Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > linux.debian.user > #178929 > unrolled thread

Re: Suggested edit

Started byAdrian O'Dell <crimsonmane@gmail.com>
First post2017-03-16 16:30 +0100
Last post2017-03-21 16:00 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 118 — 23 participants

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.


Contents

  Re: Suggested edit Adrian O'Dell <crimsonmane@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:30 +0100
    Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-16 17:10 +0100
      Re: Suggested edit Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-17 15:30 +0100
        Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-17 16:40 +0100
          Re: Suggested edit Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 17:10 +0100
            Re: Suggested edit Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 18:00 +0100
              Re: Suggested edit Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-17 18:40 +0100
              Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-17 18:50 +0100
                Re: Suggested edit Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 19:00 +0100
              Re: Suggested edit Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-20 11:00 +0100
            Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-17 18:10 +0100
          Re: Suggested edit Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-17 18:50 +0100
          installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-20 10:50 +0100
            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 21:10 +0100
              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-20 21:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-20 22:20 +0100
                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 01:00 +0100
                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 01:40 +0100
                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 03:10 +0100
                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 04:20 +0100
                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 11:40 +0100
                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 16:00 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 16:20 +0100
                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 18:40 +0100
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 19:10 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-21 19:50 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-03-22 10:20 +0100
                                      Re: cell phone .sigs (was: installer defaults for desktops) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-22 10:50 +0100
                                        Re: cell phone .sigs (was: installer defaults for desktops) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-03-22 11:20 +0100
                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2017-04-01 18:50 +0200
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 19:10 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 20:00 +0100
                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 21:00 +0100
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 19:20 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 20:10 +0100
                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 20:20 +0100
                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 21:10 +0100
                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-22 00:30 +0100
                                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-22 02:10 +0100
                                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-03-22 04:10 +0100
                                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-22 13:10 +0100
                                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-22 13:20 +0100
                                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-03-22 13:30 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2017-03-24 07:30 +0100
                                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-24 11:20 +0100
                                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2017-03-24 17:30 +0100
                                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-24 18:40 +0100
                                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 11:30 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-23 13:00 +0100
                                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 13:40 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-23 22:00 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 11:30 +0100
                                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-24 13:10 +0100
                                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:20 +0100
                                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:20 +0100
                                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-24 19:30 +0100
                                                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 10:20 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-24 11:30 +0100
                                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-22 17:10 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 20:20 +0100
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-21 20:10 +0100
                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 16:00 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-21 17:50 +0100
                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 17:40 +0100
                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-23 18:10 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 18:40 +0100
                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 19:10 +0100
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 19:40 +0100
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-23 19:40 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 19:50 +0100
                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-23 23:40 +0100
                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 23:50 +0100
                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 00:20 +0100
                                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 00:40 +0100
                                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 01:40 +0100
                                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 02:30 +0100
                                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 05:30 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 08:50 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-24 19:30 +0100
                                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 20:50 +0100
                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-24 02:30 +0100
                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 03:40 +0100
                                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 15:50 +0100
                                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-24 19:40 +0100
                                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 21:10 +0100
                                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 23:10 +0100
                                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-25 00:10 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-25 02:50 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-25 03:50 +0100
                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-24 13:10 +0100
                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-24 15:00 +0100
                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:00 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-24 19:10 +0100
                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 20:10 +0100
                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-24 20:40 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 19:00 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-03-23 19:50 +0100
                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-24 11:30 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Fred <fred@blakemfg.com> - 2017-03-23 20:10 +0100
                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 17:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 00:50 +0100
                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-21 01:40 +0100
                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 03:10 +0100
                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-21 11:40 +0100
                        [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested  edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-22 15:10 +0100
                          Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 15:30 +0100
                            Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-22 16:00 +0100
                              Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 16:40 +0100
                                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-22 18:30 +0100
                                  Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 18:50 +0100
                                    Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 17:50 +0100
                                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2017-04-01 20:10 +0200
                                  Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 20:50 +0200
                                  Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 22:30 +0200
                                    Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 23:10 +0200
                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 12:10 +0100
                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 13:00 +0100
                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 16:00 +0100

Page 5 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6  Next page →


#179229 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromSteve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
Date2017-03-24 02:30 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tomdc-2rZ-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179221
Catherine Gramze wrote:
>
>I am suggesting, not "demanding" that the netinst installer refuse to
>continue when it is not going to be able to successfully complete the
>installation due to no network connection. This does not prevent
>anybody from backing out of the installer after the reboot to get a
>base system only should they so desire. It simply helps the new user
>get what they want, a working system with a graphical desktop.

