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Groups > linux.debian.user > #185161 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-08-14 11:50 +0200 |
| Last post | 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 144 — 27 participants |
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no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 11:50 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-14 13:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 13:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-14 13:40 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 13:50 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 18:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 23:20 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 14:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 15:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-14 15:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 15:50 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-14 16:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-14 16:40 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 18:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 17:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 18:20 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 12:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 22:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-19 23:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 12:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 14:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 15:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 15:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-15 16:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 16:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 19:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:30 +0200
Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 10:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 11:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-16 12:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-16 14:30 +0200
Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 16:20 +0200
Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-16 16:40 +0200
Re: Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 17:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 22:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-08-15 22:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 04:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 09:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 16:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 17:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 04:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-15 16:40 +0200
No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-19 14:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 17:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-08-19 11:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 15:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 17:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 20:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 02:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 16:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Ansgar Burchardt <ansgar@debian.org> - 2017-08-20 12:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-21 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 16:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-20 14:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-20 14:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-20 17:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-21 05:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 06:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-08-19 23:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 02:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-20 14:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-21 07:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-21 15:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 15:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 17:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 18:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 19:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 19:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 20:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 21:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-22 17:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-08-22 17:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2017-08-21 17:30 +0200
No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 10:40 +0200
No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 10:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-08-21 17:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 20:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 03:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 03:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-16 06:40 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 21:30 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-14 22:40 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 23:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-14 23:50 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:40 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-16 14:30 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-16 16:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 11:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-28 12:50 +0200
obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 08:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 00:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 11:50 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-19 15:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 16:00 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 20:00 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:30 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-21 15:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 16:30 +0200
obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 09:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200
Page 5 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 Next page →
| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 21:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ughLc-5kP-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185517 |
On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 15:26:02 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 19 August 2017 14:57:46 Brian wrote: > > > /etc/hosts files advocated? What is wrong with using avahi-demon? > > This is 2017. > > For starters, it seems not to want to use 192.168 addresses very well. I > run it, but no clue what it does except assign the wrong address to what > it discovers. > > But my curiosity bump needed scratching, so I looked at /etc/avahi/hosts, > and the only machine/address it discovered is correct, for my brother > MFC's scanner.local. The tabloid capable printer in it is also at that > address. I looked at the manpage for daemon.conf but have not looked at > the file. It seems to me that if its to be usefull, it should detect > everything in my local class D block. There are from 4 to 6 other > machines here, 4 others minimum. Why did it not detect them also? If > its to be OOTB a substitute for /etc/hosts, its not doing at all well. Cannot help you with the 192.168 addresses thing. But, given your curiosity bent, I think you could sort this out if you look at what /etc/hosts and avahi do. I've never need to alter /etc/avahi/hosts. -- Brian.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 21:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ughUS-5o9-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185518 |
