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Thoughts on Anible?

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  Thoughts on Anible? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-08-19 01:10 +0200
    Re: Thoughts on Anible? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-19 08:50 +0200
      Re: Thoughts on Ansible? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-08-20 15:50 +0200
        Re: Thoughts on Ansible? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 17:50 +0200
          Re: Thoughts on Ansible? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-08-22 14:50 +0200
            Re: Thoughts on Ansible? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-22 18:40 +0200
    Re: Thoughts on Anible? Osamu Aoki <osamu@debian.org> - 2017-08-19 17:20 +0200
      Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-19 17:20 +0200
        Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-08-19 20:40 +0200
          Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] Osamu Aoki <osamu@debian.org> - 2017-08-19 21:50 +0200
            Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-08-20 01:50 +0200
          Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-08-20 00:00 +0200
            Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 01:40 +0200
              Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-08-20 12:50 +0200
                Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 13:00 +0200
              Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-08-22 15:00 +0200
                Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-22 18:50 +0200
            Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?] RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-08-22 15:00 +0200
    Re: Thoughts on Anible? Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2017-08-20 13:10 +0200
      Re: Thoughts on Anible? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 17:50 +0200

#185466 — Thoughts on Anible?

Please forgive my goofy questions. I am not really that well versed in 
CM (Configuration Management) and this post is really going to show it.

Because this will more than likely be tltr (too long to read), I'll try 
to make it as fun as possible. Forgive if my humor is a bit strange.

I noticed "Anible" isn't in the debian repos. Seems to be a Red Hat 
scripting engine for creating automated installs.

I wrote my own automated install script in Bash. Crude but worked. It 
didn't run as root (but would ask for sudo password if a command 
required it), and it ran on the machine that was to use apt-get and 
install packages, sed for editing configs, etc. Like I said, crude.

I'm currently learning Python (as in writing something while learning at 
the same time). So I'm re-writing my Bash script in Python as a practice 
project to learn from, and making it more general so I can use it with 
anything. I'm still in the process of creating the library of functions 
that will do the stuff like unzipping/untaring, installing packages, 
making directories, updating configuration files, etc. So far, it's 
really a lot easier than doing it all in Bash and I'm enjoying the 
learning process. It's going very well, actually.

I heard about "Ansible" and how it is supposed to make it easier to 
write installation scripts.

I took a look at the Ansible site's Quick Start video and was like 
'huh?' 'what?' "what just happened??" "What is he DOING??" I couldn't 
even decipher what he was saying, either (and English is my mother 
language). Then my eyes nearly popped out of my head. "Why in the blue 
blazes is he running this script on ONE machine, then ssh'ing into 
another machine as ROOT nonetheless and doing stuff on that remote 
machine as root via this scripting engine on the first machine? Isn't 
that supposed to be a big no-no or something??" I was thinking that's a 
lot of work to do when all you could do is write a Python (or bash) 
script and run it on the machine it's to install stuff on, then remove 
the script when done, and not have to ssh in as root! I felt too 
uncomfortable with the way the video was going about things.

Oh wait. He installs Ansible on the machine he just ssh'ed into as root 
and is running the script via Ansible on that machine. Ok, now that I 
think about it, how do you make sure all of Ansible is removed when 
done? I would at least want to uninstall Ansible afterwards so someone 
can't break in and use it to screw up the system. But then again, would 
they be able to?

I googled and saw that to make a directory using Ansible, you need to 
remember and write several lines in the YAML script. In python, it seems 
only one line was needed to create a directory (and with permissions).

I tried looking at Ansible's documentation. I recoiled worse than a 
(wait for it) Python! I'm one that learns by doing, not by reading "War 
and Peace" (which like this post, is tltr)!

My bash script (and python script) both run as current user and beep 
then ask for a sudo password whenever it needs to run something as sudo 
(if the sudo time hasn't timed out). It does the task as sudo and then 
goes on to the next task (which may or may not be sudo - if it's not, 
then it doesn't use sudo or root). So much of the script is run NOT as 
root/sudo. I assumed that is the best way to go about it? Also my script 
has colored output and a log file I can look at to see what got 
installed, when and where and how, or why something didn't get done, or 
edited, installed, etc.) The Ansible video only showed something was 
done but not what, and an IP address (which is not something useful in 
my situation).