Catherine, I'm curious - when was the last time you installed Debian
using d-i? I've now seen you several times write (like above) about
"backing out of the installer after the reboot". Are you talking about
a second stage of d-i after it's installed the base system?

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
< liw> everything I know about UK hotels I learned from "Fawlty Towers"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179230 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCatherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com>
Date2017-03-24 03:40 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toniV-38G-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179229
> On Mar 23, 2017, at 9:22 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
> 
> Catherine, I'm curious - when was the last time you installed Debian
> using d-i? I've now seen you several times write (like above) about
> "backing out of the installer after the reboot". Are you talking about
> a second stage of d-i after it's installed the base system?
> 
My last Debian netinst installation was January 11, 2017.

Very early in the installation the installer looks for a network card to configure. If you have a NIC that will not function without non-free firmware this step fails, and the installer says it failed, but the installer still allows you to continue with the installation, installing all the base system files.

Then it tells you the base system is installed, and it needs to reboot. It ejects the media and reboots into the installer. You can choose to quit at this point by choosing "back"rather than "continue" possibly more than once being needed. That is what I mean by "backing out" to deliberately get a base system install only. So, yes, I am talking about the second stage after it has installed the base system.

If some beginner continued on past the reboot without a configured NIC they are given a list of mirrors, but will be unable to select and connect to one successfully. The installation fails at this point, being unable to continue, stuck in an infinite loop of failed mirror selection. They have a Debian base system installation now, their old OS overwritten, and no network capability to get the information they need to fix the problem. And that assumes they are even capable of working with the command line to to fix it - and most beginners are not. 

My argument is that the failure to configure a NIC in the first stage of the installer should be a fatal, show-stopping error with appropriate messaging to the user that no NIC is configured and non-free firmware is required. This would prevent many failed installations, while not preventing advanced users from quitting the installer after the base system is installed. 

Cathy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179250 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2017-03-24 15:50 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toyHo-2WH-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179230
On Thu 23 Mar 2017 at 22:23:42 -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:

> > On Mar 23, 2017, at 9:22 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Catherine, I'm curious - when was the last time you installed Debian
> > using d-i? I've now seen you several times write (like above) about
> > "backing out of the installer after the reboot". Are you talking about
> > a second stage of d-i after it's installed the base system?
> > 
> My last Debian netinst installation was January 11, 2017.
> 
> Very early in the installation the installer looks for a network card
> to configure. If you have a NIC that will not function without
> non-free firmware this step fails, and the installer says it failed,
> but the installer still allows you to continue with the installation,
> installing all the base system files.

Prior to configuring the network you will have been informed about
missing firmware. If you do not supply it and choose to move on, the
network configuration is (in my experience with USB WiFi adapters)
most likely to fail. Anyway, you are told the firmware is needed so the
choice to continue or not is yours.

If a working network is important to you, you would stop and do
something to rectify the situation. If it is not important or you intend
to sort it out after the first boot or you want to chance your arm, you
carry on. The probable outcome is that a network mirror cannot be chosen
and only files supplied by the image can be installed.

Your concern is inexperienced newcomers and your argument is, I believe,
for d-i to issue a fatal error and not allow any further steps to be
taken on the road to installation. That's in spite of an earlier message
about firmware being required. This seems superfluous and over the top.
Note also that network configuration can fail for reasons other than
missing firmware.

> Then it tells you the base system is installed, and it needs to
> reboot. It ejects the media and reboots into the installer. You can

I have *never* seen d-i of itself requesting a reboot after the base
system is installed when the network is not set up. Are we using the
same installer?

> choose to quit at this point by choosing "back"rather than "continue"
> possibly more than once being needed. That is what I mean by "backing
> out" to deliberately get a base system install only. So, yes, I am
> talking about the second stage after it has installed the base system.

It moves on to configuring the package manager and installing software.
The installer knows there is no network so the only choice of software
is "standard system utilities". By now the newcomer might begin to twig
that not having the network wasn't the best of stategies.

> If some beginner continued on past the reboot without a configured NIC
> they are given a list of mirrors, but will be unable to select and
> connect to one successfully. The installation fails at this point,
> being unable to continue, stuck in an infinite loop of failed mirror
> selection. They have a Debian base system installation now, their old
> OS overwritten, and no network capability to get the information they
> need to fix the problem. And that assumes they are even capable of
> working with the command line to to fix it - and most beginners are
> not. 

