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Re: security issues

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  Re: security issues Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-08-26 10:20 +0200
    Re: security issues Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-26 10:30 +0200
    Re: security issues Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-26 13:50 +0200
      Re: security issues Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-26 21:00 +0200
        Re: security issues Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-26 21:30 +0200
          Re: security issues Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-26 21:50 +0200
          Re: security issues Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-26 21:50 +0200
            Re: security issues Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-26 22:40 +0200
              Re: security issues Mike McClain <mike.junk.46@att.net> - 2017-08-27 18:50 +0200
                Re: security issues Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-28 00:30 +0200

#185971 — Re: security issues

On 26-08-17, R Calleja wrote:
> Buenos dias, soy usuario de debian 8.9 desde hace 2 años.
> Tengo problemas de seguridad que me obligan a reinstalar el sistema a
> menudo, una vez al año.
> He leido documentos y ayuda para mejorar la seguridad.
> Pero no soy un usuario con conocimientos avanzados de sistemas.
> Mi objetivo es conseguir una estacion de trabajo segura .
> He conocido herramientas como:
> Lynis, openval, nessus, grsecurity,apparmor, selinux, etc
> Si puede alguien con conocimientos de seguridad  ayudarme. O hay alguna
> empresa que de soporte.
> 
> Muchas gracias, Roberto
> 
> 
> Good afternoon, I have been debian 8.9 user for 2 years.
> I have security issues that force me to reinstall the system often, once a year.

What security issues?

> I have read documents and help to improve security.

What documents?

> But I am not a user with advanced systems knowledge.

That is not problem, you can find lots of tutorials and documents
around.

> My goal is to get a safe work station.
> I have known tools like:
> Lynis, openval, nessus, grsecurity, apparmor, selinux, etc.

Apparmor and selinux do not go together, use just apparmor because it is
easier to set up and easier not to mess up. Selinux in theory can
provide you with more protection, but in practical use you will not see
it. Lynis is probably too much for you. Openval I do not know, nessus I
did not use. Grsecurity is, according to Linus Torvald:

"

    Don't bother with grsecurity.

    Their approach has always been "we don't care if we break
    anything, we'll just claim it's because we're extra secure".

    The thing is a joke, and they are clowns. When they started
    talking about people taking advantage of them, I stopped
    trying to be polite about their bullshit.

    Their patches are pure garbage.

    Linus
"
> If anyone with safety knowledge can help me. Or is there any support company.
> 
> Thank you very much, Roberto

For someone who knows little, you are sure installing too much things.
Here are some general advices, but do not take this for granted, it is
based on personal opinion after all, and I'm not security expert, though
I did read for few of those have to say about security in linux.

1. Firewall. If you are connected to net and use some services you
really want it. Choose simple one, like gufw. That is front end for ufw
( uncomplicated firewall ) and will serve your needs well. If you want
something more secure, but really more complicated, you will have to
learn iptables.

2. Always keep your system updated with latest security patches. So, do
your daily routine of apt-get update && apt-get upgrade. Even apt-get
dist-upgrade, in case of need.

3. apparmor can help to mitigate risks of some exploits and is easier to
setup than selinux.

4. Use some tools that can help you detect potential rootkits. So, learn
how to use rkhunter, chkrootkit and some of intrusion detection tools,
like aide, or tripwire. Also some network based intrusion detection
tools like Snort, or suricata.

5. If you use ssh, disable root login, disable logging with passwords,
use pair of keys. When we are at root account, if someone else can
physically access your comp, you should disable it too and use sudo. But
it is not necessary and will not increase your security as standalone
solution in cases where someone can poke your comp freely. For further
reading about restricting root account: https://www.centos.org/docs/5/html/5.1/Deployment_Guide/s2-wstation-privileges-noroot.html

6. Just in case that you are connected to some windows based machines,
you can install and use clamav. But it will not protect you personally,
will just make you better neighbour.

7. Oh, yes, secure password is good thing to have too. Do not use your
name, your family names, your dog name, nor anything that can be
connected to you, or is susceptible to dictionary attacks. You can
install some tool like john the riper to check if your password is weak.

8. Encrypt your data and use backups.

9. Do a lot of reading about all that, practice a bit and do not put
high hopes in paying someone to protect you. If you do not know what are
you doing, no one can babysit your 24 hours a day.

