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Handhelds that conviently run Debian

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  Handhelds that conviently run Debian Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-11-08 15:00 +0100
    Re: Handhelds that conviently run Debian Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2017-11-08 15:20 +0100
      Re: Handhelds that conviently run Debian Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-11-08 15:50 +0100
    Re: ~ Handhelds that conviently run Debian Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-11-08 16:20 +0100
      Re: ~ Handhelds that conviently run Debian Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-11-08 16:50 +0100
    Re: Handhelds that conviently run Debian David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-11-08 17:40 +0100
      Re: Handhelds that conviently run Debian Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-11-08 19:50 +0100
      Re: Handhelds that conviently run Debian Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-11-09 02:40 +0100
        Re: Handhelds that conviently run Debian Frank Weißer <linux@weisser-ol.de> - 2017-11-09 08:40 +0100
          Re: Handhelds that conviently run Debian David Baron <dbaron770@gmail.com> - 2017-11-09 09:20 +0100
            Re: Handhelds that conviently run Debian Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-11-09 15:30 +0100
            Re: Handhelds that conviently run Debian David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-11-09 15:50 +0100
    Re: Handhelds that conviently run Debian deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-11-08 22:20 +0100

#188746 — Handhelds that conviently run Debian

On a regional mailing list I had described what I'm looking for as a 
tablet. That seems to include things that fold.  Although I *DON'T* want 
a "smartphone", that physical form factor is desirable. It must be 
available as "new" from a U.S. retailer.

I have a preference for x86 processors, that is not a requirement.
I would like to use with a USB keyboard.
It will be used for simple data collection and data will be transferred 
to home system primarily via a USB flash drive.

I suspect I've some unrecognized assumptions.
Suggestions please.
TIA

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#188747

On Wed, Nov 08, 2017 at 07:50:21AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On a regional mailing list I had described what I'm looking for as a tablet.
> That seems to include things that fold.  Although I *DON'T* want a
> "smartphone", that physical form factor is desirable. It must be available
> as "new" from a U.S. retailer.
> 
> I have a preference for x86 processors, that is not a requirement.
> I would like to use with a USB keyboard.
> It will be used for simple data collection and data will be transferred to
> home system primarily via a USB flash drive.
> 
> I suspect I've some unrecognized assumptions.
> Suggestions please.

You might be looking for a palmtop or a netbook. A palmtop is an
ultra-mini laptop with a keyboard, screen, storage and I/O. A
netbook is simply a small, low-powered laptop.

https://medium.com/@tomac/qpd-pocket-7-the-return-of-the-hacker-netbook-fe9be1b02ebf

and

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/

describe current Linux-running palmtops.

For a netbook, you can get a Chromebook (frequently under $250)
and read the various install guides to get Debian on instead of
the Chrome Linux system.

-dsr-

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#188748

On 11/08/2017 08:15 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 08, 2017 at 07:50:21AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On a regional mailing list I had described what I'm looking for as a tablet.
>> That seems to include things that fold.  Although I *DON'T* want a
>> "smartphone", that physical form factor is desirable. It must be available
>> as "new" from a U.S. retailer.
>>
>> I have a preference for x86 processors, that is not a requirement.
>> I would like to use with a USB keyboard.
>> It will be used for simple data collection and data will be transferred to
>> home system primarily via a USB flash drive.
>>
>> I suspect I've some unrecognized assumptions.
>> Suggestions please.
>
> You might be looking for a palmtop or a netbook. A palmtop is an
> ultra-mini laptop with a keyboard, screen, storage and I/O. A
> netbook is simply a small, low-powered laptop.
>

I'm not looking for anything with a keyboard as part of the unit.
The possibility for using a separate full size USB connected keyboard is 
desirable.
Think Palm Pilot updated to current technology.

Thank you.

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#188751 — Re: ~ Handhelds that conviently run Debian

On Wed, Nov 08, 2017 at 07:50:21AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
>I have a preference for x86 processors, that is not a requirement.
>I would like to use with a USB keyboard.
>It will be used for simple data collection and data will be 
>transferred to home system primarily via a USB flash drive.

A possibly DIY answer is a Raspberry Pi 3, or Zero W, and a suitable
case and battery for it.

