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Groups > linux.debian.user > #188193 > unrolled thread

Why does resolv.conf keep changing?

Started byRoberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org>
First post2017-10-23 04:20 +0200
Last post2017-10-25 16:20 +0200
Articles 18 on this page of 138 — 29 participants

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  Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-23 04:20 +0200
    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-10-23 11:00 +0200
      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-23 11:50 +0200
        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-24 01:40 +0200
          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-24 02:30 +0200
            Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-24 05:10 +0200
              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-24 09:20 +0200
                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-24 14:20 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-24 14:30 +0200
                    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-10-24 19:10 +0200
                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-24 18:50 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
                    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 15:40 +0200
                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-25 20:50 +0200
                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roger Lynn <Roger@rilynn.me.uk> - 2017-10-25 00:30 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 04:10 +0200
      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-23 13:00 +0200
      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-23 18:10 +0200
      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2017-10-23 18:10 +0200
        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-23 23:10 +0200
          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2017-10-24 00:00 +0200
            Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-24 02:40 +0200
              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 03:20 +0200
                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 05:00 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 05:10 +0200
                    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 06:20 +0200
                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 13:40 +0200
                        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Alberto Luaces <aluaces@udc.es> - 2017-10-25 14:10 +0200
                          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
                            Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 15:50 +0200
                              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-10-25 16:30 +0200
                              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-10-25 17:10 +0200
                                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 17:30 +0200
                              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-10-25 19:00 +0200
                                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 19:10 +0200
                                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-10-25 19:40 +0200
                        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 14:20 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-25 05:50 +0200
                    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 13:40 +0200
                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 14:00 +0200
                        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? tomas@tuxteam.de - 2017-10-25 14:20 +0200
                        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-10-25 14:50 +0200
                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-10-25 14:10 +0200
                        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 14:20 +0200
                          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-10-25 15:00 +0200
                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2017-10-25 17:10 +0200
                        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 18:50 +0200
                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 21:30 +0200
                    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 13:40 +0200
                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-10-26 17:40 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-26 17:50 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-10-26 18:00 +0200
                    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-10-26 18:20 +0200
                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-10-26 18:40 +0200
                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-27 02:00 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-27 02:00 +0200
    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2017-10-23 12:10 +0200
    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 05:50 +0200
      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 06:10 +0200
        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 06:50 +0200
          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-10-25 08:50 +0200
            Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 14:40 +0200
              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 14:50 +0200
                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 15:00 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 15:10 +0200
                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-25 15:10 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 15:10 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
                    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 16:10 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 16:10 +0200
                    [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 20:30 +0200
                      Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 20:40 +0200
                      Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-25 20:40 +0200
                        Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-25 21:00 +0200
                        Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 21:00 +0200
                      Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 15:10 +0200
                        Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-26 15:40 +0200
                          Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 16:00 +0200
                            Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 21:40 +0200
                              Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 21:40 +0200
                        Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-10-26 16:30 +0200
                        The new normal of logging Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-10-26 21:10 +0200
                          Re: The new normal of logging Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-10-26 21:30 +0200
                            Re: The new normal of logging Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-27 02:10 +0200
                              Re: The new normal of logging Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2017-10-27 03:30 +0200
                                Re: The new normal of logging Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-27 07:00 +0200
                                  Re: The new normal of logging Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2017-10-28 04:50 +0200
                                    Re: The new normal of logging Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-28 08:10 +0200
                              Re: The new normal of logging Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-10-27 04:10 +0200
                            Re: The new normal of logging Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-10-27 11:40 +0200
                              Plain text vs. binary (was Re: The new normal of logging) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-10-27 14:40 +0200
                          Re: The new normal of logging Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 21:30 +0200
                      Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-27 17:10 +0200
                        Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-27 17:50 +0200
                          Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-10-27 20:30 +0200
                            Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-27 20:50 +0200
                              Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-10-27 21:50 +0200
                                Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-27 22:00 +0200
                      Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-28 18:30 +0200
                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-26 05:40 +0200
                    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 12:50 +0200
                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-10-26 13:30 +0200
                        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 13:50 +0200
                          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-26 16:40 +0200
                            Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 17:00 +0200
                          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-10-27 10:10 +0200
                            Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-27 13:50 +0200
                              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-10-27 14:20 +0200
                                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-27 14:40 +0200
                                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-27 20:50 +0200
                                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-27 20:50 +0200
                                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-27 16:20 +0200
                                  Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-10-28 00:10 +0200
                                    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-28 00:10 +0200
                                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-28 02:00 +0200
                                        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-10-28 15:30 +0200
                                          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-10-28 18:50 +0200
                                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-10-28 15:40 +0200
                                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-27 16:40 +0200
                                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-10-28 00:10 +0200
                              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-27 16:30 +0200
                              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-28 02:40 +0200
                      Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-26 14:40 +0200
                        Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roger Lynn <Roger@rilynn.me.uk> - 2017-11-04 00:30 +0100
                          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-11-04 08:50 +0100
                            Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-11-04 13:10 +0100
                              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-11-04 22:00 +0100
                                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-11-04 22:10 +0100
                                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-11-04 22:10 +0100
                          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2017-11-04 15:40 +0100
                    Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-26 15:30 +0200
                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 15:00 +0200
                Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
          Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 15:10 +0200
            Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
              Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 16:20 +0200