On Saturday 19 August 2017 15:38:14 Brian wrote: > On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 15:26:02 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Saturday 19 August 2017 14:57:46 Brian wrote: > > > /etc/hosts files advocated? What is wrong with using avahi-demon? > > > This is 2017. > > > > For starters, it seems not to want to use 192.168 addresses very > > well. I run it, but no clue what it does except assign the wrong > > address to what it discovers. > > > > But my curiosity bump needed scratching, so I looked at > > /etc/avahi/hosts, and the only machine/address it discovered is > > correct, for my brother MFC's scanner.local. The tabloid capable > > printer in it is also at that address. I looked at the manpage for > > daemon.conf but have not looked at the file. It seems to me that if > > its to be usefull, it should detect everything in my local class D > > block. There are from 4 to 6 other machines here, 4 others minimum. > > Why did it not detect them also? If its to be OOTB a substitute for > > /etc/hosts, its not doing at all well. > > Cannot help you with the 192.168 addresses thing. But, given your > curiosity bent, I think you could sort this out if you look at what > /etc/hosts and avahi do. I've never need to alter /etc/avahi/hosts. I know what etc/hosts is, but the instant question is "do I add /etc/avahi/hosts as a 3rd place to look for this data?, and if so, the expected syntax to use in my /etc/resolv.conf?" Currently: # Generated by Gene Heskett nameserver 192.168.71.1 search host,dns domain coyote.den Thanks Brian. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-20 02:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <uglYu-82l-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185513 |
On 2017-08-19, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote: (...) > network-mangler? This demonstrates a disdain for the work put into > making networking comfortable on Debian. It also probably infers a > lack of any deep understanding of how the software works. s/infers/implies Other than that, +1 -- Liam
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| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 16:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugcVc-2qd-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185497 |
Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit : > Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can > become "your" lackeys. Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did so because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is libelous and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and apologize immediately. -- Nicolas George
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| From | Ansgar Burchardt <ansgar@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-20 12:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugvbs-5hR-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185497 |
Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> writes: >> Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys. > > Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can > become "your" lackeys. Could you take your crazy conspiracy theories somewhere else? I'm also very tempted to suggest contacting a mental health professional if you truly believe what you write and are not just trolling. Ansgar
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| From | Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-21 15:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugUWd-4Ub-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185550 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
From: ansgar@debian.org > To: Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> > debian-user\@lists.debian.org <debian-user@lists.debian.org> > > Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> writes: >>> Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys. >> >> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can >> become "your" lackeys. > > Could you take your crazy conspiracy theories somewhere else? I"m also > very tempted to suggest contacting a mental health professional if you > truly believe what you write and are not just trolling. First of all this is a "users" list, I belong here. I may be crazy, but crazy people can follow logical arguments despite of their craziness. Please explain to us this madness of spider-web neural network of universally unique identifiers of every stinking little piece of hw item the system encounters? Explain to me/us how these uu-identifiers are being blocked from being communicated. What is the overall purpose? Someone (Erik?) already posted the commonality of transplanting your "system disk" into another machine and facing more madness than I can be diagnosed with. My crazy brain says: "forensic science", relating and identifying an insignificant piece of evidence with something else. At least have the infrastructure that supports such relational "madness", because for sure judges and attorneys can't understand. Nobody is paying me to shut up! And that is not so crazy. And by the time this message goes to the public archives you'd better come up with a logical explanation that defeats my crazy mode of thought. > Ansgar Again. It is not personal, it is the hydra behind the matrix that is causing madness.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 16:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugcVc-2qd-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185494 |
On Saturday 19 August 2017 09:30:10 Nicolas George wrote: > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit : > > So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this > > gibberish generator called ip, so we can just get back to doing the > > things we want to do with a computer? > > Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys. I (in the first person sense) do not expect them to be, but when a change is made, and its not an improvement the users can see, as evidenced by the level and tone of rhetoric seen here about it, whatever "it" might be, something decent docs would tamp down, I'd expect some adjustments to be made. Either in the docs, or the code. I don't believe for a millisecond the writers are trying to make life for the average user harder, "we understand it, why can't you", but we aren't you, we don't understand why a useful tool has been deprecated. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 19:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugg2K-4fr-25@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185499 |
On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 10:23:37 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 19 August 2017 09:30:10 Nicolas George wrote: > > > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit : > > > So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this > > > gibberish generator called ip, so we can just get back to doing the > > > things we want to do with a computer? > > > > Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys. > > I (in the first person sense) do not expect them to be, but when a change > is made, and its not an improvement the users can see, as evidenced by > the level and tone of rhetoric seen here about it, whatever "it" might > be, something decent docs would tamp down, I'd expect some adjustments > to be made. Either in the docs, or the code. I don't believe for a > millisecond the writers are trying to make life for the average user > harder, "we understand it, why can't you", but we aren't you, we don't > understand why a useful tool has been deprecated. I know this thread has been a long, interesting and involved one but it included this: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/08/msg00798.html To remind ourselves (about why net-tools is not in the base system): Indeed. It shouldn't, and it doesn't anymore. Maybe net-tools should be part of the *standard* system, but it certainly does not belong to the *base* system anymore. Continuing: It is broken in that it just *can't* handle the Linux networking stack except for the bare minimum functionality on IPv4 (no, it doesn't meet even the bare minimum for IPv6), and the only reason we had to keep it around by default (consistent output that some scripts scrapped) was broken by GNU upstream when it took ifconfig out of the bit-rot pit hell and started maintaining it again. A minor effort in research comes up with a posting from 2009: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/03/msg00780.html Luk Claes and me, as the current maintainers of net-tools, we've been thinking about it's future. Net-tools has been a core part of Debian and any other linux based distro for many years, but it's showing its age. It doesnt support many of the modern features of the linux kernel, the interface is far from optimal and difficult to use in automatisation, and also, it hasn't got much love in the last years. The average user has to get their head round this (without invoking "I have eated my potatos mashed for the past thirty years") to understand why net-tools has been deprecated. And, of course, "deprecated" does not bar a user from installing the net-tools package. You know what? Both could be used. Ease yourself in! Quality of documentation in the iproute2 package? File bugs. (With patches). HowILearnedtoStopWorryingandLovetheiproute2Package sounds like a decent wiki title. It could have loads of examples and contrasts with ifconfig based on the knowledgeable contributions in this thread. Any takers (he says, not holding his breath). -- Brian.
