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9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot

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  9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2017-10-06 07:40 +0200
    Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-10-06 08:30 +0200
      Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2017-10-06 08:50 +0200
        Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-10-06 09:10 +0200
          Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2017-10-06 10:10 +0200
            Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-06 12:40 +0200
              Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2017-10-06 14:20 +0200
                Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-06 15:10 +0200
                  Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2017-10-06 17:00 +0200
                    Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-06 17:40 +0200
                      Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-06 19:00 +0200
                        Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-06 21:10 +0200
                          Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2017-10-06 23:30 +0200
                            Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 00:50 +0200
                              Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 04:40 +0200
                                Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 12:20 +0200
                                  Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 21:10 +0200
                                    Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 21:30 +0200
                              Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2017-10-07 12:20 +0200
                                Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 13:10 +0200
                                  Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 16:10 +0200
                Re: 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2017-10-06 15:40 +0200

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#187605 — 9.1.0 : netinst : installs well, but useless after firstboot

hello,

i just installed the firmware netinst version of 9.1.0 from; 
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.1.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso 
and post first boot failed to get the network readily available.

the biggest problem is that my machine does not have a wired network 
interface, only wifi (which works just fine under ubuntu 17.04), and so 
can't figure out how to move ahead without having to reboot off the 
ubuntu 17.04 in "live" mode.

any help on how to proceed with setting up the network after completion 
of the install (in spite of having had setup the network during install) 
would be most welcome.

thanks,

~mayuresh

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#187607

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:07:22AM +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> hello,
> 
> i just installed the firmware netinst version of 9.1.0 from;
> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.1.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> and post first boot failed to get the network readily available.
> 
> the biggest problem is that my machine does not have a wired
> network interface, only wifi (which works just fine under ubuntu
> 17.04), and so can't figure out how to move ahead without having to
> reboot off the ubuntu 17.04 in "live" mode.
> 
> any help on how to proceed with setting up the network after
> completion of the install (in spite of having had setup the network
> during install) would be most welcome.

Install a firmware for your wifi perhaps? If you have Intel, this
could be the package required:

firmware-iwlwifi

Unfortunately this may mean manually downloading the .deb file,
transferring it via sneakernet (or saving to a known hdd location)
and using a command like:

dpkg --install firmware-iwlwifi....deb

Good luck,

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#187608

On 2017-10-06 11:56 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:07:22AM +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
>> hello,
>> 
>> i just installed the firmware netinst version of 9.1.0 from;
>> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.1.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso
>> and post first boot failed to get the network readily available.
>> 
>> the biggest problem is that my machine does not have a wired
>> network interface, only wifi (which works just fine under ubuntu
>> 17.04), and so can't figure out how to move ahead without having to
>> reboot off the ubuntu 17.04 in "live" mode.
>> 
>> any help on how to proceed with setting up the network after
>> completion of the install (in spite of having had setup the network
>> during install) would be most welcome.
> 
> Install a firmware for your wifi perhaps? If you have Intel, this
> could be the package required:
> 
> firmware-iwlwifi
> 
> Unfortunately this may mean manually downloading the .deb file,
> transferring it via sneakernet (or saving to a known hdd location)
> and using a command like:
> 
> dpkg --install firmware-iwlwifi....deb

the firmware is already installed during installation process.
that's how the rest of the additional software did get installed
in the first place.
but, then, after first boot, bang, there's no network.
i have experienced this even during previous debian versions on
previous (older) hardware. everything during install proceeds
just smoothly, but the moment after first boot, the wifi isn't
ready for use.

am now going through the debian wiki, maybe that might have some
pointers about how i could move ahead on this, in the meanwhile
if anyone has any suggestions, they are most welcome. :)

thanks,

~mayuresh

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#187610

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 12:10:09PM +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> On 2017-10-06 11:56 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:07:22AM +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > > hello,
> > > 
> > > i just installed the firmware netinst version of 9.1.0 from;
> > > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.1.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> > > and post first boot failed to get the network readily available.
> > > 
> > > the biggest problem is that my machine does not have a wired
> > > network interface, only wifi (which works just fine under ubuntu
> > > 17.04), and so can't figure out how to move ahead without having to
> > > reboot off the ubuntu 17.04 in "live" mode.
> > > 
> > > any help on how to proceed with setting up the network after
> > > completion of the install (in spite of having had setup the network
> > > during install) would be most welcome.
> > 
> > Install a firmware for your wifi perhaps? If you have Intel, this
> > could be the package required:
> > 
> > firmware-iwlwifi
> > 
> > Unfortunately this may mean manually downloading the .deb file,
> > transferring it via sneakernet (or saving to a known hdd location)
> > and using a command like:
> > 
> > dpkg --install firmware-iwlwifi....deb
> 
> the firmware is already installed during installation process.

