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Groups > linux.debian.user > #183786 > unrolled thread

video driver?

Started by"D. R. Evans" <doc.evans@gmail.com>
First post2017-07-17 22:20 +0200
Last post2017-07-18 21:40 +0200
Articles 7 on this page of 47 — 20 participants

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  video driver? "D. R. Evans" <doc.evans@gmail.com> - 2017-07-17 22:20 +0200
    Re: video driver? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-07-17 22:40 +0200
    Re: video driver? Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2017-07-17 22:50 +0200
    Re: video driver? Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2017-07-17 23:10 +0200
      Re: video driver? Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2017-07-18 05:40 +0200
        Re: video driver? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2017-07-18 07:50 +0200
          Re: video driver? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-07-18 13:00 +0200
            Re: video driver? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2017-07-18 14:20 +0200
              Re: video driver? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-07-18 15:50 +0200
            Re: video driver? Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2017-07-18 20:30 +0200
              Free software (was: video driver?) Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2017-07-18 21:00 +0200
                Re: Free software Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-07-19 02:20 +0200
                  Re: Free software Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-07-19 02:50 +0200
                    Re: Free software Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2017-07-19 03:30 +0200
                  Re: Free software Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2017-07-19 02:50 +0200
                    Re: Free software Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-07-19 03:40 +0200
                      Re: Free software rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-07-19 14:10 +0200
                      Re: Free software Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-07-20 00:10 +0200
                  Re: Free software Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-07-19 06:00 +0200
                    Re: Free software Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2017-07-19 06:40 +0200
                      Re: Free software <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-07-19 10:40 +0200
                      Re: Free software Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-07-19 10:50 +0200
                        Re: Free software Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-07-20 00:50 +0200
                          Re: Free software Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2017-07-20 01:10 +0200
                            Re: Free software Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-07-20 02:00 +0200
                            Re: Free software Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-07-20 03:30 +0200
                              Re: Free software rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-07-20 13:40 +0200
                                Re: Free software Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-07-20 15:00 +0200
                                  Re: Free software David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-07-20 22:50 +0200
                                Re: Free software Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2017-07-20 20:50 +0200
                                  Re: Free software Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 02:30 +0200
                      Re: Free software Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-07-20 00:20 +0200
                        Re: Free software Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-07-20 03:10 +0200
                          Re: Free software Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-07-22 04:00 +0200
                            Re: Free software Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-07-22 05:50 +0200
                              Re: Free software Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-07-22 07:10 +0200
                              Re: Free software rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-07-22 13:30 +0200
                                Re: Free software Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-07-22 14:50 +0200
                                Re: Free software Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-07-22 17:00 +0200
                  Re: Free software Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-07-20 13:40 +0200
              Re: video driver? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2017-07-18 21:20 +0200
              Re: video driver? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-07-18 21:30 +0200
                Re: video driver? Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-07-18 22:10 +0200
                  Re: video driver? "tomas@tuxteam.de" <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-07-18 22:30 +0200
                  Re: video driver? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-07-19 02:20 +0200
                Re: video driver? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-07-19 02:00 +0200
              Re: video driver? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2017-07-18 21:40 +0200

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#183858

FromBrad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk>
Date2017-07-18 21:20 +0200
Message-ID<u4Gch-6nx-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#183855

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:25:34 -0500
Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> wrote:

Hello Doug,

>My point is that most of the folks who complain about code not being 
>free to modify are not capable of modifying it, so why do they complain?

For the same reason people take an idealogical stance on anything -
Ability to act on their own behalf has little to do with it.  It's their
choice to make.  It's your right to disagree with their choice, of
course.

>and be inferior to what the company originally supplied, thus giving
>the company a black eye, so to speak.

A possibility I neglected to mention, except by the vaguest of
inferences.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
You're a sidewalk cipher speaking prionic jive
Give You Nothing - Bad Religion

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#183860

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2017-07-18 21:30 +0200
Message-ID<u4GlY-6s8-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#183855
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On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 01:25:34PM -0500, Doug wrote:
[...]

> My point is that most of the folks who complain about code not being
> free to modify are not capable of modifying it, so why do they
> complain?

Because they sympathize with those who can?
Because they trust free software developers more than businesses?
Because they can let a friend fix the software for them?
Because the software will be available after the business has
gone bust or lost interest?
Because there's more control by civil society of the tools shaping
our future?

Some folks are even crazy enough to complain about injustice
inflicted to minorities they don't belong to. Go figure.

  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...>

Honestly, I prefer a society like that.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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#183865

FromFungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com>
Date2017-07-18 22:10 +0200
Message-ID<u4GYF-6V8-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#183860

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

From: tomas@tuxteam.de
>Because there"s more control by civil society of the tools shaping
>our future?
What control does society have over science and technology? None!
What control does society have over religious beliefs? None!
What control does society have over media and information? None!
What control does society have over its future? None!
>Some folks are even crazy enough to complain about injustice
>inflicted to minorities they don"t belong to. Go figure.
What control does society have over injustice done? None!
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...>
>Honestly, I prefer a society like that.
At some point talk is cheap, it may be time to act and take it all back

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#183866

From"tomas@tuxteam.de" <tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2017-07-18 22:30 +0200
Message-ID<u4Hi2-71I-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#183865
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On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 04:05:48PM -0400, Fungi4All wrote:
> From: tomas@tuxteam.de
> >Because there"s more control by civil society of the tools shaping
> >our future?
> What control does society have over science and technology? None!
> What control does society have over religious beliefs? None!
> What control does society have over media and information? None!
> What control does society have over its future? None!