No mirror list is offered; the installer knows better than to do that
when there is no network. Are we using the same installer?

> My argument is that the failure to configure a NIC in the first stage
> of the installer should be a fatal, show-stopping error with
> appropriate messaging to the user that no NIC is configured and
> non-free firmware is required. This would prevent many failed
> installations, while not preventing advanced users from quitting the
> installer after the base system is installed.

A fatal error is a fatal error. No one can move past it.

Don't misunderstand me. There is a messiness to the firmware situation
but it is not solved by preventing d-i doing its job. The install might
not be exactly what some wanted but it is not a failure. The system will
be fully functioning and open to enhancement. A triumph for the
installer you might say. ;)

-- 
Brian.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179271 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromSteve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
Date2017-03-24 19:40 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toChY-5vt-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179230
Catherine Gramze wrote:>
>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 9:22 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Catherine, I'm curious - when was the last time you installed Debian
>> using d-i? I've now seen you several times write (like above) about
>> "backing out of the installer after the reboot". Are you talking about
>> a second stage of d-i after it's installed the base system?
>> 
>My last Debian netinst installation was January 11, 2017.
>
>Very early in the installation the installer looks for a network card
>to configure. If you have a NIC that will not function without
>non-free firmware this step fails, and the installer says it failed,
>but the installer still allows you to continue with the installation,
>installing all the base system files.

OK, yes.

>Then it tells you the base system is installed, and it needs to
>reboot. It ejects the media and reboots into the installer. You can
>choose to quit at this point by choosing "back"rather than "continue"
>possibly more than once being needed. That is what I mean by "backing
>out" to deliberately get a base system install only.  So, yes, I am
>talking about the second stage after it has installed the base
>system.

Ummm, this is the bit where I don't see what you're seeing: "reboots
into the installer". And I've been developing and testing d-i for a
number of years. We *used* to have the two-reboot setup:

 1. boot the installer from media to do basic setup
 2. boot into that new basic system to continue selecting and
    installing new packages

but that went away years ago. At the end of the single installer run,
it should be finished. Do you mean "reboots into the newly installed
system" instead, maybe?

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
< liw> everything I know about UK hotels I learned from "Fawlty Towers"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179282 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCatherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com>
Date2017-03-24 21:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toDH3-6EU-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179271

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 24, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
> 
> but that went away years ago. At the end of the single installer run,
> it should be finished. Do you mean "reboots into the newly installed
> system" instead, maybe?
> 
Yes, it boots into that bare bones system before it has you select a mirror.
Cathy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179288 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2017-03-24 23:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toFzc-83Q-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179282
On Fri 24 Mar 2017 at 15:44:15 (-0400), Catherine Gramze wrote:
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On Mar 24, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
> > 
> > but that went away years ago. At the end of the single installer run,
> > it should be finished. Do you mean "reboots into the newly installed
> > system" instead, maybe?
> > 
> Yes, it boots into that bare bones system before it has you select a mirror.

Here's the netinst installation menu after Advanced/Expert options
have been chosen. The asterisks are mine, and show what's probably
the most typical path from start to finish (in order).
At which step is the reboot?

    ┌─────────┤ [?] Debian installer main menu ├─────────┐
    │                                                    │
    │ Choose the next step in the install process:       │
    │                                                    │
    │ * Choose language                                  │
    │ * Configure the keyboard                           │
    │ * Detect and mount CD-ROM                          │
    │ * Load installer components from CD                │
    │ * Detect network hardware                          │
    │ * Configure the network                            │
    │ * Set up users and passwords                       │
    │ * Configure the clock                              │
    │ * Detect disks                                     │
    │ * Partition disks                                  │
    │ * Install the base system                          │
    │ * Configure the package manager                    │
    │ * Select and install software                      │
    │ * Install the GRUB boot loader on a hard disk      │
    │   Install the LILO boot loader on a hard disk      │
    │   Continue without boot loader                     │
    │ * Finish the installation                          │
    │   Change debconf priority                          │
    │   Check the CD-ROM(s) integrity                    │
    │   Save debug logs                                  │
    │   Execute a shell                                  │
    │   Eject a CD from the drive                        │
    │   Abort the installation                           │
    │                                                    │
    └────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

Cheers,
David.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179291 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCatherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com>
Date2017-03-25 00:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toGvf-ij-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179288
> On Mar 24, 2017, at 6:05 PM, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri 24 Mar 2017 at 15:44:15 (-0400), Catherine Gramze wrote:
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Mar 24, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> but that went away years ago. At the end of the single installer run,
>>> it should be finished. Do you mean "reboots into the newly installed
>>> system" instead, maybe?
>>> 
>> Yes, it boots into that bare bones system before it has you select a mirror.
> 
> Here's the netinst installation menu after Advanced/Expert options
> have been chosen. The asterisks are mine, and show what's probably
> the most typical path from start to finish (in order).
> At which step is the reboot?
> 
Between "Install the base system" and "Configure package manager." It boots to the installed base system after ejecting the netinst cd/dvd. You can miss it if you are not watching.