Are you sure? You may be right - but double check to make sure...

> that's how the rest of the additional software did get installed
> in the first place.

Not necessarily so :)

The install-script packages are NOT the same as the install packages.

So, are you sure that the appropriate firmware- package is installed?


> but, then, after first boot, bang, there's no network.
> i have experienced this even during previous debian versions on
> previous (older) hardware. everything during install proceeds
> just smoothly, but the moment after first boot, the wifi isn't
> ready for use.
> 
> am now going through the debian wiki, maybe that might have some
> pointers about how i could move ahead on this, in the meanwhile
> if anyone has any suggestions, they are most welcome. :)

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#187611

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 06:03:24PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 12:10:09PM +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > On 2017-10-06 11:56 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:07:22AM +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > > > hello,
> > > > 
> > > > i just installed the firmware netinst version of 9.1.0 from;
> > > > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.1.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.1.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> > > > and post first boot failed to get the network readily available.
> > > > 
> > > > the biggest problem is that my machine does not have a wired
> > > > network interface, only wifi (which works just fine under ubuntu
> > > > 17.04), and so can't figure out how to move ahead without having to
> > > > reboot off the ubuntu 17.04 in "live" mode.
> > > > 
> > > > any help on how to proceed with setting up the network after
> > > > completion of the install (in spite of having had setup the network
> > > > during install) would be most welcome.
> > > 
> > > Install a firmware for your wifi perhaps? If you have Intel, this
> > > could be the package required:
> > > 
> > > firmware-iwlwifi
> > > 
> > > Unfortunately this may mean manually downloading the .deb file,
> > > transferring it via sneakernet (or saving to a known hdd location)
> > > and using a command like:
> > > 
> > > dpkg --install firmware-iwlwifi....deb
> > 
> > the firmware is already installed during installation process.
> 
> Are you sure? You may be right - but double check to make sure...

yes, i am very sure. double checked. the interface wlo1 exists.
 
there's a procedure mentioned in the wiki which shows how to setup
wifi via wpa_supplicant through modifications to the file;
/etc/network/interfaces

it's now working, but not automatically coming up, i still have to
manually issue 'ifup wlo1' in spite of having mentioned "auto" in
the configuration file for the "wlo1" interface.
off to check on that now, but if someone has any advice, please do
share, it would be most welcome. :)

it kind-a sucks that the debian installer accepts all the wifi
parameters, activates the network only during installation and
then does not include that information for post install work.
atleast provide an option during the installation to accept the
parameters and have them persist after the installation is done.

thanks,

~mayuresh

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#187613

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 13:34:55 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 06:03:24PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > 
> > Are you sure? You may be right - but double check to make sure...
> 
> yes, i am very sure. double checked. the interface wlo1 exists.
>  
> there's a procedure mentioned in the wiki which shows how to setup
> wifi via wpa_supplicant through modifications to the file;
> /etc/network/interfaces
> 
> it's now working, but not automatically coming up, i still have to
> manually issue 'ifup wlo1' in spite of having mentioned "auto" in
> the configuration file for the "wlo1" interface.
> off to check on that now, but if someone has any advice, please do
> share, it would be most welcome. :)
> 
> it kind-a sucks that the debian installer accepts all the wifi
> parameters, activates the network only during installation and
> then does not include that information for post install work.
> atleast provide an option during the installation to accept the
> parameters and have them persist after the installation is done.

What DE did you install from the installer?

-- 
Brian.