-- 

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

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#188754 — Re: ~ Handhelds that conviently run Debian

On 11/08/2017 09:12 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 08, 2017 at 07:50:21AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I have a preference for x86 processors, that is not a requirement.
>> I would like to use with a USB keyboard.
>> It will be used for simple data collection and data will be
>> transferred to home system primarily via a USB flash drive.
>
> A possibly DIY answer is a Raspberry Pi 3, or Zero W, and a suitable
> case and battery for it.
>

I don't fit the mechanical DIY category well.
I want an off-the-shelf product that can be used as recieved.
No real problem doing a custom install.

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#188756

On Wed 08 Nov 2017 at 07:50:21 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On a regional mailing list I had described what I'm looking for as a
> tablet. That seems to include things that fold.  Although I *DON'T*
> want a "smartphone", that physical form factor is desirable. It must
> be available as "new" from a U.S. retailer.
> 
> I have a preference for x86 processors, that is not a requirement.
> I would like to use with a USB keyboard.
> It will be used for simple data collection and data will be
> transferred to home system primarily via a USB flash drive.
> 
> I suspect I've some unrecognized assumptions.
> Suggestions please.
> TIA

If you want a smartphone but don't want a smartphone, it sounds to me
as if you want a smartphone with no SIM card. It's possible that this
device will still be able to dial 911: my Galaxy 4 claims to be able
to do that, though understandably it's not something I've tested.
("They" still come out even if you hang up right away.)

If it's being tracked that you're worried about, then put it in
Airplane mode to prevent that. (Unfortunately that stops the FM radio
in the Galaxy from working, but not the music/video players.) And,
of course, you can always keep it turned off when not actually
collecting the data.

Cheers,
David.

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#188761

On 11/08/2017 09:34 AM, David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 08 Nov 2017 at 07:50:21 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On a regional mailing list I had described what I'm looking for as a
>> tablet. That seems to include things that fold.  Although I *DON'T*
>> want a "smartphone", that physical form factor is desirable. It must
>> be available as "new" from a U.S. retailer.
>>
>> I have a preference for x86 processors, that is not a requirement.
>> I would like to use with a USB keyboard.
>> It will be used for simple data collection and data will be
>> transferred to home system primarily via a USB flash drive.
>>
>> I suspect I've some unrecognized assumptions.
>> Suggestions please.
>> TIA
>
> If you want a smartphone but don't want a smartphone, it sounds to me
> as if you want a smartphone with no SIM card.

I didn't know that was still possible. A few years ago a local Staples 
had smartphones of one manufacturer [Lenovo ????] in 3 flavors - with 
SIM, without SIM, and without possibility of installing a SIM card. The 
last was attractively priced [wasn't sure if that was a promotional 
gimmick or factory seconds]. I bought one of the later.

That convinced me to NEVER consider an Android device for many reasons:
1. The hype at the time was that Android was Linux and thus FOSS.
    *NOT*!
    It was supposed to be "free" in the sense of "free speech".
    There is no logical grounds to not pay for value delivered.
    I was paying for a physical device and should be able to use it.
2. The DCMA was used as specious justification for obstructing OWNERS
    from freely using and modifying their personal property. If a SIM
    card could be eventually installed there would be a possible
    justification for preventing a purchaser from using/modifying the
    device in desired manner.
3. At the time Google had an effective monopoly of "free"[*sic*]
    software. It may have been free of immediate monetary cost, *BUT*
    they required you to yield personally identifiable information to
    have access to "free"[*SIC*] software.

> It's possible that this
> device will still be able to dial 911: my Galaxy 4 claims to be able
> to do that, though understandably it's not something I've tested.
> ("They" still come out even if you hang up right away.)

*LOL* I've been a beneficiary of that possibility.

>
> If it's being tracked that you're worried about, then put it in
> Airplane mode to prevent that. (Unfortunately that stops the FM radio
> in the Galaxy from working, but not the music/video players.)

That type of privacy is not a major issue.
Having held a Commercial Radiotelephone Operator's license ~50 years 
ago, I have no particular problem with restricting who can create havoc 
on the airwaves.


> And,
> of course, you can always keep it turned off when not actually
> collecting the data.

