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Groups > linux.debian.user > #185161 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-08-14 11:50 +0200 |
| Last post | 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 144 — 27 participants |
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no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 11:50 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-14 13:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 13:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-14 13:40 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 13:50 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 18:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 23:20 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 14:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 15:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-14 15:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 15:50 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-14 16:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-14 16:40 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 18:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-14 17:30 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-14 18:20 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 12:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 22:10 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-08-19 23:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200
No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 12:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 14:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 15:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 15:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-08-15 16:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 16:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 19:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:30 +0200
Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 10:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 11:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-16 12:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-16 14:30 +0200
Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 16:20 +0200
Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-16 16:40 +0200
Re: Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> - 2017-08-16 17:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 22:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-08-15 22:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 04:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 09:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-15 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 16:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 17:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 04:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-15 20:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-15 16:40 +0200
No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-08-19 14:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 17:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 18:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-08-19 11:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 15:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-19 16:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 17:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 20:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 02:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-08-19 16:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Ansgar Burchardt <ansgar@debian.org> - 2017-08-20 12:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-08-21 15:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 16:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-20 14:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-08-20 14:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-20 17:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-21 05:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 06:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Zenaan Harkness <zenaan@freedbms.net> - 2017-08-19 23:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-08-20 02:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2017-08-20 14:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-21 07:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-21 15:00 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 15:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 17:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 18:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 19:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 19:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-21 20:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 21:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-22 17:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-08-22 17:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2017-08-21 17:30 +0200
No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 10:40 +0200
No ifconfig Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 10:20 +0200
Re: No ifconfig Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-08-21 17:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 19:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 20:10 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 20:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 03:40 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 21:30 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-16 03:50 +0200
Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-08-16 06:40 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 21:30 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-14 22:40 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-14 23:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-08-14 23:50 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-15 19:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-15 19:40 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-16 14:30 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-16 16:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 11:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-08-28 12:50 +0200
obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 08:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (was: no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-15 00:20 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 11:50 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2017-08-19 15:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 16:00 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 20:00 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-19 21:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-08-19 21:30 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-08-21 15:10 +0200
Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-08-21 16:30 +0200
obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-28 09:00 +0200
Re: no /etc/inittab Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-08-19 10:40 +0200
Page 2 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next page →
| From | Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 12:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ug8Rz-8sq-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185175 |
Joe: > Stretch? Systemd was default init for Jessie, the previous stable. > Worse, an upgrade of Wheezy to Jessie would actually change the init > system used, thus breaking almost every Debian server in the world. > Nicolas George: > I must be lucky, none of the servers that I handle broke because of that. > You are. Every single Debian 7 system with systemd that I upgraded to Debian 8 hit Debian Bug #774153, meaning that the upgrades did not complete unattended.
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 22:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ugied-5LF-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185485 |
On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 10:53:01 (+0100), Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > Joe: [ in https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/08/msg00700.html ] > > >Stretch? Systemd was default init for Jessie, the previous stable. > >Worse, an upgrade of Wheezy to Jessie would actually change the > >init system used, thus breaking almost every Debian server in the > >world. This describes wheezy/7/sysvinit → change of init → jessie/8/systemd. > Nicolas George: > > >I must be lucky, none of the servers that I handle broke because of that. And I had no problem with upgrading like that either. > You are. Every single Debian 7 system with systemd that I upgraded > to Debian 8 hit Debian Bug #774153, meaning that the upgrades did > not complete unattended. That is a different process with which I have no experience, never having bothered to run systemd on wheezy. It was advertised IIRC as a technology preview so I'm not sure it would be wise to have moved servers onto it. Cheers, David.
