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DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format

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  DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-26 19:40 +0200
    Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-03-26 19:50 +0200
    Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-26 20:00 +0200
    Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-26 20:10 +0200
    Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-26 20:20 +0200
      Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-27 12:20 +0200
        Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-27 14:20 +0200
          Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-27 14:40 +0200
            Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-28 12:20 +0200
              Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-28 14:00 +0200
                Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-03-28 14:20 +0200
                  Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-28 15:50 +0200
                    Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-03-28 15:50 +0200
                    Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-28 16:30 +0200
                      Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-28 17:40 +0200
                        Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-28 19:10 +0200
                Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-28 14:20 +0200
                  Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-03-28 14:20 +0200
                  Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-28 14:40 +0200
                  Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-28 15:20 +0200
              Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-03-28 19:30 +0200
                Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-28 20:40 +0200
                  Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-03-29 07:50 +0200
                    Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-29 10:30 +0200
                      Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-29 12:20 +0200
                        Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-29 12:40 +0200
              Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-29 00:50 +0200
                Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-03-29 07:50 +0200
                Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-29 10:20 +0200
                  Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-29 22:30 +0200
                    Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-30 00:00 +0200
                Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-29 16:40 +0200
                  Re:Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-29 22:10 +0200
                    Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 23:40 +0200
                      Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-30 20:10 +0200
                        Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 20:20 +0200
                          Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-30 20:50 +0200
                      Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-30 20:30 +0200
                      Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2017-03-30 20:40 +0200
                        Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2017-03-30 21:30 +0200
                          Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Terence <terence.john@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 22:00 +0200
                            Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-30 22:40 +0200
                              Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 00:20 +0200
                                Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-31 01:30 +0200
                            Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-31 09:50 +0200
                              Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt Terence <terence.john@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 12:40 +0200
                                OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-03-31 15:10 +0200
                                  Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 15:40 +0200
                                    Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-31 15:50 +0200
                                      Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-03-31 16:20 +0200
                                        Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2017-03-31 16:30 +0200
                                      Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re:  Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-31 18:00 +0200
                                        Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-01 00:20 +0200
                                    Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-03-31 16:20 +0200
                                      Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 17:00 +0200
                                        Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re:  Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 19:20 +0200
                                          Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 20:10 +0200
                                            Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.)  (was: Re:  Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt) Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 21:30 +0200
                                    Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) Peter Hillier-Brook <phb@hbsys.plus.com> - 2017-03-31 17:20 +0200
                                    Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-01 00:20 +0200
                                      Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 00:50 +0200
                                        Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-01 18:10 +0200
                                  Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-03-31 16:50 +0200
                                    Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 17:00 +0200
                                    Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2017-03-31 17:10 +0200
                                      Re: OT: speaking of days (weeks, months, years, etc.) kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-01 00:40 +0200
          Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2017-03-27 21:00 +0200
            Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-27 21:50 +0200
    Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2017-03-27 06:10 +0200
      Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-27 14:10 +0200
        Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-03-27 14:30 +0200
        Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-27 14:40 +0200
          Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-03-27 15:10 +0200
          Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2017-03-27 20:20 +0200
            Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2017-03-28 00:00 +0200
        Re: DD bs=4M option on USB mem-stick creates false format David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2017-03-27 19:40 +0200

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#179542

Thomas Schmitt wrote:
...
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See a test run with rescatux ISO on /dev/sdc (any current Debian i386
> or amd64 ISO would be suitable, too).
>
> Still less dangerous than manipulating /dev files as superuser is
> to give the world temporary permission to the one stick in question:
>
>   $ sudo chmod o+rw /dev/sdc
>
> (The program is supposed to refuse if it does not find an isohybrid ISO.
>  But better do not bet on those safety measures.)

  always give an option to do a dry run without
any actual changes being made (but reports what
would be done).


...
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> It would be interesting to see how various partition editors react on
> this state of the USB stick. Can they reduce the size of partition 3 ?
> Can they remove partition 3 and add on new one ?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Have a nice day :)

  thanks!  u2.


  songbird

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#179544

Hi,

songbird wrote:
> always give an option to do a dry run without any actual changes
> being made

But what difference would that make ?
If the program thinks it's not ok, then it will refuse.
If it thinks it's ok, then shall the user refrain nevertheless ?

Of course it's safer to know what is on the stick or to inspect
it by commands like "fdisk -l" and "isoinfo -d".


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#179561

Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> songbird wrote:

>> always give an option to do a dry run without any actual changes
>> being made
>
> But what difference would that make ?

  just me and a preference to err on the side
of caution when dealing with devices that might
alter a very basic thing.


> If the program thinks it's not ok, then it will refuse.
> If it thinks it's ok, then shall the user refrain nevertheless ?

  maybe, if they just want to see what it says
it will do.

  also, consider that bugs do happen and sometimes
a dry run switch will discover them before it does
the actual write to the device.