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| From | Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-20 14:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugxGh-738-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185508 |
On 19.08.17 18:40, Brian wrote: > I know this thread has been a long, interesting and involved one but it > included this: > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/08/msg00798.html > > To remind ourselves (about why net-tools is not in the base system): > > Indeed. It shouldn't, and it doesn't anymore. Maybe net-tools should > be part of the *standard* system, but it certainly does not belong to > the *base* system anymore. > > Continuing: > > It is broken in that it just *can't* handle the Linux networking stack > except for the bare minimum functionality on IPv4 (no, it doesn't meet > even the bare minimum for IPv6), and the only reason we had to keep it > around by default (consistent output that some scripts scrapped) was > broken by GNU upstream when it took ifconfig out of the bit-rot pit hell > and started maintaining it again. Any reasonable reader of this thread accepts that it should not be in the base distro, I'm certain. It would be an act of generosity to old fogeys to include it in the standard distro. (They're probably not running IPv6, if Gene and I are any guide.) But it took only a moment to apt-get the package, giving me ifconfig on debian 9.0, and nullifying all reason to seek any default inclusions. Gene, if ya can make your own nipples for black powder longarms, then a bit of DIY debian isn't a show stopper, I figure. I've nibbled on the skinny end of "ip" by using "ip route" in lieu of "netstat -rn" in the last few days, and could get used to some of it. Erik
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-20 14:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugxPY-773-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185560 |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 10:30:05PM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:
[...]
> Any reasonable reader of this thread accepts that it should not be in
> the base distro, I'm certain. It would be an act of generosity to old
> fogeys to include it in the standard distro. (They're probably not running
> IPv6, if Gene and I are any guide.)
>
> But it took only a moment to apt-get the package, giving me ifconfig on
> debian 9.0, and nullifying all reason to seek any default inclusions.
Gosh. At last a reasonable standpoint, thanks. In the case of systemd I can
understand some excitement (I don't get all the bile on both sides, the
one patholigizing the other ("you're just change-averse" [1]), the other
criminalizing the one ("you're trying to kill Holy Unix").
But in this case, where ifconfig isn't going anywhere, well, apt-get
install it. It can coexist peacefully with ip (disclosure: I just have
both). And if you are keen on keeping it, just join the packager's
mailing list, lurk there for a while and see whether you can pick up
some task (buying the maintainer a pizza or a beer does count!).
> Gene, if ya can make your own nipples for black powder longarms, then a
> bit of DIY debian isn't a show stopper, I figure.
:-))
Cheers
[1] Or "It's 2017, ferchrissake!". As if history developed linearly
and always new > old.