Cathy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179292 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromSteve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
Date2017-03-25 02:50 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toJ05-1WW-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179291
Catherine Gramze wrote:
> On Mar 24, 2017, at 6:05 PM, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
>> Here's the netinst installation menu after Advanced/Expert options
>> have been chosen. The asterisks are mine, and show what's probably
>> the most typical path from start to finish (in order).
>> At which step is the reboot?
>> 
>Between "Install the base system" and "Configure package manager." It
>boots to the installed base system after ejecting the netinst
>cd/dvd. You can miss it if you are not watching.

There are really no reboots at that point in the installer! The
installer runs through multiple steps directly in order:

 ...
 Partition disks
 Install the base system
 Configure the package manager
 Select and install software
 ...

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
< liw> everything I know about UK hotels I learned from "Fawlty Towers"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179293 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2017-03-25 03:50 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toJWa-2BW-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179291
On Fri 24 Mar 2017 at 18:46:43 (-0400), Catherine Gramze wrote:
> 
> > On Mar 24, 2017, at 6:05 PM, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Fri 24 Mar 2017 at 15:44:15 (-0400), Catherine Gramze wrote:
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >> 
> >>> On Mar 24, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> but that went away years ago. At the end of the single installer run,
> >>> it should be finished. Do you mean "reboots into the newly installed
> >>> system" instead, maybe?
> >>> 
> >> Yes, it boots into that bare bones system before it has you select a mirror.
> > 
> > Here's the netinst installation menu after Advanced/Expert options
> > have been chosen. The asterisks are mine, and show what's probably
> > the most typical path from start to finish (in order).
> > At which step is the reboot?
> > 
> Between "Install the base system" and "Configure package manager." It boots to the installed base system after ejecting the netinst cd/dvd. You can miss it if you are not watching.

I think you must be running a different installer. Or are you saying
that the installation kernel can reboot without disturbing the
processes that are running?

I've just installed a machine with 260046848 Jan 16 05:01 debian-8.7.1-amd64-netinst.iso
whose SHA512 is 534795785d2706e64e3a4dff9648fd0302a1272c668a99a81ba3a984695986ac814d8193c5335bd13dce0592fc470eebe9fc4a6c9991f87a6686329a667ac30d

You've already seen its menu. Here are some process lists taken during
installation. Obviously I used the ssh installation method with a
fully configured NIC; therefore you can see _two_ ssh daemons, one
(4927) running the installation itself, and one (4998) running the
shell with which I ran ps.

It's quite clear that these two processes are running from start to
finish with no rebooting. A staggering number of processes run in
the meantime. BTW I left in the Task Selection menu as it first
appears, for reference.

Sorry the post is so long…

-- Set up users and passwords prompt (first command with ssh):

BusyBox v1.22.1 (Debian 1:1.22.0-9+deb8u1) built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

~ # ps
  PID USER       VSZ STAT COMMAND
    1 root      4072 S    /bin/busybox init
…
  194 root     48848 S    debconf -o d-i /usr/bin/main-menu
  200 root     10220 S    /usr/bin/main-menu
 4884 root     19608 S    /usr/sbin/sshd
 4927 root     23820 S    sshd: installer@pts/1
 4928 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 4936 root     49992 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 4942 root     10684 S    main-menu
 4996 root         0 SW   [kworker/0:2]
 4997 root         0 SW   [kworker/0:0]
 4998 root     23820 R    sshd: installer@pts/2
 4999 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 5007 root     49860 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 5013 root      6460 S    udpkg --configure --force-configure di-utils-shell
 5014 root      4544 S    {di-utils-shell.} /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/di-util
 5015 root      4544 S    {start-shell} /bin/sh /bin/start-shell di-utils-shel
 5016 root      4540 S    sh -c /bin/sh
 5017 root      4544 S    /bin/sh
 5018 root      4544 R    ps
~ # 

-- Kernel version prompt:

…
  194 root     48848 S    debconf -o d-i /usr/bin/main-menu
  200 root     10220 S    /usr/bin/main-menu
 4884 root     19608 S    /usr/sbin/sshd
 4927 root     23820 S    sshd: installer@pts/1
 4928 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 4936 root     53380 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 4942 root     10688 S    main-menu
 4998 root     23820 R    sshd: installer@pts/2
 4999 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 5007 root     49860 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 5013 root      6460 S    udpkg --configure --force-configure di-utils-shell
 5014 root      4544 S    {di-utils-shell.} /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/di-util
 5015 root      4544 S    {start-shell} /bin/sh /bin/start-shell di-utils-shel
 5016 root      4540 S    sh -c /bin/sh
 5017 root      4544 S    /bin/sh
…
 9355 root      6460 S    udpkg --configure --force-configure bootstrap-base
 9356 root      4544 S    {bootstrap-base.} /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/bootstr
16890 root         0 SW   [kauditd]
25120 root         0 SW   [kworker/u8:1]
26303 root      4544 R    ps
~ # 

-- Configure the package manager prompt:

…
  200 root     10220 S    /usr/bin/main-menu
  448 root      4544 R    ps
 4884 root     19608 S    /usr/sbin/sshd
 4927 root     23820 S    sshd: installer@pts/1
 4928 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 4936 root     53480 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 4942 root     10684 S    main-menu
 4998 root     23820 R    sshd: installer@pts/2
 4999 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 5007 root     49860 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 5013 root      6460 S    udpkg --configure --force-configure di-utils-shell
 5014 root      4544 S    {di-utils-shell.} /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/di-util
 5015 root      4544 S    {start-shell} /bin/sh /bin/start-shell di-utils-shel
 5016 root      4540 S    sh -c /bin/sh
 5017 root      4544 S    /bin/sh
…
~ # 

-- Select and install software prompt:

…
  194 root     48848 S    debconf -o d-i /usr/bin/main-menu
  200 root     10220 S    /usr/bin/main-menu
  449 root         0 SW   [kworker/0:1]
  597 root         0 SW   [kworker/0:0]
 1579 root      4544 R    ps
 4884 root     19608 S    /usr/sbin/sshd
 4927 root     23820 S    sshd: installer@pts/1
 4928 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 4936 root     53656 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 4942 root     10684 S    main-menu
 4998 root     23820 R    sshd: installer@pts/2
 4999 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 5007 root     49860 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 5013 root      6460 S    udpkg --configure --force-configure di-utils-shell
 5014 root      4544 S    {di-utils-shell.} /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/di-util
 5015 root      4544 S    {start-shell} /bin/sh /bin/start-shell di-utils-shel
 5016 root      4540 S    sh -c /bin/sh
 5017 root      4544 S    /bin/sh
…
~ # 

-- PopCon prompt:

…
  194 root     48848 S    debconf -o d-i /usr/bin/main-menu
  200 root     10220 S    /usr/bin/main-menu
  597 root         0 SW   [kworker/0:0]
 1580 root      6460 S    udpkg --configure --force-configure pkgsel
 1581 root      4544 S    {pkgsel.postinst} /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/pkgsel.
 4884 root     19608 S    /usr/sbin/sshd
 4927 root     23820 S    sshd: installer@pts/1
 4928 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 4936 root     53760 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 4942 root     10688 S    main-menu
 4998 root     23820 R    sshd: installer@pts/2
 4999 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 5007 root     49860 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 5013 root      6460 S    udpkg --configure --force-configure di-utils-shell
 5014 root      4544 S    {di-utils-shell.} /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/di-util
 5015 root      4544 S    {start-shell} /bin/sh /bin/start-shell di-utils-shel
 5016 root      4540 S    sh -c /bin/sh
 5017 root      4544 S    /bin/sh
…
 6764 root      6320 S    log-output -t pkgsel /usr/lib/pre-pkgsel.d/90popcon
 6765 root      4540 S    {90popcon} /bin/sh /usr/lib/pre-pkgsel.d/90popcon
 6766 root      4544 S    {apt-install} /bin/sh /bin/apt-install --no-recommen
 6767 root      4540 S    {in-target} /bin/sh /bin/in-target sh -c debconf-apt
 6817 root      6320 S    log-output -t in-target chroot /target sh -c debconf
 6818 root      4336 S    sh -c debconf-apt-progress --no-progress --logstderr
 6819 root     61400 S    {frontend} /usr/bin/perl -w /usr/share/debconf/front
 6821 root     29200 S    {debconf-apt-pro} /usr/bin/perl -w /usr/bin/debconf-
 6822 root     61568 S    apt-get -o APT::Status-Fd=4 -o APT::Keep-Fds::=5 -o
 6827 root     28268 S    /usr/lib/apt/methods/cdrom
 6828 root         0 Z    [dpkg]
 6829 root      4336 S    /bin/sh -c /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure --apt || true
 6830 root     62848 S    {dpkg-preconfigu} /usr/bin/perl -w /usr/sbin/dpkg-pr
 6832 root         0 Z    [dpkg-preconfigu]
 6839 root      4336 S    {popularity-cont} /bin/sh /tmp/popularity-contest.co
 6840 root         0 SW   [kworker/0:1]
 6841 root      4544 R    ps
…
~ # 