10. I'm sure that there is more and that some people around can tell
you more, but complete guide to security is hard to get on this list, or
in some forums. There are some books around about that subject, written
by people that know lots and can presented better than I can. Again, it
requires lots of reading, research and practicing. And no one can do it
for you. If you want to be more secure, than you must get "advanced
knowledge".

Hope that this can help you a bit.

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#185972

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Le nonidi 9 fructidor, an CCXXV, Dejan Jocic a écrit :
> 10. I'm sure that there is more

0. Think about against what risks you want to protect yourself.

Security is always a compromise with convenience. The only absolute
security is when you do nothing with no computer at all, but that is not
what you want.

Think about house keys: leaving a double under the doormat is really
insecure, but it is a life saver when you lose your own; leaving them to
a neighbour is somewhat safer, but less convenient, etc.

A very important lesson to learn is that security is bounded by the
weakest link, including non-computer stuff.

You may have your 65536-bits RSA key protected by a passphrase that is
an epic poem, stored on a physical dongle with built-in fingerprint and
ear-print reader, if someone can attack you with a knife and force you
to give it, you might as well have used "swordfish" as a password.

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#185979

On Saturday 26 August 2017 04:13:38 Dejan Jocic wrote:

> On 26-08-17, R Calleja wrote:
> > Buenos dias, soy usuario de debian 8.9 desde hace 2 años.
> > Tengo problemas de seguridad que me obligan a reinstalar el sistema
> > a menudo, una vez al año.
> > He leido documentos y ayuda para mejorar la seguridad.
> > Pero no soy un usuario con conocimientos avanzados de sistemas.
> > Mi objetivo es conseguir una estacion de trabajo segura .
> > He conocido herramientas como:
> > Lynis, openval, nessus, grsecurity,apparmor, selinux, etc
> > Si puede alguien con conocimientos de seguridad  ayudarme. O hay
> > alguna empresa que de soporte.
> >
> > Muchas gracias, Roberto
> >
> >
> > Good afternoon, I have been debian 8.9 user for 2 years.
> > I have security issues that force me to reinstall the system often,
> > once a year.
>
> What security issues?
>
> > I have read documents and help to improve security.
>
> What documents?
>
> > But I am not a user with advanced systems knowledge.
>
> That is not problem, you can find lots of tutorials and documents
> around.
>
> > My goal is to get a safe work station.
> > I have known tools like:
> > Lynis, openval, nessus, grsecurity, apparmor, selinux, etc.
>
> Apparmor and selinux do not go together, use just apparmor because it
> is easier to set up and easier not to mess up. Selinux in theory can
> provide you with more protection, but in practical use you will not
> see it. Lynis is probably too much for you. Openval I do not know,
> nessus I did not use. Grsecurity is, according to Linus Torvald:
>
> "
>
>     Don't bother with grsecurity.
>
>     Their approach has always been "we don't care if we break
>     anything, we'll just claim it's because we're extra secure".
>
>     The thing is a joke, and they are clowns. When they started
>     talking about people taking advantage of them, I stopped
>     trying to be polite about their bullshit.
>
>     Their patches are pure garbage.
>
>     Linus
> "
>
> > If anyone with safety knowledge can help me. Or is there any support
> > company.
> >
> > Thank you very much, Roberto
>
> For someone who knows little, you are sure installing too much things.
> Here are some general advices, but do not take this for granted, it is
> based on personal opinion after all, and I'm not security expert,
> though I did read for few of those have to say about security in
> linux.
>
> 1. Firewall. If you are connected to net and use some services you
> really want it. Choose simple one, like gufw. That is front end for
> ufw ( uncomplicated firewall ) and will serve your needs well. If you
> want something more secure, but really more complicated, you will have
> to learn iptables.

If the security being worried about is external, coming in and attacking  
you from the internet, then I would recommend getting an aftermarket 
router with enough flashable memory to support reprogramming it with 
dd-wrt. I don't worry about local security here as we're an older couple 
and the wife is not computer litterate, so I am the only user.  I don't 
install any of the firewall type stuff, dd-wrt in the router is the best 
guard dog. I've been running some form of it for 15 or more years, and 
have not been breached.

