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Groups > linux.debian.user > #178929 > unrolled thread

Re: Suggested edit

Started byAdrian O'Dell <crimsonmane@gmail.com>
First post2017-03-16 16:30 +0100
Last post2017-03-21 16:00 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 118 — 23 participants

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Contents

  Re: Suggested edit Adrian O'Dell <crimsonmane@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:30 +0100
    Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-16 17:10 +0100
      Re: Suggested edit Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-17 15:30 +0100
        Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-17 16:40 +0100
          Re: Suggested edit Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 17:10 +0100
            Re: Suggested edit Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 18:00 +0100
              Re: Suggested edit Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-17 18:40 +0100
              Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-17 18:50 +0100
                Re: Suggested edit Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 19:00 +0100
              Re: Suggested edit Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-20 11:00 +0100
            Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-17 18:10 +0100
          Re: Suggested edit Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-17 18:50 +0100
          installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-20 10:50 +0100
            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 21:10 +0100
              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-20 21:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-20 22:20 +0100
                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 01:00 +0100
                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 01:40 +0100
                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 03:10 +0100
                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 04:20 +0100
                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 11:40 +0100
                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 16:00 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 16:20 +0100
                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 18:40 +0100
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 19:10 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-21 19:50 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-03-22 10:20 +0100
                                      Re: cell phone .sigs (was: installer defaults for desktops) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-22 10:50 +0100
                                        Re: cell phone .sigs (was: installer defaults for desktops) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-03-22 11:20 +0100
                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2017-04-01 18:50 +0200
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 19:10 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 20:00 +0100
                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 21:00 +0100
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 19:20 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 20:10 +0100
                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 20:20 +0100
                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 21:10 +0100
                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-22 00:30 +0100
                                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-22 02:10 +0100
                                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-03-22 04:10 +0100
                                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-22 13:10 +0100
                                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-22 13:20 +0100
                                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-03-22 13:30 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2017-03-24 07:30 +0100
                                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-24 11:20 +0100
                                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2017-03-24 17:30 +0100
                                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-24 18:40 +0100
                                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 11:30 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-23 13:00 +0100
                                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 13:40 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-23 22:00 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 11:30 +0100
                                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-24 13:10 +0100
                                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:20 +0100
                                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:20 +0100
                                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-24 19:30 +0100
                                                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 10:20 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-24 11:30 +0100
                                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-22 17:10 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 20:20 +0100
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-21 20:10 +0100
                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 16:00 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-21 17:50 +0100
                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 17:40 +0100
                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-23 18:10 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 18:40 +0100
                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 19:10 +0100
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 19:40 +0100
                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-23 19:40 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 19:50 +0100
                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-23 23:40 +0100
                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 23:50 +0100
                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 00:20 +0100
                                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 00:40 +0100
                                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 01:40 +0100
                                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 02:30 +0100
                                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 05:30 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 08:50 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-24 19:30 +0100
                                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 20:50 +0100
                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-24 02:30 +0100
                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 03:40 +0100
                                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 15:50 +0100
                                            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-24 19:40 +0100
                                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 21:10 +0100
                                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 23:10 +0100
                                                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-25 00:10 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-25 02:50 +0100
                                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-25 03:50 +0100
                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-24 13:10 +0100
                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-24 15:00 +0100
                                          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:00 +0100
                                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-24 19:10 +0100
                                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 20:10 +0100
                                        Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-24 20:40 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 19:00 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-03-23 19:50 +0100
                                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-24 11:30 +0100
                              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Fred <fred@blakemfg.com> - 2017-03-23 20:10 +0100
                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 17:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 00:50 +0100
                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-21 01:40 +0100
                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 03:10 +0100
                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-21 11:40 +0100
                        [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested  edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-22 15:10 +0100
                          Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 15:30 +0100
                            Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-22 16:00 +0100
                              Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 16:40 +0100
                                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-22 18:30 +0100
                                  Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 18:50 +0100
                                    Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 17:50 +0100
                                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2017-04-01 20:10 +0200
                                  Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 20:50 +0200
                                  Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 22:30 +0200
                                    Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 23:10 +0200
                      Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 12:10 +0100
                  Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 13:00 +0100
                    Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 16:00 +0100

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#179083 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromLisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-21 11:40 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnpmO-24D-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179076
On Tuesday 21 March 2017 02:58:50 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> The installer allows you to continue the installation without a configured
> network card, and it shouldn't.

Of course it should *allow* you to do so.  And it does warn you.  Not allow 
you indeed!

People open viruses, help telephone scammers to rob them of their life savings 
etc.  There is a limit to how far the nanny "state" should protect people 
from themselves.  This precise point - that it decides what you must do, 
rather than let you decide, is what I personally dislike about Ubuntu.  
People do utterly idiotic things, and in the free world they have to be 
allowed to do so.

