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Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

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  Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-17 14:50 +0100
    Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-17 15:30 +0100
    Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-03-17 17:20 +0100
      Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-17 21:40 +0100
        Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-17 22:00 +0100
          Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-17 23:30 +0100
          Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-18 18:40 +0100
            Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-18 19:00 +0100
              Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-18 20:30 +0100
                Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-19 00:20 +0100
                  Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-19 12:40 +0100
                    Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-19 14:20 +0100
                      Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-19 15:00 +0100
                        Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-20 05:30 +0100
                          Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-21 00:10 +0100
                            Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-21 02:30 +0100
                              Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-21 21:40 +0100
                                Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-22 11:00 +0100
                            Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 03:30 +0100
                              Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 13:20 +0100
                                Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 13:00 +0100
            Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-18 19:10 +0100
        Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-18 04:50 +0100
          Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-18 11:40 +0100
        Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-03-18 19:40 +0100
          Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-03-18 20:30 +0100
            Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-03-19 04:00 +0100
    Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-18 12:00 +0100
    An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when Synaptic  scans DVDs?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-23 02:10 +0100
      Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-23 10:50 +0100
      Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-03-23 11:20 +0100
        Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-23 12:30 +0100
          Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 22:40 +0100
            Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-25 12:00 +0100
              Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-26 00:30 +0100
                Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-26 13:40 +0200
                  Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-28 04:50 +0200
                    Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-28 18:20 +0200
                      Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-28 21:10 +0200
                      Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-29 20:20 +0200
            Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-25 14:10 +0100
              Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-25 22:10 +0100
                Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-26 14:30 +0200
      Re: An INCOMPLETE solution - was [Re: Where is data stored when  Synaptic scans DVDs?] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 19:40 +0100

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#178953 — Where is data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?

As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh 
install to a different partition.
It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
Where is the information stored?
/etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents 
of each DVD stored?
TIA

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#178954

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 08:47:01AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents of
> each DVD stored?

/var/cache/apt/* I believe

-- 
Jonathan Dowland
Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

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#178961

Richard Owlett wrote:
> As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
> Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh 
> install to a different partition.
> It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
> Where is the information stored?
> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents 
> of each DVD stored?

  man apt-get

  and as i've previously said, you can copy the
dvds to spinning rust or a SSD and avoid all
future needs to reload from them again...

  and futhermore, if you are doing partitions
you can do some minimal install to get the base
system going, then do a partition copy of that
and you'll not have to redo the previous steps
again to recover if you want to try something
else.


  songbird

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#178978

On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
>> Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
>> install to a different partition.
>> It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
>> Where is the information stored?
>> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
>> of each DVD stored?
>
>   man apt-get

It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the 
/var/lib/apt directory.

I hadn't thought of looking at apt-get when I posted, even though I had 
just chased down some differences on how synaptic and apt-get differed 
in how they logged some trans action. mea culpa ;>


>
>   and as i've previously said, you can copy the
> dvds to spinning rust or a SSD and avoid all
> future needs to reload from them again...

Yes but <smile>
in my peculiar situation it is better to know on which DVD something 
resides than to spend ~1000 times more storage space to duplicate the data.

>
>   and futhermore, if you are doing partitions
> you can do some minimal install to get the base
> system going, then do a partition copy of that
> and you'll not have to redo the previous steps
> again to recover if you want to try something
> else.
>
>
>   songbird
>
>

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#178980

On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
> >Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
> >>Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
> >>install to a different partition.
> >>It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
> >>Where is the information stored?
> >>/etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
> >>of each DVD stored?
> >
> >  man apt-get
> 
> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
> /var/lib/apt directory.

Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?

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#178981

On 03/17/2017 03:57 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
>>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> As I have limited bandwidth, I install from DVDs.
>>>> Also I frequently experiment with various options by doing a fresh
>>>> install to a different partition.
>>>> It is annoying to keep re-scanning a set of 13 DVDs.
>>>> Where is the information stored?
>>>> /etc/apt/sources.list is obvious, but where is the data about contents
>>>> of each DVD stored?
>>>
>>>  man apt-get
>>
>> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
>> /var/lib/apt directory.
>
> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
>
>

Who knows. I don't!
I has some, but is it all???????????