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-19 23:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ugj0C-617-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185522 |
On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 14:59:46 -0500 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 10:53:01 (+0100), Jonathan de Boyne Pollard > wrote: > > Joe: [ in > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/08/msg00700.html ] > > >Stretch? Systemd was default init for Jessie, the previous stable. > > >Worse, an upgrade of Wheezy to Jessie would actually change the > > >init system used, thus breaking almost every Debian server in the > > >world. > > This describes wheezy/7/sysvinit → change of init → jessie/8/systemd. > > > Nicolas George: > > > > >I must be lucky, none of the servers that I handle broke because > > >of that. > > And I had no problem with upgrading like that either. > > > You are. Every single Debian 7 system with systemd that I upgraded > > to Debian 8 hit Debian Bug #774153, meaning that the upgrades did > > not complete unattended. > > That is a different process with which I have no experience, never > having bothered to run systemd on wheezy. It was advertised IIRC > as a technology preview so I'm not sure it would be wise to have > moved servers onto it. > I don't think it actually did much, I never bothered investigating it. But sid of course had a developing version of it. I deliberately switched a mature and heavily-loaded sid to it and after a short struggle got it to boot. But it became very flaky, occasionally didn't boot, didn't shut down, and had other little foibles, so I did a get-selections, installed a new minimal stable (I think jessie was still testing then), upgraded to sid, added systemd then did the set-selections and full rebuild. I don't think all is as well as it might be, but it's OK. I think a machine really needs systemd right from installation to be maximally stable. -- Joe
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-14 16:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ueoxr-5fc-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185165 |
Erik Christiansen wrote: > Now, if that brings back ifconfig as well, I won't have to rummage about > finding which package that might be in. > $ dpkg -S /sbin/ifconfig net-tools: /sbin/ifconfig should be installed manually as it is no longer part of the base system ... and I thought I learned about systemd too late ... this made my day
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| From | Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 12:50 +0200 |
| Subject | No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueHA6-bQ-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185184 |
On 14.08.17 16:23, deloptes wrote: > Erik Christiansen wrote: > > > Now, if that brings back ifconfig as well, I won't have to rummage about > > finding which package that might be in. > > > > $ dpkg -S /sbin/ifconfig > net-tools: /sbin/ifconfig > > should be installed manually as it is no longer part of the base system > > ... and I thought I learned about systemd too late ... this made my day Many thanks, deloptes. You made mine, by returning an old friend. If it's no longer part of the base system, then perhaps the system is too base? Erik
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| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 14:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueIFP-RA-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185244 |
L'octidi 28 thermidor, an CCXXV, Erik Christiansen a écrit : > If it's no longer part of the base system, then perhaps the system is > too base? Please ellaborate. Why should ifconfig be part of the base system? Regards, -- Nicolas George
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| From | Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 15:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueJBV-1pV-45@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185251 |
On 15.08.17 13:33, Nicolas George wrote: > L'octidi 28 thermidor, an CCXXV, Erik Christiansen a écrit : > > If it's no longer part of the base system, then perhaps the system is > > too base? > > Please ellaborate. Why should ifconfig be part of the base system? With pleasure. It is the most basic and useful *nix networking tool, traditional since well back in the last millennium, spanning hp-ux, sunos, then solaris, and various linux distros, in my experience. Even if used mostly interrogatively these days, it is the quickest way to check how "eth0" is currently encrypted, what the IP address is, etc. It is not anything which needs to be added - we just need busybodies to refrain from taking it out. Granted, there's quite a bit of cruft taking up space, like NetworkMunger. I've been forced to wipe that from several Ubuntu versions in particular, as networking wouldn't function until I did. Everything has always been sweet once that was gone. Debian does seem to have it more under control, though, so I'll trade - leave both. Erik
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| From | Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 15:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueJLA-1Ix-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185253 |
On 15-08-17, Erik Christiansen wrote: > On 15.08.17 13:33, Nicolas George wrote: > > L'octidi 28 thermidor, an CCXXV, Erik Christiansen a écrit : > > > If it's no longer part of the base system, then perhaps the system is > > > too base? > > > > Please ellaborate. Why should ifconfig be part of the base system? > > With pleasure. It is the most basic and useful *nix networking tool, > traditional since well back in the last millennium, spanning hp-ux, > sunos, then solaris, and various linux distros, in my experience. Even > if used mostly interrogatively these days, it is the quickest way to > check how "eth0" is currently encrypted, what the IP address is, etc. It > is not anything which needs to be added - we just need busybodies to > refrain from taking it out. > > Granted, there's quite a bit of cruft taking up space, like > NetworkMunger. I've been forced to wipe that from several Ubuntu > versions in particular, as networking wouldn't function until I did. > Everything has always been sweet once that was gone. Debian does seem to > have it more under control, though, so I'll trade - leave both. > > Erik > And what exactly do you miss in ifconfig and net-tools package, that you can not do with ip, which is part of iproute2 package that comes as part of base system?
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| From | Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 15:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueK4W-1Pe-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185255 |
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 03:03:35PM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
> And what exactly do you miss in ifconfig and net-tools package, that you
> can not do with ip, which is part of iproute2 package that comes as part
> of base system?
What iproute2 and net-tools are BOTH missing is a sane, script-friendly,
user-controllable output format.