OTOH, if other family members are able to access your machine, then it 
may be that apparmor needs to be installed & setup.

> 2. Always keep your system updated with latest security patches. So,
> do your daily routine of apt-get update && apt-get upgrade. Even
> apt-get dist-upgrade, in case of need.

Excellent advice.

> 3. apparmor can help to mitigate risks of some exploits and is easier
> to setup than selinux.
>
> 4. Use some tools that can help you detect potential rootkits. So,
> learn how to use rkhunter, chkrootkit and some of intrusion detection
> tools, like aide, or tripwire. Also some network based intrusion
> detection tools like Snort, or suricata.
>
> 5. If you use ssh, disable root login, disable logging with passwords,
> use pair of keys. When we are at root account, if someone else can
> physically access your comp, you should disable it too and use sudo.
> But it is not necessary and will not increase your security as
> standalone solution in cases where someone can poke your comp freely.
> For further reading about restricting root account:
> https://www.centos.org/docs/5/html/5.1/Deployment_Guide/s2-wstation-pr
>ivileges-noroot.html
>
> 6. Just in case that you are connected to some windows based machines,
> you can install and use clamav. But it will not protect you
> personally, will just make you better neighbour.
>
> 7. Oh, yes, secure password is good thing to have too. Do not use your
> name, your family names, your dog name, nor anything that can be
> connected to you, or is susceptible to dictionary attacks. You can
> install some tool like john the riper to check if your password is
> weak.
>
> 8. Encrypt your data and use backups.
>
> 9. Do a lot of reading about all that, practice a bit and do not put
> high hopes in paying someone to protect you. If you do not know what
> are you doing, no one can babysit your 24 hours a day.
>
> 10. I'm sure that there is more and that some people around can tell
> you more, but complete guide to security is hard to get on this list,
> or in some forums. There are some books around about that subject,
> written by people that know lots and can presented better than I can.
> Again, it requires lots of reading, research and practicing. And no
> one can do it for you. If you want to be more secure, than you must
> get "advanced knowledge".

+10

> Hope that this can help you a bit.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#185997

On Sat 26 Aug 2017 at 07:40:09 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 26 August 2017 04:13:38 Dejan Jocic wrote:
> 
> > On 26-08-17, R Calleja wrote:
> > > Buenos dias, soy usuario de debian 8.9 desde hace 2 años.
> > > Tengo problemas de seguridad que me obligan a reinstalar el sistema
> > > a menudo, una vez al año.
> > > He leido documentos y ayuda para mejorar la seguridad.
> > > Pero no soy un usuario con conocimientos avanzados de sistemas.
> > > Mi objetivo es conseguir una estacion de trabajo segura .
> > > He conocido herramientas como:
> > > Lynis, openval, nessus, grsecurity,apparmor, selinux, etc
> > > Si puede alguien con conocimientos de seguridad  ayudarme. O hay
> > > alguna empresa que de soporte.
> > >
> > > Muchas gracias, Roberto
> > >
> > >
> > > Good afternoon, I have been debian 8.9 user for 2 years.
> > > I have security issues that force me to reinstall the system often,
> > > once a year.
> >
> > What security issues?
> >
> > > I have read documents and help to improve security.
> >
> > What documents?
> >
> > > But I am not a user with advanced systems knowledge.
> >
> > That is not problem, you can find lots of tutorials and documents
> > around.
> >
> > > My goal is to get a safe work station.
> > > I have known tools like:
> > > Lynis, openval, nessus, grsecurity, apparmor, selinux, etc.
> >
> > Apparmor and selinux do not go together, use just apparmor because it
> > is easier to set up and easier not to mess up. Selinux in theory can
> > provide you with more protection, but in practical use you will not
> > see it. Lynis is probably too much for you. Openval I do not know,
> > nessus I did not use. Grsecurity is, according to Linus Torvald:
> >
> > "
> >
> >     Don't bother with grsecurity.
> >
> >     Their approach has always been "we don't care if we break
> >     anything, we'll just claim it's because we're extra secure".
> >
> >     The thing is a joke, and they are clowns. When they started
> >     talking about people taking advantage of them, I stopped
> >     trying to be polite about their bullshit.
> >
> >     Their patches are pure garbage.
> >
> >     Linus
> > "
> >
> > > If anyone with safety knowledge can help me. Or is there any support
> > > company.
> > >
> > > Thank you very much, Roberto
> >
> > For someone who knows little, you are sure installing too much things.
> > Here are some general advices, but do not take this for granted, it is
> > based on personal opinion after all, and I'm not security expert,
> > though I did read for few of those have to say about security in
> > linux.
> >
> > 1. Firewall. If you are connected to net and use some services you
> > really want it. Choose simple one, like gufw. That is front end for
> > ufw ( uncomplicated firewall ) and will serve your needs well. If you
> > want something more secure, but really more complicated, you will have
> > to learn iptables.
> 
> If the security being worried about is external, coming in and attacking  
> you from the internet, then I would recommend getting an aftermarket 
> router with enough flashable memory to support reprogramming it with 
> dd-wrt. I don't worry about local security here as we're an older couple 
> and the wife is not computer litterate, so I am the only user.  I don't 