Lisi

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#179106 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromLisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-21 16:00 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tntqq-4H9-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179083
On Tuesday 21 March 2017 14:33:29 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> Refusing to continue an installation that will inevitably be a failure is
> how it should act.

Rot.  It will not "inevitably be a failure".  It can be a very good way out of 
some problems.

Lisi

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#179111 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromGreg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
Date2017-03-21 16:20 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tntJM-55L-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179106
On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:55:07PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 March 2017 14:33:29 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> > Refusing to continue an installation that will inevitably be a failure is
> > how it should act.
> 
> Rot.  It will not "inevitably be a failure".  It can be a very good way out of 
> some problems.

Agreed.  Some people may want to install Debian on a computer that
doesn't have a network interface *at all*.  They should be able to do so.
They *are* able to do so.

You know what I would change?  I would have the installer put a default
set of deb and deb-src lines into sources.list, but commented out, when
this happens, instead of leaving sources.list basically unconfigured
and requiring the user to research what SHOULD have been put there (and
usually getting it wrong).

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#179114 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCatherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com>
Date2017-03-21 18:40 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnvVf-6v1-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179111

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:55:07PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 21 March 2017 14:33:29 Catherine Gramze wrote:
>>> Refusing to continue an installation that will inevitably be a failure is
>>> how it should act.
>> 
>> Rot.  It will not "inevitably be a failure".  It can be a very good way out of 
>> some problems.
> 
> Agreed.  Some people may want to install Debian on a computer that
> doesn't have a network interface *at all*.  They should be able to do so.
> They *are* able to do so.

Of course they should. But a netinst dvd or usb stick is not the best tool for that. The very name lets you know that a network is going to be needed. Netinst is not the only installer, you know.

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#179115 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromLisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-21 19:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnwoi-6UG-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179114
On Tuesday 21 March 2017 17:15:32 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> Sent from my iPad

Note it is sent from an iPad!  Open Source all the way!!!!!

Incidentally, why did we need to know that?

Lisi

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#179118 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromJonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org>
Date2017-03-21 19:50 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnx10-7bE-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179115

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 06:03:12PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 March 2017 17:15:32 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> > Sent from my iPad
> 
> Note it is sent from an iPad!  Open Source all the way!!!!!
> 
> Incidentally, why did we need to know that?

It's about as relevant to this list as your reply (and mine).
We're now as bad as each other. Hopefully the matter can rest.

-- 
Jonathan Dowland
Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

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#179142 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromDarac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk>
Date2017-03-22 10:20 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnKAW-72-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179115

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 06:03:12PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>On Tuesday 21 March 2017 17:15:32 Catherine Gramze wrote:
>> Sent from my iPad
>
>Note it is sent from an iPad!  Open Source all the way!!!!!
>
>Incidentally, why did we need to know that?

These sorts of signatures are usually used on mobile devices for a 
number of reasons:

 - Typing on a mobile tends to be less comfortable, or at least slower, 
 than typing on a full-size keyboard. This lends to shorter, less 
 detailed replies. The signature acts as a warning that "I'm not being 
 brusque, I just don't have the capacity to state my case more 
 loquaciously."

 - Many mobile clients seem to restrict what you can put in a signature.  
 You generally can't use formatting (as company branding might require), 
 you often can't even use multiple lines. And if you want to read your 
 signature from a pipe (so as to include a witty "fortune")? Good luck!

>
>Lisi
>

-- 
For more information, please reread.

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#179144 — Re: cell phone .sigs (was: installer defaults for desktops)

FromFelix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Date2017-03-22 10:50 +0100
SubjectRe: cell phone .sigs (was: installer defaults for desktops)
Message-ID<tnL3X-if-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179142
Darac Marjal composed on 2017-03-22 09:10 (UTC):

> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 18:03:12 +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:

>>Incidentally, why did we need to know that?

> These sorts of signatures are usually used on mobile devices for a
> number of reasons:

>  - Typing on a mobile tends to be less comfortable, or at least slower,
>  than typing on a full-size keyboard. This lends to shorter, less
>  detailed replies. The signature acts as a warning that "I'm not being
>  brusque, I just don't have the capacity to state my case more
>  loquaciously."

>  - Many mobile clients seem to restrict what you can put in a signature.
>  You generally can't use formatting (as company branding might require),
>  you often can't even use multiple lines. And if you want to read your
>  signature from a pipe (so as to include a witty "fortune")? Good luck!

We see them because the device owner isn't aware, doesn't care, or can't be 
bothered to replace the OEM .sig with one that identifies the device 
owner/sender rather than its maker.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#179146 — Re: cell phone .sigs (was: installer defaults for desktops)

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2017-03-22 11:20 +0100
SubjectRe: cell phone .sigs (was: installer defaults for desktops)
Message-ID<tnLx0-OB-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179144
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 05:41:51AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

[...]

