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x : keyboard not working

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  x : keyboard not working Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2017-10-06 17:00 +0200
    Re: x : keyboard not working Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-06 17:10 +0200
      Re: x : keyboard not working Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2017-10-06 18:00 +0200
        Re: x : keyboard not working Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-06 20:00 +0200
        Re: x : keyboard not working Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-06 21:40 +0200
          Re: x : keyboard not working Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-06 22:40 +0200
            Re: x : keyboard not working Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 00:40 +0200
              Re: x : keyboard not working Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-07 01:00 +0200
                Re: x : keyboard not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 03:30 +0200
                  Re: x : keyboard not working Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-07 07:20 +0200
                    Re: x : keyboard not working Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-10-07 13:30 +0200
                    Re: x : keyboard not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-09 05:50 +0200
          Re: x : keyboard not working Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-10-06 23:40 +0200
            Re: x : keyboard not working Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 00:20 +0200
              Re: x : keyboard not working Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-10-07 00:40 +0200
                Re: x : keyboard not working Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 01:00 +0200
                  Re: x : keyboard not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 03:40 +0200
                    Re: x : keyboard not working Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-10-07 13:20 +0200
                      Re: x : keyboard not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-09 06:20 +0200
                        Re: x : keyboard not working Mattia Oss <mais.toast@gmail.com> - 2017-10-09 20:30 +0200
                          Re: x : keyboard not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-13 00:20 +0200
                      Re: x : keyboard not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-09 06:30 +0200
    Re: x : keyboard not working <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-06 17:10 +0200
      Re: x : keyboard not working Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2017-10-06 17:50 +0200
        Re: x : keyboard not working tomas@tuxteam.de - 2017-10-06 18:30 +0200
          Re: x : keyboard not working Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-06 20:40 +0200
            Re: x : keyboard not working deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-10-07 01:10 +0200
              Re: x : keyboard not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-07 04:20 +0200
              Re: x : keyboard not working Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-07 06:20 +0200
                Re: x : keyboard not working <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-07 09:30 +0200
                  Re: x : keyboard not working Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-07 11:10 +0200
                    Re: x : keyboard not working <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-07 11:20 +0200
                      Re: x : keyboard not working Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-07 12:00 +0200
                  Re: x : keyboard not working Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-10-07 13:40 +0200
                    Re: x : keyboard not working Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-07 16:20 +0200
                      Re: x : keyboard not working Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-10-08 04:20 +0200
                        Re: x : keyboard not working Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-08 05:40 +0200
                          Re: x : keyboard not working Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2017-10-08 06:00 +0200
                            Re: x : keyboard not working Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2017-10-08 07:10 +0200
                    Re: x : keyboard not working Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-10-13 00:50 +0200
        Re: x : keyboard not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-13 05:00 +0200
    Re: x : keyboard not working David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-06 18:50 +0200
    Re: x : keyboard not working Floris <jkfloris@dds.nl> - 2017-10-07 11:30 +0200

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#187634 — x : keyboard not working

i have now reached a point at which i have given up on resetting
the display resolution to a desirable mode. all attempts based
on suggestions on the list as well on other sources on the web
have failed to produce results.

in desperation, i reached out to the "x windowing system" to
give me a readable font size by way of xterm windows.
i chose the venerable and light "mwm" and configured the
system as below;

---- .xinitrc ----
#!/bin/sh

xterm -geometry 80x24+100+100 &
xsetroot -solid black &
mwm
-------------------

---- .mwmrc ----
Menu DefaultRootMenu
{
	"Root Menu"		f.title
	"New Window"		f.exec "xterm &"
	"Shuffle Up"		f.circle_up
	"Shuffle Down"		f.circle_down
	"Refresh"		f.refresh
	"Pack Icons"		f.pack_icons
!	"Toggle Behavior..."	f.set_behavior
	 no-label		f.separator
	"Restart..."		f.restart
	"Quit..."		f.quit_mwm
}

!!
!! Default Window Menu Description
!!

Menu DefaultWindowMenu
{
	Restore		_R	Alt<Key>F5	f.restore
	Move		_M	Alt<Key>F7	f.move
	Size		_S	Alt<Key>F8	f.resize
	Minimize	_n	Alt<Key>F9	f.minimize
	Maximize	_x	Alt<Key>F10	f.maximize
	Lower		_L	Alt<Key>F3	f.lower
	no-label				f.separator
	Close		_C	Alt<Key>F4	f.kill
}


!!
!! Key Binding Description
!!