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#178996

Brian:
> On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
>> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
>>>
>>>  man apt-get
>>
>> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
>> /var/lib/apt directory.
> 
> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?

I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
around you?

-- 
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

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#178997

On Sat 18 Mar 2017 at 17:34:00 +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:

> Brian:
> > On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 15:29:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > 
> >> On 03/17/2017 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  man apt-get
> >>
> >> It implies *BUT DOES _NOT_ STATE* the all the requested data is in the
> >> /var/lib/apt directory.
> > 
> > Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
> 
> I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
> ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
> pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
> around you?

Nobody likes being shouted at; it is very upsetting. You can tell how
upset I was because I used "Is..." instead of "Are..." in my response.

> -- 
>  "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

You appear above to have made a case for boatyards and ships being a
close second.

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#179002

Brian:
>>> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
>>
>> I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
>> ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
>> pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
>> around you?
> 
> Nobody likes being shouted at; it is very upsetting. You can tell how
> upset I was because I used "Is..." instead of "Are..." in my response.

I don't what exactly you mean by this, I may have lost the connection.

>>  "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG
> 
> You appear above to have made a case for boatyards and ships being a
> close second.

I don't want to interpret what rEG said, as she said this more than 100
years ago, and things "may" have been different.
When most people speak of violence they tend to think of physical
violence, making verbal and psychological violence as a more acceptable
behavior.  It is almost like laundering in a form of violence, and
possibly rule by violence, that I consider unnecessary.

The state for one couldn't care less about who has the monopoly on
mental violence, it is the physical one that "it" is in control of.  If
you have the money or/and the power you can get away with any type of
violence.  Those are the conditions the economy and political structure
dictate and reproduce.  We can try to do better than this, in our
"communities" by not allowing such acts of violence.  Meaning, we must
discourage fascism (rule by violence) in any shape of form.  If you work
for Gates writing code it is OK for him to vent off on you and tell you
to stop pissing about and finish your work.  There is nothing you can do
about it.  If you work for the Mi5 they can tell you to stop pissing
about and get to snitching, subverting, and undermining as you are paid
to do.

All I can do is propose to have a less violent code of conduct.  You can
keep up with your ways and I can keep up being a pest about it!

Sometimes you just have to crush some eggs before the snakes come out
and bite you.

-- 
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

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#179006

On Sat 18 Mar 2017 at 19:23:00 +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:

> Brian:
> >>> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
> >>
> >> I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
> >> ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
> >> pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
> >> around you?
> > 
> > Nobody likes being shouted at; it is very upsetting. You can tell how
> > upset I was because I used "Is..." instead of "Are..." in my response.
> 
> I don't what exactly you mean by this, I may have lost the connection.

The word "data" is plural. Like "bacteria" or "criteria" or "nuclei" or
"dice".

- 
Brian.

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#179011

On 03/18/2017 06:13 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Sat 18 Mar 2017 at 19:23:00 +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
>
>> Brian:
>>>>> Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
>>>>
>>>> I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
>>>> ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
>>>> pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
>>>> around you?
>>>
>>> Nobody likes being shouted at; it is very upsetting. You can tell how
>>> upset I was because I used "Is..." instead of "Are..." in my response.
>>
>> I don't what exactly you mean by this, I may have lost the connection.
>
> The word "data" is plural. Like "bacteria" or "criteria" or "nuclei" or
> "dice".
>
> -
> Brian.
>
>

But "data", being a collective noun, may take either a singular or 
plural verb.
http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/SubjectVerb.html#collective
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001874.html

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#179012

On Sun 19 Mar 2017 at 06:35:59 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 03/18/2017 06:13 PM, Brian wrote:
> >On Sat 18 Mar 2017 at 19:23:00 +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> >
> >>Brian:
> >>>>>Stop pissing about. Is the data in /var/lib/apt or not?
> >>>>
> >>>>I use to have friends like you when I worked in boat yards .... and
> >>>>ships.  They seemed to behave better while talking to someone with a 4"
> >>>>pipe wrench in hand.  Is this what it is about?  Not having a wrench
> >>>>around you?
> >>>
> >>>Nobody likes being shouted at; it is very upsetting. You can tell how
> >>>upset I was because I used "Is..." instead of "Are..." in my response.
> >>
> >>I don't what exactly you mean by this, I may have lost the connection.
> >
> >The word "data" is plural. Like "bacteria" or "criteria" or "nuclei" or
> >"dice".
> >
> >-
> >Brian.
> >
> >
> 
> But "data", being a collective noun, may take either a singular or
> plural verb.
> http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/SubjectVerb.html#collective
> http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001874.html

Good of you to settle that. I think I'll avoid the word and just
talk of "files".