For some strange reason, I'm finding my script easier to use and Python 
easier to write than trying to figure out Ansible. Besides, Python and 
Bash come pre-installed anyway.

Am I goofy or what? Someone please talk me into using Ansible. It seems 
googling, many people sing it's praises, but I'm not getting it for some 
reason. I'm petrified of that thing! I'm enjoying the process of 
learning Python, though.

Should I learn Ansible as well? Would it be a good skill? Or is it OK to 
just skip that idea and continue doing things my old-fashioned way using 
what's already there - bash or python?

I would like to have some decent linux development skills. I do know 
Perl quite well, and Bash I'm pretty decent at for the most part. I can 
write in C or C++ (and get myself in trouble, as you'd imagine). :)

Should Ansible be added to my list? Or do devs recommend something else?

(I am wondering if the "user" mailing list is even the right place to ask?)

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#185473

RavenLX wrote:

> Should Ansible be added to my list? Or do devs recommend something else?
> 
> (I am wondering if the "user" mailing list is even the right place to
> ask?)

It was indeed a long reading. I couldn't understand why you exactly use
config automation.

In my opinion it is best suited where you must manage multiple devices of
same type and keep them at same state.
I wrote recently few ansible playbooks. If you are experienced you may not
need that much testing, but ... still it takes time to write and improve a
playbook.

Knowing ansible does not have anything to do with python. Actually you need
more yaml knowledge. There are ready modules that you can use.

regards

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#185563 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible?

On 08/19/2017 02:43 AM, deloptes wrote:
> RavenLX wrote:
> 
>> Should Ansible be added to my list? Or do devs recommend something else?
>>
>> (I am wondering if the "user" mailing list is even the right place to
>> ask?)
> 
> It was indeed a long reading. I couldn't understand why you exactly use
> config automation.
> 
> In my opinion it is best suited where you must manage multiple devices of
> same type and keep them at same state.
> I wrote recently few ansible playbooks. If you are experienced you may not
> need that much testing, but ... still it takes time to write and improve a
> playbook.
> 
> Knowing ansible does not have anything to do with python. Actually you need
> more yaml knowledge. There are ready modules that you can use.
> 
> regards

A friend suggested Ansible, but I think I agree with you that for what I 
do, Ansible would be overkill. I have two laptops that I keep pretty 
identical and so far have done well doing so with only a bash script I 
wrote. As for servers I only maintain 1 web server and an identical test 
server that is a virtual machine on my own computer. So I don't have a 
lot of machines. (Well, to me they are not a lot).

Yaml is new to me. I'll have to look into it. I know a little about JSON 
and XML but that's it.

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#185571 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible?

RavenLX wrote:

> A friend suggested Ansible, but I think I agree with you that for what I
> do, Ansible would be overkill. I have two laptops that I keep pretty
> identical and so far have done well doing so with only a bash script I
> wrote. As for servers I only maintain 1 web server and an identical test
> server that is a virtual machine on my own computer. So I don't have a
> lot of machines. (Well, to me they are not a lot).
> 

Yes indeed, I think ansible is best when used to manage machines of similar
kind. If you want to keep your notebooks to same package and config level
it could be of advantage to write a simple ansible playbook to upgrade and
configure.

My experience is from a LXD project - roll out of the physical and then
virtual servers ... about 100+ in total.

> Yaml is new to me. I'll have to look into it. I know a little about JSON
> and XML but that's it.

Similar to JSON, but other logic and format. Don't worry if you have time to
play a bit, ansible could be fun and you can not only get management for
your notebooks, vms etc, but also learn YAML.

Note: under jessie you need to install and configure virtual python3 env and
pip install ansible into it.

Best use latest (and greatest) ansible version

regards

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#185700 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible?

