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How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application?

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  How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-08 19:10 +0100
    Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Frank <zuiderduin@gmx.com> - 2017-03-08 19:30 +0100
      Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-08 20:20 +0100
    Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2017-03-08 19:40 +0100
      Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-08 20:40 +0100
        Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-08 21:50 +0100
        Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 00:00 +0100
          Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-09 07:20 +0100
          Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 08:50 +0100
      Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-09 11:10 +0100
        Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2017-03-09 12:10 +0100
      Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> - 2017-03-11 13:10 +0100
        Re: How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application? Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2017-03-11 14:20 +0100

#178578 — How to >>COMPLETELY<< remove an application?

I recently installed grml-debootstrap from a purchased DVD set of 
Jessie(8.6.0). I have minimal available bandwidth so I install strictly 
from DVDs.

I have discovered a potential bug for my specific use case and believe 
I've narrowed the problem source to two specific files.

I have used script to record some of my test runs after I had edited the 
files in question.

I wanted to record a test run duplicating the as originally installed 
environment. I used Synaptic to remove the package - choosing the "Mark 
for complete removal" option. It notified me that it would remove 
configuration files which was why I chose that option.

I reinstalled grml-debootstrap from the same DVD set. I did a dry run 
and got a quite different set of errors.

IIRC I've seen discussions about removing EVERYTHING related to a 
package. I don't recall the details.

What is the most effective way to completely remove an application?

If all else fails, I can reinstall Debian completely to a new partition. 
But I'd like to use this as an "educational" experience.

TIA

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#178580

Op 08-03-17 om 19:01 schreef Richard Owlett:
> What is the most effective way to completely remove an application?

Remove it - as you did - including the configuration files (i.e. any 
files in /etc). Then check your home directory - also ~/.config and 
~/.local/share - for any user owned configuration files and directories 
that might have been created by that application. The package manager 
will not have removed those, because it isn't allowed to touch anything 
in the user's home.

Regards,
Frank

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#178582

On 03/08/2017 12:24 PM, Frank wrote:
> Op 08-03-17 om 19:01 schreef Richard Owlett:
>> What is the most effective way to completely remove an application?
>
> Remove it - as you did - including the configuration files (i.e. any
> files in /etc). Then check your home directory - also ~/.config and
> ~/.local/share - for any user owned configuration files and directories
> that might have been created by that application. The package manager
> will not have removed those, because it isn't allowed to touch anything
> in the user's home.
>
> Regards,
> Frank
>

Thank you. They all appear clean.

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#178581

On 3/8/17, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> I recently installed grml-debootstrap from a purchased DVD set of
> Jessie(8.6.0). I have minimal available bandwidth so I install strictly
> from DVDs.
>
> I have discovered a potential bug for my specific use case and believe
> I've narrowed the problem source to two specific files.
>
> I have used script to record some of my test runs after I had edited the
> files in question.
>
> I wanted to record a test run duplicating the as originally installed
> environment. I used Synaptic to remove the package - choosing the "Mark
> for complete removal" option. It notified me that it would remove
> configuration files which was why I chose that option.
>
> I reinstalled grml-debootstrap from the same DVD set. I did a dry run
> and got a quite different set of errors.
>
> IIRC I've seen discussions about removing EVERYTHING related to a
> package. I don't recall the details.
>
> What is the most effective way to completely remove an application?
>
> If all else fails, I can reinstall Debian completely to a new partition.
> But I'd like to use this as an "educational" experience.


I use both "apt-get autoremove" and "apt-get purge" for package
removal. Purge is the one that FEELS LIKE it zaps everything,
configuration files and all, but I've never gone about it
scientifically to verify yay or nay for fact.

>From "man apt-get":

+++++++++

remove
           remove is identical to install except that packages are removed
           instead of installed. Note that removing a package leaves its
           configuration files on the system. If a plus sign is appended to
           the package name (with no intervening space), the identified
           package will be installed instead of removed.

purge
           purge is identical to remove except that packages are removed and
           purged (any configuration files are deleted too).

+++++++++

Ohhhh, and I learned something new today:

+++++++++

autoremove (and the auto-remove alias since 1.1)
           autoremove is used to remove packages that were automatically
           installed to satisfy dependencies for other packages and are now no
           longer needed.

+++++++++

I did not know that. I knew there was "remove" and "autoremove" but
had never pursued *why*. I started using "autoremove" after I kept
seeing apt-get proffer it.... for removal of packages that are no
longer dependencies for anything. So from now on... my opening
statement will be that I use "apt-get remove" and "apt-get purge".
*grin*

Do Synaptic, Aptitude, and possibly anything else of that family have
similarly close but still different flags/commands?

