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Groups > linux.debian.user > #185161 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-08-14 11:50 +0200 |
| Last post | 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 144 — 27 participants |
Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user
no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 11:50 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-14 13:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 13:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-14 13:40 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 13:50 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 18:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 23:20 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 14:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 15:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-14 15:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 15:50 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-14 16:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-14 16:40 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 18:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 17:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 18:20 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 12:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 22:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-19 23:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 12:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 14:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 15:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 15:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-15 16:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 16:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 19:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:30 +0200
Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 10:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 11:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-16 12:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-16 14:30 +0200
Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 16:20 +0200
Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-16 16:40 +0200
Re: Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 17:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 22:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-08-15 22:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 04:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 09:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 16:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 17:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 04:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-15 16:40 +0200
No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-19 14:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 17:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-08-19 11:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 15:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 17:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 20:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 02:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 16:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Ansgar Burchardt <ansgar@debian.org> - 2017-08-20 12:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-21 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 16:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-20 14:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-20 14:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-20 17:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-21 05:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 06:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-08-19 23:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 02:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-20 14:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-21 07:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-21 15:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 15:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 17:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 18:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 19:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 19:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 20:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 21:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-22 17:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-08-22 17:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2017-08-21 17:30 +0200
No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 10:40 +0200
No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 10:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-08-21 17:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 20:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 03:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 03:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-16 06:40 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 21:30 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-14 22:40 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 23:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-14 23:50 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:40 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-16 14:30 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-16 16:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 11:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-28 12:50 +0200
obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 08:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 00:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 11:50 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-19 15:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 16:00 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 20:00 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:30 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-21 15:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 16:30 +0200
obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 09:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200
Page 4 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 Next page →
| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-16 04:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueVML-F3-29@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185312 |
On Tuesday 15 August 2017 15:46:15 Brian wrote: > On Tue 15 Aug 2017 at 14:53:39 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Tuesday 15 August 2017 14:19:37 David Wright wrote: > > > On Tue 15 Aug 2017 at 13:24:56 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 15 August 2017 10:48:12 Nicolas George wrote: > > > > > L'octidi 28 thermidor, an CCXXV, Erik Christiansen a écrit : > > > > > > Around 30 years of familiarity across many *nix flavours. > > > > > > > > > > You said it: the only superiority of ifconfig over iproute2 is > > > > > tradition and familiarity of long-time users. On the other > > > > > hand, ifconfig is technically inferior on most if not all > > > > > points. > > > > > > > > > > I hope you realize that traditions and familiarity of old > > > > > geezers can only go so far to justify the evolution or > > > > > non-evolution of a system. Otherwise, we still would have ed > > > > > in the base system. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Nicolas: The nearest ipv6 address to me is likely 150 miles > > > > north, in Pittsburgh PA. Its all ipv4 here in WV AFAIK. > > > > > > Odd, the nearest to me is underneath the table. I use 6 a lot, > > > as a cat5 cable is much faster than two legs of weak wireless > > > to the router and back. And it requires no configuration—it's > > > just there. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > David. > > > > Thats a bridge I'll cross, if it gets here before I miss morning > > roll call. :) > > If you do, you'll be on a charge. :) Around here, the ovens only get lit for cash. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueOBB-4KI-35@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185290 |
L'octidi 28 thermidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit : > Nicolas: The nearest ipv6 address to me is likely 150 miles north, in > Pittsburgh PA. Its all ipv4 here in WV AFAIK. You seem to be under the misapprehension that the policy of Debian development revolves around your personal perceived needs. It does not. Regards, -- Nicolas George
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <uePeh-4Zy-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185300 |
On Tuesday 15 August 2017 14:01:28 Nicolas George wrote: > L'octidi 28 thermidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit : > > Nicolas: The nearest ipv6 address to me is likely 150 miles north, > > in Pittsburgh PA. Its all ipv4 here in WV AFAIK. > > You seem to be under the misapprehension that the policy of Debian > development revolves around your personal perceived needs. It does > not. > > Regards, Not at all, Nicolas, but I do want to be prepared when it (ipv6) does arrive in these here hills. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueKHD-2hj-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185255 |
Dejan Jocic composed on 2017-08-15 15:03 (UTC+0200):
> Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> Nicolas George wrote:
>> > Please ellaborate. Why should ifconfig be part of the base system?