On 08/20/2017 11:45 AM, deloptes wrote:
> RavenLX wrote:
> 
>> A friend suggested Ansible, but I think I agree with you that for what I
>> do, Ansible would be overkill. I have two laptops that I keep pretty
>> identical and so far have done well doing so with only a bash script I
>> wrote. As for servers I only maintain 1 web server and an identical test
>> server that is a virtual machine on my own computer. So I don't have a
>> lot of machines. (Well, to me they are not a lot).
>>
> 
> Yes indeed, I think ansible is best when used to manage machines of similar
> kind. If you want to keep your notebooks to same package and config level
> it could be of advantage to write a simple ansible playbook to upgrade and
> configure.
> 
> My experience is from a LXD project - roll out of the physical and then
> virtual servers ... about 100+ in total.
> 
>> Yaml is new to me. I'll have to look into it. I know a little about JSON
>> and XML but that's it.
> 
> Similar to JSON, but other logic and format. Don't worry if you have time to
> play a bit, ansible could be fun and you can not only get management for
> your notebooks, vms etc, but also learn YAML.
> 
> Note: under jessie you need to install and configure virtual python3 env and
> pip install ansible into it.
> 
> Best use latest (and greatest) ansible version
> 
> regards

For what I do, I would install Debian (Stretch is what I'm currently 
using) without any Desktop environment. Then my Bash Script installs a 
minimum KDE (without a lot of the dependent software I never use). Then 
reboots and I re-run the script in a terminal, which detects KDE is now 
running and goes about installing all the rest of the stuff and updating 
configurations, etc. Works great on both machines.

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#185727 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible?

RavenLX wrote:

> For what I do, I would install Debian (Stretch is what I'm currently
> using) without any Desktop environment. Then my Bash Script installs a
> minimum KDE (without a lot of the dependent software I never use). Then
> reboots and I re-run the script in a terminal, which detects KDE is now
> running and goes about installing all the rest of the stuff and updating
> configurations, etc. Works great on both machines.

if it works for you why bother with something else?

it's good to know what options there are anyway.

regards

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#185503

Hi,



On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 07:01:03PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
> Please forgive my goofy questions. I am not really that well versed in CM
> (Configuration Management) and this post is really going to show it.
> 
> Because this will more than likely be tltr (too long to read), I'll try to
> make it as fun as possible. Forgive if my humor is a bit strange.
> 
> I noticed "Anible" isn't in the debian repos. Seems to be a Red Hat
> scripting engine for creating automated installs.

Just a fact correction.

I think you are mistyping.  Ansible is in the repo of Debian:

$ apt show ansible
Package: ansible
Version: 2.2.1.0-2
Priority: optional
Section: admin
Maintainer: Harlan Lieberman-Berg <hlieberman@debian.org>
Installed-Size: 12.8 MB
Depends: python-crypto (>= 2.6), python-jinja2, python-paramiko, python-pkg-resources, python-yaml, python:any (<< 2.8), python:any (>= 2.7.5-5~), python-httplib2, python-netaddr
Recommends: python-kerberos, python-selinux, python-winrm (>= 0.1.1), python-xmltodict
Suggests: cowsay, sshpass
Homepage: https://www.ansible.com
Tag: admin::automation, admin::configuring, admin::file-distribution,
 admin::package-management, implemented-in::python,
 interface::commandline, role::program, use::configuring,
 works-with::software:running
Download-Size: 1,675 kB
APT-Sources: http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 Packages
Description: Configuration management, deployment, and task execution system
 Ansible is a radically simple model-driven configuration management,
 multi-node deployment, and remote task execution system. Ansible works
 over SSH and does not require any software or daemons to be installed
 on remote nodes. Extension modules can be written in any language and
 are transferred to managed machines automatically.

...
> I heard about "Ansible" and how it is supposed to make it easier to write
> installation scripts.

Correct spelling ;-)

I think use of ansible or any similar tool is not prerequisite of
"development".  It's a configuration management system.   It's a nice and
interesting tool I am thinking to learn but I don't use it yet.

You need C, Shell, Perl, Python, git, ... skills first for development.

Osamu

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#185504 — Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Just fixing the subject, for the benefit of search engines.