I beg to differ. Too little, for my taste, yes. But not none.

> >Some folks are even crazy enough to complain about injustice
> >inflicted to minorities they don"t belong to. Go figure.
> What control does society have over injustice done? None!
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...>
> >Honestly, I prefer a society like that.
> At some point talk is cheap, it may be time to act and take it all back

That's what some of us are in for, after all.

Cheers
- -- t
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#183868

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2017-07-19 02:20 +0200
Message-ID<u4KSC-SO-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#183865
On Tue 18 Jul 2017 at 16:05:48 -0400, Fungi4All wrote:

> From: tomas@tuxteam.de
> >Because there"s more control by civil society of the tools shaping
> >our future?
> What control does society have over science and technology? None!

Bollocks. We no longer have the chariot or leeches.

> What control does society have over religious beliefs? None!

Bollocks. Human sacrifice is moribund. Chicken entrails hardly get used
nowadays.

> What control does society have over media and information? None!

Bollocks. The News of the World went to the wall. The internet arrived.

> What control does society have over its future? None!

Complete bollocks. I'll explain tomorrow.

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#183867

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2017-07-19 02:00 +0200
Message-ID<u4Kzg-wE-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#183860
On Tue 18 Jul 2017 at 21:20:42 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 01:25:34PM -0500, Doug wrote:
> [...]
> 
> > My point is that most of the folks who complain about code not being
> > free to modify are not capable of modifying it, so why do they
> > complain?
> 
> Because they sympathize with those who can?
> Because they trust free software developers more than businesses?
> Because they can let a friend fix the software for them?

Or pay to have someone do it for tham.

> Because the software will be available after the business has
> gone bust or lost interest?
> Because there's more control by civil society of the tools shaping
> our future?

All excellent reasons.

> Some folks are even crazy enough to complain about injustice
> inflicted to minorities they don't belong to. Go figure.

It's a strange world.

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#183862

FromDan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org>
Date2017-07-18 21:40 +0200
Message-ID<u4GvD-6vZ-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#183855
On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 01:25:34PM -0500, Doug wrote:
> 
> On 07/18/2017 05:52 AM, RavenLX wrote:
> > On 07/18/2017 01:43 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > > On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 22:38:55 -0500
> > > Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hello Doug,
> > > 
> > > > I get so sick of this! Did you PAY for your nvidia software? No? then
> > > 
> > > Anyone that buys an nVidia chipset GFX card pays for the nVidia
> > > drivers -
> > > whether they use them, or not.
> > > 
> > > > it was FREE!
> > > 
> > > No, it wasn't.  Cost is hidden, but is still there.
> > > 
> > > In any case, the 'free' that Teemu was referring to was freeDOM.  That
> > > is, the restrictions the nVidia license places upon the buyer.
> > 
> > This poses an interesting question: Why would a company keep something
> > proprietary such as a driver? In my mind, those that *can* make use of
> > it, like you said, already bought the product that has the chip. Those
> > that haven't bought the product thus would not be able to use the driver
> > anyway. So logically speaking, a driver that is not proprietary (ie. is
> > open source) really can't be used by anyone other than someone who
> > already paid the company anyway.
> > 
> > As a programmer, I don't think many (if any) would be able to say,
> > reverse-engineer a chip or device, etc. and replicate it just by looking
> > at programming code (unless I'm mistaken)?

Depends on the code, and what you want to accomplish. Remember
that chips are laid out by software these days, and so are
board-level components. And cases are made by CAD systems. Lots
of code and data.

> My point is that most of the folks who complain about code not being free to
> modify are not capable of modifying it, so why do they complain?

Even a complete non-programmer can benefit from libre software.

- You can pay someone else to fix a bug or make a change for you.
- You can convince someone else to fix a bug or make a change for you.

Further, if the software maintainers accept changes from the
outside world, they can bring those bug fixes and features to 
everyone who uses the mainstream.

And if they don't, forking the software under a new name allows
people a choice of which they want to use.

> Your point is interesting. I would guess that the company does not open
> source their driver because a modified version might become freely
> available, with the company's name still on it,
> and be inferior to what the company originally supplied, thus giving the
> company a black eye, so to speak.

That's grounds for a trademark suit in pretty much all
jurisdictions. You can fork Ghostscript and call it DougScript,
as long as you keep the AGPL, but Artifex will have standing to
sue you for a fork of Ghostscript that violates their trademark
by attributing it to them.

(And they have successfully sued a company that forked
GhostScript and did not comply with the AGPL and did not get 
buy a commercial license either.)

-dsr-

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