> We see them because the device owner isn't aware, doesn't care, or
> can't be bothered to replace the OEM .sig [...]

Or perhaps (s)he isn't even allowed?

"I've been assimilated"

(SCNR)
- -- t
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAljST1oACgkQBcgs9XrR2kawlQCeN0XUCnf6oAoBDnKw06/7ii0u
ogQAoIEW3mKL2CFXOnFwfdAe7mRk4cJR
=EfHc
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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#179691 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

Fromcbannister@slingshot.co.nz
Date2017-04-01 18:50 +0200
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<trunU-5io-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179142
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 09:10:16AM +0000, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 06:03:12PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >On Tuesday 21 March 2017 17:15:32 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> >>Sent from my iPad
> >
> >Note it is sent from an iPad!  Open Source all the way!!!!!
> >
> >Incidentally, why did we need to know that?
> 
> These sorts of signatures are usually used on mobile devices for a number of
> reasons:
> 
> - Typing on a mobile tends to be less comfortable, or at least slower, than
> typing on a full-size keyboard. This lends to shorter, less detailed
> replies. The signature acts as a warning that "I'm not being brusque, I just
> don't have the capacity to state my case more loquaciously."
> 
> - Many mobile clients seem to restrict what you can put in a signature.  You
> generally can't use formatting (as company branding might require), you
> often can't even use multiple lines. And if you want to read your signature
> from a pipe (so as to include a witty "fortune")? Good luck!


IOW, it's an excuse for the following hard to read badly formatted text.

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

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#179116 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromLisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-21 19:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnwoj-6UG-33@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179114
On Tuesday 21 March 2017 17:15:32 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 21, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> >> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:55:07PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday 21 March 2017 14:33:29 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> >>> Refusing to continue an installation that will inevitably be a failure
> >>> is how it should act.
> >>
> >> Rot.  It will not "inevitably be a failure".  It can be a very good way
> >> out of some problems.
> >
> > Agreed.  Some people may want to install Debian on a computer that
> > doesn't have a network interface *at all*.  They should be able to do so.
> > They *are* able to do so.
>
> Of course they should. But a netinst dvd or usb stick is not the best tool
> for that. The very name lets you know that a network is going to be needed.
> Netinst is not the only installer, you know.

Yes, we do know.  You seem not to do so.  I specifically asked which installer 
you had used and were talking about.

Lisi

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#179119 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCatherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com>
Date2017-03-21 20:00 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnxaF-7fa-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179116

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 2:01 PM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Tuesday 21 March 2017 17:15:32 Catherine Gramze wrote:
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:55:07PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday 21 March 2017 14:33:29 Catherine Gramze wrote:
>>>>> Refusing to continue an installation that will inevitably be a failure
>>>>> is how it should act.
>>>> 
>>>> Rot.  It will not "inevitably be a failure".  It can be a very good way
>>>> out of some problems.
>>> 
>>> Agreed.  Some people may want to install Debian on a computer that
>>> doesn't have a network interface *at all*.  They should be able to do so.
>>> They *are* able to do so.
>> 
>> Of course they should. But a netinst dvd or usb stick is not the best tool
>> for that. The very name lets you know that a network is going to be needed.
>> Netinst is not the only installer, you know.
> 
> Yes, we do know.  You seem not to do so.  I specifically asked which installer 
> you had used and were talking about.
> 
And I specified it was the netinst about 8 posts ago, immediately in response to you asking. And I have repeatedly since then mentioned netinst. You might try reading what I say instead of skimming it for things to object to.

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#179125 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromLisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-21 21:00 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tny6K-7WE-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179119
On Tuesday 21 March 2017 18:38:44 Catherine Gramze wrote:
> And I specified it was the netinst about 8 posts ago, immediately in
> response to you asking. And I have repeatedly since then mentioned netinst.
> You might try reading what I say instead of skimming it for things to
> object to.

The one who doesn't read what anyone else says, and who thinks that only she 
is allowed to dictate, is you.

Though self-knowledge being every human's weak point, I'll accept pot and 
kettle, so long as you do too and stop telling everyone else what to do.

Lisi

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#179117 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromGreg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
Date2017-03-21 19:20 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnwxX-6Zw-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179114
On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 01:15:32PM -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:
> Of course they should. But a netinst dvd or usb stick is not the best tool for that. The very name lets you know that a network is going to be needed. Netinst is not the only installer, you know.

That doesn't mean the installer should refuse to work.  There is
absolutely nothing wrong with doing a minimal install using a netinst
image to get a working Debian system.  Maybe you want to do the first
part of the install on this machine in one location where there's no
network, and then carry the machine to another location to finish it up.
Maybe your network is temporarily slow or unreliable because your kids
are streaming YouTube, so you'll do the first part of the install now,
then wait a few hours to do the rest.  Maybe ALL YOU WANT is a minimal
system, and you have no intention of networking it, ever.  Maybe you
have some other goals that I can't even guess.  There's no reason for
the installer to REFUSE TO LET YOU DO THIS.  You are asking for Debian
to take away functionality for NO REASON.