> Of course it's safer to know what is on the stick or to inspect
> it by commands like "fdisk -l" and "isoinfo -d".

  yes, always a good idea.

  mostly the idea is to prevent "wrong device" or a fumble
finger kind of error.  with some things i know it is ok to
ask for forgiveness instead of asking for permission, but
when it comes down to devices and partition tables i put 
them in the more paranoid group.


> Have a nice day :)

  ya, was excellent.


  songbird

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#179565

Hi,

isongbird wrote:
>   also, consider that bugs do happen and sometimes
> a dry run switch will discover them before it does
> the actual write to the device.

The code still contains a conditional part which i used with the
initial tests.
If you change
  /* # def ine Make_isombr_part_dummY yes */
to
  #define Make_isombr_part_dummY yes
and recompile, then it will not write but rather report where and
how many bytes would be written.

But i still doubt that this would have any value in practice.
(Maybe if it gave a detailed description what and why it would do ...)

Let's see what the emerging user community gives as feedback.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#179570

Hi,

i adopted the idea of a dry run for educational purposes.
It demonstrates in detail what make_isombr_part would do to the
storage device.

With debian-8.7.1-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso on /dev/sdc:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ ./make_isombr_part /dev/sdc auto 83 dry_run
Note: Storage capacity of '/dev/sdc' : 3915776 blocks

Dry run suppressed writing of 16 bytes to byte address 478 :
             478 : 00 ff ff ff 83 ff ff ff 00 38 14 00 00 88 27 00
Note: Omitted MBR partition slot 3, type 0x83, start 1325056, blocks 2590720

Dry run suppressed writing of 32 bytes to byte address 0 :
               0 : 33 ed 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90
              16 : 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90
Note: Spared APM signature

Dry run suppressed writing of 8 bytes to byte address 512 :
             512 : 77 61 73 20 67 70 74 20
Note: Spared GPT signature at block 1

Dry run suppressed writing of 8 bytes to byte address 678428160 :
       678428160 : 77 61 73 20 67 70 74 20
Note: Spared GPT signature at block 1325055

$
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In contrast to a wet run:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ ./make_isombr_part /dev/sdc auto 83
Note: Storage capacity of '/dev/sdc' : 3915776 blocks
Note: Wrote MBR partition slot 3, type 0x83, start 1325056, blocks 2590720
Note: Wrote APM signature
Note: Wrote GPT signature at block 1
Note: Wrote GPT signature at block 1325055
$
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The downloadable files have been updated.

Source:
  http://scdbackup.webframe.org/make_isombr_part.c
  MD5 7f922c2dda85814a5a0210c2ad4e6cfb 
  Compile by
    cc -g -Wall -o make_isombr_part make_isombr_part.c

amd64 executable binary:
  http://scdbackup.webframe.org/make_isombr_part
  MD5 56de878a525c4e642fa7b2fac14dea82


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#179572

Hi,

now i have spoiled the wet run messages. "Wrote" rather than "Removed"
in the messages agout APM and GPT. Grrrrr.

New source:
  http://scdbackup.webframe.org/make_isombr_part.c
  MD5 34aa900801f65955a61cebf0280eeb3b
  Compile by
    cc -g -Wall -o make_isombr_part make_isombr_part.c

New amd64 executable binary:
  http://scdbackup.webframe.org/make_isombr_part
  MD5 dd3e1a16e9593f908a1ce9ec848fd929


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#179555

All I can say is that I feel honored that some useful code was produced
with my problem statement as an inspiration.
I am doing research on the topic trying to learn all that feels like a
huge gap of how disks and data relate.