--
┌──────────────────────────────────────┤ [!] Software selection ├───────────────────────────────────────┐
│                                                                                                       │
│ At the moment, only the core of the system is installed. To tune the system to your needs, you can    │
│ choose to install one or more of the following predefined collections of software.                    │
│                                                                                                       │
│ Choose software to install:                                                                           │
│                                                                                                       │
│                                     [*] Debian desktop environment                                    │
│                                     [ ] ... GNOME                                                     │
│                                     [ ] ... Xfce                                                      │
│                                     [ ] ... KDE                                                       │
│                                     [ ] ... Cinnamon                                                  │
│                                     [ ] ... MATE                                                      │
│                                     [ ] ... LXDE                                                      │
│                                     [ ] web server                                                    │
│                                     [*] print server                                                  │
│                                     [ ] SSH server                                                    │
│                                     [*] standard system utilities                                     │
│                                                                                                       │
│     <Go Back>                                                                          <Continue>     │
│                                                                                                       │
└───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

-- Install GRUB prompt:

…
  194 root     48848 S    debconf -o d-i /usr/bin/main-menu
  200 root     10220 S    /usr/bin/main-menu
 4884 root     19608 S    /usr/sbin/sshd
 4927 root     23820 S    sshd: installer@pts/1
 4928 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 4936 root     56100 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 4942 root     10684 S    main-menu
 4998 root     23820 R    sshd: installer@pts/2
 4999 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 5007 root     49860 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 5013 root      6460 S    udpkg --configure --force-configure di-utils-shell
 5014 root      4544 S    {di-utils-shell.} /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/di-util
 5015 root      4544 S    {start-shell} /bin/sh /bin/start-shell di-utils-shel
 5016 root      4540 S    sh -c /bin/sh
 5017 root      4544 S    /bin/sh
…
25598 root      4544 R    ps
~ # 

-- Finish the installation:

…
  194 root     48848 S    debconf -o d-i /usr/bin/main-menu
  200 root     10220 S    /usr/bin/main-menu
 4884 root     19608 S    /usr/sbin/sshd
 4927 root     23820 S    sshd: installer@pts/1
 4928 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 4936 root     56100 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 4942 root     10684 S    main-menu
 4998 root     23820 R    sshd: installer@pts/2
 4999 root      4540 S    {debian-installe} /bin/sh /sbin/debian-installer /bi
 5007 root     49860 S    debconf -o d-i /bin/network-console-menu
 5013 root      6460 S    udpkg --configure --force-configure di-utils-shell
 5014 root      4544 S    {di-utils-shell.} /bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/di-util
 5015 root      4544 S    {start-shell} /bin/sh /bin/start-shell di-utils-shel
 5016 root      4540 S    sh -c /bin/sh
 5017 root      4544 S    /bin/sh
…
30103 root      4544 R    ps
~ # 

Cheers,
David.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179245 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2017-03-24 13:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<towcy-1kb-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179221
On 03/23/2017 05:18 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote:
> [ *SNIP* ]
> A complete Debian dvd set does NOT solve the unrecognized network
> problem; only the unofficial iso downloads that include the non-free
> firmware do. The same issue was present the last time I used a
> complete  12 dvd set, which was years ago. We need to do all we can,
> within the  limits of the Debian commitment to FOSS, to make Debian
> easier to  install, not harder. If anybody must be inconvenienced,
> make it theusers best equipped to work around it.
>

I suspect that statement is factually incorrect.
I've been using *ONLY* multi-DVD sets to install Debian [since Squeeze].
Who would want to install something the size of Debian via dial-up?
My machines had recognized hardware, but nothing to connect to.
Also my latest Jessie was on a new {to me ;} Lenovo T510. Its WiFi chip 
set is not supported and I'm give the option to obtain the non-free 
driver required or to proceed without. By analogy I would assume the 
same logic is in the network discovery process. Especially since I can 
opt out of the network discovery process by pressing "Enter" a half 
dozen times which then asks I wish to proceed without network access.