Keys DefaultKeyBindings
{
	Shift<Key>Escape	window|icon		f.post_wmenu
	Alt<Key>space		window|icon		f.post_wmenu
	Alt<Key>Tab		root|icon|window	f.next_key
	Alt Shift<Key>Tab	root|icon|window	f.prev_key
	Alt<Key>Escape		root|icon|window	f.circle_down
	Alt Shift<Key>Escape	root|icon|window	f.circle_up
	Alt Shift Ctrl<Key>exclam root|icon|window	f.set_behavior
	Alt<Key>F6		window			f.next_key transient
	Alt Shift<Key>F6	window			f.prev_key transient
	Shift<Key>F10		icon			f.post_wmenu
!	Alt Shift<Key>Delete	root|icon|window	f.restart
}

!!
!! Button Binding Description(s)
!!

Buttons DefaultButtonBindings
{
	<Btn1Down>	icon|frame	f.raise
	<Btn3Down>	icon|frame	f.post_wmenu
	<Btn3Down>	root		f.menu	DefaultRootMenu
}
 
Buttons ExplicitButtonBindings
{
	<Btn1Down>	frame|icon	f.raise
	<Btn3Down>	frame|icon	f.post_wmenu
	<Btn3Down>	root		f.menu	DefaultRootMenu
!	<Btn1Up>	icon		f.restore
	Alt<Btn1Down>	window|icon	f.lower
!	Alt<Btn2Down>	window|icon	f.resize
!	Alt<Btn3Down>	window|icon	f.move

}
 
Buttons PointerButtonBindings
{
	<Btn1Down>	frame|icon	f.raise
	<Btn3Down>	frame|icon	f.post_wmenu
	<Btn3Down>	root		f.menu	DefaultRootMenu
	<Btn1Down>	window		f.raise
!	<Btn1Up>	icon		f.restore
	Alt<Btn1Down>	window|icon	f.lower
!	Alt<Btn2Down>	window|icon	f.resize
!	Alt<Btn3Down>	window|icon	f.move
}
----------------

the above configurations were created by working on copies of
system configuration files delivered along with the installs.

the 'gui' works on executing 'startx' at the command prompt.
and the system "looks" beautiful (in a minimalistic way).
but, the keyboard isn't working under x, no input accepted.
mouse pointer works just fine.

any help and/or pointers in the right direction would be most
welcome.

thanks,

~mayuresh

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#187636

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 05:02:45PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:22:41PM +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> [X keyboard not working]
> 
> This depends on a couple of things. E.g. is your X using X input?

The more likely candidate is a lack of focus on the correct window.
Depending on the window manager in use, and how it's configured, you
may either need to click on a window, or have the mouse pointer
constantly hovering on that window, in order to be able to type there.

The former behavior is called "click to focus", and should be familiar
to Microsoft Windows users.

The latter behavior is called "focus follows mouse", and is the
more traditional X window manager behavior.

If you actually start X without ANY window manager, you get a borderless
xterm window in the upper left corner.  In order to type in that window,
you will need to move the mouse so that it's inside the window.

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#187640

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:08:07AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 05:02:45PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:22:41PM +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > [X keyboard not working]
> > 
> > This depends on a couple of things. E.g. is your X using X input?
> 
> The more likely candidate is a lack of focus on the correct window.
> Depending on the window manager in use, and how it's configured, you
> may either need to click on a window, or have the mouse pointer
> constantly hovering on that window, in order to be able to type there.
> 
> The former behavior is called "click to focus", and should be familiar
> to Microsoft Windows users.
> 
> The latter behavior is called "focus follows mouse", and is the
> more traditional X window manager behavior.
> 
> If you actually start X without ANY window manager, you get a borderless
> xterm window in the upper left corner.  In order to type in that window,
> you will need to move the mouse so that it's inside the window.
> 

in this case, you can rule out that candidate.
i have been working with unix and unix-like systems since 1997, have
been aware of that mouse-focus scenario. :)
nevertheless, followed your advice, and did click on the window under
"mwm" and hovered over the window under "twm", neither provided me with
the required support for keyboard input.

for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
x server. :(

~mayuresh

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#187647

Mayuresh Kathe composed on 2017-10-06 21:19 (UTC+0530):

>> > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:22:41PM +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:

>> > [X keyboard not working]
...
> i have been working with unix and unix-like systems since 1997, have
> been aware of that mouse-focus scenario. :)

Is it possible you're overlooking the obvious, missing a required input
driver package?