>> With pleasure. It is the most basic and useful *nix networking tool,
>> traditional since well back in the last millennium, spanning hp-ux,
>> sunos, then solaris, and various linux distros, in my experience. Even
>> if used mostly interrogatively these days, it is the quickest way to
>> check how "eth0" is currently encrypted, what the IP address is, etc. It
'ip a' get's me what I'm interested in with less typing than 'ifconfig -a'.
>> is not anything which needs to be added - we just need busybodies to
>> refrain from taking it out.
> And what exactly do you miss in ifconfig and net-tools package, that you
> can not do with ip, which is part of iproute2 package that comes as part
> of base system?
Interesting man page difference:
Stretch:
Ifconfig is used to configure the kernel-resident network
interfaces. It is used at boot time to set up interfaces as
necessary. After that, it is usually only needed when debug-
ging or when system tuning is needed.
If no arguments are given, ifconfig displays the status of the
currently active interfaces. If a single interface argument is
given, it displays the status of the given interface only; if a
single -a argument is given, it displays the status of all
interfaces, even those that are down. Otherwise, it configures
an interface.
openSUSE:
Ifconfig is used to configure the kernel-resident network
interfaces. It is used at boot time to set up interfaces as
necessary. After that, it is usually only needed when debug-
ging or when system tuning is needed.
WARNING: Ifconfig is obsolete on system with Linux kernel newer
than 2.0. On this system you should use ip. See the ip manual
page for details
If no arguments are given, ifconfig displays the status of the
currently active interfaces. If a single interface argument is
given, it displays the status of the given interface only; if a
single -a argument is given, it displays the status of all
interfaces, even those that are down. Otherwise, it configures
an interface.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 16:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueLaF-2u5-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185261 |
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017, Felix Miata wrote: > >> > Please ellaborate. Why should ifconfig be part of the base system? Indeed. It shouldn't, and it doesn't anymore. Maybe net-tools should be part of the *standard* system, but it certainly does not belong to the *base* system anymore. *base* is "what is required for packages to be installed and upgraded"... > >> is not anything which needs to be added - we just need busybodies to > >> refrain from taking it out. https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#iproute2 It is broken in that it just *can't* handle the Linux networking stack except for the bare minimum functionality on IPv4 (no, it doesn't meet even the bare minimum for IPv6), and the only reason we had to keep it around by default (consistent output that some scripts scrapped) was broken by GNU upstream when it took ifconfig out of the bit-rot pit hell and started maintaining it again. So, it [somewhat recently] broke scripts that scrapped its output, and it will give you incomplete/incorrect information because it can't handle lots of details of the Linux networking stack... > Interesting man page difference: > > Stretch: > Ifconfig is used to configure the kernel-resident network > interfaces. It is used at boot time to set up interfaces as > necessary. After that, it is usually only needed when debug- > ging or when system tuning is needed. > > If no arguments are given, ifconfig displays the status of the > currently active interfaces. If a single interface argument is > given, it displays the status of the given interface only; if a > single -a argument is given, it displays the status of all > interfaces, even those that are down. Otherwise, it configures > an interface. Which is outdated... In Debian, it is *not* used to configure anything at boot time: not with systemd, and not with sysvinit+initscripts. And if any Debian package wants/needs it, it has to depend on net-tools. > WARNING: Ifconfig is obsolete on system with Linux kernel newer > than 2.0. On this system you should use ip. See the ip manual > page for details We should add that paragraph, yes, and remove the "boot time" stuff :-) -- Henrique Holschuh
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| From | Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 10:10 +0200 |
| Subject | No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ug6Zr-7dH-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185266 |
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh: > [...] and the only reason we had to keep it around by default [...] > was broken by GNU upstream when it took ifconfig out of the bit-rot > pit hell and started maintaining it again. net-tools is not a GNU Software package. * https://sourceforge.net/projects/net-tools/ * https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html
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| From | Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 14:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugaJH-19w-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185478 |
On Sat, 19 Aug 2017, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > Henrique de Moraes Holschuh: > > [...] and the only reason we had to keep it around by default [...] was > > broken by GNU upstream when it took ifconfig out of the bit-rot pit hell > > and started maintaining it again. > > net-tools is not a GNU Software package. Hmm, indeed it isn't. I apologise for the mistake. -- Henrique Holschuh
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 17:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueLX5-30v-25@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185251 |
On Tuesday 15 August 2017 07:33:53 Nicolas George wrote: > L'octidi 28 thermidor, an CCXXV, Erik Christiansen a écrit : > > If it's no longer part of the base system, then perhaps the system > > is too base? > > Please ellaborate. Why should ifconfig be part of the base system? > > Regards, Because ip is a pain in the ass to make it run, and still gives grossly incomplete information? In 2 years, I have yet to get a full network report out of ip such as ifconfig gives. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 18:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueN2O-3DK-35@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185274 |
