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Groups > linux.debian.user > #186568 > unrolled thread

Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system

Started byUrs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de>
First post2017-09-07 17:20 +0200
Last post2017-09-08 17:20 +0200
Articles 6 — 5 participants

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  Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2017-09-07 17:20 +0200
    Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-09-07 17:30 +0200
      Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2017-09-07 18:20 +0200
    Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2017-09-07 20:50 +0200
    Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-09-07 22:20 +0200
      Re: Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2017-09-08 17:20 +0200

#186568 — Upgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system

FromUrs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de>
Date2017-09-07 17:20 +0200
SubjectUpgrade from jessie to strech wants to bloat by system
Message-ID<un6L0-1Qb-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
After fully updating my jessie system using

        aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade

I edited sources.list to dist-upgrade to strech.  A folloing aptitude
upgrade wants to install additional 1.5 GB on my system which is
currently ~5 GB, i.e. a 30% increase:

  # df -h / /usr
  Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
  /dev/dm-0       2.0G  1.8G  135M  93% /
  /dev/dm-2       7.8G  4.4G  3.0G  60% /usr
  # du -hs /root
  1.4G    /root
  # aptitude upgrade
  Resolving dependencies...
  ...
  The following NEW packages will be installed:
    btrfs-progs{a} clang-3.8{a} cpp-6{a} cpp-6-doc{a} dh-autoreconf{a}
    ...
  The following packages will be REMOVED:
    cpp-4.9-doc{u} docutils-common{u} docutils-doc{u} g++-4.9{u} gir1.2-vte-2.90{u}
    ...
  The following packages will be upgraded:
    acct acl acpi acpi-support-base acpid adduser adwaita-icon-theme apache2
    ...
  1151 packages upgraded, 297 newly installed, 128 to remove and 82 not upgraded.
  Need to get 1843 MB of archives. After unpacking 1537 MB will be used.
  Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]

I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old
versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically
installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others.  For
example

  # aptitude search "~i clang"
  i   clang                     - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
  i A clang-3.5                 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
  i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development package
  i A libclang1-3.5             - C interface to the clang library
    
and aptitude full-upgrade will install clang-3.8 but not remove
clang-3.5.  But my suspicion is that even when I manually remove all
these old packages, the installation is still unreasonably larger than
it is currently.

urs

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#186569

FromDejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com>
Date2017-09-07 17:30 +0200
Message-ID<un6UG-1Tf-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#186568
On 07-09-17, Urs Thuermann wrote:
> After fully updating my jessie system using
> 
>         aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade
> 
> I edited sources.list to dist-upgrade to strech.  A folloing aptitude
> upgrade wants to install additional 1.5 GB on my system which is
> currently ~5 GB, i.e. a 30% increase:
> 
>   # df -h / /usr
>   Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>   /dev/dm-0       2.0G  1.8G  135M  93% /
>   /dev/dm-2       7.8G  4.4G  3.0G  60% /usr
>   # du -hs /root
>   1.4G    /root
>   # aptitude upgrade
>   Resolving dependencies...
>   ...
>   The following NEW packages will be installed:
>     btrfs-progs{a} clang-3.8{a} cpp-6{a} cpp-6-doc{a} dh-autoreconf{a}
>     ...
>   The following packages will be REMOVED:
>     cpp-4.9-doc{u} docutils-common{u} docutils-doc{u} g++-4.9{u} gir1.2-vte-2.90{u}
>     ...
>   The following packages will be upgraded:
>     acct acl acpi acpi-support-base acpid adduser adwaita-icon-theme apache2
>     ...
>   1151 packages upgraded, 297 newly installed, 128 to remove and 82 not upgraded.
>   Need to get 1843 MB of archives. After unpacking 1537 MB will be used.
>   Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]
> 
> I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old
> versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically
> installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others.  For
> example
> 
>   # aptitude search "~i clang"
>   i   clang                     - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A clang-3.5                 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development package
>   i A libclang1-3.5             - C interface to the clang library
>     
> and aptitude full-upgrade will install clang-3.8 but not remove
> clang-3.5.  But my suspicion is that even when I manually remove all
> these old packages, the installation is still unreasonably larger than
> it is currently.
> 
> urs
> 

Can you check what happens if you use apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
followed by apt-get dist-upgrade? Aptitude is not really best tool for
upgrades between distribution releases.

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#186572

FromUrs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de>
Date2017-09-07 18:20 +0200
Message-ID<un7H3-2qi-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#186569
Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> writes:

> Can you check what happens if you use apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
> followed by apt-get dist-upgrade? Aptitude is not really best tool for
> upgrades between distribution releases.

I changed to aptitude quite some time ago, because it seems to better
remove unused automatically installed packages, although it still does
not work quite satisfactory.