# cat /etc/debian-version
9.1
# dpkg -l | grep input
ii  libavdevice57:amd64           10:3.3.4-dmo1+deb9u1  amd64  FFmpeg library for handling input and output devices - runtime files
ii  libinput-bin                  1.6.3-1               amd64  input device management and event handling library - udev quirks
ii  libinput10:amd64              1.6.3-1               amd64  input device management and event handling library - shared library
ii  xserver-xorg-input-all        1:7.7+19              amd64  X.Org X server -- input driver metapackage
ii  xserver-xorg-input-evdev      1:2.10.5-1            amd64  X.Org X server -- evdev input driver
ii  xserver-xorg-input-libinput   0.23.0-2              amd64  X.Org X server -- libinput input driver
ii  xserver-xorg-input-mouse      1:1.9.2-1+b1          amd64  X.Org X server -- mouse input driver
ii  xserver-xorg-input-synaptics  1.9.0-1+b1            amd64  Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#187651

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:

> for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
> x server. :(

This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
it.

-- 
Brian.

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#187652

Brian composed on 2017-10-06 20:37 (UTC+0100):

> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:

>> for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
>> x server. :(

> This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
> in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
> it. 

It only disappeared as a default. It was switched to an option. I use the same
method to enable in Debian that works in Fedora and elsewhere:

# /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "system-keyboard"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        Option "XkbLayout" "us"
        Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
EndSection
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#187659

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 16:37:22 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

> Brian composed on 2017-10-06 20:37 (UTC+0100):
> 
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> 
> >> for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
> >> x server. :(
> 
> > This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
> > in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
> > it. 
> 
> It only disappeared as a default. It was switched to an option. I use the same
> method to enable in Debian that works in Fedora and elsewhere:
> 
> # /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf
> Section "InputClass"
>         Identifier "system-keyboard"
>         MatchIsKeyboard "on"
>         Option "XkbLayout" "us"
>         Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> EndSection

'setxbdmap -option "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"' in ~/.xsession is less
typing and more user-friendly.

-- 
Brian.

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#187662

Brian composed on 2017-10-06 23:31 (UTC+0100):

> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 16:37:22 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

>> Brian composed on 2017-10-06 20:37 (UTC+0100):

>> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:

>> >> for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
>> >> x server. :(

>> > This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
>> > in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
>> > it. 

>> It only disappeared as a default. It was switched to an option. I use the same
>> method to enable in Debian that works in Fedora and elsewhere:

>> # /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf
>> Section "InputClass"
>>         Identifier "system-keyboard"
>>         MatchIsKeyboard "on"
>>         Option "XkbLayout" "us"
>>         Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>> EndSection

> 'setxbdmap -option "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"' in ~/.xsession is less
> typing and more user-friendly. 

1-That was an "as-is" copy from Fedora on a multiboot system, much easier than
typing in an ~/.xsession file that didn't exist. I have no idea whether the
match or layout lines would be necessary in Debian.

2-Keyword: "user-friendly". /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf is global
configuration, vs. user-specific ~/.xsession.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#187665

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 18:57:31 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> Brian composed on 2017-10-06 23:31 (UTC+0100):
> 
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 16:37:22 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >> Brian composed on 2017-10-06 20:37 (UTC+0100):
> 
> >> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> 
> >> >> for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
> >> >> x server. :(
> 
> >> > This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
> >> > in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
> >> > it. 
> 
> >> It only disappeared as a default. It was switched to an option. I use the same
> >> method to enable in Debian that works in Fedora and elsewhere:
> 
> >> # /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf
> >> Section "InputClass"
> >>         Identifier "system-keyboard"
> >>         MatchIsKeyboard "on"
> >>         Option "XkbLayout" "us"
> >>         Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> >> EndSection
> 
> > 'setxbdmap -option "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"' in ~/.xsession is less
> > typing and more user-friendly. 
> 
> 1-That was an "as-is" copy from Fedora on a multiboot system, much easier than
> typing in an ~/.xsession file that didn't exist. I have no idea whether the
> match or layout lines would be necessary in Debian.
> 
> 2-Keyword: "user-friendly". /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf is global
> configuration, vs. user-specific ~/.xsession.