That's what you think! But while you are slumbering, she is emailing
friends and talking with Donald on Twitter. Never underestimate a woman's
ability to manipulate a communication medium.

> install any of the firewall type stuff, dd-wrt in the router is the best 
> guard dog. I've been running some form of it for 15 or more years, and 
> have not been breached.

Isn't dd-wrt only suitable for particular routers?

> OTOH, if other family members are able to access your machine, then it 
> may be that apparmor needs to be installed & setup.

Not really. But, if it is to your taste, go ahead,

-- 
Brian.

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#186000

On Saturday 26 August 2017 14:51:41 Brian wrote:

> On Sat 26 Aug 2017 at 07:40:09 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 26 August 2017 04:13:38 Dejan Jocic wrote:
> > > On 26-08-17, R Calleja wrote:
> > > > Buenos dias, soy usuario de debian 8.9 desde hace 2 años.
> > > > Tengo problemas de seguridad que me obligan a reinstalar el
> > > > sistema a menudo, una vez al año.
> > > > He leido documentos y ayuda para mejorar la seguridad.
> > > > Pero no soy un usuario con conocimientos avanzados de sistemas.
> > > > Mi objetivo es conseguir una estacion de trabajo segura .
> > > > He conocido herramientas como:
> > > > Lynis, openval, nessus, grsecurity,apparmor, selinux, etc
> > > > Si puede alguien con conocimientos de seguridad  ayudarme. O hay
> > > > alguna empresa que de soporte.
> > > >
> > > > Muchas gracias, Roberto
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Good afternoon, I have been debian 8.9 user for 2 years.
> > > > I have security issues that force me to reinstall the system
> > > > often, once a year.
> > >
> > > What security issues?
> > >
> > > > I have read documents and help to improve security.
> > >
> > > What documents?
> > >
> > > > But I am not a user with advanced systems knowledge.
> > >
> > > That is not problem, you can find lots of tutorials and documents
> > > around.
> > >
> > > > My goal is to get a safe work station.
> > > > I have known tools like:
> > > > Lynis, openval, nessus, grsecurity, apparmor, selinux, etc.
> > >
> > > Apparmor and selinux do not go together, use just apparmor because
> > > it is easier to set up and easier not to mess up. Selinux in
> > > theory can provide you with more protection, but in practical use
> > > you will not see it. Lynis is probably too much for you. Openval I
> > > do not know, nessus I did not use. Grsecurity is, according to
> > > Linus Torvald:
> > >
> > > "
> > >
> > >     Don't bother with grsecurity.
> > >
> > >     Their approach has always been "we don't care if we break
> > >     anything, we'll just claim it's because we're extra secure".
> > >
> > >     The thing is a joke, and they are clowns. When they started
> > >     talking about people taking advantage of them, I stopped
> > >     trying to be polite about their bullshit.
> > >
> > >     Their patches are pure garbage.
> > >
> > >     Linus
> > > "
> > >
> > > > If anyone with safety knowledge can help me. Or is there any
> > > > support company.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much, Roberto
> > >
> > > For someone who knows little, you are sure installing too much
> > > things. Here are some general advices, but do not take this for
> > > granted, it is based on personal opinion after all, and I'm not
> > > security expert, though I did read for few of those have to say
> > > about security in linux.
> > >
> > > 1. Firewall. If you are connected to net and use some services you
> > > really want it. Choose simple one, like gufw. That is front end
> > > for ufw ( uncomplicated firewall ) and will serve your needs well.
> > > If you want something more secure, but really more complicated,
> > > you will have to learn iptables.
> >
> > If the security being worried about is external, coming in and
> > attacking you from the internet, then I would recommend getting an
> > aftermarket router with enough flashable memory to support
> > reprogramming it with dd-wrt. I don't worry about local security
> > here as we're an older couple and the wife is not computer
> > litterate, so I am the only user.  I don't
>
> That's what you think! But while you are slumbering, she is emailing
> friends and talking with Donald on Twitter. Never underestimate a
> woman's ability to manipulate a communication medium.
>
Ahh, no.  This one is 77 yo, dying of COPD slowly but surely.  She also 
fell and broke a hip back in February, which was replaced, and what 
little moving around is usually with e walker assist, and just to the 
potty chair 10 feet from the recliner she has taken up residence in, and 
with an oxy hose hanging on her ears, probably sleeps 12-16 hours a day.  
Not at all computer litterate. Ever.

