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Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS

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  Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-11-10 17:00 +0100
    Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2017-11-10 17:10 +0100
      Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-11-10 17:40 +0100
        Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2017-11-10 17:50 +0100
          Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-11-10 18:10 +0100
      Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-11-11 21:20 +0100
    Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-11-10 19:50 +0100
      Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-11-10 21:30 +0100
    Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2017-11-10 20:20 +0100
      Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2017-11-10 21:00 +0100
      Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-11-10 21:40 +0100
    Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-11-10 20:30 +0100
      Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-11-10 21:40 +0100
        Re: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS Gary Roach <gary719_list1@verizon.net> - 2017-11-11 00:00 +0100
        Debian-capable NAS with free software and hardware (was: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS) Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-11-11 00:10 +0100

#188845 — Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS

	Dear list.

I've read recent 'Anyone using stretch/buster/sid on ARMv4t' and 'Wanted
- a Debian handheld' threads, and decided to ask you all for an advice.

I have this QNAP TS-412 box that runs Debian for several years with
small downtimes and it works beautifully. But, the thing starts to show
its age.

What I'm looking for is a suitable replacement with the following
treats:

- Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
- Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
- Gigabit Ethernet.
- 4 SATA disk slots.
- I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.

All suggestions are welcome.

Reco

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#188847

On 2017-11-11 01:57, Reco wrote:
> Dear list.
> 
> I've read recent 'Anyone using stretch/buster/sid on ARMv4t' and 'Wanted
> - a Debian handheld' threads, and decided to ask you all for an advice.
> 
> I have this QNAP TS-412 box that runs Debian for several years with
> small downtimes and it works beautifully. But, the thing starts to show
> its age.
> 
> What I'm looking for is a suitable replacement with the following
> treats:
> 
> - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
> - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
> - Gigabit Ethernet.
> - 4 SATA disk slots.
> - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.
> 
> All suggestions are welcome.

Price range?

-- 
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its 
government."
 -- Thomas Paine

Registered Linux User: 554515

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#188849

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 08:07:31AM -0800, Weaver wrote:
> On 2017-11-11 01:57, Reco wrote:
> > Dear list.
> > 
> > I've read recent 'Anyone using stretch/buster/sid on ARMv4t' and 'Wanted
> > - a Debian handheld' threads, and decided to ask you all for an advice.
> > 
> > I have this QNAP TS-412 box that runs Debian for several years with
> > small downtimes and it works beautifully. But, the thing starts to show
> > its age.
> > 
> > What I'm looking for is a suitable replacement with the following
> > treats:
> > 
> > - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
> > - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
> > - Gigabit Ethernet.
> > - 4 SATA disk slots.
> > - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.
> > 
> > All suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Price range?

<= $500

Reco

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#188850

On 2017-11-11 02:38, Reco wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 08:07:31AM -0800, Weaver wrote:
>> On 2017-11-11 01:57, Reco wrote:
>> > Dear list.
>> >
>> > I've read recent 'Anyone using stretch/buster/sid on ARMv4t' and 'Wanted
>> > - a Debian handheld' threads, and decided to ask you all for an advice.
>> >
>> > I have this QNAP TS-412 box that runs Debian for several years with
>> > small downtimes and it works beautifully. But, the thing starts to show
>> > its age.
>> >
>> > What I'm looking for is a suitable replacement with the following
>> > treats:
>> >
>> > - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
>> > - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
>> > - Gigabit Ethernet.
>> > - 4 SATA disk slots.
>> > - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.
>> >
>> > All suggestions are welcome.
>>
>> Price range?
> 
> <= $500

Just thought I'd ask, but considering life, these might still be worth
considering:

https://www.ixsystems.com/freenas-mini/

-- 
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its 
government."
 -- Thomas Paine

Registered Linux User: 554515

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#188851

	Hi.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 08:48:23AM -0800, Weaver wrote:
> On 2017-11-11 02:38, Reco wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 08:07:31AM -0800, Weaver wrote:
> >> On 2017-11-11 01:57, Reco wrote:
> >> > Dear list.
> >> >
> >> > I've read recent 'Anyone using stretch/buster/sid on ARMv4t' and 'Wanted
> >> > - a Debian handheld' threads, and decided to ask you all for an advice.
> >> >
> >> > I have this QNAP TS-412 box that runs Debian for several years with
> >> > small downtimes and it works beautifully. But, the thing starts to show
> >> > its age.
> >> >
> >> > What I'm looking for is a suitable replacement with the following
> >> > treats:
> >> >
> >> > - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
> >> > - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
> >> > - Gigabit Ethernet.
> >> > - 4 SATA disk slots.
> >> > - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.
> >> >
> >> > All suggestions are welcome.
> >>
> >> Price range?
> > 
> > <= $500
> 
> Just thought I'd ask, but considering life, these might still be worth
> considering:
> 
> https://www.ixsystems.com/freenas-mini/

Thanks. Interesting thing (ZFS out-the-box, no less), but '8-Core 2.4GHz
Intel CPU with AES-NI' (as datasheet puts it) violates my 'non-x86'
criteria.