I don't understand why you want to do it this way. Debian unified
/etc/default/keyboard so that the values specified there are used
in both the VCs and X.

I stated this only a few days ago (thread: Make CapsLock an additional
Escape key) and it seems even more pertinent here because the OP
really wanted to be using the VC, not X. (We've had no feedback to
my suggestion that they use setfont to increase the font size, Duh.)

Cheers,
David.

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#187670

David Wright composed on 2017-10-06 20:25 (UTC-0500):

> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 18:57:31 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:

>> Brian composed on 2017-10-06 23:31 (UTC+0100):
...
>> > 'setxbdmap -option "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"' in ~/.xsession is less
>> > typing and more user-friendly. 

>> 1-That was an "as-is" copy from Fedora on a multiboot system, much easier than
>> typing in an ~/.xsession file that didn't exist. I have no idea whether the
>> match or layout lines would be necessary in Debian.

>> 2-Keyword: "user-friendly". /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf is global
>> configuration, vs. user-specific ~/.xsession.

> I don't understand why you want to do it this way. Debian unified
> /etc/default/keyboard so that the values specified there are used
> in both the VCs and X.

1-I was responding to the sole thread focus on user-specific configuration,
pointing out global configuration as an alternative.

2-xorg.conf came first, thus, familiarity with configuration via
/etc/X11/xorg.conf*. Most of the time I need to use it anyway for things
other than keyboard in Xorg. No need to fix what ain't broke.

3-man page for /etc/default/keyboard is a redirect to the keyboard man page,
which like most man pages I find thin on examples.

4-aversion to that directory name. To me, defaults are things shipped by the
distro provider. /etc/sysconfig/keyboard would make more sense for something
globally managed by the admin, along with keeping shipped defaults in /usr.

Alternatives in Gnu/Linux can be a double-edged sword. :-)
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#187687

On Sat, Oct 07, 2017 at 01:11:18AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> David Wright composed on 2017-10-06 20:25 (UTC-0500):
> 
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 18:57:31 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >> Brian composed on 2017-10-06 23:31 (UTC+0100):
> ...
> >> > 'setxbdmap -option "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"' in ~/.xsession is less
> >> > typing and more user-friendly. 
> 
> >> 1-That was an "as-is" copy from Fedora on a multiboot system, much easier than
> >> typing in an ~/.xsession file that didn't exist. I have no idea whether the
> >> match or layout lines would be necessary in Debian.
> 
> >> 2-Keyword: "user-friendly". /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf is global
> >> configuration, vs. user-specific ~/.xsession.
> 
> > I don't understand why you want to do it this way. Debian unified
> > /etc/default/keyboard so that the values specified there are used
> > in both the VCs and X.
> 
> 1-I was responding to the sole thread focus on user-specific configuration,
> pointing out global configuration as an alternative.
> 
> 2-xorg.conf came first, thus, familiarity with configuration via
> /etc/X11/xorg.conf*. Most of the time I need to use it anyway for things
> other than keyboard in Xorg. No need to fix what ain't broke.
> 
> 3-man page for /etc/default/keyboard is a redirect to the keyboard man page,
> which like most man pages I find thin on examples.
> 
> 4-aversion to that directory name. To me, defaults are things shipped by the
> distro provider. /etc/sysconfig/keyboard would make more sense for something
> globally managed by the admin, along with keeping shipped defaults in /usr.
> 
> Alternatives in Gnu/Linux can be a double-edged sword. :-)

:) Indeed.

Great to hear you have a (relatively ?) stable setup, and, thanks for
sharing of course :)

Myself, I never heard of /etc/default/keyboard until about a month
ago, and only ever did the /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d thing before that
(and it feels like just a year or so ago we were still doing X11.conf
or something similar... these young whippaschnappas, changing things
every month it seems... get used to the new change and BAM it's
changed agin' - when I wuz yur age, we just made do we did... we were
LUCKY to have a working keyboard ... sometimes had to solder serial
lines together just to make the Shift key work!)