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote: > Because ip is a pain in the ass to make it run, and still gives grossly > incomplete information? > > In 2 years, I have yet to get a full network report out of ip such as > ifconfig gives. How about fixing ip? Like 'ip --config'? Or just 'ip -h'? I've written many scripts over the years, using ifconfig and others, and having everything broken now is a major PITA. I very much agree that sysV init and those old commands were a mess, especially with the introduction of ipv6. But I'd have more inclined to fix what was there than to replace it with commands that return gibberish and kill so many scripts so many people have written. One of the benefits, to me anyway, of Debian, Linux, and GNU was that things were very often designed to output text, for the benefit of humans. For the benefit of computers, that info could easily be parsed by other commands. -- Glenn English
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| From | Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ug7st-7nV-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185281 |
Glenn English: > I've written many scripts over the years, using ifconfig and others, > and having everything broken now is a major PITA. > > I very much agree that sysV init and those old commands were a mess, > especially with the introduction of ipv6. But I'd have more inclined > to fix what was there than to replace it with commands that return > gibberish and kill so many scripts so many people have written. > That is, in fact, what the BSD people did. On FreeBSD and OpenBSD, for examples, modern ifconfig has fully functional IPv6 capability, with parameters like (to pick just some at random) eui64, prefixlen, auto_linklocal, autoconfprivacy, defaultif, and ifdisabled.
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| From | Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 11:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ug8ox-81N-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185480 |
On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 09:15:42AM +0100, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > Glenn English: > > > I've written many scripts over the years, using ifconfig and others, and having everything broken now is a major > > PITA. > > > > I very much agree that sysV init and those old commands were a mess, especially with the introduction of ipv6. But > > I'd have more inclined to fix what was there than to replace it with commands that return gibberish and kill so > > many scripts so many people have written. > > > > That is, in fact, what the BSD people did. On FreeBSD and OpenBSD, for examples, modern ifconfig has fully functional > IPv6 capability, with parameters like (to pick just some at random) eui64, prefixlen, auto_linklocal, autoconfprivacy, > defaultif, and ifdisabled. Perhaps Devuan would better suit you? - they keep sysvinit as primary, saving you the hassle of updating/ rewriting your scripts and/ or learning systemd. Or as you mention, FreeBSD or OpenBSD? There is no shortage of options.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 15:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugbZ7-1PQ-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185480 |
On Saturday 19 August 2017 04:15:42 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > Glenn English: > > I've written many scripts over the years, using ifconfig and others, > > and having everything broken now is a major PITA. > > > > I very much agree that sysV init and those old commands were a mess, > > especially with the introduction of ipv6. But I'd have more inclined > > to fix what was there than to replace it with commands that return > > gibberish and kill so many scripts so many people have written. > +10 > That is, in fact, what the BSD people did. On FreeBSD and OpenBSD, > for examples, modern ifconfig has fully functional IPv6 capability, > with parameters like (to pick just some at random) eui64, prefixlen, > auto_linklocal, autoconfprivacy, defaultif, and ifdisabled. So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want to do with a computer? Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 15:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugciu-1Wb-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185493 |
Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit : > So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish > generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want > to do with a computer? Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys. -- Nicolas George
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| From | Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 16:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugcLv-2mK-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185494 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
> From: fungilife@protonmail.com > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org <debian-user@lists.debian.org> > Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> > >> From: george@nsup.org >> To: Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> >> debian-user@lists.debian.org >> >> Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit : >>> So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish >>> generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want >>> to do with a computer? >> >> Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys. > > Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can > become "your" lackeys. > >> Nicolas George Or at least that is what this video says: [https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/113](https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/113/)
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| From | Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 16:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugcLv-2mK-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185494 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
> From: george@nsup.org > To: Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> > debian-user@lists.debian.org > > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit : >> So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish >> generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want >> to do with a computer? > > Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys. Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can become "your" lackeys. > Nicolas George