Way too much power consumption (datasheet states 37-47 Watts), and don't
get me started on inevitable Intel ME.

What I'm looking for is more like Seagate SRPD40, QNAP TS-421U, but
newer.

Reco

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#188890

>> What I'm looking for is a suitable replacement with the following
>> treats:
>>
>> - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
>> - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
>> - Gigabit Ethernet.
>> - 4 SATA disk slots.
>> - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.
>>
>> All suggestions are welcome.

If you're concerned about power consumption and disk speed and have a
PCIe connector in the box, give some consideration to the M.2 'disks'.
In the PCIe connector, they're vastly faster than any SATA (no SATA
bus bottleneck), and they use very little power. I'm using a 500G for
the system disk. They come in several flavors, so there's a bit of a
learning curve to figure them out.

You can put SATAs in the SATA slots and mount them as poky
whirling-rust bit buckets. But big and inexpensive buckets.

Just make sure the BIOS knows how to boot from the PCIe. Mine didn't,
and it took a little *nix trickery to get the 'disk' going.

--
Glenn English

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#188855

On Friday, November 10, 2017 10:57:18 AM Reco wrote:
> - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.

I'm curious, what is your objection to x86--is it power usage, or (maybe) less 
security than a non-x86 platform, or something else?

And, for extra credit, what's the problem / story on the kirkwood ARM?

Thanks!

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#188863

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 01:44:32PM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, November 10, 2017 10:57:18 AM Reco wrote:
> > - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
> 
> I'm curious, what is your objection to x86--is it power usage, or (maybe) less 
> security than a non-x86 platform, or something else?

Current NAS lived 6.5 hours on UPS power once. That's with HDD power
management disabled.
Show me x86-64 solution that can do the same.


> And, for extra credit, what's the problem / story on the kirkwood ARM?

SATA speed is OK, but not stellar - 12.5 Mbps / 1200 IOPS on sequential
read from RAID5.
Advertized Gigabit ethernet is in fact 400 Mbps, but I can live with
that (see above).
CPU speed is horrid. You can forget running anything that's even python
(includes iotop), let alone something CPU hungry (CUPS, java, etc).
Amount of RAM is tiny by today's standards - 256Mb.

Last, but not least - they plan to ditch ARM4 in Debian (unless they did
it already). Kirkwood is ARM5.

Reco

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#188856

On 11/10/17 07:57, Reco wrote:
> I have this QNAP TS-412 box ...
> [and] I'm looking for [a] replacement with the following treats:
> 
> - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
> - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.

CPU -- number of cores, number of bits, frequency, power saving 
features, cryptographic acceleration, random number acceleration, other?


Memory -- slots, module type, form factor, capacity, speed, ECC, 
ranking, other?


> - Gigabit Ethernet.

Quantity?  Aggregation?


> - 4 SATA disk slots.

SATA 1/2/3/3.x?


Internal or external?  Cabled, trayed, trayless, other?


Drive form factor, height, capacity, performance (RPM, seek time, 
latency, IOPS, power consumption, other), other?


Optical drive(s), system drive(s), L2ARC(s), ZIL(s), other?


> - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.

Chassis material (steel, aluminum, plastic, other), finish (paint, 
anodized, raw, other?), size limits, weight limits, fans, noise, other?


On 11/10/17 08:38, Reco wrote:
 > [Price range?]  <= $500


On 11/10/17 09:01, Reco wrote:
 > power consumption ... [less than] 37-47 Watts


Expansion card slots -- quantity, type (PCI, PCI-X, PCIe, other), 
height, depth, other?


Internal or external power supply?


Overall performance requirements -- capacity, throughput, latency, 
other?  Now?  Next several years?


Lifetime?


Remote management?  When powered down?


Other?


Please sort the requirements into a list by priority, with the highest 
priority requirement at the top and the lowest priority requirement at 
the bottom.


David

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#188860

On 11/10/17 11:17, David Christensen wrote:
> Remote management?  When powered down?
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Correction:  When in ACPI S1-S5 states?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface


David

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#188865

	Hi.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 11:17:14AM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> On 11/10/17 07:57, Reco wrote:
> > I have this QNAP TS-412 box ...
> > [and] I'm looking for [a] replacement with the following treats:
> > 
> > - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
> > - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
> 
> CPU -- number of cores, number of bits, frequency, power saving features,
> cryptographic acceleration, random number acceleration, other?

Irrelevant. Crypto accelerator could be nice though.


> Memory -- slots, module type, form factor, capacity, speed, ECC, ranking,
> other?

512Mb minimum.


> > - Gigabit Ethernet.
> 
> Quantity?  Aggregation?

At least one. No amount of bonding will allow me to exceed Cat5e
limitations, and fault tolerance is not a factor here.


> > - 4 SATA disk slots.
> 
> SATA 1/2/3/3.x?

SATA 2 at least.


> Internal or external?  Cabled, trayed, trayless, other?

Internal, trayed.


> Drive form factor, height, capacity, performance (RPM, seek time, latency,
> IOPS, power consumption, other), other?

Form factor is 3.5''. And of course I'll purchase drives separately.


> Optical drive(s), system drive(s), L2ARC(s), ZIL(s), other?