Page 7 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]

#188410

FromMart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com>
Date2017-10-28 00:10 +0200
Message-ID<uFkZb-1np-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188384
Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> writes:

>
> Who's saying it must be installed? Maybe I've missed something, but I
> think the consensus in this discussion was that if you want your
> resolv.conf to be unmanaged/static/administrator-controlled, then
> don't have resolvconf installed. If you have resolvconf installed,
> then what's the point of neutering it with a command?
>
Because in this case OP is running a DHCP client, which *will* overwrite
resolv.conf unless something stops it.

And you can then either try all kinds of workarounds, or install the
tool that's meant to manage resolv.conf in the presence of programs that
want to change it.

Mart

-- 
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.

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#188389

FromStefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date2017-10-27 16:30 +0200
Message-ID<uFdO1-4RQ-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188383
>> Granted, it might be nice if resolvconf had an easier way to configure
>> a static setup, but as it is now packages that need to access
>> resolv.conf should do this through resolvconf if it is available, so
>> installing and configuring it *is* the right way to handle this.
> I must argue against it, until as you say, resolvconf is given a well 
> documented way to be told to leave a "static" system alone.

Why would that be a requirement?  As this thread shows, the problem of
resolv.conf being modified occurs without resolvconf: it's not caused by
resolvconf, but rather by its lack.


        Stefan

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#188414

FromMichael Stone <mstone@debian.org>
Date2017-10-28 02:40 +0200
Message-ID<uFnkl-2LU-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188383
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 07:49:29AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>I must argue against it, until as you say, resolvconf is given a well
>documented way to be told to leave a "static" system alone.  Until such
>time, I'll make /etc/resolv.conf a real file, and mark it
>and /etc/network/interfaces immutable.

It's been mentioned several times. If you don't want to do that and 
would rather set the immutable bit, great! Now move on and stop 
complaining about it.

Mike Stone

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#188338

FromStefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date2017-10-26 14:40 +0200
Message-ID<uEPC2-5n9-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188329
>> > If Debian developers who are responsible for resolvconf are reading this,
>> > and if they actually CARE about making things work correctly and sensibly,
>> > then here is yet another proposal: give us a way to QUICKLY and EASILY
>> > and RELIABLY tell resolvconf "never do anything".
>> `resolvconf` only touches /etc/resolv.conf when it is installed/initialized.
>> What it does to it is to replace it with a symlink.
>> After that, it doesn't touch it any morel instead it only modifies the file
>> that is the target of that symlink.
> Given that multiple packages potentially touch/change resolv.conf (at
> least resolvconf and the various DHCP clients),

That is not true: when resolvconf is installed, *no package* should
(modulo bugs) ever change /etc/resolv.conf.

Instead all changes go through resolvconf, which only modifies
/run/resolvconf/resolv.conf (and those changes usually get reflected
into /etc/resolv.conf by making it a symlink to that file, but that's
not mandatory).


        Stefan "who thinks resolvconf should always be installed"

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#188577

FromRoger Lynn <Roger@rilynn.me.uk>
Date2017-11-04 00:30 +0100
Message-ID<uHTzr-1zy-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188338
On 26/10/17 13:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Given that multiple packages potentially touch/change resolv.conf (at
>> least resolvconf and the various DHCP clients),
> 
> That is not true: when resolvconf is installed, *no package* should
> (modulo bugs) ever change /etc/resolv.conf.
> 
> Instead all changes go through resolvconf, which only modifies
> /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf (and those changes usually get reflected
> into /etc/resolv.conf by making it a symlink to that file, but that's
> not mandatory).
> 
>         Stefan "who thinks resolvconf should always be installed"

I think it would be preferable for every package which wants to write to the
resolv.conf file to be required to use the resolvconf package to do so
(which is what I, and I think some other people, thought the situation was
until we read this thread). Uninstalling the resolvconf package would then
mean nothing could write to the resolv.conf file.