What iproute2 is specifically missing (as far as I can determine):
consistent option syntax, and any report analogous to "netstat -in":
wooledg:~$ netstat -in
Kernel Interface table
Iface MTU RX-OK RX-ERR RX-DRP RX-OVR TX-OK TX-ERR TX-DRP TX-OVR Flg
eth0 1500 8254258 0 0 0 7682795 0 0 0 BMRU
lo 65536 579959 0 0 0 579959 0 0 0 LRU
In a world where virtually every possible output of every reporting
command is atrociously hard to read, that one is the least bad. You can
actually get the interface names with only two reasonably simple parsing
operations (strip the first line, then strip everything from the first
whitespace to EOL).
The closest analog I've found in iproute2 is "ip link", which looks like:
wooledg:~$ ip link
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1
link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
link/ether a0:8c:fd:c3:89:e0 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
Parsing the interface names out of THAT is significantly harder.
The real tragedy is the missed opportunity. Linux developers wrote
iproute2 from scratch, but they failed to add any kind of user-specified
output format (cf. ps h -o ppid, find -printf %h, etc.), or to sit down
and THINK about how the user interface should be designed. Instead of
a clean, friendly, consistent, useful new tool we just got this weird
monstrosity that feels like someone decided to change things just because
they were bored one day, without any rhyme or reason or plan.
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| From | Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 16:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueKHE-2hj-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185256 |
On 15.08.17 09:29, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> wooledg:~$ netstat -in
> Kernel Interface table
> Iface MTU RX-OK RX-ERR RX-DRP RX-OVR TX-OK TX-ERR TX-DRP TX-OVR Flg
> eth0 1500 8254258 0 0 0 7682795 0 0 0 BMRU
> lo 65536 579959 0 0 0 579959 0 0 0 LRU
>
was compared with:
> wooledg:~$ ip link
> 1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1
> link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
> 2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
> link/ether a0:8c:fd:c3:89:e0 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
>
> Parsing the interface names out of THAT is significantly harder.
Yes, true, for a human that's indisputable. However, a first
off-the-cuff quickie does the trick machine-wise:
$ gawk '/^[0-9]:/ {print $2}' /tmp/mail
lo:
eth0:
So the situation is eminently remediable, I figure. Obviously the
first-cut snippet can easily be made more robust, but with known input,
there is no immediate need.
> The real tragedy is the missed opportunity. Linux developers wrote
> iproute2 from scratch, but they failed to add any kind of user-specified
> output format (cf. ps h -o ppid, find -printf %h, etc.), or to sit down
> and THINK about how the user interface should be designed. Instead of
> a clean, friendly, consistent, useful new tool we just got this weird
> monstrosity that feels like someone decided to change things just because
> they were bored one day, without any rhyme or reason or plan.
If the output remains unchanged, then a bit of awk¹ can easily extract
items of interest. Scripts break very badly, though, if the output
format is fiddled with after it has been in the wild for any extended
period.
But I'm drawn to the familiar per-interface ordered reporting of:
$ ifconfig -a
eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:27:21:a0:4f:1e
inet addr:192.168.1.2 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
inet6 addr: ee81::233:17ff:fea3:2f5e/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:573689 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:338733 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:800824302 (763.7 MiB) TX bytes:27874966 (26.5 MiB)
Interrupt:23 Base address:0xee00
lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1
RX packets:12551 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:12551 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:3328348 (3.1 MiB) TX bytes:3328348 (3.1 MiB)
That's highly amenable to both human and machine parsing, I submit.
Erik
¹ Yes, I've heard rumours of other text processing languages arising in
the latter years of the last millennium, but they're probably a
passing fad, I figure.