Have a nice day Thomas
kAt

Thomas Schmitt:
> Hi,
> 
> i wrote a small program which shall make a USB stick with isohybrid ISO
> more digestible for partition editors by removing all partition tables
> except MBR partitions.
> It then creates a new partition in the first MBR partition slot which
> is found with block count 0.
> 
>   usage: ./make_isombr_part file_path partition_end partition_type
> 
>          Creates a partition in a free slot of an isohybrid MBR in an ISO.
>          Removes GPT and APM signatures if present.
>          file_path must lead to a file or device with isohybrid ISO.
>          partition_end tells the number of 512-byte blocks of device.
>          partiton_end value "auto" means full number of device blocks.
>          partition_type is a hex number in the range of 00 to ff.
>          Type examples: 83 = Linux , 0c = FAT32 , 17 = Hidden NTFS
> 
> Binary compiled on Debian 8 (you may need to give it x-permission after
> download):
> 
>   http://scdbackup.webframe.org/make_isombr_part
> 
> MD5: 4856af2c1b50a775325a3e6c09d7d9bc
> 
> Source code:
>   http://scdbackup.webframe.org/make_isombr_part.c
> 
> The argument "auto" currently works only on Linux kernels.
> On other systems one has to give the block number explicitely.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> See a test run with rescatux ISO on /dev/sdc (any current Debian i386
> or amd64 ISO would be suitable, too).
> 
> Still less dangerous than manipulating /dev files as superuser is
> to give the world temporary permission to the one stick in question:
> 
>   $ sudo chmod o+rw /dev/sdc
> 
> (The program is supposed to refuse if it does not find an isohybrid ISO.
>  But better do not bet on those safety measures.)
> 
> Let the program remove APM and GPT and add a MBR partition:
> 
>   $ chmod u+x ./make_isombr_part
> 
>   $ ./make_isombr_part /dev/sdc auto 83
>   Note: Storage capacity of '/dev/sdc' : 3915776 blocks
>   Note: Wrote MBR partition slot 3, type 0x83, start 1374208, blocks 2541568
>   Note: Removed APM signature
>   Note: Removed GPT signature at block 1
>   Note: Removed GPT signature at block 1374207
> 
> Afterwards, fdisk reports the new partiton table:
> 
>   $ /sbin/fdisk -l /dev/sdc
>   Disk /dev/sdc: 1.9 GiB, 2004877312 bytes, 3915776 sectors
>   ...
>   Device     Boot   Start     End Sectors  Size Id Type
>   /dev/sdc1  *         64 1374207 1374144  671M  0 Empty
>   /dev/sdc2       1297212 1298619    1408  704K ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
>   /dev/sdc3       1374208 3915775 2541568  1.2G 83 Linux
> 
> When done, exclude the world from directly reading and altering the stick
> content:
> 
>   $ sudo chmod o-rw /dev/sdc
> 
> Best unplug the stick and put it in again, so that the operating system
> takes notice of the new partition table situation.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> It would be interesting to see how various partition editors react on
> this state of the USB stick. Can they reduce the size of partition 3 ?
> Can they remove partition 3 and add on new one ?
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Have a nice day :)
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 

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#179562

kAt wrote:
> All I can say is that I feel honored that some useful code was produced
> with my problem statement as an inspiration.
> I am doing research on the topic trying to learn all that feels like a
> huge gap of how disks and data relate.
>
> Have a nice day Thomas

  it is very useful to think about for me too
at the moment i'm considering how to set up one
or two USB sticks and getting them ready for 
the stretch installer.  i will likely need to 
use them for a new machine in the next few weeks.


  songbird

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#179564

Hi,

kAt wrote:
> All I can say is that I feel honored that some useful code was produced
> with my problem statement as an inspiration.

Whether it's useful will still have to turn out. :)
Up to now it has one happy user.

I am pondering about the partition table mess since quite a while.
On the one hand it is what has been tested to halfways work since years.
(Although recently an 8 year old isohybrid bug was discovered which
 prevents very old BIOSes from booting off the stick. So the testing
 cannot have been all that intense and dilligent.)
On the other hand it just violates specs and software expectations.

A more standards compliant partition layout might exclude some exotic
or meanwhile antique machines.

For example it turned out in experiments with grub-mkrescue that some
EFI firmwares boot from an MBR-only layout only if the big ISO partition
has type 0x00 (= "Empty").
In the mjg layout of Debian ISOs, the big partition must have type 0x00,
because else most EFIs would object the nesting of partition 2 inside
partition 1. So the problem of some few EFIs was worked around by
accident.

It's a mine field.
So it might be best to keep the weird partition tables in the ISO
until it turned out that the particular machines, which shall use it,
are not in need of weirdness.
That would be the moment to consider use of make_isombr_part.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#179588

Thomas Schmitt:
> Hi,
> 
> kAt wrote:
>> All I can say is that I feel honored that some useful code was produced
>> with my problem statement as an inspiration.
> 
> Whether it's useful will still have to turn out. :)
> Up to now it has one happy user.

I think being able to use a thumb-stick as a hard disk has some use.
While trying to understand this and experiment I am trying to find out
what firmware works with this medium and what it really does.  I suspect
the chips are the same memory chips one finds in a ddr/dram with some
code that manages to store stuff in the chips and read/write them.  The
issue of where disruption of current erases the one while it does not
affect the other I think it is more of an issue of what firmware erases
dram (or video memory) and not what retains data on a thumb stick.  Most
of the references I found on the topic was about old window tricks of
using a USBstick as additional Ram.