- -- t
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlmYVkcACgkQBcgs9XrR2kb7fACfcOsMgvXnd34Ch56vm0dFrHMk
iXQAnjK0rM6Gw9XkTGa2EGc8m550J2kc
=4CIk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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#185511 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

On 08/19/2017 11:16 AM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Just fixing the subject, for the benefit of search engines.
> 
> - -- t
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAlmYVkcACgkQBcgs9XrR2kb7fACfcOsMgvXnd34Ch56vm0dFrHMk
> iXQAnjK0rM6Gw9XkTGa2EGc8m550J2kc
> =4CIk
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Thank you. I'm sorry about the typo. I'll reply in this fixed thread.

On 08/19/2017 11:12 AM, Osamu Aoki wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 >
 >
 > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 07:01:03PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
 >> Please forgive my goofy questions. I am not really that well versed 
in CM
 >> (Configuration Management) and this post is really going to show it.
 >>
 >> Because this will more than likely be tltr (too long to read), I'll 
try to
 >> make it as fun as possible. Forgive if my humor is a bit strange.
 >>
 >> I noticed "Anible" isn't in the debian repos. Seems to be a Red Hat
 >> scripting engine for creating automated installs.
 >
 > Just a fact correction.
 >
 > I think you are mistyping.  Ansible is in the repo of Debian:

Thank you. I think that's why I couldn't find it - I mispelled it. :)

[snipped apt show info]

...

 > I think use of ansible or any similar tool is not prerequisite of
 > "development".  It's a configuration management system.   It's a nice
 > and interesting tool I am thinking to learn but I don't use it yet.

The biggest thing with me is my memory. In that if it takes too much to 
do a task (ie. Ansible taking several lines to make a directory vs. 
Python taking one line), then I tend to forget how things are done and 
it gets confusing.

 > You need C, Shell, Perl, Python, git, ... skills first for
 > development.

Great suggestions! Thank you. I do have some C programming skills but 
not that great. I can get around the CLI pretty well, I'm proficient 
with Perl, am learning Pythong. I had used git but I don't really have 
much to share (right now) and so I don't have an account anymore there. 
Most of my stuff is for my work, which doesn't really share stuff 
(though I could share my code if I wish). I'm not thinking of going into 
a side-hobby of programming. At work I manage a web server, and pretty 
much am more comfy with Perl and Bash and now Python. But I also want to 
be sure to keep up with the times, so to speak. So I wondered if other 
admins recommended Ansible as a "must have skill" or just optional.

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#185520 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

Hi,


On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 02:32:45PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
> ...
> 
> > I think use of ansible or any similar tool is not prerequisite of
> > "development".  It's a configuration management system.   It's a nice
> > and interesting tool I am thinking to learn but I don't use it yet.
> 
> The biggest thing with me is my memory. In that if it takes too much to do a
> task (ie. Ansible taking several lines to make a directory vs. Python taking
> one line), then I tend to forget how things are done and it gets confusing.
> 
> > You need C, Shell, Perl, Python, git, ... skills first for
> > development.
> 
> Great suggestions! Thank you. I do have some C programming skills but not
> that great. I can get around the CLI pretty well, I'm proficient with Perl,
> am learning Pythong. I had used git but I don't really have much to share
> (right now) and so I don't have an account anymore there. Most of my stuff
> is for my work, which doesn't really share stuff (though I could share my
> code if I wish). I'm not thinking of going into a side-hobby of programming.
> At work I manage a web server, and pretty much am more comfy with Perl and
> Bash and now Python. But I also want to be sure to keep up with the times,
> so to speak. So I wondered if other admins recommended Ansible as a "must
> have skill" or just optional.

You are now talking different things.  "developer" --> "admins"

If you are managing multiple servers as profession, you need to make such
process recorded and reproducible.  That's what configuration management
system is for and it is becoming one of the very basic tool to know.

Good luck.