A retired elementary school music teacher, she was once forced to use an 
elderly PB 286 computer with 2 floppy disks, running dos3.2, to do her 
report cards.  That disaster was not, to my knowledge, repeated.  One of 
the reasons she took her 34 years of credit for teaching and retired in 
the late 90's.

I am doing all the housekeeping and cooking since February. And I do take 
time out for "my stuff" like these mailing lists, and converting elderly 
machine tools, mills and lathes, to 10x the original precision with 
linuxcnc, new drive screws and me making at least half the hardware to 
make the conversions.  And I just wrote the gcodes to put a new barrel 
in old meat in the pot, chambered for 6.5 Creedmoor.  The barrels in it 
from the early '60's up till now have all been for the 30-06 Ackley 
Improved, but its kick was beginning to beat the old man up. So I do 
this stuff to keep me out of the bars.  Seems to be working fairly 
well... ;-)  And I make some furniture from time to time.

> > install any of the firewall type stuff, dd-wrt in the router is the
> > best guard dog. I've been running some form of it for 15 or more
> > years, and have not been breached.
>
> Isn't dd-wrt only suitable for particular routers?
>
> > OTOH, if other family members are able to access your machine, then
> > it may be that apparmor needs to be installed & setup.
>
> Not really. But, if it is to your taste, go ahead,


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#186001

On Saturday 26 August 2017 15:25:53 Gene Heskett wrote:

> > > install any of the firewall type stuff, dd-wrt in the router is
> > > the best guard dog. I've been running some form of it for 15 or
> > > more years, and have not been breached.
> >
> > Isn't dd-wrt only suitable for particular routers?


if it has at least 4G of flash, brainslayer probably has a build for it.  
Do a search using the model # from yours to find out if it will work for 
you. Most routers above the 65 USD price break can probably be flashed.

I'm useing a Buffalo NetFinity, $70+ ship, came with dd-wrt but the 
branding video image covered some functions I needed, so I installed it 
from the dd-wrt site, and with some minor tweaking, and one reflash, its 
been sitting on the other side of the big printer for about 8 years now.  
The only traffic that comes in unannounced is to my web page, which I 
have in a permissions sandbox on this machine.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#186002

[Lots of snipping]

On Sat 26 Aug 2017 at 15:25:53 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 26 August 2017 14:51:41 Brian wrote:
> 
> > That's what you think! But while you are slumbering, she is emailing
> > friends and talking with Donald on Twitter. Never underestimate a
> > woman's ability to manipulate a communication medium.
> >
> Ahh, no.  This one is 77 yo, dying of COPD slowly but surely.  She also 
> fell and broke a hip back in February, which was replaced, and what 
> little moving around is usually with e walker assist, and just to the 
> potty chair 10 feet from the recliner she has taken up residence in, and 
> with an oxy hose hanging on her ears, probably sleeps 12-16 hours a day.  
> Not at all computer litterate. Ever.
> 
> A retired elementary school music teacher, she was once forced to use an 
> elderly PB 286 computer with 2 floppy disks, running dos3.2, to do her 
> report cards.  That disaster was not, to my knowledge, repeated.  One of 
> the reasons she took her 34 years of credit for teaching and retired in 
> the late 90's.
> 
> I am doing all the housekeeping and cooking since February. And I do take 
> time out for "my stuff" like these mailing lists, and converting elderly 
> machine tools, mills and lathes, to 10x the original precision with 
> linuxcnc, new drive screws and me making at least half the hardware to 
> make the conversions.  And I just wrote the gcodes to put a new barrel 
> in old meat in the pot, chambered for 6.5 Creedmoor.  The barrels in it 
> from the early '60's up till now have all been for the 30-06 Ackley 
> Improved, but its kick was beginning to beat the old man up. So I do 
> this stuff to keep me out of the bars.  Seems to be working fairly 
> well... ;-)  And I make some furniture from time to time.
 