OK, I hope I find some time tonight, to backup /, /usr, and /var and
then do a dist-upgrade with apt-get.  But it seems not be very
different:

    # apt-get --auto-remove dist-upgrade
    ...
    1215 upgraded, 412 newly installed, 161 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
    Need to get 1930 MB of archives.
    After this operation, 1560 MB of additional disk space will be used.
    E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.

This command also installs e.g. clang-3.8 but does not remove the
automatically installed clang-3.5.

urs

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#186580

FromSven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de>
Date2017-09-07 20:50 +0200
Message-ID<una2e-3SJ-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#186568
On 2017-09-07 17:07 +0200, Urs Thuermann wrote:

> After fully updating my jessie system using
>
>         aptitude update; aptitude full-upgrade
>
> I edited sources.list to dist-upgrade to strech.  A folloing aptitude
> upgrade wants to install additional 1.5 GB on my system which is
> currently ~5 GB, i.e. a 30% increase:
>
>   # df -h / /usr
>   Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>   /dev/dm-0       2.0G  1.8G  135M  93% /
>   /dev/dm-2       7.8G  4.4G  3.0G  60% /usr
>   # du -hs /root
>   1.4G    /root
>   # aptitude upgrade
>   Resolving dependencies...
>   ...
>   The following NEW packages will be installed:
>     btrfs-progs{a} clang-3.8{a} cpp-6{a} cpp-6-doc{a} dh-autoreconf{a}
>     ...
>   The following packages will be REMOVED:
>     cpp-4.9-doc{u} docutils-common{u} docutils-doc{u} g++-4.9{u} gir1.2-vte-2.90{u}
>     ...
>   The following packages will be upgraded:
>     acct acl acpi acpi-support-base acpid adduser adwaita-icon-theme apache2
>     ...
>   1151 packages upgraded, 297 newly installed, 128 to remove and 82 not upgraded.
>   Need to get 1843 MB of archives. After unpacking 1537 MB will be used.
>   Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]
>
> I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old
> versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically
> installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others.  For
> example
>
>   # aptitude search "~i clang"
>   i   clang                     - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A clang-3.5                 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development package
>   i A libclang1-3.5             - C interface to the clang library
>     
> and aptitude full-upgrade will install clang-3.8 but not remove
> clang-3.5.

This happens because clang-3.5 and gcc-4.9 provide the c-compiler
virtual package which is a dependency/recommendation of quite a few
packages (usually via an alternative: gcc | c-compiler).  Apt does not
autoremove such packages since they are not unused.  This was once
convincingly explained to me by aptitude's creator[1].

> But my suspicion is that even when I manually remove all
> these old packages, the installation is still unreasonably larger than
> it is currently.

Quite possibly.  The -Z and -D flags can help you to identify the
biggest offenders and why they are pulled in.

Cheers,
       Sven


1. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=477166#16

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#186584

FromBen Finney <bignose@debian.org>
Date2017-09-07 22:20 +0200
Message-ID<unbrj-50W-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#186568
Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> writes:

> I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old
> versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically
> installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others.  For
> example
>
>   # aptitude search "~i clang"
>   i   clang                     - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A clang-3.5                 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM based)
>   i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development package
>   i A libclang1-3.5             - C interface to the clang library

That shows the ‘clang’ package is *not* marked auto-installed. That is,
the APT database shows it was manually requested, and so will never be
auto-removed.

-- 
 \     “… a voice said reassuringly: cheer up, things could get worse. |
  `\    So I cheered up and, sure enough, things got worse.” —James C. |
_o__)                                               Hagerty, 1909–1981 |
Ben Finney

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#186609

FromCindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com>
Date2017-09-08 17:20 +0200
Message-ID<untey-nf-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#186584
On 9/7/17, Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> wrote:
> Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> writes:
>
>> I see that some new versions of packages are installed without the old
>> versions being removed, although they are marked as automatically
>> installed, e.g. Linux kernel, clang, llvm, and some others.  For
>> example
>>
>>   # aptitude search "~i clang"
>>   i   clang                     - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM
>> based)
>>   i A clang-3.5                 - C, C++ and Objective-C compiler (LLVM
>> based)
>>   i A libclang-common-3.5-dev   - clang library - Common development
>> package
>>   i A libclang1-3.5             - C interface to the clang library
>
> That shows the ‘clang’ package is *not* marked auto-installed. That is,
> the APT database shows it was manually requested, and so will never be
> auto-removed.


Oh, oh, ohhhh.. Quite a while back I observed on here that apt-get
tells me packages are now marked as manually installed if I
(accidentally) do an "apt-get install" command on a package that turns
out to already be current. That happened to me regularly when I was
having to break my upgrades into small sized chunks while doing them
every day (k/t small town dialup access).

I'd *almost* be willing to bet that your "the APT database shows it
was manually requested, and so will never be auto-removed" comes into
play with respect to that apt-get advisement. It would be interesting
to test it if that actually does... :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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