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#187615

On 2017-10-06 04:06 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 13:34:55 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 06:03:24PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> >
>> > Are you sure? You may be right - but double check to make sure...
>> 
>> yes, i am very sure. double checked. the interface wlo1 exists.
>> 
>> there's a procedure mentioned in the wiki which shows how to setup
>> wifi via wpa_supplicant through modifications to the file;
>> /etc/network/interfaces
>> 
>> it's now working, but not automatically coming up, i still have to
>> manually issue 'ifup wlo1' in spite of having mentioned "auto" in
>> the configuration file for the "wlo1" interface.
>> off to check on that now, but if someone has any advice, please do
>> share, it would be most welcome. :)
>> 
>> it kind-a sucks that the debian installer accepts all the wifi
>> parameters, activates the network only during installation and
>> then does not include that information for post install work.
>> atleast provide an option during the installation to accept the
>> parameters and have them persist after the installation is done.
> 
> What DE did you install from the installer?

'de'? desktop environment!
i did not install any graphical system, i prefer to work at the text
console, that's why i am on debian, else would have been on ubuntu.

thanks,

~mayuresh

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#187622

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 17:41:23 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:

> On 2017-10-06 04:06 PM, Brian wrote:
> >On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 13:34:55 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> >
> >>On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 06:03:24PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Are you sure? You may be right - but double check to make sure...
> >>
> >>yes, i am very sure. double checked. the interface wlo1 exists.
> >>
> >>there's a procedure mentioned in the wiki which shows how to setup
> >>wifi via wpa_supplicant through modifications to the file;
> >>/etc/network/interfaces
> >>
> >>it's now working, but not automatically coming up, i still have to
> >>manually issue 'ifup wlo1' in spite of having mentioned "auto" in
> >>the configuration file for the "wlo1" interface.
> >>off to check on that now, but if someone has any advice, please do
> >>share, it would be most welcome. :)
> >>
> >>it kind-a sucks that the debian installer accepts all the wifi
> >>parameters, activates the network only during installation and
> >>then does not include that information for post install work.
> >>atleast provide an option during the installation to accept the
> >>parameters and have them persist after the installation is done.
> >
> >What DE did you install from the installer?
> 
> 'de'? desktop environment!
> i did not install any graphical system, i prefer to work at the text
> console, that's why i am on debian, else would have been on ubuntu.

Not installing a DE is why connectivity did not exist. The outcome is by
design but the reason for it it has never really been given. I think the
idea is that, having not selected to install network-manager you
definitely do not want what the installer has produced and desire to set
up your wireless network with your chosen software. Which is precisely
what you are doing now :). Please see the bug list for netcfg.

For future reference: you can avoid being in the situation you have now
by

1. preseeding with netcfg/target_network_config=ifupdown, or
2. making a note of the contents of the installer's interfaces file in
   /etc/network/ *before* finishing the installation.

As for your present issue:

 allow-hotplug wlo1
 iface wlo1 inet dhcp
	wpa-ssid <station>
	wpa-psk <passphrase>

in /e/n/i should work.

-- 
Brian.

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#187635

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 02:07:27PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 17:41:23 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> 
> > On 2017-10-06 04:06 PM, Brian wrote:
> > >On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 13:34:55 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > >
> > >>On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 06:03:24PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Are you sure? You may be right - but double check to make sure...
> > >>
> > >>yes, i am very sure. double checked. the interface wlo1 exists.
> > >>
> > >>there's a procedure mentioned in the wiki which shows how to setup
> > >>wifi via wpa_supplicant through modifications to the file;
> > >>/etc/network/interfaces
> > >>
> > >>it's now working, but not automatically coming up, i still have to
> > >>manually issue 'ifup wlo1' in spite of having mentioned "auto" in
> > >>the configuration file for the "wlo1" interface.
> > >>off to check on that now, but if someone has any advice, please do
> > >>share, it would be most welcome. :)
> > >>
> > >>it kind-a sucks that the debian installer accepts all the wifi
> > >>parameters, activates the network only during installation and
> > >>then does not include that information for post install work.
> > >>atleast provide an option during the installation to accept the
> > >>parameters and have them persist after the installation is done.
> > >
> > >What DE did you install from the installer?
> > 
> > 'de'? desktop environment!
> > i did not install any graphical system, i prefer to work at the text
> > console, that's why i am on debian, else would have been on ubuntu.
> 
> Not installing a DE is why connectivity did not exist. The outcome is by
> design but the reason for it it has never really been given. I think the
> idea is that, having not selected to install network-manager you
> definitely do not want what the installer has produced and desire to set
> up your wireless network with your chosen software. Which is precisely
> what you are doing now :). Please see the bug list for netcfg.
> 
> For future reference: you can avoid being in the situation you have now
> by
> 
> 1. preseeding with netcfg/target_network_config=ifupdown, or
> 2. making a note of the contents of the installer's interfaces file in
>    /etc/network/ *before* finishing the installation.
> 
> As for your present issue:
> 
>  allow-hotplug wlo1
>  iface wlo1 inet dhcp
> 	wpa-ssid <station>
> 	wpa-psk <passphrase>
> 
> in /e/n/i should work.