I may download the netinst *image* [ CD v. DVD is specious, only way to 
do it is a netinst flash drive ;]. It might be just the ticket for some 
of my minimalist experiments.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179249 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2017-03-24 15:00 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toxV0-2ms-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179245
On 03/24/2017 07:07 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 03/23/2017 05:18 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote:
>> [ *SNIP* ]
>> A complete Debian dvd set does NOT solve the unrecognized network
>> problem; only the unofficial iso downloads that include the non-free
>> firmware do. The same issue was present the last time I used a
>> complete  12 dvd set, which was years ago. We need to do all we can,
>> within the  limits of the Debian commitment to FOSS, to make Debian
>> easier to  install, not harder. If anybody must be inconvenienced,
>> make it theusers best equipped to work around it.
>>
>
> I suspect that statement is factually incorrect.
> I've been using *ONLY* multi-DVD sets to install Debian [since Squeeze].
> Who would want to install something the size of Debian via dial-up?
> My machines had recognized hardware, but nothing to connect to.
> Also my latest Jessie was on a new {to me ;} Lenovo T510. Its WiFi chip
> set is not supported and I'm give the option to obtain the non-free
> driver required or to proceed without. By analogy I would assume the
> same logic is in the network discovery process. Especially since I can
> opt out of the network discovery process by pressing "Enter" a half
> dozen times which then asks I wish to proceed without network access.
>
> I may download the netinst *image* [ CD v. DVD is specious, only way
> to do it is a netinst flash drive ;]. It might be just the ticket for
> some of my minimalist experiments.

I just downloaded the netinst image and placed on a flash drive.
I ran it with my internet access disabled by unplugging it to simulate 
no suitable NIC. I saw no problem with how the lack of a functional 
internet connection was handled.

Some small text only might make it feel more newbie friendly.
1. Add a link on debian.org in the box with the link to download
    netinst. Have it lead to a short page describing the netinst pkg.
2. Modify the text displayed when the lack of internet connection is
    found to explicitly state that proceeding will give a system with
    command line interface and no a GUI.

That installer does produce a system very suitable for my minimalist 
experiments. When I order my next multi-DVD set, I'll add it to the order.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179251 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromLisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-24 16:00 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toyR3-34l-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179245
On Friday 24 March 2017 12:07:59 Richard Owlett wrote:
> It might be just the ticket for some
> of my minimalist experiments.

;-)

It would.  The other minimalist install media have mostly gone by the board. 

I have just checked, and amazingly LNX-BBC (Linux Bootable Business Card) and 
DSL (Damn Small Linux) seem still to be alive and kicking.  And to need a CD 
or a USB stick.

Not all old computers will boot from a USB stick, Richard.

Lisi

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179267 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2017-03-24 19:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toBOV-5jj-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179208
On 2017-03-23, Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 2:03 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Please calm down, why the aggression? :-(
>
> Lisi is incensed with my suggestion that the netinst installer should refuse to continue if no network c Cathy

I'd just wish you'd wrap your lines in accordance to rule number 87 of the
"Debian Etiquette Guidelines," by I.M. Sikothis.


-- 
"It might be a vision--of a shell, of a wheelbarrow, of a fairy kingdom on the
far side of the hedge; or it might be the glory of speed; no one knew." --Mrs.
Ramsay, speculating on why her little daughter might be dashing about, in "To
the Lighthouse," by Virginia Woolf.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179273 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCatherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com>
Date2017-03-24 20:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toCL0-5Yy-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179267



Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 24, 2017, at 2:08 PM, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:
> 
> I'd just wish you'd wrap your lines in accordance to rule number 87 of the
> "Debian Etiquette Guidelines," by I.M. Sikothis.

Thank you for mentioning this. I was not aware that my iPad does not wrap 
lines appropriately for everybody. I am using hard returns to wrap this to fit
your display. Let me know if this creates odd wrapping issues for other people.
There is unfortunately no way to manually adjust the automatic line wrap.