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| From | Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 16:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueKRj-2kD-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185256 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 09:29:37AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: >On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 03:03:35PM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote: >> And what exactly do you miss in ifconfig and net-tools package, that you >> can not do with ip, which is part of iproute2 package that comes as part >> of base system? > >What iproute2 and net-tools are BOTH missing is a sane, script-friendly, >user-controllable output format. Agreed. systemd's "journalctl" gets it right here - a human readable "short" output (admittedly, journalctl then goes overboard with the number of options for timestamps, but they ARE a thorny issue), a verbose output showing all the information and a json output which is MUCH more easily parsed by scripts (none of this "The third field from the left, except for the first line, which is a header" malarkey). > >What iproute2 is specifically missing (as far as I can determine): >consistent option syntax, and any report analogous to "netstat -in": > >wooledg:~$ netstat -in >Kernel Interface table >Iface MTU RX-OK RX-ERR RX-DRP RX-OVR TX-OK TX-ERR TX-DRP TX-OVR Flg >eth0 1500 8254258 0 0 0 7682795 0 0 0 BMRU >lo 65536 579959 0 0 0 579959 0 0 0 LRU > >In a world where virtually every possible output of every reporting >command is atrociously hard to read, that one is the least bad. You can >actually get the interface names with only two reasonably simple parsing >operations (strip the first line, then strip everything from the first >whitespace to EOL). > >The closest analog I've found in iproute2 is "ip link", which looks like: > >wooledg:~$ ip link >1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1 > link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00 >2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000 > link/ether a0:8c:fd:c3:89:e0 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff > >Parsing the interface names out of THAT is significantly harder. Have you looked at "ip -s link"? It's not quite as easy to parse as "netstat -in", but all the information's there. > >The real tragedy is the missed opportunity. Linux developers wrote >iproute2 from scratch, but they failed to add any kind of user-specified >output format (cf. ps h -o ppid, find -printf %h, etc.), or to sit down >and THINK about how the user interface should be designed. Instead of >a clean, friendly, consistent, useful new tool we just got this weird >monstrosity that feels like someone decided to change things just because >they were bored one day, without any rhyme or reason or plan. > util-linux is, arguably, going the right way here. libsmartcols[1] allows for some rather flexible output options: trees, tables, UTF8 handling, terminal-width truncation etc. [1] http://karelzak.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/libsmartcols-pretty-output-for-everyone.html -- For more information, please reread.
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| From | Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 16:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <ueLkm-2ya-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185265 |
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 03:14:02PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> Have you looked at "ip -s link"? It's not quite as easy to parse as "netstat
> -in", but all the information's there.
Actually, "ip -o link" is a step in the right direction:
wooledg:~$ ip -o link
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1\ link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000\ link/ether a0:8c:fd:c3:89:e0 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
Still requires multiple steps to extract the interface names (unless
you use awk, or some other language with wide field delimiters), and
still not as nice as ps h -o ppid "$pid", but I guess we won't ever get
anything nicer.
wooledg:~$ ip -o link | awk -F": " '{print $2}'
lo
eth0
The only other scripting language I know that can do splitting with
multi-character separators is perl.
wooledg:~$ ip -o link | perl -ne '@x=split(/: /); print $x[1], "\n"'
lo
eth0
Bash and Tcl can't do it, at least not with their native toolsets.
I don't know python or ruby or any others.
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| From | Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 18:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ueMT8-3Ar-25@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185267 |
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> ip -o link | awk -F": " '{print $2}'
and even shorter:
ip -o link | cut -d : -f 2
BTW, I suggest to abandon, in the subject, the reference to the
OP's subject ("was ..."), as this thread has really
nothing to do with inittab stuff
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| From | Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 19:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ueNm9-3Lx-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185278 |
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 06:24:42PM +0200, Pierre Frenkiel wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2017, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
> > ip -o link | awk -F": " '{print $2}'
>
> and even shorter:
> ip -o link | cut -d : -f 2
They are not equivalent. Yours leaves extra whitespace.
wooledg:~$ ip -o link | cut -d : -f 2 | hd
00000000 20 6c 6f 0a 20 65 74 68 30 0a | lo. eth0.|
0000000a
wooledg:~$ ip -o link | awk -F": " '{print $2}' | hd
00000000 6c 6f 0a 65 74 68 30 0a |lo.eth0.|
00000008
So, to use the output of yours, an additional step would be needed
(whitespace trimming).
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| From | Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 19:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ueNFw-48q-37@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185282 |
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 06:24:42PM +0200, Pierre Frenkiel wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2017, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>>
>>> ip -o link | awk -F": " '{print $2}'
>>
>> and even shorter:
>> ip -o link | cut -d : -f 2
>
> They are not equivalent. Yours leaves extra whitespace.
>
> wooledg:~$ ip -o link | cut -d : -f 2 | hd
> 00000000 20 6c 6f 0a 20 65 74 68 30 0a | lo. eth0.|
> 0000000a
> wooledg:~$ ip -o link | awk -F": " '{print $2}' | hd
> 00000000 6c 6f 0a 65 74 68 30 0a |lo.eth0.|
> 00000008
>
> So, to use the output of yours, an additional step would be needed
> (whitespace trimming).
>
If it's to list the interface names, I don't see why the leading space is
annoying.