tried it, no effect, on close inspection of the boot-up process,
the problem seems to be with the wifi hardware on my laptop.
it takes more time to initialize and hence when "allow-hotplug"
based commands are executed it isn't ready for work.

after letting the system boot-up, i have to wait a few seconds
before i can issue "ifup wlo1" and that too takes unusually
long to complete.

thanks nevertheless. :)

~mayuresh

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#187638

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 20:25:51 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 02:07:27PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > 
> > As for your present issue:
> > 
> >  allow-hotplug wlo1
> >  iface wlo1 inet dhcp
> > 	wpa-ssid <station>
> > 	wpa-psk <passphrase>
> > 
> > in /e/n/i should work.
> 
> tried it, no effect, on close inspection of the boot-up process,
> the problem seems to be with the wifi hardware on my laptop.
> it takes more time to initialize and hence when "allow-hotplug"
> based commands are executed it isn't ready for work.

I've not usually encountered any problem with this stanza. I'm also
fairly sure it is what a preseeded installer gives you. You could
try "auto", I suppose.

> after letting the system boot-up, i have to wait a few seconds
> before i can issue "ifup wlo1" and that too takes unusually
> long to complete.

It could be dhcp taking its time. Use 'ifup -v wlo1' to find out.

-- 
Brian.

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#187645

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 16:35:53 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 20:25:51 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 02:07:27PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > 
> > > As for your present issue:
> > > 
> > >  allow-hotplug wlo1
> > >  iface wlo1 inet dhcp
> > > 	wpa-ssid <station>
> > > 	wpa-psk <passphrase>
> > > 
> > > in /e/n/i should work.
> > 
> > tried it, no effect, on close inspection of the boot-up process,
> > the problem seems to be with the wifi hardware on my laptop.
> > it takes more time to initialize and hence when "allow-hotplug"
> > based commands are executed it isn't ready for work.
> 
> I've not usually encountered any problem with this stanza. I'm also
> fairly sure it is what a preseeded installer gives you. You could
> try "auto", I suppose.
> 
> > after letting the system boot-up, i have to wait a few seconds
> > before i can issue "ifup wlo1" and that too takes unusually
> > long to complete.
> 
> It could be dhcp taking its time. Use 'ifup -v wlo1' to find out.

My own experience is that ifup/down works fine with ethernet
but is hopeless with wifi because there's nothing to restart
it if/when the signal drops out.

So I install wicd-curses which has a daemon to monitor the service
and restart it as necessary. You don't have to be root to run it
either.

However, you would need to remove/comment out the   iface wlo1
stanza from /e/n/i because its presence would prevent wicd from
managing that interface.

Remember to start with P in wicd-curses to check that it knows
to look for wlo1 and not wlan0.

(Please correct any misconceptions I might have.)

Cheers,
David.