I've been in the fortunate position that I've never needed to install the
resolvconf package and nothing has ever tried to modify my resolv.conf file.
I've obviously led a sheltered life.

Roger

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#188583

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2017-11-04 08:50 +0100
Message-ID<uI1nk-541-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188577
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, Nov 03, 2017 at 10:22:33PM +0000, Roger Lynn wrote:
> On 26/10/17 13:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> Given that multiple packages potentially touch/change resolv.conf (at
> >> least resolvconf and the various DHCP clients),
> > 
> > That is not true: when resolvconf is installed, *no package* should
> > (modulo bugs) ever change /etc/resolv.conf.
> > 
> > Instead all changes go through resolvconf, which only modifies
> > /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf (and those changes usually get reflected
> > into /etc/resolv.conf by making it a symlink to that file, but that's
> > not mandatory).
> > 
> >         Stefan "who thinks resolvconf should always be installed"
> 
> I think it would be preferable for every package which wants to write to the
> resolv.conf file to be required to use the resolvconf package to do so
> (which is what I, and I think some other people, thought the situation was
> until we read this thread). Uninstalling the resolvconf package would then
> mean nothing could write to the resolv.conf file.

I strongly disagree. There are people who *want* to have (for example)
dhclient keeping their resolv.conf up to date (and no intermediate
package like resolvconf meddling). One of the things I do love about
Debian is that it goes out of its way to accomodate all of 'em (as long
as there's someone willing to do the legwork, that is).

It comes at some price, though.

> I've been in the fortunate position that I've never needed to install the
> resolvconf package and nothing has ever tried to modify my resolv.conf file.
> I've obviously led a sheltered life.

Most of us fall into two classes:

 A. All static. Nobody changes resolv.conf. All is well. Admin writes
    resolv.conf (and /etc/hosts and all).  (the "classic")
 B. Get IP address via DHCP (dhclient, NetworkManager, whatever else).
    Whatever else writes to resolv.conf. User == admin mostly doesn't
    even know what resolv.conf means, most of the time.

Without resolvconf, you're in trouble if there are several agents
caring about resolv.conf, that is, you are in class B and have
e.g. NetworkManager and say dhclient (or some systemd outgrowth,
cough, cough) trying to write to that file. Or you are in an intersection
of A and B (who said they were disjoint? The sysadmin is but an agent
more). In the latter case, you're bound to learn enough about sysadmin
to really decide whether you *want* resolvconf or not.

Me? I am in A∩B. And with no resolvconf. Stefan? Most probably in
the same set. And with resolvconf.

Distros are social projects. They have to accomodate types of humans
you never dreamt they exist. That's actually the exciting part of
it :-)

Cheers
- -- tomás


> 
> Roger
> 
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#188586

FromRoberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org>
Date2017-11-04 13:10 +0100
Message-ID<uI5qV-7Ld-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188583
On Sat, Nov 04, 2017 at 08:45:59AM +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> Most of us fall into two classes:
> 
>  A. All static. Nobody changes resolv.conf. All is well. Admin writes
>     resolv.conf (and /etc/hosts and all).  (the "classic")
>  B. Get IP address via DHCP (dhclient, NetworkManager, whatever else).
>     Whatever else writes to resolv.conf. User == admin mostly doesn't
>     even know what resolv.conf means, most of the time.
> 
> Without resolvconf, you're in trouble if there are several agents
> caring about resolv.conf, that is, you are in class B and have
> e.g. NetworkManager and say dhclient (or some systemd outgrowth,
> cough, cough) trying to write to that file. Or you are in an intersection
> of A and B (who said they were disjoint? The sysadmin is but an agent
> more). In the latter case, you're bound to learn enough about sysadmin
> to really decide whether you *want* resolvconf or not.
> 
> Me? I am in A∩B. And with no resolvconf. Stefan? Most probably in
> the same set. And with resolvconf.
> 
I agree.  The intersection situation (which I believe describes my) is
why I filed #879949.  I small hint would have saved me many hours of
frustration.  I suspect that it would do the same for others.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#188602