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#179120 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCatherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com>
Date2017-03-21 20:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnxkl-7xz-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179117

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> 
> wrong

Then use a different installer! The netinst dvd leaves you with what would be considered a crippled system by most people. Requiring a functioning network card removes that possibility for the noob while still allowing an expert to simply back out of the installer when the computer reboots to get their desired base install. It is no harder than presently for an expert, and would serve to fix a lot of "failed" installations. 

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#179124 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromGreg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
Date2017-03-21 20:20 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnxu2-7Db-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179120
On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:44:42PM -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:
> > On Mar 21, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> > 
> > wrong
> 
> Then use a different installer!

No.  Stop telling other people what to do.  Stop trying to take away
OPTIONS from other people.

I will continue to use the netinst because that's what works for me.
Why the hell would I want to download a whole DVD image?

If you want to download 7 different install images and match the image
to the machine you're installing on, fine.  Have fun with that.  I won't
tell you what to do.

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#179126 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCatherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com>
Date2017-03-21 21:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnygp-8eX-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179124

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 3:10 PM, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:44:42PM -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:
>>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> wrong
>> 
>> Then use a different installer!
> 
> No.  Stop telling other people what to do.  Stop trying to take away
> OPTIONS from other people.
> 
> I will continue to use the netinst because that's what works for me.
> Why the hell would I want to download a whole DVD image?

Please explain how you think my suggestion takes away any installation options, because it doesn't. You can still do any type of installation you want.

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#179133 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2017-03-22 00:30 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnBnX-1Sh-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179126
On Tue 21 Mar 2017 at 15:44:18 (-0400), Catherine Gramze wrote:
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On Mar 21, 2017, at 3:10 PM, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:44:42PM -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:
> >>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> wrong
> >> 
> >> Then use a different installer!
> > 
> > No.  Stop telling other people what to do.  Stop trying to take away
> > OPTIONS from other people.
> > 
> > I will continue to use the netinst because that's what works for me.
> > Why the hell would I want to download a whole DVD image?
> 
> Please explain how you think my suggestion takes away any installation options, because it doesn't. You can still do any type of installation you want.

On Mon 20 Mar 2017 at 22:58:50 (-0400), Catherine Gramze wrote:
> 
[...]
> The installer allows you to continue the installation without a configured network card, and it shouldn't.

Please explain how this statement doesn't take away the option of
continuing the installation without a configured network card.

Cheers,
David.

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#179136 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromCatherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com>
Date2017-03-22 02:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnCWJ-31O-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179133

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:20 PM, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue 21 Mar 2017 at 15:44:18 (-0400), Catherine Gramze wrote:
>> 
>> The installer allows you to continue the installation without a configured network card, and it shouldn't.
> 
> Please explain how this statement doesn't take away the option of
> continuing the installation without a configured network card.

You are perfectly free to remove that $15 USB NIC after you reach the installation point you want. And don't even pretend that most people don't already have a spare NIC of some kind floating around their living space. 

Do you prefer that people move on to other distros after a base system only installation because the Debian installer let them inadvertently get there? When Debian is desperate for more involved people, who all start out as simple beginners? The point of Debian is not elitist snobbery, but universal access. 

What is wrong with a simple change that would make it clear to the beginner that they can't do what they want to do, and need to do some reading? It doesn't stop advanved users from using a different installation medium, or from using a temporarily installed NIC if they choose to use the netinst. This rabid insistence on being able to use the netinst installer without a network is ridiculous. 

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#179137 — Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

FromThe Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm>
Date2017-03-22 04:10 +0100
SubjectRe: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Message-ID<tnEOR-4iL-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#179136

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2017-03-21 at 20:52, Catherine Gramze wrote:

>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:20 PM, David Wright
>> <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue 21 Mar 2017 at 15:44:18 (-0400), Catherine Gramze wrote:
>>> 
>>> The installer allows you to continue the installation without a
>>> configured network card, and it shouldn't.
>> 
>> Please explain how this statement doesn't take away the option of 
>> continuing the installation without a configured network card.
> 
> You are perfectly free to remove that $15 USB NIC after you reach the
> installation point you want. And don't even pretend that most people
> don't already have a spare NIC of some kind floating around their
> living space.

Most people certainly don't.

_I_ don't, and I'm an IT professional who does occasional programming
and packaging work in my spare time, and builds and installs my own
computers from scratch.

To the best of my awareness, every single network device in this highly
technically literate household household (a good dozen active-use
computers, including the laptops, but not counting the servers) is
motherboard-integrated.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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