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with glee @ #SandySprings!! *

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#178583

On 03/08/2017 12:32 PM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> On 3/8/17, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>> I recently installed grml-debootstrap from a purchased DVD set of
>> Jessie(8.6.0). I have minimal available bandwidth so I install strictly
>> from DVDs.
>>
>> I have discovered a potential bug for my specific use case and believe
>> I've narrowed the problem source to two specific files.
>>
>> I have used script to record some of my test runs after I had edited the
>> files in question.
>>
>> I wanted to record a test run duplicating the as originally installed
>> environment. I used Synaptic to remove the package - choosing the "Mark
>> for complete removal" option. It notified me that it would remove
>> configuration files which was why I chose that option.
>>
>> I reinstalled grml-debootstrap from the same DVD set. I did a dry run
>> and got a quite different set of errors.
>>
>> IIRC I've seen discussions about removing EVERYTHING related to a
>> package. I don't recall the details.
>>
>> What is the most effective way to completely remove an application?
>>
>> If all else fails, I can reinstall Debian completely to a new partition.
>> But I'd like to use this as an "educational" experience.
>
>
> I use both "apt-get autoremove" and "apt-get purge" for package
> removal. Purge is the one that FEELS LIKE it zaps everything,
> configuration files and all, but I've never gone about it
> scientifically to verify yay or nay for fact.
>
>>From "man apt-get":
>
> +++++++++
>
> remove
>            remove is identical to install except that packages are removed
>            instead of installed. Note that removing a package leaves its
>            configuration files on the system. If a plus sign is appended to
>            the package name (with no intervening space), the identified
>            package will be installed instead of removed.
>
> purge
>            purge is identical to remove except that packages are removed and
>            purged (any configuration files are deleted too).
>
> +++++++++
>
> Ohhhh, and I learned something new today:
>
> +++++++++
>
> autoremove (and the auto-remove alias since 1.1)
>            autoremove is used to remove packages that were automatically
>            installed to satisfy dependencies for other packages and are now no
>            longer needed.
>
> +++++++++
>
> I did not know that. I knew there was "remove" and "autoremove" but
> had never pursued *why*. I started using "autoremove" after I kept
> seeing apt-get proffer it.... for removal of packages that are no
> longer dependencies for anything. So from now on... my opening
> statement will be that I use "apt-get remove" and "apt-get purge".
> *grin*
>
> Do Synaptic, Aptitude, and possibly anything else of that family have
> similarly close but still different flags/commands?
>
> Cindy :)
>

You got me looking at man-apt get.
It reminded me that I should clean my cache between test runs from a 
repeatability perspective. It might explain some warning [rather than 
error] messages I've gotten. I'm doing peculiar things, why shouldn't I 
get peculiar messages.

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#178587

On Wed 08 Mar 2017 at 13:34:08 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 03/08/2017 12:32 PM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> >On 3/8/17, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

[Lots of snipping to get to to the heart of the question]

> >>What is the most effective way to completely remove an application?
> >

[More snipping]

> >purge
> >           purge is identical to remove except that packages are removed and
> >           purged (any configuration files are deleted too).

[And even more]
 
> You got me looking at man-apt get.

Good thinking. You will have re-acquainted yourself with the purge
option and seen it is a complete answer to your query.

> It reminded me that I should clean my cache between test runs from a
> repeatability perspective. It might explain some warning [rather than error]
> messages I've gotten. I'm doing peculiar things, why shouldn't I get
> peculiar messages.

"clean my cache"? Is this something to do with personal hygiene? Please
elaborate.

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#178589

On 03/08/2017 11:34 AM, Richard Owlet wrote:
> On 03/08/2017 12:32 PM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
>> On 3/8/17, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>>> I recently installed grml-debootstrap from a purchased DVD set of
>>> Jessie(8.6.0). I have minimal available bandwidth so I install strictly
>>> from DVDs.
>>>
>>> I have discovered a potential bug for my specific use case and believe
>>> I've narrowed the problem source to two specific files.
>>>
>>> I have used script to record some of my test runs after I had edited the
>>> files in question.
>>>
>>> I wanted to record a test run duplicating the as originally installed
>>> environment. I used Synaptic to remove the package - choosing the "Mark
>>> for complete removal" option. It notified me that it would remove
>>> configuration files which was why I chose that option.
>>>
>>> I reinstalled grml-debootstrap from the same DVD set. I did a dry run
>>> and got a quite different set of errors.
>>>
>>> IIRC I've seen discussions about removing EVERYTHING related to a
>>> package. I don't recall the details.
>>>
>>> What is the most effective way to completely remove an application?
>>>
>>> If all else fails, I can reinstall Debian completely to a new partition.
>>> But I'd like to use this as an "educational" experience.
>>
>>
>> I use both "apt-get autoremove" and "apt-get purge" for package
>> removal. Purge is the one that FEELS LIKE it zaps everything,
>> configuration files and all, but I've never gone about it
>> scientifically to verify yay or nay for fact.
>>
>>> From "man apt-get":
>>
>> +++++++++
>>
>> remove
>>            remove is identical to install except that packages are
>> removed
>>            instead of installed. Note that removing a package leaves its
>>            configuration files on the system. If a plus sign is
>> appended to
>>            the package name (with no intervening space), the identified
>>            package will be installed instead of removed.
>>
>> purge
>>            purge is identical to remove except that packages are
>> removed and
>>            purged (any configuration files are deleted too).
>>
>> +++++++++
>>
>> Ohhhh, and I learned something new today:
>>
>> +++++++++
>>
>> autoremove (and the auto-remove alias since 1.1)
>>            autoremove is used to remove packages that were automatically
>>            installed to satisfy dependencies for other packages and
>> are now no
>>            longer needed.
>>
>> +++++++++
>>
>> I did not know that. I knew there was "remove" and "autoremove" but
>> had never pursued *why*. I started using "autoremove" after I kept
>> seeing apt-get proffer it.... for removal of packages that are no
>> longer dependencies for anything. So from now on... my opening
>> statement will be that I use "apt-get remove" and "apt-get purge".
>> *grin*
>>
>> Do Synaptic, Aptitude, and possibly anything else of that family have
>> similarly close but still different flags/commands?
>>
>> Cindy :)
>>
>
> You got me looking at man-apt get.
> It reminded me that I should clean my cache between test runs from a
> repeatability perspective. It might explain some warning [rather than
> error] messages I've gotten. I'm doing peculiar things, why shouldn't I
> get peculiar messages.