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#187767

On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 01:11:18 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> David Wright composed on 2017-10-06 20:25 (UTC-0500):
> 
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 18:57:31 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >> Brian composed on 2017-10-06 23:31 (UTC+0100):
> ...
> >> > 'setxbdmap -option "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"' in ~/.xsession is less
> >> > typing and more user-friendly. 
> 
> >> 1-That was an "as-is" copy from Fedora on a multiboot system, much easier than
> >> typing in an ~/.xsession file that didn't exist. I have no idea whether the
> >> match or layout lines would be necessary in Debian.
> 
> >> 2-Keyword: "user-friendly". /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf is global
> >> configuration, vs. user-specific ~/.xsession.
> 
> > I don't understand why you want to do it this way. Debian unified
> > /etc/default/keyboard so that the values specified there are used
> > in both the VCs and X.
> 
> 1-I was responding to the sole thread focus on user-specific configuration,
> pointing out global configuration as an alternative.
> 
> 2-xorg.conf came first, thus, familiarity with configuration via
> /etc/X11/xorg.conf*. Most of the time I need to use it anyway for things
> other than keyboard in Xorg. No need to fix what ain't broke.
> 
> 3-man page for /etc/default/keyboard is a redirect to the keyboard man page,
> which like most man pages I find thin on examples.
> 
> 4-aversion to that directory name. To me, defaults are things shipped by the
> distro provider.

For many of the items in /etc/default, the provider can't set a
sensible default. keyboard is one of these as the provider can't
possibly know whether your keyboard layout is gb, for example.

> /etc/sysconfig/keyboard would make more sense for something
> globally managed by the admin,

Why not make a link to /etc/default then, and have done with it.

> along with keeping shipped defaults in /usr.

That's already the case, isn't it? One normally doesn't alter
files in /usr. For years, I had it mounted readonly.

Cheers,
David.

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#187655

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:37:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> 
> > for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
> > x server. :(
> 
> This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
> in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
> it.

I edit /etc/default/keyboard to read as follows (also, lv3 level 3
(& 4) shift rocks!):

XKBMODEL="microsoft4000"
XKBLAYOUT="libsh"
XKBVARIANT="basic"
XKBOPTIONS="lv3:lwin_switch,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
BACKSPACE="guess"

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#187657

On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 08:30:09 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:37:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > 
> > > for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
> > > x server. :(
> > 
> > This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
> > in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
> > it.
> 
> I edit /etc/default/keyboard to read as follows (also, lv3 level 3
> (& 4) shift rocks!):
> 
> XKBMODEL="microsoft4000"
> XKBLAYOUT="libsh"
> XKBVARIANT="basic"
> XKBOPTIONS="lv3:lwin_switch,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> BACKSPACE="guess"

A neat, simple edit of a basic file. But, by itself, insufficient to
resurrect ctrl+alt+backspace.

-- 
Brian.

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#187660

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:11:52PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 08:30:09 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:37:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > > 
> > > > for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
> > > > x server. :(
> > > 
> > > This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
> > > in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
> > > it.
> > 
> > I edit /etc/default/keyboard to read as follows (also, lv3 level 3
> > (& 4) shift rocks!):
> > 
> > XKBMODEL="microsoft4000"
> > XKBLAYOUT="libsh"
> > XKBVARIANT="basic"
> > XKBOPTIONS="lv3:lwin_switch,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> > BACKSPACE="guess"
> 
> A neat, simple edit of a basic file. But, by itself, insufficient to
> resurrect ctrl+alt+backspace.

Oh¡ Well that's good to know. I must have the required change (I'm
guessing your xorg.conf.d suggestion) somewhere else in that case, as
well as this.  Thanks for correcting the record.

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#187663

On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 09:24:01 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:11:52PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 08:30:09 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:37:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
> > > > > x server. :(
> > > > 
> > > > This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
> > > > in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
> > > > it.
> > > 
> > > I edit /etc/default/keyboard to read as follows (also, lv3 level 3
> > > (& 4) shift rocks!):
> > > 
> > > XKBMODEL="microsoft4000"
> > > XKBLAYOUT="libsh"
> > > XKBVARIANT="basic"
> > > XKBOPTIONS="lv3:lwin_switch,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> > > BACKSPACE="guess"
> > 
> > A neat, simple edit of a basic file. But, by itself, insufficient to
> > resurrect ctrl+alt+backspace.
> 
> Oh¡ Well that's good to know. I must have the required change (I'm
> guessing your xorg.conf.d suggestion) somewhere else in that case, as
> well as this.  Thanks for correcting the record.