How's the other research coming along?
Did you see if there were files whose timestamps change?
Did you see whether you can find the files which are apparently
indexed in /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list?
And if/when you find them, what are you going to use them for,
in view of your new philosophy of working from the DVDs anyway?
Or is it the 13 bookmarks added to your reading list that's the
only important thing?

Cheers,
David.

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#179013

On 03/19/2017 08:08 AM, David Wright wrote:
> [snip ;]
>
> How's the other research coming along?
> Did you see if there were files whose timestamps change?
> Did you see whether you can find the files which are apparently
> indexed in /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list?
> And if/when you find them, what are you going to use them for,
> in view of your new philosophy of working from the DVDs anyway?

It's not new. People just assumed that I would do things a certain way 
because that would be the way they would do it.
I put effort into asking narrowly focused questions. Many, in effect, 
say "Owlett can't mean ..." and proceed to answer "The question Owlett 
should have asked is ' ...? ' " ;}


> Or is it the 13 bookmarks added to your reading list that's the
> only important thing?

For now. Those links provide the resources I need to answer a broader 
set of questions that this thread is just the tip of a proverbial iceberg.

The subject line is my question.
Perhaps my original post gave too much information and should have been 
replaced by a single line quoting the subject line.

Perhaps the Subject/Body could have been phrased as
     "Where is what data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?"

Those 13 bookmarks will begin to answer that question.

>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
>

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#179026

On Sun 19 Mar 2017 at 08:50:55 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 03/19/2017 08:08 AM, David Wright wrote:
> >[snip ;]
> >
> >How's the other research coming along?
> >Did you see if there were files whose timestamps change?
> >Did you see whether you can find the files which are apparently
> >indexed in /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list?
> >And if/when you find them, what are you going to use them for,
> >in view of your new philosophy of working from the DVDs anyway?
> 
> It's not new. People just assumed that I would do things a certain
> way because that would be the way they would do it.
> I put effort into asking narrowly focused questions.

And I put effort into answering it as best I could.
The first answer to the thread may well be correct, but
you don't appear to have looked to see if it was correct.

I suggested /var/lib as another possibility, partly because
I think it would be easier to eliminate. All the files in
my /var/lib/apt are plain text, so it would be hard to hide
the information from scanned CDs.

OTOH /var/cache/apt contains a couple of .bin files which
have package names in them. Not having CDs to scan, I can't
test the file timestamp idea. If they changed, it would
suggest Jonathan was correct, but be trickier to prove.
Hence checking, and possibly eliminating, /var/lib.
Also there's the point that those .bin files may contain more
than just some CD indexes, so sharing them between different
systems would be high-risk.

So you haven't answered Jonathan's suggestion nor mine.
Instead, just some of the usual vague waffle about reading
lists, and complaints that the answers aren't good enough
for you.

I wrote to you privately in 2015 about this. Curt has just
written "it's obvious Dick Owlett is crowdsourcing his retirement",
but I think that ignores the fact that crowdsourcing should
involve reciprocal benefits.

> Many, in
> effect, say "Owlett can't mean ..." and proceed to answer "The
> question Owlett should have asked is ' ...? ' " ;}
> 

That's a legitimate course of action. In many cases, those
answers could be of use to many people reading this list,
particularly in view of the self-confessed statement that you
take "the road less traveled".

> >Or is it the 13 bookmarks added to your reading list that's the
> >only important thing?
> 
> For now. Those links provide the resources I need to answer a
> broader set of questions that this thread is just the tip of a
> proverbial iceberg.

As usual.