Osamu

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#185536 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

On 08/19/2017 03:40 PM, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 02:32:45PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> I think use of ansible or any similar tool is not prerequisite of
>>> "development".  It's a configuration management system.   It's a nice
>>> and interesting tool I am thinking to learn but I don't use it yet.
>>
>> The biggest thing with me is my memory. In that if it takes too much to do a
>> task (ie. Ansible taking several lines to make a directory vs. Python taking
>> one line), then I tend to forget how things are done and it gets confusing.
>>
>>> You need C, Shell, Perl, Python, git, ... skills first for
>>> development.
>>
>> Great suggestions! Thank you. I do have some C programming skills but not
>> that great. I can get around the CLI pretty well, I'm proficient with Perl,
>> am learning Pythong. I had used git but I don't really have much to share
>> (right now) and so I don't have an account anymore there. Most of my stuff
>> is for my work, which doesn't really share stuff (though I could share my
>> code if I wish). I'm not thinking of going into a side-hobby of programming.
>> At work I manage a web server, and pretty much am more comfy with Perl and
>> Bash and now Python. But I also want to be sure to keep up with the times,
>> so to speak. So I wondered if other admins recommended Ansible as a "must
>> have skill" or just optional.
> 
> You are now talking different things.  "developer" --> "admins"
> 
> If you are managing multiple servers as profession, you need to make such
> process recorded and reproducible.  That's what configuration management
> system is for and it is becoming one of the very basic tool to know.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Osamu

I manage one server plus I have a test Virtual Machine I use on my 
computer to test things.

I also write scripts for the server to do some custom things we need to 
do. So I kind of do both things.

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#185528 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 02:32:45PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
> am learning Pythong.

Pythong, -the- language for digital wedgies.

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#185535 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

Zenaan Harkness wrote:

> Pythong, -the- language for digital wedgies.

haha " digital wedgies"!
you don't have to know python to use ansible
Actually YAML is more important for ansible

regards

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#185554 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 01:35:46AM +0200, deloptes wrote:
> Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> 
> > Pythong, -the- language for digital wedgies.
> 
> haha " digital wedgies"!
> you don't have to know python to use ansible
> Actually YAML is more important for ansible

I love YAML - it is hands down the best human-readable, yet concise
data markup type language out there, with support in lots of
programming languages.

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#185555 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

Zenaan Harkness wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 01:35:46AM +0200, deloptes wrote:
>> Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> 
>> > Pythong, -the- language for digital wedgies.
>> 
>> haha " digital wedgies"!
>> you don't have to know python to use ansible
>> Actually YAML is more important for ansible
> 
> I love YAML - it is hands down the best human-readable, yet concise
> data markup type language out there, with support in lots of
> programming languages.

meanwhile I do not have preferences. more important the work is done
cleanly, but yaml is at least easily readable.

regards

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#185702 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

On 08/19/2017 07:35 PM, deloptes wrote:
> Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> 
>> Pythong, -the- language for digital wedgies.
> 
> haha " digital wedgies"!
> you don't have to know python to use ansible
> Actually YAML is more important for ansible
> 
> regards

I always wanted to learn Python actually, and am learning it also for 
some work scripts I want to write.

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#185728 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

RavenLX wrote:

> I always wanted to learn Python actually, and am learning it also for
> some work scripts I want to write.

I started with PERL before python was out there and when it was out, I had a
look just to understand how it works.
It is good to know some scripting language to help you do some tasks.

Python became very powerful in the past years and knowing it better is
definitely of advantage

regards

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#185701 — Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

On 08/19/2017 05:52 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 02:32:45PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
>> am learning Pythong.
> 
> Pythong, -the- language for digital wedgies.

ROTFLMAO! I think my typing needs to go bak to schtool. :P (That time 
typos were on purpose - just a little added humor ;) ) Whenever I go 
writing a post that is quite long, I will have to remind myself to: a) 
Never write a long post when tired and b) Proofread the post. Maybe a 
little dose of c) TBP (Think Before Posting) would also help in my case.

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#185556

On 18-08-2017 20:01, RavenLX wrote:
> Please forgive my goofy questions. I am not really that well versed in
> CM (Configuration Management) and this post is really going to show it.
>
> [snip]

Note that Ansible is not the only CM software out there. Chef and Puppet
both have similar goals.


-- 
	Disneyworld: A maior ratoeira humana já construida por um
	rato.
		-- George S. Kaufman

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@kalinowski.com.br

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#185572

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

> Note that Ansible is not the only CM software out there. Chef and Puppet
> both have similar goals.

SALTSTACK as well

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