Cathy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179276 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2017-03-24 20:40 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toDe2-6aU-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179273
On 2017-03-24, Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>> On Mar 24, 2017, at 2:08 PM, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:
>> 
>> I'd just wish you'd wrap your lines in accordance to rule number 87 of the
>> "Debian Etiquette Guidelines," by I.M. Sikothis.
>
> Thank you for mentioning this. I was not aware that my iPad does not wrap 
> lines appropriately for everybody. I am using hard returns to wrap this to fit
> your display. Let me know if this creates odd wrapping issues for other people.
> There is unfortunately no way to manually adjust the automatic line wrap.

Wonderfully reactive and readable. Thanks.

> Cathy
>


-- 
"It might be a vision--of a shell, of a wheelbarrow, of a fairy kingdom on the
far side of the hedge; or it might be the glory of speed; no one knew." --Mrs.
Ramsay, speculating on why her little daughter might be dashing about, in "To
the Lighthouse," by Virginia Woolf.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179205 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromSteve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
Date2017-03-23 19:00 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tofbH-5C2-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179203
Catherine Gramze wrote:
>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry, what? There's no such animal as a netinst dvd... The netinst is
>> a minimal-ish (small) CD-sized image that just contains the installer
>> and the (very limited) base system. The DVDs we make are much more
>> complete.
>
>When you burn the netinst iso to a dvd, because you can't buy blank
>cds anymore in any local stores, you have a netinst dvd. I can't
>remember the last time I saw a cd in the wild.

Ah, thanks for explaining what you meant. I was a little confused. :-)

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
< liw> everything I know about UK hotels I learned from "Fawlty Towers"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179210 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

Fromsongbird <songbird@anthive.com>
Date2017-03-23 19:50 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tofY6-6kc-31@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179203
Catherine Gramze wrote:
...
> When you burn the netinst iso to a dvd, because you can't buy blank cds anymore in any local stores, you have a netinst dvd. I can't remember the last time I saw a cd in the wild.

  i just saw piles of them available at Best Buy.

  plus i'd be very surprised if you could not find 
them available on-line.  have you actually looked?


  songbird

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179240 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromJonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org>
Date2017-03-24 11:30 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<touDL-64-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179210

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 02:33:00PM -0400, songbird wrote:
> Catherine Gramze wrote:
> ...
> > When you burn the netinst iso to a dvd, because you can't buy blank cds anymore in any local stores, you have a netinst dvd. I can't remember the last time I saw a cd in the wild.
> 
>   i just saw piles of them available at Best Buy.
> 
>   plus i'd be very surprised if you could not find 
> them available on-line.  have you actually looked?

...this is getting further and further from any sort of point, all in the name
of being "correct on the Internet". *Why bother* buying CD-rs if you don't need
them?

-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ 
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179214 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromFred <fred@blakemfg.com>
Date2017-03-23 20:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<toghs-6GO-31@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179203
On 03/23/2017 09:48 AM, Catherine Gramze wrote:
>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
>>
>> Catherine Gramze wrote:
>>>> On Mar 20, 2017, at 10:02 PM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Particularly where you have encountered it where it takes you past the point
>>>> of no retreat before you discover that you need a network driver, so that you
>>>> have wiped your old install and cannot continue to install your new one.
>>>>
>>> How about the last time I installed Debian using a netinst dvd?
>> Sorry, what? There's no such animal as a netinst dvd... The netinst is
>> a minimal-ish (small) CD-sized image that just contains the installer
>> and the (very limited) base system. The DVDs we make are much more
>> complete.
> When you burn the netinst iso to a dvd, because you can't buy blank cds anymore in any local stores, you have a netinst dvd. I can't remember the last time I saw a cd in the wild.
>
Walmart sells them.  Until recently (like maybe 6 months) they still 
sold blank VHS tapes.

Best regards,
Fred

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#179200 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromSteve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
Date2017-03-23 17:40 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<todWi-4QN-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179058
rhiamom@mac.com wrote:
>> 
>> If run from Jessie's DVD 1 of 13, if Desktop is selected but
>> without a specific D.E. selected, you get Gnome.
>> 
>You only get Gnome if you have first selected a mirror.

Ummm, I've done this lots of times - DVD 1 should give you Gnome
without needing any external package sources.

<snip>

>The hard part is determining whether the firmware is needed to
>function, or to allow enhanced function. I get a firmware notice for
>my network card, but it works without it, albeit more slowly than
>with it.

It's very difficult to know. There can be lots of variations on the
hardware that's shipped. Some variants need firmware, some don't; some
will be faster with firmware added as it will turn on hardware
acceleration features. And some crappy vendors give no way at all for
software to know which variant you have. :-/

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
< liw> everything I know about UK hotels I learned from "Fawlty Towers"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 5 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user


csiph-web