No problem. "Airplane mode" and "turning off" extends battery life.
Not aware of any downside.

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#188793

> If you want a smartphone but don't want a smartphone, it sounds to me
> as if you want a smartphone with no SIM card. It's possible that this

Indeed.  I was looking for a "modern walkman" and the best and cheapest
option nowadays is to get a smartphone for that (and simply not use the
phone part).

Clearly, you'll want to have some control over this device, which is the
tricky part, since most vendors want to keep the control to themselves.

There are several options:
- Install some "unpriviledged" Debian subsystem.
  There are several packages doing that in the Google Play store, such
  as GNURoot.
  I only use F-Droid rather than Google's store and they don't seem to
  be in there, and when I tried GNURoot "by hand" I wasn't able to make
  it work on my device.
- Get root access and install a more normal Debian subsystem, such as
  Lil'Debi.  Beware: in my experience with current versions of Android
  it's common that even root access doesn't give you enough rights to
  make those packages work.
- Install LineageOS.
- Install Replicant.

For the last 2 options, you can check what are the supported devices
(they tend to be fairly old, but you might be able to find them on ebay
for a good price).


        Stefan

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#188803

Stefan Monnier:
> - Install LineageOS.

It works fine on my wileyfox swift, still with playground (I was 
unsecure at the first try), but the next device is already waiting for 
pure version of> https://lineageos.org/

without that google stuff. I use fdroid > f-droid.org

instead or raccoon > http://raccoon.onyxbits.de/

if necessary.

readU
Frank

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#188804

I have had Debian up on my Xiamo smartphone. I believe it uses the existing 
kernel. Had a xwindows as well but did not like the interface. In the end, 
question was what to do with it.

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#188813

> I have had Debian up on my Xiamo smartphone. I believe it uses the existing
> kernel. Had a xwindows as well but did not like the interface. In the end,
> question was what to do with it.

One of the first things I do with a Debian install on those devices:
run an sshd daemon which lets me rsyncd *to* it from my home
server (there are many other sync tools, but they pretty much all
require you sets the server to accept incoming connections from your
portable device, which I find to be a security risk).


        Stefan

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#188814

On Thu 09 Nov 2017 at 10:17:12 (+0200), David Baron wrote:
> I have had Debian up on my Xiamo smartphone. I believe it uses the existing 
> kernel. Had a xwindows as well but did not like the interface. In the end, 
> question was what to do with it.

Debian on a phone isn't my priority, but this Galaxy 4 (£25
Carphone Warehouse PAYG upgrade) is in constant use: Night clock
(large digits), alarm clock (overrides the earpiece), MP3 player
(and get-iplayer downloads), video player, camera, video camera,
voice recorder, picture book, PDF reader and FM radio (with a
sleep shutoff, so it's usually hard at work beyond my waking day).
And because the Debian bluetooth support can be flaky, I sometimes
use it for bluetooth transfers from my flip phone (a sealed device)
to its 32GB SD card.

So there's a few things to be going along with…

Cheers,
David.

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#188777

Richard Owlett wrote:

> On a regional mailing list I had described what I'm looking for as a
> tablet. That seems to include things that fold.  Although I *DON'T* want
> a "smartphone", that physical form factor is desirable. It must be
> available as "new" from a U.S. retailer.
> 
> I have a preference for x86 processors, that is not a requirement.
> I would like to use with a USB keyboard.
> It will be used for simple data collection and data will be transferred
> to home system primarily via a USB flash drive.
> 
> I suspect I've some unrecognized assumptions.
> Suggestions please.

there are various small factor and mini pcs, industrial pcs as well. What I
don't understand is if you want to have a screen attached or embedded.

some 10y ago I bought Acrosser with Geode, Raspberry and alike is definitely
an option.
Recently I'm playing with SailfishOS on Sony Xperia X, I also bought Intex
AquaFish and I'm using Nokia N9 as primary phone.

>From what I've seen you can't easily find something handheld where you can
plug a usb - don't know because of size or power.
Also those mini pcs with SoC for the public are lame IMO, but good change
that it would run debian

https://www.linux.com/news/five-best-linux-powered-mini-computers

regards

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