I haven't really corrected anything. There is a fuller picture at

 https://pkg-xorg.alioth.debian.org/howto/configure-input.html

  When udev is used (on GNU/Linux, starting with squeeze), one
  has totell udev to reload input-related configuration:
  udevadm trigger --subsystem-match=input --action=change (that
  can be found in keyboard-configuration’s README.Debian file).

-- 
Brian.

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#187666

On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 23:54:36 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 09:24:01 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:11:52PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 08:30:09 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:37:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
> > > > > > x server. :(
> > > > > 
> > > > > This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
> > > > > in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
> > > > > it.
> > > > 
> > > > I edit /etc/default/keyboard to read as follows (also, lv3 level 3
> > > > (& 4) shift rocks!):
> > > > 
> > > > XKBMODEL="microsoft4000"
> > > > XKBLAYOUT="libsh"
> > > > XKBVARIANT="basic"
> > > > XKBOPTIONS="lv3:lwin_switch,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> > > > BACKSPACE="guess"
> > > 
> > > A neat, simple edit of a basic file. But, by itself, insufficient to
> > > resurrect ctrl+alt+backspace.
> > 
> > Oh¡ Well that's good to know. I must have the required change (I'm
> > guessing your xorg.conf.d suggestion) somewhere else in that case,

That's possible, but unlikely because you seem to be aware that
/etc/default/keyboard is the best location to set these parameters.
Let's hope the OP, a VC user, picks up on this.

> > as
> > well as this.  Thanks for correcting the record.
> 
> I haven't really corrected anything. There is a fuller picture at
> 
>  https://pkg-xorg.alioth.debian.org/howto/configure-input.html
> 
>   When udev is used (on GNU/Linux, starting with squeeze), one
>   has totell udev to reload input-related configuration:
>   udevadm trigger --subsystem-match=input --action=change (that
>   can be found in keyboard-configuration’s README.Debian file).

… and of course the change will have been made after your next boot.

Cheers,
David.

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#187686

On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:37:16PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 23:54:36 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> > On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 09:24:01 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:11:52PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 08:30:09 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:37:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
> > > > > > > x server. :(
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
> > > > > > in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I edit /etc/default/keyboard to read as follows (also, lv3 level 3
> > > > > (& 4) shift rocks!):
> > > > > 
> > > > > XKBMODEL="microsoft4000"
> > > > > XKBLAYOUT="libsh"
> > > > > XKBVARIANT="basic"
> > > > > XKBOPTIONS="lv3:lwin_switch,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> > > > > BACKSPACE="guess"
> > > > 
> > > > A neat, simple edit of a basic file. But, by itself, insufficient to
> > > > resurrect ctrl+alt+backspace.
> > > 
> > > Oh¡ Well that's good to know. I must have the required change (I'm
> > > guessing your xorg.conf.d suggestion) somewhere else in that case,
> 
> That's possible, but unlikely because you seem to be aware that
> /etc/default/keyboard is the best location to set these parameters.
> Let's hope the OP, a VC user, picks up on this.

Yes I too like to have console work as well as x/gui terms (which I
mostly live in TBH).

I've now done this over a dozen times in the last month, and
consistently, this works, to get the extra symbols I'm after - and
yes, the Ctrl-Alt-Bksp to terminate X, but, running this afterwards:

  sudo dpkg-reconfigure xkb-data keyboard-configuration

Perhaps this is the bit that some folks might have missed...

And finally, from a straight Linux console, I also run this:

  sudo setupcon

Voi la.


Now the funky bit is the line you see above in my
/etc/default/keyboard as follows:

  XKBLAYOUT="libsh"

which means “use custom keyboard layout file named as follows:
  /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/libsh
”

which file is a file I created by copying
/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/us

and modifying to taste - taste some juicy Unicode characters not
otherwise readily accessible, like love hearts ♥ for example :)