> The subject line is my question.
> Perhaps my original post gave too much information and should have
> been replaced by a single line quoting the subject line.
> 
> Perhaps the Subject/Body could have been phrased as
>     "Where is what data stored when Synaptic scans DVDs?"
> 
> Those 13 bookmarks will begin to answer that question.

I'm pessimistic about your making much progress with this
methodology. man apt-cdrom IMO is trying to put people off
from taking a simplistic approach, and the lack of documentation
of the whereabouts of the information is probably significant too.

But your reticence about revealing what you end up trying has
consequences. As I said, copying the DVDs was discussed many
months ago. "That has gone thru several variations, some mutually
inconsistent" is a response that's about par for the course.
I for one have lost interest.

Cheers,
David.

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#179063

On Sun 19 Mar 2017 at 23:25:47 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Sun 19 Mar 2017 at 08:50:55 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> > On 03/19/2017 08:08 AM, David Wright wrote:
> > >[snip ;]
> > >
> > >How's the other research coming along?
> > >Did you see if there were files whose timestamps change?
> > >Did you see whether you can find the files which are apparently
> > >indexed in /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list?
> > >And if/when you find them, what are you going to use them for,
> > >in view of your new philosophy of working from the DVDs anyway?
> > 
> > It's not new. People just assumed that I would do things a certain
> > way because that would be the way they would do it.
> > I put effort into asking narrowly focused questions.
> 
> And I put effort into answering it as best I could.
> The first answer to the thread may well be correct, but
> you don't appear to have looked to see if it was correct.

The question asked is clear enough. The responses are muddy. I do not
think there is an agenda [1] here.

 > ...where is the data about contents of each DVD stored?

> I suggested /var/lib as another possibility, partly because
> I think it would be easier to eliminate. All the files in
> my /var/lib/apt are plain text, so it would be hard to hide
> the information from scanned CDs.

It isn't hidden.

> OTOH /var/cache/apt contains a couple of .bin files which
> have package names in them. Not having CDs to scan, I can't
> test the file timestamp idea. If they changed, it would
> suggest Jonathan was correct, but be trickier to prove.
> Hence checking, and possibly eliminating, /var/lib.
> Also there's the point that those .bin files may contain more
> than just some CD indexes, so sharing them between different
> systems would be high-risk.

I dug out my trusty set of Slink CDs [2] and popped CD1 into the cdrom
drive.

  root@gnome-stable:~# apt-cdrom ident
  Using CD-ROM mount point /media/cdrom/
  Mounting CD-ROM...
  Identifying... [312b07c10c39c9ce1e89be115088d562-2]
  Stored label: Debian GNU/Linux slink (2.1) 1/4 main binary-i386 section 1 SAM19990617
  Unmounting CD-ROM...

  root@gnome-stable:~# apt-cdrom add
  Using CD-ROM mount point /media/cdrom/
  Unmounting CD-ROM...
  Waiting for disc...
  Please insert a Disc in the drive and press enter
  Mounting CD-ROM...
  Identifying... [312b07c10c39c9ce1e89be115088d562-2]
  Scanning disc for index files...
  Found 4 package indexes, 0 source indexes, 0 translation indexes and 0 signatures
  This disc is called:
  'Debian GNU/Linux slink (2.1) 1/4 main binary-i386 section 1 SAM19990617'
  Reading Package Indexes... Done
  Writing new source list
  Source list entries for this disc are:
  deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux slink (2.1) 1/4 main binary-i386 section 1 SAM19990617]/ slink contrib main non-US non-free
  Unmounting CD-ROM...
  Repeat this process for the rest of the CDs in your set.

A portion of the output:

  root@gnome-stable:~# ls -l /var/lib/apt/lists
  -rw-r--r-- 1 root root   873670 Mar 20 22:30 Debian%20GNU_Linux%20slink%20(2.1)%201_4%20main%20binary-i386%20section%201%20SAM19990617_dists_slink_main_binary-i386_Packages

There we are - a complete answer to the question and a completely
satisfied customer. :)

-- 
Brian

[1] I've given up on "agenda"; but not on "data". The World will
eventually see the error of its ways.

[2] I wonder whether Steve McIntyre still uses green ink to label
    his CDs.