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#187650

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 11:59:17 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 16:35:53 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 20:25:51 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 02:07:27PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > As for your present issue:
> > > > 
> > > >  allow-hotplug wlo1
> > > >  iface wlo1 inet dhcp
> > > > 	wpa-ssid <station>
> > > > 	wpa-psk <passphrase>
> > > > 
> > > > in /e/n/i should work.
> > > 
> > > tried it, no effect, on close inspection of the boot-up process,
> > > the problem seems to be with the wifi hardware on my laptop.
> > > it takes more time to initialize and hence when "allow-hotplug"
> > > based commands are executed it isn't ready for work.
> > 
> > I've not usually encountered any problem with this stanza. I'm also
> > fairly sure it is what a preseeded installer gives you. You could
> > try "auto", I suppose.
> > 
> > > after letting the system boot-up, i have to wait a few seconds
> > > before i can issue "ifup wlo1" and that too takes unusually
> > > long to complete.
> > 
> > It could be dhcp taking its time. Use 'ifup -v wlo1' to find out.
> 
> My own experience is that ifup/down works fine with ethernet
> but is hopeless with wifi because there's nothing to restart
> it if/when the signal drops out.
> 
> So I install wicd-curses which has a daemon to monitor the service
> and restart it as necessary. You don't have to be root to run it
> either.
> 
> However, you would need to remove/comment out the   iface wlo1
> stanza from /e/n/i because its presence would prevent wicd from
> managing that interface.
> 
> Remember to start with P in wicd-curses to check that it knows
> to look for wlo1 and not wlan0.
> 
> (Please correct any misconceptions I might have.)

I do not think you necessarily have any miscoconceptions and, if you
have, I am not the one to disabuse you of them. My laptop's wireless
is managed by ifupdown and wpa_supplicant. Switching off the wireless
access point and switching it on again sees the laptop reconnect to
the access point. It could be ifplugd is involved in the process but
I have not examined the fine details of my setup to find out.

OTOH, the wireless sometimes drops out without my intervention. Then
I have to resort to ejecting and reserting the PCMCIA card to get it
going again. One day (I say to myself) I'll work out what is happening.

I see WiFi as akin to magic. All those elecromagnetic waves bouncing
of many walls and doors and even penetrating them when they shouldn't.
While I prefer ethernet connections I can live with wireless if it
behaves itself :).

wicd is fine but it utterly dependent on the supplicant. Now I am
thinking how to adapt my setup (if necessary) to do the same as the
wicd-curses daemon.

-- 
Brian.

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#187654

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:08:42PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 11:59:17 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
Sorry to interrupt here.
In case of no NM and the /e/n/i issues might I suggest systemd-networkd?
It is really reliable in bringing up any connection.

There is a fairly good example how to do it here:
https://sunweavers.net/blog/node/34

It is definitely a better setup than /e/n/i.

-H

 
-- 
Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com>

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#187661

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 17:27:57 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:08:42PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 11:59:17 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > 
> Sorry to interrupt here.
> In case of no NM and the /e/n/i issues might I suggest systemd-networkd?
> It is really reliable in bringing up any connection.

You certainly can suggest it. I am sure it would fit the bill; as would
connman. (The Debian approach of leaving a user with no connectivity
after an installation which requires it must be a first in Linux, so
anything which restores connectivity cannot be bad).

> There is a fairly good example how to do it here:
> https://sunweavers.net/blog/node/34
> 
> It is definitely a better setup than /e/n/i.

Does it handle wireless roaming? ifupdown + wpa_supplicant does.

-- 
Brian.

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#187668

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 23:49:01 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 17:27:57 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:08:42PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 11:59:17 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > 
> > Sorry to interrupt here.
> > In case of no NM and the /e/n/i issues might I suggest systemd-networkd?
> > It is really reliable in bringing up any connection.
> 
> You certainly can suggest it. I am sure it would fit the bill; as would
> connman. (The Debian approach of leaving a user with no connectivity
> after an installation which requires it must be a first in Linux, so
> anything which restores connectivity cannot be bad).

Another question to be posed by the debian-installer?

> > There is a fairly good example how to do it here:
> > https://sunweavers.net/blog/node/34
> > 
> > It is definitely a better setup than /e/n/i.
> 
> Does it handle wireless roaming? ifupdown + wpa_supplicant does.

What does one do when staying in, say, a new hotel?

Cheers,
David.

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#187682

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:39:28 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 23:49:01 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 17:27:57 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:08:42PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 11:59:17 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > > 
> > > Sorry to interrupt here.
> > > In case of no NM and the /e/n/i issues might I suggest systemd-networkd?
> > > It is really reliable in bringing up any connection.
> > 
> > You certainly can suggest it. I am sure it would fit the bill; as would
> > connman. (The Debian approach of leaving a user with no connectivity
> > after an installation which requires it must be a first in Linux, so
> > anything which restores connectivity cannot be bad).
> 
> Another question to be posed by the debian-installer?

My recollection is of a short disscussion along those lines. But nothing
came of it.