Happy frollicking,

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#187768

On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 22:14:41 (+1100), Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:37:16PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 23:54:36 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> > > On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 09:24:01 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 11:11:52PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > > On Sat 07 Oct 2017 at 08:30:09 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > On Fri, Oct 06, 2017 at 08:37:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > > > > On Fri 06 Oct 2017 at 21:19:28 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > for that matter, even "ctrl+alt+backspace" doesn't work to shutdown the
> > > > > > > > x server. :(
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > This disappeared from xorg many, many years ago. But it can be re-enabled
> > > > > > > in Debian. An XKBOPTIONS options is what you look for if you really want
> > > > > > > it.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I edit /etc/default/keyboard to read as follows (also, lv3 level 3
> > > > > > (& 4) shift rocks!):
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > XKBMODEL="microsoft4000"
> > > > > > XKBLAYOUT="libsh"
> > > > > > XKBVARIANT="basic"
> > > > > > XKBOPTIONS="lv3:lwin_switch,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> > > > > > BACKSPACE="guess"
> > > > > 
> > > > > A neat, simple edit of a basic file. But, by itself, insufficient to
> > > > > resurrect ctrl+alt+backspace.
> > > > 
> > > > Oh¡ Well that's good to know. I must have the required change (I'm
> > > > guessing your xorg.conf.d suggestion) somewhere else in that case,
> > 
> > That's possible, but unlikely because you seem to be aware that
> > /etc/default/keyboard is the best location to set these parameters.
> > Let's hope the OP, a VC user, picks up on this.
> 
> Yes I too like to have console work as well as x/gui terms (which I
> mostly live in TBH).
> 
> I've now done this over a dozen times in the last month, and
> consistently, this works, to get the extra symbols I'm after - and
> yes, the Ctrl-Alt-Bksp to terminate X, but, running this afterwards:
> 
>   sudo dpkg-reconfigure xkb-data keyboard-configuration
> 
> Perhaps this is the bit that some folks might have missed...
> 
> And finally, from a straight Linux console, I also run this:
> 
>   sudo setupcon
> 
> Voi la.

My own experience is that for immediate effect of changes in
/etc/default/keyboard, ctrl_alt_bksp needs you to type

# udevadm trigger --subsystem-match=input --action=change

but for the other options, like caps:none and all that gumph
in /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/xorg.lst,

# setupcon [-k]

will do the trick. However, neither is necessary after a reboot.

> Now the funky bit is the line you see above in my
> /etc/default/keyboard as follows:
> 
>   XKBLAYOUT="libsh"
> 
> which means “use custom keyboard layout file named as follows:
>   /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/libsh
> ”
> 
> which file is a file I created by copying
> /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/us
> 
> and modifying to taste - taste some juicy Unicode characters not
> otherwise readily accessible, like love hearts ♥ for example :)

I avoid having to copy those files by appending my changes to
/etc/console-setup/remap.inc and then running
dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration.
But I'm not making major changes like you, just some modifications
to make the VCs behave like X, and eliminating the annoyance when
you catch your finger or thumb on Alt as you hit the space bar.

# Ctrl-arrow keys need to send the same codes as in X/xterm.
Control keycode 105 = F51
string F51 = "\033[1;5D"
Control keycode 106 = F52
string F52 = "\033[1;5C"
Control keycode 108 = F53
string F53 = "\033[1;5B"
Control keycode 103 = F54
string F54 = "\033[1;5A"

# Alt-space may as well produce a space rather than
# nul Meta_nul or Meta_space
alt keycode 57 = F41
string F41 = " "

Most of the other changes I make are actually additions to
the   Ctrl-X 8   mechanism in emacs, like  ^X 8 ~ q   for ♪
and so on, just the ones I need; and I don't usually need
those sorts of chars on the command line, only when editing.

Cheers,
David.

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#187785

On Sun, Oct 08, 2017 at 11:11:26PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> I avoid having to copy those files by appending my changes to
> /etc/console-setup/remap.inc and then running
> dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration.
> But I'm not making major changes like you, just some modifications
> to make the VCs behave like X, and eliminating the annoyance when
> you catch your finger or thumb on Alt as you hit the space bar.
> 
> # Ctrl-arrow keys need to send the same codes as in X/xterm.
> Control keycode 105 = F51
> string F51 = "\033[1;5D"
> Control keycode 106 = F52
> string F52 = "\033[1;5C"
> Control keycode 108 = F53
> string F53 = "\033[1;5B"
> Control keycode 103 = F54
> string F54 = "\033[1;5A"
> 
> # Alt-space may as well produce a space rather than
> # nul Meta_nul or Meta_space
> alt keycode 57 = F41
> string F41 = " "

So this is the right® way to have a custom keyboard layout in Debian? I
always edited the files in /usr/share/X11/xkb but everytime xkb-data is
updated they are silently overwritten.
How do I get something like:
key <AB10> { [ slash, underscore, minus ] };

Do you have a good link to share?

Thanks

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