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2017-11-04 22:00 +0100
Message-ID<uIdHP-4eN-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188586
On Sat 04 Nov 2017 at 08:03:02 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 04, 2017 at 08:45:59AM +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > 
> > Most of us fall into two classes:
> > 
> >  A. All static. Nobody changes resolv.conf. All is well. Admin writes
> >     resolv.conf (and /etc/hosts and all).  (the "classic")
> >  B. Get IP address via DHCP (dhclient, NetworkManager, whatever else).
> >     Whatever else writes to resolv.conf. User == admin mostly doesn't
> >     even know what resolv.conf means, most of the time.
> > 
> > Without resolvconf, you're in trouble if there are several agents
> > caring about resolv.conf, that is, you are in class B and have
> > e.g. NetworkManager and say dhclient (or some systemd outgrowth,
> > cough, cough) trying to write to that file. Or you are in an intersection
> > of A and B (who said they were disjoint? The sysadmin is but an agent
> > more). In the latter case, you're bound to learn enough about sysadmin
> > to really decide whether you *want* resolvconf or not.
> > 
> > Me? I am in A∩B. And with no resolvconf. Stefan? Most probably in
> > the same set. And with resolvconf.
> > 
> I agree.  The intersection situation (which I believe describes my) is
> why I filed #879949.  I small hint would have saved me many hours of
> frustration.  I suspect that it would do the same for others.

I'm not going to ask what an "intersection situation" is. It sounds very
technical. But I thought anyone who used DHCP. and cared about it, would
realise they had ended up on the network they were connecting to. That
would include using that network's nameservers (unless they arranged it
otherwise).

-- 
Brian.

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#188603

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2017-11-04 22:10 +0100
Message-ID<uIdRv-4xw-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188602
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On Sat, Nov 04, 2017 at 08:53:56PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> On Sat 04 Nov 2017 at 08:03:02 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Nov 04, 2017 at 08:45:59AM +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > 
> > > Most of us fall into two classes:
> > > 
> > >  A. All static. Nobody changes resolv.conf. All is well. Admin writes
> > >     resolv.conf (and /etc/hosts and all).  (the "classic")
> > >  B. Get IP address via DHCP (dhclient, NetworkManager, whatever else).
> > >     Whatever else writes to resolv.conf. User == admin mostly doesn't
> > >     even know what resolv.conf means, most of the time.

[...]

> I'm not going to ask what an "intersection situation" is. It sounds very
> technical.

Touché :-)

basically that means that you care about the content of your resolv.conf,
but let some agent (e.g. resolvconf or dhclient) update it. You then bear
the burden to understand what said agent is doing. But you learn something
(my learning started with chattr +i and log watching, some moons ago).

> But I thought anyone who used DHCP. and cared about it, would
> realise they had ended up on the network they were connecting to. That
> would include using that network's nameservers (unless they arranged it
> otherwise).

Precisely.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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#188604

FromRoberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org>
Date2017-11-04 22:10 +0100
Message-ID<uIdRw-4xw-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188602
On Sat, Nov 04, 2017 at 08:53:56PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> 
> I'm not going to ask what an "intersection situation" is. It sounds very
> technical. But I thought anyone who used DHCP. and cared about it, would
> realise they had ended up on the network they were connecting to. That
> would include using that network's nameservers (unless they arranged it
> otherwise).
> 
It is the intersection of groups A and B described by Tomas.

If you go back and read the original post that kicked off this thread,
the entire issue was that I thought that the absence of resolvconf was
sufficient to create an arrangement where the nameservers weren't
populated from DHCP.  In my case I am running my own bind on the machine
in question (to provide DNS for my LAN), which is also the
firewall/router for my network.  So, there is an interface with a static
address connected to the LAN and another that is configured by DHCP from
the ISP equipment.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#188588

FromPascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org>
Date2017-11-04 15:40 +0100
Message-ID<uI7M5-DN-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188577
Le 03/11/2017 à 23:22, Roger Lynn a écrit :
> 
> I think it would be preferable for every package which wants to write to the
> resolv.conf file to be required to use the resolvconf package to do so

If it is installed. Otherwise, write directly in resolv.conf.

> Uninstalling the resolvconf package would then
> mean nothing could write to the resolv.conf file.

Fortunately not. That would break many existing setups.

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#188340

FromGreg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
Date2017-10-26 15:30 +0200
Message-ID<uEQoq-5TH-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188323
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:35:20PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> `resolvconf` only touches /etc/resolv.conf when it is installed/initialized.
> What it does to it is to replace it with a symlink.
> After that, it doesn't touch it any morel instead it only modifies the file
> that is the target of that symlink.
> 
> So there's your answer:
> - rm /etc/resolv.conf
> - zile /etc/resolv.conf

How is this supposed to prevent dhclient (et al.) from modifying the
file, then?