> I am pondering about the partition table mess since quite a while.
> On the one hand it is what has been tested to halfways work since years.
> (Although recently an 8 year old isohybrid bug was discovered which
>  prevents very old BIOSes from booting off the stick. So the testing
>  cannot have been all that intense and dilligent.)
> On the other hand it just violates specs and software expectations.

I understand that xorriso was meant for writing cd/dvd mediums and some
additional code made it able to write the same images on USB drives.
If a decompressed image of a system takes up 3Gb and you are using an
8Gb disk why is it not consistent that you can partition and format the
rest of it?  Why would live image makers vary so much in the way they do
this?
I think the vast majority of users are not really interested in the
details but functionality, so anything that promotes this consistent
functionality would be widely on demand.
It seems as tails is a project on the right direction.  A reliable
system that boots up anywhere and allows you to easily encrypt and
decrypt data all contained in a thumb stick.  Within this encrypted disk
space which seems essential for tails to be of any use, vmachines can
exist with real system functionality which tails lacks.  Now imagine
what you can do with the whole hard disk being encrypted with a
tails-stick being the key to open it up.

> It's a mine field........
> Have a nice day :)
> 
> Thomas

U2

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#179593

Hi,

kAt wrote:
> I am trying to find out
> what firmware works with this medium and what it really does.

It's a little computer which implements USB bus operation, and a subset
of the SCSI command protocol, and also manages the mapping from logical
addresses (LBA) to physical addresses.
What it does internally becomes mostly of interest if it cheats on you.
(Multiple block mapping and keyboard simulation are known.)


> I suspect the chips are the same memory chips one finds in a ddr/dram

Not at all. The memory technology is about whether they keep their
memory without electrical power supply
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_random-access_memory


> using a USBstick as additional Ram.

... and a formatted 550 MB CD-RW as hard disk ? |:o


> I understand that xorriso was meant for writing cd/dvd mediums

Plus Blu-ray. Actually it coordinates ISO 9660 multi-session with writing
to various media and file types.
The boot topic is an add-on, mainly because IBM in ancient times
specified as "El Torito" that booting from CD is an add-on to ISO 9660.


> If a decompressed image of a system takes up 3Gb and you are using an
> 8Gb disk why is it not consistent that you can partition and format the
> rest of it?

Because on the first hand, optical media usually have no partition table
but some have a hardware backed table-of-content which lists tracks and
sessions.

On the second hand, a classical pure-BIOS isohybrid imposes no problem
to partition editors other than often the unusual partition start 0 of
the ISO 9660 partitioni causes a warning. (This can be changed to
block 64 by the xorriso feature of partition ofsset which writes a
second superblock and directory tree for ISO LBA 16 = disk LBA 64.)

On the third hand, Matthew Garrett (mjg) expanded the isohybrid layout
to EFI and even some Macs which expect a HFS+ filesystem with some
special files which are marked by "blessing".
This layout boots on a wide range of machines with x86 processor.
But it offends specifications and the software which more or less
implements those specifications.


> Why would live image makers vary so much in the way they do this?
> I think the vast majority of users are not really interested in the
> details but functionality,

The main functionality is to boot and to offer the installation features.
If the ISO image producers knew how large your USB stick is, then they
could add a partition with empty filesystem which fills up the stick.
But as we see, one may not even believe the size as printed on the
sales box.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#179575

On 2017-03-28, kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> wrote:

> All I can say is that I feel honored that some useful code was produced
> with my problem statement as an inspiration.

That's like some befuddled bumpkin down in North Carolina saying he's
proud to find a portrait of himself in one of Thomas Wolfe's books.

Actually it's not really anything like that. I'm just reading a book by
Thomas Wolfe and the notion entered my mind while perusing your post is
all.

Completely out of line and off-topic but I recommend the movie "Genius"
with Jude Law (great performance by Jude Law).  As well as the books, of
course.

Over and out.

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#179587 — Re:Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

Curt:
> On 2017-03-28, kAt <giathnygeia@openmailbox.org> wrote:
> 
>> All I can say is that I feel honored that some useful code was produced
>> with my problem statement as an inspiration.
> 
> That's like some befuddled bumpkin down in North Carolina saying he's
> proud to find a portrait of himself in one of Thomas Wolfe's books.

What do you mean down?  You arrogant yankee?

> Actually it's not really anything like that. I'm just reading a book by
> Thomas Wolfe and the notion entered my mind while perusing your post is
> all.

You are just thinking aloud, is that it?