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-15 20:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig |
| Message-ID | <ueOLg-4NY-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185289 |
On Tue 15 Aug 2017 at 19:13:54 (+0200), Pierre Frenkiel wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2017, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
> >On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 06:24:42PM +0200, Pierre Frenkiel wrote:
> >>On Tue, 15 Aug 2017, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> >>
> >>>ip -o link | awk -F": " '{print $2}'
> >>
> >> and even shorter:
> >> ip -o link | cut -d : -f 2
> >
> >They are not equivalent. Yours leaves extra whitespace.
> >
> >wooledg:~$ ip -o link | cut -d : -f 2 | hd
> >00000000 20 6c 6f 0a 20 65 74 68 30 0a | lo. eth0.|
> >0000000a
> >wooledg:~$ ip -o link | awk -F": " '{print $2}' | hd
> >00000000 6c 6f 0a 65 74 68 30 0a |lo.eth0.|
> >00000008
> >
> >So, to use the output of yours, an additional step would be needed
> >(whitespace trimming).
> >
> If it's to list the interface names, I don't see why the leading space is
> annoying.
I assume then that you wrote your recipe just for our
entertainment. An error like that can waste a lot of time
when a non-trivial script produces unexpected results.
Cheers,
David.
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| From | Clive Standbridge <list-user@tgstandbridges.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-16 10:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <uf1p9-4gv-41@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185267 |
> wooledg:~$ ip -o link | awk -F": " '{print $2}'
> lo
> eth0
>
> The only other scripting language I know that can do splitting with
> multi-character separators is perl.
>
> wooledg:~$ ip -o link | perl -ne '@x=split(/: /); print $x[1], "\n"'
> lo
> eth0
>
> Bash and Tcl can't do it, at least not with their native toolsets.
Bash can, e.g.
$ oldIFS="$IFS"; IFS=': '; ip -o link | while read num interface other; do declare -p interface; done; IFS="$oldIFS"
declare -- interface="lo"
declare -- interface="eth0"
declare -- interface="br0"
declare -- interface="vethJWC4DL"
--
Cheers,
Clive
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-16 11:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <uf2lc-4Su-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185331 |
On Wednesday 16 August 2017 03:28:43 Clive Standbridge wrote: > oldIFS="$IFS"; IFS=': '; ip -o link | while read num interface other; > do declare -p interface; done; IFS="$oldIFS" Now thats an interesting bit of bashism, and deeper into it than I have waded. But for this local network, I know what they are so I can't think of a situation that would make me use it. But it may well be useful in the future, so the message is marked to protect it from the expiry rules. Thank you Clive. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-16 12:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <uf3hg-5r5-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185336 |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 04:58:24AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 16 August 2017 03:28:43 Clive Standbridge wrote:
>
> > oldIFS="$IFS"; IFS=': '; ip -o link | while read num interface other;
> > do declare -p interface; done; IFS="$oldIFS"
>
> Now thats an interesting bit of bashism, and deeper into it than I have
> waded. But for this local network, I know what they are so I can't think
> of a situation that would make me use it. But it may well be useful in
> the future, so the message is marked to protect it from the expiry
> rules.
Nice idiomatic little script.
Changing the input field separator (IFS) to parse lines is actually a
shell classic and should work on most shells (I just tested with dash),
The "declare", OTOH, is pretty Bashist. But it can be replaced by
a simple "echo":
This should be more portable (at least across the Bourne family):
oldIFS="$IFS"; IFS=': '; ip -o link | while read num interface other;
do echo "$interface"; done; IFS="$oldIFS"
Cheers
- -- tomás
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAlmUFy4ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kaO0gCePvWrmGWeOv8KNGjLrrI2o2GO
cZ4An1lJ/2IVkGKF4Gc/nfyVa/0vV75M
=nic4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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| From | Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-08-16 14:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: No ifconfig [Was: no /etc/inittab] |
| Message-ID | <uf5Cq-70D-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #185338 |
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 11:58:06AM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> oldIFS="$IFS"; IFS=': '; ip -o link | while read num interface other;
> do echo "$interface"; done; IFS="$oldIFS"
ip -o link | while IFS=' :' read -r _ i _; do echo "<$i>"; done
There's no need to set IFS globally and then attempt to restore it,
especially since "restoring" it fails if it was previously unset.
Just set it for the duration of the read command.
The alternative is to make IFS local, within a function:
foo() {
local IFS=' :'
ip -o link | while read -r _ i _; do echo "<$i>"; done
}
foo
But once again, this is overkill, when IFS only needs to be modified in
the execution environment of the read command. (Also less portable,
because POSIX shell functions don't necessarily have "local".)
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