- -- tomás
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OfoAniVLGt4OnwpPgVC5w9HzmHomZ4v0
=bxF4
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-20 17:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugAEa-os-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185560 |
On Sunday 20 August 2017 08:30:05 Erik Christiansen wrote: > On 19.08.17 18:40, Brian wrote: > > I know this thread has been a long, interesting and involved one but > > it included this: > > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/08/msg00798.html > > > > To remind ourselves (about why net-tools is not in the base system): > > > > Indeed. It shouldn't, and it doesn't anymore. Maybe net-tools > > should be part of the *standard* system, but it certainly does not > > belong to the *base* system anymore. > > > > Continuing: > > > > It is broken in that it just *can't* handle the Linux networking > > stack except for the bare minimum functionality on IPv4 (no, it > > doesn't meet even the bare minimum for IPv6), and the only reason we > > had to keep it around by default (consistent output that some > > scripts scrapped) was broken by GNU upstream when it took ifconfig > > out of the bit-rot pit hell and started maintaining it again. > > Any reasonable reader of this thread accepts that it should not be in > the base distro, I'm certain. It would be an act of generosity to old > fogeys to include it in the standard distro. (They're probably not > running IPv6, if Gene and I are any guide.) > > But it took only a moment to apt-get the package, giving me ifconfig > on debian 9.0, and nullifying all reason to seek any default > inclusions. > > Gene, if ya can make your own nipples for black powder longarms, then > a bit of DIY debian isn't a show stopper, I figure. Thats part of my if it ain't broke, don't fix it upbringing. And the available nipples were very badly broken by design, incapable of igniteing the black substitute powder sold as Blackhorn 209, so I made one that would. But I need to get some SS and do them again, regular steel gradually closes the #68 flashholes with the primer deposits. Hell to keep them clean. OTOH dirty still does a 1.25" group at 50 meters. And that _will_ put venison in the pot. > I've nibbled on the skinny end of "ip" by using "ip route" in lieu of > "netstat -rn" in the last few days, and could get used to some of it. > While I can't define that its busted, it does give the answer requested, but its specific and one must read the man page repeatedly in order to get/set all the data needed. ifconfig is a one size fits all, and preferable because it does give you everything. I'll get used to it in due time even if it sounds like I'm kicking and screaming as I get sucked into the next generation of networking. IMO of course. Old fogey? That too, one that has a lengthy list of BTDT's. Having a decent recipe for setting up my local network to ipv6, I'd feel a lot more comfortable and capable of dealing with ipv6 when ipv6 is the operating network on the other side of my router. 150 miles away is NOT on the other side of my router... Where is the tut for doing that? What I've found seems to assume an ipv6 enabled dhcpd, which would IMO properly belong in the router/gateway box. Am I using the wrong search terms? Dunno. Thanks Erik Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-21 05:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugLpU-7i0-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185573 |
On 20.08.17 11:41, Gene Heskett wrote: > Having a decent recipe for setting up my local network to ipv6, I'd feel > a lot more comfortable and capable of dealing with ipv6 when ipv6 is the > operating network on the other side of my router. 150 miles away is NOT > on the other side of my router... > > Where is the tut for doing that? Dunno, gene. Still haven't migrated here, either. As long as we use unroutable addresses on the LAN, they have zero need to be anything other than IPv4. The modem/router can include the IPv4/IPv6 in its NAT, so who cares, when there's no problem to solve? Here in Oz we are adopting the country name of Slowvakia, as our internet speeds are slower than Slovakia, and IPv6 isn't busting the door down either. Erik
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-21 06:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugM2B-7uj-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185616 |
On Sunday 20 August 2017 23:14:06 Erik Christiansen wrote: > On 20.08.17 11:41, Gene Heskett wrote: > > Having a decent recipe for setting up my local network to ipv6, I'd > > feel a lot more comfortable and capable of dealing with ipv6 when > > ipv6 is the operating network on the other side of my router. 150 > > miles away is NOT on the other side of my router... > > > > Where is the tut for doing that? > > Dunno, gene. Still haven't migrated here, either. As long as we use > unroutable addresses on the LAN, they have zero need to be anything > other than IPv4. The modem/router can include the IPv4/IPv6 in its > NAT, so who cares, when there's no problem to solve? > Precisely Erik. So while it might be nice to know how, the bottom line is that no one in the last decade and change, has come past my router except to look at my web page which is on this machine. I've a one port number wide port forward that allows that. And to my amazement, considering the oddness of that setup, I do log several hundred hits a month on it. 4 GB of downloads from it so far this month. > Here in Oz we are adopting the country name of Slowvakia, as our > internet speeds are slower than Slovakia, and IPv6 isn't busting the > door down either. ;-) Yeah, out here in the hicks, I'm stuck at 10 megabits/sec. I can get more but what would I use it for? If it was income producing, that of course would make a difference. But its not. > Erik Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 23:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugjDk-6tm-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185499 |