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#179071

On Mon 20 Mar 2017 at 23:03:29 (+0000), Brian wrote:
> On Sun 19 Mar 2017 at 23:25:47 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > On Sun 19 Mar 2017 at 08:50:55 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > On 03/19/2017 08:08 AM, David Wright wrote:
> > > >[snip ;]
> > > >
> > > >How's the other research coming along?
> > > >Did you see if there were files whose timestamps change?
> > > >Did you see whether you can find the files which are apparently
> > > >indexed in /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list?
> > > >And if/when you find them, what are you going to use them for,
> > > >in view of your new philosophy of working from the DVDs anyway?
> > > 
> > > It's not new. People just assumed that I would do things a certain
> > > way because that would be the way they would do it.
> > > I put effort into asking narrowly focused questions.
> > 
> > And I put effort into answering it as best I could.
> > The first answer to the thread may well be correct, but
> > you don't appear to have looked to see if it was correct.
> 
> The question asked is clear enough. The responses are muddy. I do not
> think there is an agenda [1] here.

Perhaps you can bring some clarity to the situation.
I have merely tried to suggest some places to look for information
written by synaptic, by analogy with apt-cdrom's behaviour.

>  > ...where is the data about contents of each DVD stored?
> 
> > I suggested /var/lib as another possibility, partly because
> > I think it would be easier to eliminate. All the files in
> > my /var/lib/apt are plain text, so it would be hard to hide
> > the information from scanned CDs.
> 
> It isn't hidden.

Good.

> > OTOH /var/cache/apt contains a couple of .bin files which
> > have package names in them. Not having CDs to scan, I can't
> > test the file timestamp idea. If they changed, it would
> > suggest Jonathan was correct, but be trickier to prove.
> > Hence checking, and possibly eliminating, /var/lib.
> > Also there's the point that those .bin files may contain more
> > than just some CD indexes, so sharing them between different
> > systems would be high-risk.
> 
> I dug out my trusty set of Slink CDs [2] and popped CD1 into the cdrom
> drive.

Mine could still be hanging from threads in the vegetable plot,
scaring the birds. Too many oceans in between for me to check.

>   root@gnome-stable:~# apt-cdrom ident
>   Using CD-ROM mount point /media/cdrom/
>   Mounting CD-ROM...
>   Identifying... [312b07c10c39c9ce1e89be115088d562-2]
>   Stored label: Debian GNU/Linux slink (2.1) 1/4 main binary-i386 section 1 SAM19990617
>   Unmounting CD-ROM...
> 
>   root@gnome-stable:~# apt-cdrom add
>   Using CD-ROM mount point /media/cdrom/
>   Unmounting CD-ROM...
>   Waiting for disc...
>   Please insert a Disc in the drive and press enter
>   Mounting CD-ROM...
>   Identifying... [312b07c10c39c9ce1e89be115088d562-2]
>   Scanning disc for index files...
>   Found 4 package indexes, 0 source indexes, 0 translation indexes and 0 signatures
>   This disc is called:
>   'Debian GNU/Linux slink (2.1) 1/4 main binary-i386 section 1 SAM19990617'
>   Reading Package Indexes... Done
>   Writing new source list
>   Source list entries for this disc are:
>   deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux slink (2.1) 1/4 main binary-i386 section 1 SAM19990617]/ slink contrib main non-US non-free
>   Unmounting CD-ROM...
>   Repeat this process for the rest of the CDs in your set.
> 
> A portion of the output:
> 
>   root@gnome-stable:~# ls -l /var/lib/apt/lists
>   -rw-r--r-- 1 root root   873670 Mar 20 22:30 Debian%20GNU_Linux%20slink%20(2.1)%201_4%20main%20binary-i386%20section%201%20SAM19990617_dists_slink_main_binary-i386_Packages
> 
> There we are - a complete answer to the question and a completely
> satisfied customer. :)

I hope so. But I read "Just copying /etc/apt/sources.list and
/var/lib/apt/lists is not enough" written by the OP in
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/02/msg00518.html
I reminded the OP of the mention of /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list
quoted in that email, acknowledged on 12 Feb in
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/02/msg00537.html
but the question has been raised again. Whether synaptic does
something itself that goes beyond what is done by apt-cdrom, I do not
know; nor where to find that out. Hence the suggestion to carry out
experiments, which the OP might enjoy for the experience.