Establishing connectivity on a machine with no other OS available can be
done with ifupdown and the stanza deleted by the installation restored.
Someone has a sense of humour.

> > > There is a fairly good example how to do it here:
> > > https://sunweavers.net/blog/node/34
> > > 
> > > It is definitely a better setup than /e/n/i.
> > 
> > Does it handle wireless roaming? ifupdown + wpa_supplicant does.
> 
> What does one do when staying in, say, a new hotel?

Networks are managed by a file in /etc/wpa_supplicant. The file can be
edited by hand or a network added with wpagui,

-- 
Brian.

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#187699

On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 11:11:19 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:39:28 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 23:49:01 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 17:27:57 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:

> > > > There is a fairly good example how to do it here:
> > > > https://sunweavers.net/blog/node/34
> > > > 
> > > > It is definitely a better setup than /e/n/i.
> > > 
> > > Does it handle wireless roaming? ifupdown + wpa_supplicant does.
> > 
> > What does one do when staying in, say, a new hotel?
> 
> Networks are managed by a file in /etc/wpa_supplicant. The file can be
> edited by hand or a network added with wpagui,

So that's either being root or running X?

Whereas wicd has a TUI.

Cheers,
David.

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#187701

On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 14:01:13 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 11:11:19 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:39:28 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 23:49:01 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> > > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 17:27:57 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> 
> > > > > There is a fairly good example how to do it here:
> > > > > https://sunweavers.net/blog/node/34
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is definitely a better setup than /e/n/i.
> > > > 
> > > > Does it handle wireless roaming? ifupdown + wpa_supplicant does.
> > > 
> > > What does one do when staying in, say, a new hotel?
> > 
> > Networks are managed by a file in /etc/wpa_supplicant. The file can be
> > edited by hand or a network added with wpagui,
> 
> So that's either being root or running X?
> 
> Whereas wicd has a TUI.

Running X. The user is in the netdev group.

-- 
Brian.

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#187683

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:49:01PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 17:27:57 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:08:42PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 11:59:17 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > 
> > Sorry to interrupt here.
> > In case of no NM and the /e/n/i issues might I suggest systemd-networkd?
> > It is really reliable in bringing up any connection.
> 
> You certainly can suggest it. I am sure it would fit the bill; as would
> connman. (The Debian approach of leaving a user with no connectivity
> after an installation which requires it must be a first in Linux, so
> anything which restores connectivity cannot be bad).
> 
> > There is a fairly good example how to do it here:
> > https://sunweavers.net/blog/node/34
> > 
> > It is definitely a better setup than /e/n/i.
> 
> Does it handle wireless roaming? ifupdown + wpa_supplicant does.

Any way what method you are using it depends on wpa_supplicant.
The config file can have multiple network definitions in it.
What differs is how you add a new stanza into that file and where the file
is located.

-H


-- 
Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com>

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#187684

On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 06:13:44 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:49:01PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 17:27:57 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:08:42PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 11:59:17 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > > 
> > > Sorry to interrupt here.
> > > In case of no NM and the /e/n/i issues might I suggest systemd-networkd?
> > > It is really reliable in bringing up any connection.
> > 
> > You certainly can suggest it. I am sure it would fit the bill; as would
> > connman. (The Debian approach of leaving a user with no connectivity
> > after an installation which requires it must be a first in Linux, so
> > anything which restores connectivity cannot be bad).
> > 
> > > There is a fairly good example how to do it here:
> > > https://sunweavers.net/blog/node/34
> > > 
> > > It is definitely a better setup than /e/n/i.
> > 
> > Does it handle wireless roaming? ifupdown + wpa_supplicant does.
> 
> Any way what method you are using it depends on wpa_supplicant.
> The config file can have multiple network definitions in it.
> What differs is how you add a new stanza into that file and where the file
> is located.

Thank you for the expansion.

I own up to not even glancing at the page given by the link; put it down
to the lateness of the hour! Having taken a look at its content (and
other pages elsewhere) the ideas seem worth pursuing for an hour or two
today. But there will have to be a GUI way of editing the wpa_supplicant
file, otherwise the troops here will rebel. wpagui is a user interface
for wpa_supplicant so it should be possible to hook it in.

-- 
Brian.

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