N/a. I need conventional 4-bay home NAS without extras.


> > - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.
> 
> Chassis material (steel, aluminum, plastic, other), finish (paint, anodized,
> raw, other?), size limits, weight limits, fans, noise, other?

Chassis material is irrelevant, size should not exceed standard 1U,
weight should not exceed 10 lbs (without HDDs).


> On 11/10/17 08:38, Reco wrote:
> > [Price range?]  <= $500
> 
> 
> On 11/10/17 09:01, Reco wrote:
> > power consumption ... [less than] 37-47 Watts
> 
> 
> Expansion card slots -- quantity, type (PCI, PCI-X, PCIe, other), height,
> depth, other?

None. 


> Internal or external power supply?

External.


> Overall performance requirements -- capacity, throughput, latency, other?
> Now?  Next several years?

Capacity - 4 Tb.
Thoughtput - 30-40 Mb/s.
Latency - 20 ms is tolerable.
IOPS - 1200.

I'm not planning on SSDs, so these should be achieved easily.


> Lifetime?

3-4 years.


> Remote management?  When powered down?

No. That's strict no.
The only kind of out-of-band management I use is old trusty RS-232.
So no iLO or equivalent.


> Other?

n/a

Reco

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#188857

Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> writes:

> What I'm looking for is a suitable replacement with the following
> treats:
>
> - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
> - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
> - Gigabit Ethernet.
> - 4 SATA disk slots.
> - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.

The GnuBee PC-1 is already available
<URL:https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-1/>.

The GnuBee PC-2 is being crowd-funded now (until 2017-11-30)
<URL:https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-2/>.

Both meet your criteria I believe, as well as being open hardware
designs and have only free software requirements.

Buy the former if you want one now. Fund the latter if you want 3.5-inch
drives.

-- 
 \           “I do not believe in forgiveness as it is preached by the |
  `\        church. We do not need the forgiveness of God, but of each |
_o__)                    other and of ourselves.” —Robert G. Ingersoll |
Ben Finney

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#188864

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 06:25:01AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > What I'm looking for is a suitable replacement with the following
> > treats:
> >
> > - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
> > - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
> > - Gigabit Ethernet.
> > - 4 SATA disk slots.
> > - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.
> 
> The GnuBee PC-1 is already available
> <URL:https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-1/>.
> 
> The GnuBee PC-2 is being crowd-funded now (until 2017-11-30)
> <URL:https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-2/>.
> 
> Both meet your criteria I believe, as well as being open hardware
> designs and have only free software requirements.
> 
> Buy the former if you want one now. Fund the latter if you want 3.5-inch
> drives.

Terrific, thanks.

I'll wait for 3.5'' one, maybe pledge something.

Reco

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#188868

On 11/10/2017 12:32 PM, Reco wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 06:25:01AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> What I'm looking for is a suitable replacement with the following
>>> treats:
>>>
>>> - Able to run Debian, stock kernel is strongly preferred.
>>> - Non-x86, and I don't need another kirkwood ARM.
>>> - Gigabit Ethernet.
>>> - 4 SATA disk slots.
>>> - I don't care whenever it's a box or a rack mount.
>>
>> The GnuBee PC-1 is already available
>> <URL:https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-1/>.
>>
>> The GnuBee PC-2 is being crowd-funded now (until 2017-11-30)
>> <URL:https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-2/>.
>>
>> Both meet your criteria I believe, as well as being open hardware
>> designs and have only free software requirements.
>>
>> Buy the former if you want one now. Fund the latter if you want 3.5-inch
>> drives.
> 
> Terrific, thanks.
> 
> I'll wait for 3.5'' one, maybe pledge something.
> 
> Reco
> 
> 
I recently upgraded one of my boxes after a mother board failure. I did 
a fair amount of research and came up with the following:
	MSI1970A-G43 motherboard (very reasonably priced)
	AMD Athlon FX4350 4 core CPU
It's fast and handles Debian very well. I don't remember how much I 
paid, but it was reasonable. I also had to add an above board, cheep, 
graphics card ($45). While not too expensive, this is a gamers board and 
can be overclocked. There are 6 Sata slots and room for 16Gb memory. Has 
a nice BIOS screen. They have dropped IDE connectors. So if you have IDE 
drives you will need IDE to Sata adapters.

Hope this helps

GAry R

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#188869 — Debian-capable NAS with free software and hardware (was: Wanted - a Debian SOHO NAS)

Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 06:25:01AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> > The GnuBee PC-2 is being crowd-funded now (until 2017-11-30)
> > <URL:https://www.crowdsupply.com/gnubee/personal-cloud-2/>.
>
> Terrific, thanks.
>
> I'll wait for 3.5'' one, maybe pledge something.

The crowd-fund campaign ends soon for the GnuBee PC-2, so anyone who
wants one should pledge now. It'll be cheaper than waiting.

I've booked mine :-)

-- 
 \        “Odious ideas are not entitled to hide from criticism behind |
  `\       the human shield of their believers' feelings.” —Richard M. |
_o__)                                                         Stallman |
Ben Finney

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