You and your wife have my sympathy and best wishes, My response was
intended to be light-hearted, but, sometimes, hitting the mark is wildly
off.

Regards,

Brian.

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#186003

On Saturday 26 August 2017 15:43:40 Brian wrote:

> [Lots of snipping]
>
> On Sat 26 Aug 2017 at 15:25:53 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 26 August 2017 14:51:41 Brian wrote:
> > > That's what you think! But while you are slumbering, she is
> > > emailing friends and talking with Donald on Twitter. Never
> > > underestimate a woman's ability to manipulate a communication
> > > medium.
> >
> > Ahh, no.  This one is 77 yo, dying of COPD slowly but surely.  She
> > also fell and broke a hip back in February, which was replaced, and
> > what little moving around is usually with e walker assist, and just
> > to the potty chair 10 feet from the recliner she has taken up
> > residence in, and with an oxy hose hanging on her ears, probably
> > sleeps 12-16 hours a day. Not at all computer litterate. Ever.
> >
> > A retired elementary school music teacher, she was once forced to
> > use an elderly PB 286 computer with 2 floppy disks, running dos3.2,
> > to do her report cards.  That disaster was not, to my knowledge,
> > repeated.  One of the reasons she took her 34 years of credit for
> > teaching and retired in the late 90's.
> >
> > I am doing all the housekeeping and cooking since February. And I do
> > take time out for "my stuff" like these mailing lists, and
> > converting elderly machine tools, mills and lathes, to 10x the
> > original precision with linuxcnc, new drive screws and me making at
> > least half the hardware to make the conversions.  And I just wrote
> > the gcodes to put a new barrel in old meat in the pot, chambered for
> > 6.5 Creedmoor.  The barrels in it from the early '60's up till now
> > have all been for the 30-06 Ackley Improved, but its kick was
> > beginning to beat the old man up. So I do this stuff to keep me out
> > of the bars.  Seems to be working fairly well... ;-)  And I make
> > some furniture from time to time.
>
> You and your wife have my sympathy and best wishes, My response was
> intended to be light-hearted, but, sometimes, hitting the mark is
> wildly off.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian.

NP Brian, you had no first hand idea as to where I was coming from. And I 
wasn't looking for sympathy, just describing my situation & why I make 
recommendations that don't fit a busy, multiuser site at all well.  I 
have no other users here except me.  If I muck it up, I'm the scapegoat, 
complete with the chin whiskers. :)

I have had the ultimate revenge on those who were enemies at one time, 
I've outlived the turkeys without doing anything to hasten their 
demise. ;-) 

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#186026

On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 04:35:21PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> I have had the ultimate revenge on those who were enemies at one time,
> I've outlived the turkeys without doing anything to hasten their
> demise. ;-)
>

I thought that was worthy of being a tagline.
Hope you don't mind.
Mike
--
You can't say that civilization don't advance,
  for in every war they kill you in a new way.
    - Will Rogers

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#186046

On Sunday 27 August 2017 12:22:30 Mike McClain wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 04:35:21PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I have had the ultimate revenge on those who were enemies at one
> > time, I've outlived the turkeys without doing anything to hasten
> > their demise. ;-)
>
> I thought that was worthy of being a tagline.
> Hope you don't mind.
> Mike

Help yourself Mike. But I am far from the first to say that in print. :)
> --
> You can't say that civilization don't advance,
>   for in every war they kill you in a new way.
>     - Will Rogers


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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