On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 10:23:37AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 19 August 2017 09:30:10 Nicolas George wrote: > > > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit : > > > So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this > > > gibberish generator called ip, so we can just get back to doing the > > > things we want to do with a computer? > > > > Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys. > > I (in the first person sense) do not expect them to be, but when a change > is made, and its not an improvement the users can see, as evidenced by > the level and tone of rhetoric seen here about it, whatever "it" might > be, something decent docs would tamp down, I'd expect some adjustments > to be made. > Either in the docs, It's just doco, even other genders can do that, so by all means ... feel free to help out. > or the code. It's just codind, even other genders can do that, so by all means ... feel free to help out. > I don't believe for a > millisecond the writers are trying to make life for the average user > harder, "we understand it, why can't you", but we aren't you, we don't > understand why a useful tool has been deprecated. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett > -- > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene> >
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| From | Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-20 02:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugm89-85n-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185493 |
On 2017-08-19, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote: > On Saturday 19 August 2017 04:15:42 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > >> Glenn English: >> > I've written many scripts over the years, using ifconfig and others, >> > and having everything broken now is a major PITA. >> > >> > I very much agree that sysV init and those old commands were a mess, >> > especially with the introduction of ipv6. But I'd have more inclined >> > to fix what was there than to replace it with commands that return >> > gibberish and kill so many scripts so many people have written. >> > +10 > >> That is, in fact, what the BSD people did. On FreeBSD and OpenBSD, >> for examples, modern ifconfig has fully functional IPv6 capability, >> with parameters like (to pick just some at random) eui64, prefixlen, >> auto_linklocal, autoconfprivacy, defaultif, and ifdisabled. > > So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish > generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want > to do with a computer? Please feel free to port those improvements. If you are unable or unwilling to do that, you will need to persuade or pay someone else to do it for you. -- Liam
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| From | Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-20 14:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugxPY-773-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185493 |
On 19.08.17 09:26, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 19 August 2017 04:15:42 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > > That is, in fact, what the BSD people did. On FreeBSD and OpenBSD, > > for examples, modern ifconfig has fully functional IPv6 capability, > > with parameters like (to pick just some at random) eui64, prefixlen, > > auto_linklocal, autoconfprivacy, defaultif, and ifdisabled. > > So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish > generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want > to do with a computer? Gene, ifconfig is SysV flavoured, so not favoured on the Systemd journey, AIUI. I'll try Devuan on one of my machines when time permits, but FreeBSD has a Linux compatibility layer, allowing it to run Linux binaries, IIUC. It might be worth a try. There are big corporations relying on it on their servers, so it seems pretty solid. It is more SysV flavoured, and Systemd-free. Erik
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| From | Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-21 07:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugNi2-8vb-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185561 |
Erik Christiansen: > Gene, ifconfig is SysV flavoured, so not favoured on the Systemd > journey, AIUI. > van Smoorenburg init and systemd actually have nothing whatsoever to do with it. ifconfig uses one Linux API for sending information to and from the kernel, ip uses a different Linux API. Ironically, the net-tools package is completely Linux-specific *anyway*, so the usual argument that ifconfig couldn't be changed to use the other API, because it has to remain portable, does not hold any water. That said, one of the things that in practice ifconfig falls down on in real world use, where most of the use cases are fairly conventional and humdrum, is in IPV6 support: > root # ifconfig lo inet6 ::1 > > Don't know how to set addresses for family 10. > > root # > This is actually a fairly trivial oversight in a case statement in the code, rather than a fundamental design or implementation problem, though. It doesn't even need the other API.