A quick read of /sbin/dhclient-script shows me nothing promising.
(It's also full of bugs, which is exactly what one expects in a
shell script provided by an OS package, or to be fair, any shell
script at all.)

A quick read of
<https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/openresolv/resolvconf.8.en.html>
is... interesting, but low on details.  It doesn't tell me what
resolvconf actually DOES, how it prevents other things from writing
to the file.  But see below.

Hmm... how COULD it work?

Checking <https://packages.debian.org/stretch/all/resolvconf/filelist> ....
Aha!  Installing resolvconf creates a file named
/etc/dhcp/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/resolvconf in the dhclient
hooks directory.  Maybe this file overrides the make_resolv_conf
shell function that dhclient-script provides.  I would have to
download and extract the resolvconf package to find out, since I
don't have it installed anywhere.

But what's most interesting to me is this paragraph in the resolvconf
man page:

  In some situations resolvconf needs to act as a deterrent to writing
  to /etc/resolv.conf. Where this file cannot be made immutable or you
  just need to toggle this behaviour, resolvconf can be disabled by
  adding resolvconf=NO to resolvconf.conf(5).

Sounds like chattr +i IS actually the preferred solution.  Installing and
configuring resolvconf is the fallback solution.

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#188289

FromRoberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org>
Date2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
Message-ID<uEtUS-ot-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188278
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 02:42:49PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> Yes. Still the open question remains: why is it being changed although
> the "immutable" attriibute was set?
> 
> The OP says so, and we must believe that, but I've a hard time imagining
> how that happens (whatever program is doing that, let's assume it is
> root, would have first to explicitly revert that attribute).
> 
So, I was fiddling with this again yesterday and I set/reset the
immutable attribute several times.  On the occassions when the file
changed it was when immutable was not set.  I set it again about 10
hours ago and resolv.conf has not changed since then.

I am confident that it was set the first time when I reported that the
file was changed even though I had made it immutable.  That makes me
wonder if some process had an open file descriptor on it.  However,
there was nothing in lsof.  In fact, I have not been able to see any
evidence of any actual process changing resolv.conf except for the
changed file itself.  I never see anything in any of the logs indicating
that something is changing resolv.conf or complaining that it can't.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#188280

FromGene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Date2017-10-25 15:00 +0200
Message-ID<uEtrP-8qX-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188276
On Wednesday 25 October 2017 08:35:56 Stefan Monnier wrote:

> >> I just gave you a solution to your underlying problem, which *uses*
> >> the infrastructure rather than fighting it.  I won't force you to
> >> use it, tho.
> >
> > I thought the canonical method which was discussed in the
>
> Depends on "method to do what?".
>
> A static resolv.conf is basically a concept from the past when mobile
> devices were the exception and there was hence no need for resolv.conf
> to be dynamic.  Nowadays the reverse is true, so we had to change the
> design of the system such that resolv.conf is now dynamic and shared
> between competing uses.  It's easier to use this new infrastructure to
> handle the static case, as I described, than to try and provide some
> way to disable this new infrastructure.
>
> E.g. your solution removes one source of changes to resolv.conf, but
> some other may still be around or may show up in the future and you'll
> be back at square one.
>
> Also the solution I showed has the advantage that when he stops his
> bind deamon, he still gets his host names resolved (via the
> DHCP-provided DNS server).
>
Even for shop.coyote.den? I think not.  That dhcp provided nameserver has 
never in its life seen a coyote.den. It sees and searches ONLY the 
registered names. So blanket statements like that are wrong.

> Anyway, w.r.t "canonical", my solution is taken straight from the
> solution used by dnsmasq_2.76-5+deb9u1_all.deb for that same problem.
> I'd actually expect that the `bind` Debian package provides a similar
> solution ... and indeed the `bind9` package does in /etc/init.d/bind9:
>
>             if [ "X$RESOLVCONF" != "Xno" ] && [ -x /sbin/resolvconf ]
> ; then echo "nameserver 127.0.0.1" | /sbin/resolvconf -a lo.named fi
>
> so maybe all the OP has to do, really, is to install `resolvconf` and
> the problem will be ... resolved (save for the configuration of the
> "search" which he'll have to do by hand, e.g. with
>
>     echo "search foo.bar" | resolvconf -a lo.manual
>
> in /etc/rc.local).
>
>
>         Stefan


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#188286

FromStefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
Message-ID<uEtUS-ot-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188280
>> Also the solution I showed has the advantage that when he stops his
>> bind deamon, he still gets his host names resolved (via the
>> DHCP-provided DNS server).
> Even for shop.coyote.den?