Obviously the OP wants to be able to find a set of files on one system
which, when transferred to another system, will tell the latter
everything that the former knows about a set of CDs, in order that
they don't have to be rescanned on the latter system. I don't think
your demonstration here has shown that those files _are_ sufficient,
even if you were correct in thinking they are.

Cheers,
David.

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#179128

On Mon 20 Mar 2017 at 20:23:48 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Mon 20 Mar 2017 at 23:03:29 (+0000), Brian wrote:
> > On Sun 19 Mar 2017 at 23:25:47 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sun 19 Mar 2017 at 08:50:55 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > > On 03/19/2017 08:08 AM, David Wright wrote:
> > > > >[snip ;]
> > > > >
> > > > >How's the other research coming along?
> > > > >Did you see if there were files whose timestamps change?
> > > > >Did you see whether you can find the files which are apparently
> > > > >indexed in /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list?
> > > > >And if/when you find them, what are you going to use them for,
> > > > >in view of your new philosophy of working from the DVDs anyway?
> > > > 
> > > > It's not new. People just assumed that I would do things a certain
> > > > way because that would be the way they would do it.
> > > > I put effort into asking narrowly focused questions.
> > > 
> > > And I put effort into answering it as best I could.
> > > The first answer to the thread may well be correct, but
> > > you don't appear to have looked to see if it was correct.
> > 
> > The question asked is clear enough. The responses are muddy. I do not
> > think there is an agenda [1] here.
> 
> Perhaps you can bring some clarity to the situation.
> I have merely tried to suggest some places to look for information
> written by synaptic, by analogy with apt-cdrom's behaviour.

This part of my response wasn't very clear. I was thinking of

 > you don't appear to have looked to see if it was correct

at the time and was wondering why the OP has let his issue hang in the
air in his responses.

The contention that

 > People just assumed that I would do things a certain way because
 > that would be the way they would do it.

also requires us to tailor our responses to the OP's thought processes.
That's all apart from the assumption being nonsense. The logical outcome
would be that he doesn't get any replies; it is too wearing to have
guess someone's innermost desires.

> >  > ...where is the data about contents of each DVD stored?
> > 
> > > I suggested /var/lib as another possibility, partly because
> > > I think it would be easier to eliminate. All the files in
> > > my /var/lib/apt are plain text, so it would be hard to hide
> > > the information from scanned CDs.
> > 
> > It isn't hidden.
> 
> Good.
> 
> > > OTOH /var/cache/apt contains a couple of .bin files which
> > > have package names in them. Not having CDs to scan, I can't
> > > test the file timestamp idea. If they changed, it would
> > > suggest Jonathan was correct, but be trickier to prove.
> > > Hence checking, and possibly eliminating, /var/lib.
> > > Also there's the point that those .bin files may contain more
> > > than just some CD indexes, so sharing them between different
> > > systems would be high-risk.
> > 
> > I dug out my trusty set of Slink CDs [2] and popped CD1 into the cdrom
> > drive.
> 
> Mine could still be hanging from threads in the vegetable plot,
> scaring the birds. Too many oceans in between for me to check.
> 
> >   root@gnome-stable:~# apt-cdrom ident
> >   Using CD-ROM mount point /media/cdrom/
> >   Mounting CD-ROM...
> >   Identifying... [312b07c10c39c9ce1e89be115088d562-2]
> >   Stored label: Debian GNU/Linux slink (2.1) 1/4 main binary-i386 section 1 SAM19990617
> >   Unmounting CD-ROM...
> > 
> >   root@gnome-stable:~# apt-cdrom add
> >   Using CD-ROM mount point /media/cdrom/
> >   Unmounting CD-ROM...
> >   Waiting for disc...
> >   Please insert a Disc in the drive and press enter
> >   Mounting CD-ROM...
> >   Identifying... [312b07c10c39c9ce1e89be115088d562-2]
> >   Scanning disc for index files...
> >   Found 4 package indexes, 0 source indexes, 0 translation indexes and 0 signatures
> >   This disc is called:
> >   'Debian GNU/Linux slink (2.1) 1/4 main binary-i386 section 1 SAM19990617'
> >   Reading Package Indexes... Done
> >   Writing new source list
> >   Source list entries for this disc are:
> >   deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux slink (2.1) 1/4 main binary-i386 section 1 SAM19990617]/ slink contrib main non-US non-free
> >   Unmounting CD-ROM...
> >   Repeat this process for the rest of the CDs in your set.
> > 
> > A portion of the output:
> > 
> >   root@gnome-stable:~# ls -l /var/lib/apt/lists
> >   -rw-r--r-- 1 root root   873670 Mar 20 22:30 Debian%20GNU_Linux%20slink%20(2.1)%201_4%20main%20binary-i386%20section%201%20SAM19990617_dists_slink_main_binary-i386_Packages
> > 
> > There we are - a complete answer to the question and a completely
> > satisfied customer. :)
> 
> I hope so. But I read "Just copying /etc/apt/sources.list and
> /var/lib/apt/lists is not enough" written by the OP in
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/02/msg00518.html
> I reminded the OP of the mention of /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list
> quoted in that email, acknowledged on 12 Feb in
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/02/msg00537.html
> but the question has been raised again. Whether synaptic does
> something itself that goes beyond what is done by apt-cdrom, I do not
> know; nor where to find that out. Hence the suggestion to carry out
> experiments, which the OP might enjoy for the experience.
> 
> Obviously the OP wants to be able to find a set of files on one system
> which, when transferred to another system, will tell the latter
> everything that the former knows about a set of CDs, in order that
> they don't have to be rescanned on the latter system. I don't think
> your demonstration here has shown that those files _are_ sufficient,
> even if you were correct in thinking they are.