> Completely out of line and off-topic but I recommend the movie "Genius"
> with Jude Law (great performance by Jude Law).  As well as the books, of
> course.

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#179592 — Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

On Wednesday 29 March 2017 20:46:00 kAt wrote:
> What do you mean down?  You arrogant yankee?

Don't Yankees come from the United States??  Or is Curt an expat??

Lisi

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#179603 — Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

Lisi Reisz:
> On Wednesday 29 March 2017 20:46:00 kAt wrote:
>> What do you mean down?  You arrogant yankee?
> 
> Don't Yankees come from the United States??  Or is Curt an expat??

In any case, looking "down" on people due to their origin (and other
characteristics) is not very social - and once you stick your antisocial
(elitist) head up you must be willing to get some response, or attention.

> Lisi

kAt

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#179604 — Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

On Thursday 30 March 2017 18:43:00 kAt wrote:
> In any case, looking "down" on people due to their origin

One of the geographical meanings of "down" in English English is "South" .

"South (as south is at the bottom of typical maps).
I went down to Miami for a conference."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/down

If one takes Yankee to mean New Yorker, then surely North Carolina is down??

We have country bumpkins in the Home Counties.  And is London "up" or "down" 
from York?

Lisi

‎

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#179607 — Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

On 03/30/2017 01:15 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Thursday 30 March 2017 18:43:00 kAt wrote:
>> In any case, looking "down" on people due to their origin
>
> One of the geographical meanings of "down" in English English is "South" .
>
> "South (as south is at the bottom of typical maps).
> I went down to Miami for a conference."
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/down
>
> If one takes Yankee to mean New Yorker, then surely North Carolina is down??
>
> We have country bumpkins in the Home Counties.  And is London "up" or "down"
> from York?
>
> Lisi

"Yankee" is one of those words that means what the speaker wishes it to 
mean. That meaning is strongly influenced by where the speaker was born.

There's an old joke along the lines of:
   If from Florida, it's someone from north of the Mason-Dixon line.
   If from north of Mason-Dixon line, it's someone from New England.
   If from New England, it's someone from Maine.
   If from Maine, it's someone who puts ketchup on his eggs.

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#179605 — Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

> On Mar 29, 2017, at 5:29 PM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Don't Yankees come from the United States??  Or is Curt an expat??
> 
The term Yankee refers specifically to a person from the northern, rather than southern, part of the USA, when used by a US native, usually one from the south. It is not a compliment. A damn Yankee is a Yankee who intends to live indefinitely in the south.

It has been used by people from other countries to refer to a person from the USA, no matter their location. A Yankee as opposed to a Kiwi, or a Brit, or an Aussie.

No offense toward any group of people is intended in this post.
Cathy

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#179606 — Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

On Wednesday, 29 March 2017 22:29:59 -04 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 29 March 2017 20:46:00 kAt wrote:
> > What do you mean down?  You arrogant yankee?
> 
> Don't Yankees come from the United States??  Or is Curt an expat??
> 
> Lisi

Hi y'all,
Oh - OK here is OT:
the Dutch in New Netherland were called "Jan Kees".  New Netherland became 
mostly New York and the locals became "Yankees". So somebody from South 
Carolina may feel that he himself must not be considered to be a "Yankee".
Whether the nickname for the Dutch was just friendly banter or derogative, I 
don't know. Hard to say anyway because names, which once were meant to be 
friendly or neutral got a derogative meaning by and by.
"Down" if referring to a city, land or continent, mostly is used in view of 
the map, which is commonly oriented with north up and south down. So I'm 
living "down" here in South America while you are living "up" there on the 
northern hemisphere.
People may be "up" there on the stage, but they are judged by the critics 
"down" there in the auditorium or are the critics always "up" there in the 
boxes?
I had to look up "bumpkin" however. No, that is not polite ... So why did 
"down" trigger the reply and not the mention of the unexperienced resident of 
the rural parts of the southeastern parts of the country, which must not be 
named?
I recommend a thicker hide to not be offended by everybody and everything.
Or was it just hyperbole?
Eike

 -- 
Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE
Eliminate batteries - they are so polarized.

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#179608 — Re: Movie 'n Book recommendations by Curt

Eike Lantzsch writes:
> the Dutch in New Netherland were called "Jan Kees".  New Netherland
> became mostly New York and the locals became "Yankees". So somebody
> from South Carolina may feel that he himself must not be considered to
> be a "Yankee".  Whether the nickname for the Dutch was just friendly
> banter or derogative, I don't know.

It gets more complicated yet.  Look up the song "Yankee Doodle".
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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