Of course: for all host names he cares to use.

And obviously, his DHCP-provided DNS server will answer with something
like "unknown host" when queried with a host name that's only provided
by the `bind` deamon he just turned off.

But I get the impression I'm misunderstanding the question.


        Stefan

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#188282

FromRoberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org>
Date2017-10-25 15:10 +0200
Message-ID<uEtBv-hW-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188263
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:42:24AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> 
> I just gave you a solution to your underlying problem, which *uses* the
> infrastructure rather than fighting it.  I won't force you to use it, tho.
> 
Actually, that is not what you did.  You provided a way to mask the
problem.  If you look at the subject line of my original message it is
"Why does resolv.conf keep changing?"  The problem I am trying to solve
is to identify what on my system keeps changing resolv.conf despite the
fact that I do not have the resolvconf package installed and that I have
attempted every documented option to configure resolv.conf to my
requirements that I could find associated with the network-related
packages I have installed on my system.

I am not willing to accept that there is no way to identify what is
going on that is causing resolv.conf to change.  Once I have figured out
what is chaning resolv.conf and why, then I will be willing to consider
how best to accomplish my objective of keeping resolv.conf configured
the way that suits my needs.

That said, you keep touting that your suggestion sets the nameserver
back to the ISP nameserver when bind is stopped.  That may be an
advantage to you, but it is specifically a behavior that I do not on my
system.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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#188292

FromStefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
Message-ID<uEtUT-ot-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188282
> I am not willing to accept

And what are you going to do about that?  Sue us?  Sue Debian Inc. ?

> that there is no way to identify what is going on that is causing
> resolv.conf to change.

BTW, maybe one way to identify the culprit is:
- install resolvconf [ I know it sounds bad, but bear with me ].
- add a script in /etc/resolvconf/update.d, e.g.:

    % cat >/etc/resolvconf/update.d/sm-tracker
    #!/bin/sh
    (date; ps -ef --forest) >>/var/log/sm-tracker.log
    % chmod +x /etc/resolvconf/update.d/sm-tracker

- let your system run for a while and when resolv.conf changed,
  look at /var/log/sm-tracker.log to see what process called resolvconf
  to update /etc/resolv.conf

You can uninstall resolvconf once you've found the culprit.  Of course,
this will only work if the culprit has been updated to make use of
resolvconf when installed, but that should hopefully be the case.


        Stefan

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#188297

FromRoberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org>
Date2017-10-25 16:20 +0200
Message-ID<uEuHf-TY-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#188292
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 09:24:49AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > I am not willing to accept
> 
> And what are you going to do about that?  Sue us?  Sue Debian Inc. ?
> 
Whoa.  Take it down a notch.  Considering I am a member of the project
itself it would be very counterproductive for me to to have a toxic
attitude towards it.

> > that there is no way to identify what is going on that is causing
> > resolv.conf to change.
> 
I was simply offering a rationale for why I did not find it appropriate
to implement your "solution" yet.  As an engineer, I think it important
to understand the root cause of a problem before proceeding with a
solution, else the solution may not be a good one.

Perhaps a better way for me to state it would have been, "I am not ready
to give up on investigating what is causing resolv.conf to change
unexpectedly.  I would like to understand that before trying to solve
the problem in potentially the wrong way."

> BTW, maybe one way to identify the culprit is:
> - install resolvconf [ I know it sounds bad, but bear with me ].
> - add a script in /etc/resolvconf/update.d, e.g.:
> 
>     % cat >/etc/resolvconf/update.d/sm-tracker
>     #!/bin/sh
>     (date; ps -ef --forest) >>/var/log/sm-tracker.log
>     % chmod +x /etc/resolvconf/update.d/sm-tracker
> 
> - let your system run for a while and when resolv.conf changed,
>   look at /var/log/sm-tracker.log to see what process called resolvconf
>   to update /etc/resolv.conf
> 
> You can uninstall resolvconf once you've found the culprit.  Of course,
> this will only work if the culprit has been updated to make use of
> resolvconf when installed, but that should hopefully be the case.
> 
Now, this is a good suggestion.  As it happens, I have already
identified the culprit by stumbling upon temporary files it littered in
/etc, but had I not yet done that this would be a logical next step.
Even more because the inotify suggestion did not pan out and even incron
did not show who was changing resolv.conf.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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