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| From | Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-21 15:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugUtc-4t7-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185619 |
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 05:58:43AM +0100, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > van Smoorenburg init and systemd actually have nothing whatsoever to do with > it. ifconfig uses one Linux API for sending information to and from the > kernel, ip uses a different Linux API. Ironically, the net-tools package is > completely Linux-specific *anyway*, so the usual argument that ifconfig > couldn't be changed to use the other API, because it has to remain portable, > does not hold any water. The basic command-line syntax of ifconfig is pseudo-standardized across dozens of legacy Unix systems, as well as BSD. *This* is what people are really complaining about here -- the divergence of Linux from the rest of the Unix-speaking world (in addition to breaking backward compatibility with itself). E.g. Solaris 10: <http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19253-01/816-5166/6mbb1kq31/> E.g. HP-UX 11i: <http://nixdoc.net/man-pages/HP-UX/ifconfig.1m.html> E.g. AIX 6.1: <https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/ssw_aix_61/com.ibm.aix.cmds3/ifconfig.htm> E.g. OpenBSD 6.1: <http://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-6.1/ifconfig> I think updating net-tools to incorporate whatever new Linux network stack features it's currently not supporting would make a lot of people happy, so long as it doesn't break backward compatibility. (Like Gene, I don't even know what those featues *are*.)
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| From | Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-21 15:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugUCT-4Nm-27@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185636 |
Am 2017-08-21 14:50, schrieb Greg Wooledge:
> [missing features in ifconfig]
> (Like Gene, I don't even know what those featues *are*.)
From my personal experience, the following two things are
features I'm actually using regularly and that don't work
with it:
1. IPv6 doesn't really work properly (as explained elsewhere
by other people in this thread)
2. Can't add multiple IP addresses to the same interface and
(worse) even if multiple IP addresses are assigned to the
same interfaces it only shows the primary address
(2) is really bad, especially the part where it does not show
all of the IPs that were assigned by other tools, for example
NetworkManager, or Debian's own ifupdown via
/etc/network/interfaces.
Regards,
Christian
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-21 17:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ugWuZ-5Xs-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185637 |
On Monday 21 August 2017 09:08:11 Christian Seiler wrote: > Am 2017-08-21 14:50, schrieb Greg Wooledge: > > [missing features in ifconfig] > > (Like Gene, I don't even know what those featues *are*.) > > From my personal experience, the following two things are > features I'm actually using regularly and that don't work > with it: > > 1. IPv6 doesn't really work properly (as explained elsewhere > by other people in this thread) > 2. Can't add multiple IP addresses to the same interface and > (worse) even if multiple IP addresses are assigned to the > same interfaces it only shows the primary address I don't know as to how ifconfig sets it up, but its a piece of cake to edit /etc/network/interfaces to do that. If I bring in a new router, I uncomment this stanza in the interfaces file: ================ #auto eth0:1 # to access reset to 192.168.0.1 routers/switches on the 2nd cat5 port #iface eth0:1 inet static #address 192.168.0.3 #netmask 255.255.255.0 ============== giving me an address I can use to talk to and configure the new router. And I can recall doing it all with a nearly 20yo version of ifconfig the first time I needed to, following the instructions given to me over the phone from our network guy at the tv station. But remembering the arcania of how I did it then, vs the quick edit shown above, followed by a sudo service networking restart, is for me, buckets easier. > (2) is really bad, especially the part where it does not show > all of the IPs that were assigned by other tools, for example Huh? ifconfig doesn't even need a -a option to show me eth0:1 if ts configured and up. It does need the -a if the interface is configured but down. > NetworkManager, or Debian's own ifupdown via > /etc/network/interfaces. Please don't equate those two. Despite having a dhcpd server configured in my router, and which my lappy and my kids telephones can use without any problems, it (N-M) has yet, at this location, to achieve a working connection for any of my machines. My lappy uses wicd IIRC. N-M will tear a working connection down and leave you sitting under a bush on a deserted, .2 acre island. So I long ago learned the usefullness of the sudo chattr +i filename command as it got done to the various network related files, in a race to beat N-M's blanking of /etc/resolv.conf. Fortunately N-M had the great good sense to not load up the logs complaining about the loss of its access to those files. Lately, its been made removable, which for me is a "Good Thing". I agree with the concept of making networking just work, but the concept and the reality are not even in the same building here. That could even be my fault because I've never used the first 2 class D 192.168.x.x addresses for my home network. One more roadblock for the black hats to climb over, and in 20 years I've not been touched. > Regards, > Christian Cheers Christian, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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