cdroms.list, sources.list and the files in lists/ are necessary. They
are the only files which change when a CD is added. Whether they are
sufficient when put on the target system is another matter.

-- 
Brian.

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#179145

On 03/21/2017 03:31 PM, Brian wrote:
> [snip]
>
> This part of my response wasn't very clear. I was thinking of
>
>  > you don't appear to have looked to see if it was correct
>
> at the time and was wondering why the OP has let his issue hang in the
> air in his responses.

Because I've not yet absorbed the content and implications of the 13 
links mentioned elsewhere.

> [snip]
>> Obviously the OP wants to be able to find a set of files on one system
>> which, when transferred to another system, will tell the latter
>> everything that the former knows about a set of CDs, in order that
>> they don't have to be rescanned on the latter system. I don't think
>> your demonstration here has shown that those files _are_ sufficient,
>> even if you were correct in thinking they are.
>
> cdroms.list, sources.list and the files in lists/ are necessary. They
> are the only files which change when a CD is added. Whether they are
> sufficient when put on the target system is another matter.
>

That *IS* the question.
I'm unlikely to  say much more until I've at least a reasonable start on 
an answer.

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#179074

On Monday 20 March 2017 23:03:29 Brian wrote:
> [1] I've given up on "agenda"; but not on "data". The World will
> eventually see the error of its ways.

Brian, I squirmed.  "Data is" ... I can just about handle.  I CANNOT (yes, I 
can shout too!!!!!) handle "agenda is".  Agenda are always more than one 
thing.  The piece of paper is the *list* of the agenda, which are the things 
which require to be done.  In the unlikely even that a meeting had been 
called that had only one thing to do, then that one thing would be an 
agendum.

My granddaughter may disagree, but she wouldn't dare do so with me in the 
room!

Lisi

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#179096

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:27:47AM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> Brian, I squirmed.  "Data is" ... I can just about handle.  I CANNOT (yes, I 
> can shout too!!!!!) handle "agenda is".  Agenda are always more than one 
> thing.

That is not how the word is used in current English.  Just run "dict
agenda" on Debian (if dict is installed), and it'll show you several
definitions, from several different sources, most of them showing "agenda"
as a singular noun.

The only source that shows it as a plural is the venerable 1913 Webster
(the last time a published work in the USA entered the public domain;
thanks, Disney).  At some point in the last 104 years, the word's usage
has evolved.  Sorry, but that happens from time to time.

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