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| From | Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 16:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugcVc-2qd-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185497 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
> From: george@nsup.org > To: Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> > debian-user@lists.debian.org <debian-user@lists.debian.org>, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> > > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit : >> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can >> become "your" lackeys. > > Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did so > because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is libelous > and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and apologize > immediately. I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in Gene's signature order). I am way beyond soap bubbles. But don't take it personally, it is only politics. > -- > Nicolas George
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| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 17:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugdxT-2S1-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185498 |
Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit : > >> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can > >> become "your" lackeys. > > Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did so > > because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is libelous > > and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and apologize > > immediately. > I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in Gene's signature order). > I am way beyond soap bubbles. But don't take it personally, it is only politics. As far as I am concerned, the jury has already given its conclusions about you both, and I have decided to never give you any help whatsoever, unless you change your attitude dramatically. I suspect most helpful contributors on this list have already silently decided the same, or will do so soon if you continue insulting the Debian developers. Anyway, I have no hope that you will understand my position, I post it to make it clear for other readers. No doubt you will answer this mail with another useless stunt. Please go ahead. -- Nicolas George
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 20:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <uggP7-4KA-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185501 |
On Saturday 19 August 2017 10:49:57 Nicolas George wrote: > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit : > > >> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat > > >> and they can become "your" lackeys. > > > > > > Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did > > > so because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is > > > libelous and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and > > > apologize immediately. > > > > I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in Gene's > > signature order). I am way beyond soap bubbles. But don't take it > > personally, it is only politics. > > As far as I am concerned, the jury has already given its conclusions > about you both, and I have decided to never give you any help > whatsoever, unless you change your attitude dramatically. I suspect > most helpful contributors on this list have already silently decided > the same, or will do so soon if you continue insulting the Debian > developers. This has already affected my willingness to help people having trouble with network-mangler. For folks with a small SOHO network setup that involves the maximum of 253 or so maximum addresses, the most dependable intermachine method is identical /etc/hosts files, combined with an identical /etc/resolv.conf on all machines. You then setup an eth0 stanza in /etc/network/interfaces that matches the name assigned to that machine. Interfaces will look something like this: ============= auto lo # The loopback network interface iface lo inet loopback address 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 auto eth0 # regular network for coyote.den iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.xx.xx netmask 255.255.255.0 gateway 192.168.xx.xx ================= Substituting that machines address in place of the xx.xx Shut down dhcpd as its not needed, nor is network-mangler. And the best part? It Just Works(TM). But I've caught so much static over preaching about a non-network-mangler solution that is 90% less trouble to setup that I have given up speaking up when to me that solution is the ideal solution to their problems. So you can ignore me, and I'll ignore you, until you contradict me, thereby adding to the poor OP's confusion. Where your expertise exceeds mine, I'll do the same. Fair? > Anyway, I have no hope that you will understand my position, I post it > to make it clear for other readers. No doubt you will answer this mail > with another useless stunt. Please go ahead. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 21:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugh8t-4T8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185510 |
On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 14:38:57 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 19 August 2017 10:49:57 Nicolas George wrote: > > > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit : > > > >> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat > > > >> and they can become "your" lackeys. > > > > > > > > Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did > > > > so because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is > > > > libelous and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and > > > > apologize immediately. > > > > > > I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in Gene's > > > signature order). I am way beyond soap bubbles. But don't take it > > > personally, it is only politics. > > > > As far as I am concerned, the jury has already given its conclusions > > about you both, and I have decided to never give you any help > > whatsoever, unless you change your attitude dramatically. I