
press and hold (or sometimes hold for a few seconds then release) it'll
highlight or underline the relevant character to open that menu (might
even give you a selection 'cursor' so you can use the arrow keys to
navigate).

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-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#190414

On 12/28/17, Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> I accidentally stumbled upon being able to use ALT+F to bring up the
>> toolbar without toggling it into (semi-)permanent view. I think I
>> meant to hit CTRL+F to "find" something once upon a time and clicked
>> the ALT key instead.
>>
>> ALT+F seems to work for a couple different packages that also default
>> to the toolbar being toggled out of view. With the ALT+F trick now in
>> hand, I leave all mine toggled off. It's less distracting for my
>> brain. :)
>
> I believe <ALT>+<First Letter> works for most any menubar
>
>  - (F)ile
>  - (V)iew
>  - (E)dit
>  - (H)elp
>  - etc...
>
> If the window / program has one of those upper-left menus (with the
> program icon) for window-managent (Move, resize, etc), <ALT>+<SPACE>
> usually opens that one.
>
> Though it's been a long time, so I could be mistaken -- I believe if you
> press and hold (or sometimes hold for a few seconds then release) it'll
> highlight or underline the relevant character to open that menu (might
> even give you a selection 'cursor' so you can use the arrow keys to
> navigate).

It does do those things, bring up the various existing topics. It's a
nice feature that various packages *very nicely* carry fairly
universally. I did once encounter something where that didn't work,
but that was a rare occasion long ago.

What I should have additionally said the first time 'round is that
ALT+F brings the toolbar *out of hiding* without having to track down
how to unhide the toolbar first.

On a quick test just now, Opera didn't acknowledge ALT+E and ALT+V
because Opera's current menu is not set up that way. It does seem
reasonable to a-sume that packages with "View", "Edit", "Tool", etc,
MIGHT  be toggle-able out of hiding using ALT with their corresponding
letters, but I don't have anything I can think of to test drive the
theory on just this second. :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with 1960s tin New Year's Eve noisemaker in hand *

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#190463

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On 29/12/17 05:37, Dan Purgert wrote:
> I believe <ALT>+<First Letter> works for most any menubar
> 
>  - (F)ile
>  - (V)iew
>  - (E)dit
>  - (H)elp
>  - etc...

That's been true for a long time. Generally the significant letter is
underlined. It certainly worked on MS Works 2.0 (for DOS).

> If the window / program has one of those upper-left menus (with the
> program icon) for window-managent (Move, resize, etc), <ALT>+<SPACE>
> usually opens that one.

That worked in Windows 3, which was the first (and almost last) version
I used (on a regular basis on my own machine).

It's handy when you've lost the menu bar off the top of the screen or
whatever - alt-space to bring up that menu, then you can move the window
around or resize it with keys instead of the mouse.

> Though it's been a long time, so I could be mistaken -- I believe if you
> press and hold (or sometimes hold for a few seconds then release) it'll
> highlight or underline the relevant character to open that menu (might
> even give you a selection 'cursor' so you can use the arrow keys to
> navigate).

That I didn't know - I hadn't noticed that some apps don't show the
underlines all the time. Thanks :-)

Richard

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