suspect > > most helpful contributors on this list have already silently decided > > the same, or will do so soon if you continue insulting the Debian > > developers. > > This has already affected my willingness to help people having trouble > with network-mangler. > > For folks with a small SOHO network setup that involves the maximum of > 253 or so maximum addresses, the most dependable intermachine method is > identical /etc/hosts files, combined with an identical /etc/resolv.conf > on all machines. You then setup an eth0 stanza > in /etc/network/interfaces that matches the name assigned to that > machine. Interfaces will look something like this: > ============= > auto lo > > # The loopback network interface > iface lo inet loopback > address 127.0.0.1 > netmask 255.255.255.0 > > auto eth0 > > # regular network for coyote.den > iface eth0 inet static > address 192.168.xx.xx > netmask 255.255.255.0 > gateway 192.168.xx.xx > ================= > > Substituting that machines address in place of the xx.xx > Shut down dhcpd as its not needed, nor is network-mangler. > > And the best part? It Just Works(TM). > > But I've caught so much static over preaching about a non-network-mangler > solution that is 90% less trouble to setup that I have given up speaking > up when to me that solution is the ideal solution to their problems. > > So you can ignore me, and I'll ignore you, until you contradict me, > thereby adding to the poor OP's confusion. Where your expertise exceeds > mine, I'll do the same. Fair? Which "poor OP" are you referring to? It has been a long thread. > > Anyway, I have no hope that you will understand my position, I post it > > to make it clear for other readers. No doubt you will answer this mail > > with another useless stunt. Please go ahead. network-mangler? This demonstrates a disdain for the work put into making networking comfortable on Debian. It also probably infers a lack of any deep understanding of how the software works. /etc/hosts files advocated? What is wrong with using avahi-demon? This is 2017. -- Brian.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 21:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ughBw-5hL-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185513 |
On Saturday 19 August 2017 14:57:46 Brian wrote: > On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 14:38:57 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Saturday 19 August 2017 10:49:57 Nicolas George wrote: > > > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit : > > > > >> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red > > > > >> hat and they can become "your" lackeys. > > > > > > > > > > Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd > > > > > did so because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat > > > > > instead is libelous and deeply insulting to them. I suggest > > > > > you retract and apologize immediately. > > > > > > > > I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in > > > > Gene's signature order). I am way beyond soap bubbles. But > > > > don't take it personally, it is only politics. > > > > > > As far as I am concerned, the jury has already given its > > > conclusions about you both, and I have decided to never give you > > > any help whatsoever, unless you change your attitude dramatically. > > > I suspect most helpful contributors on this list have already > > > silently decided the same, or will do so soon if you continue > > > insulting the Debian developers. > > > > This has already affected my willingness to help people having > > trouble with network-mangler. > > > > For folks with a small SOHO network setup that involves the maximum > > of 253 or so maximum addresses, the most dependable intermachine > > method is identical /etc/hosts files, combined with an identical > > /etc/resolv.conf on all machines. You then setup an eth0 stanza > > in /etc/network/interfaces that matches the name assigned to that > > machine. Interfaces will look something like this: > > ============= > > auto lo > > > > # The loopback network interface > > iface lo inet loopback > > address 127.0.0.1 > > netmask 255.255.255.0 > > > > auto eth0 > > > > # regular network for coyote.den > > iface eth0 inet static > > address 192.168.xx.xx > > netmask 255.255.255.0 > > gateway 192.168.xx.xx > > ================= > > > > Substituting that machines address in place of the xx.xx > > Shut down dhcpd as its not needed, nor is network-mangler. > > > > And the best part? It Just Works(TM). > > > > But I've caught so much static over preaching about a > > non-network-mangler solution that is 90% less trouble to setup that > > I have given up speaking up when to me that solution is the ideal > > solution to their problems. > > > > So you can ignore me, and I'll ignore you, until you contradict me, > > thereby adding to the poor OP's confusion. Where your expertise > > exceeds mine, I'll do the same. Fair? > > Which "poor OP" are you referring to? It has been a long thread. > Heck of a good question Brian, it has indeed been a long thread, and my short term memory fails me. > > > Anyway, I have no hope that you will understand my position, I > > > post it to make it clear for other readers. No doubt you will > > > answer this mail with another useless stunt. Please go ahead. > > network-mangler? This demonstrates a disdain for the work put into > making networking comfortable on Debian. It also probably infers a > lack of any deep understanding of how the software works. > > /etc/hosts files advocated? What is wrong with using avahi-demon? > This is 2017. For starters, it seems not to want to use 192.168 addresses very well. I run it, but no clue what it does except assign the wrong address to what it discovers. But my curiosity bump needed scratching, so I looked at /etc/avahi/hosts, and the only machine/address it discovered is correct, for my brother MFC's scanner.local. The tabloid capable printer in it is also at that address. I looked at the manpage for daemon.conf but have not looked at the file. It seems to me that if its to be usefull, it should detect everything in my local class D block. There are from 4 to 6 other machines here, 4 others minimum. Why did it not detect them also? If its to be OOTB a substitute for /etc/hosts, its not doing at all well. Thanks Brian. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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