Hi Richard,

First, unless you are using something older than Jessie you can use apt 
as in #apt update or #apt purge, apt-get is no longer needed.

Second, there is a command line package named "upgrade-system" that uses 
apt and deborphan, it will update, upgrade, autoremove and check for 
orphaned packages with the one command. On a Stable system let 
'upgrade-system' have it's way, it's safe and will remove your crud, but 
on testing and Sid check what packages it's going to remove just like 
you would with any other package manager and if your not sure use 
'gtkorphan' so you can see what you're doing.

So you could #apt purge 'package name' && upgrade-system
All done.

regards,
-- 
Jimmy Johnson

Ubuntu 14.04 - KDE 4.13.3 - EXT4 at sda5
Registered Linux User #380263

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#178594

On 3/8/2017 4:53 PM, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> [snip]
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> First, unless you are using something older than Jessie you can
> use apt as in #apt update or #apt purge, apt-get is no longer
> needed.

I am using Jessie, 8.6.0 with MATE Desktop.
Due to bandwidth limitations, I install strictly from purchased 
DVD sets.
That has some obvious drawbacks but it does meet my needs.

Your next paragraph suggests you have missed some long term 
background.
I have been trying to learn to use debootstrap and/or multistrap 
for a personal
very minimal Debian install. I came across grml-debootstrap which 
is designed
to simply using debootstrap. It works when using the Debian 
online repository.
I can't get it to work properly using its option to use a local 
CD/DVD as
the repository. I believed I had isolated the source of the 
problem, a
configuration file and its associated script. To capture 
information for filing
an upstream bug report, I wanted to start from a known condition 
by uninstalling grml-debootstrap and reinstalling, exactly 
duplicating original conditions.

I had done the uninstall using Synaptic's "Mark for complete 
removal" option.
After using Synaptic to re-install, I was not able to reproduce 
some of my
early results. That lead to my question in this thread.

Frank replied that my method was essentially correct and suggested I
also verify that some files in my home directory. I found no 
problems there.

About the same time Cindy-Sue said her preferred procedure was 
using both
"apt-get autoremove" and "apt-get purge" for package removal. 
That led me
to review the apt-get man page. That led me to the tools for 
cleaning the cache.

That led to running "apt-get clean" and "apt-get autoremove". The 
effect on
test runs of grml-debootstrap is unclear at the moment.

I have a (hopefully) unrelated failure on that machine. I now 
have to run
starx on each reboot.

Thanks all for your time.


> Second, there is a command line package named "upgrade-system"
> that uses apt and deborphan, it will update, upgrade, autoremove
> and check for orphaned packages with the one command. On a Stable
> system let 'upgrade-system' have it's way, it's safe and will
> remove your crud, but on testing and Sid check what packages it's
> going to remove just like you would with any other package
> manager and if your not sure use 'gtkorphan' so you can see what
> you're doing.
>
> So you could #apt purge 'package name' && upgrade-system
> All done.
>
> regards,

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#178597

On 03/08/2017 02:53 PM, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> On 03/08/2017 11:34 AM, Richard Owlet wrote:
>> On 03/08/2017 12:32 PM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
>>> On 3/8/17, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>>>> I recently installed grml-debootstrap from a purchased DVD set of
>>>> Jessie(8.6.0). I have minimal available bandwidth so I install 
>>>> strictly
>>>> from DVDs.
>>>>
>>>> I have discovered a potential bug for my specific use case and believe
>>>> I've narrowed the problem source to two specific files.
>>>>
>>>> I have used script to record some of my test runs after I had 
>>>> edited the
>>>> files in question.
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to record a test run duplicating the as originally installed
>>>> environment. I used Synaptic to remove the package - choosing the 
>>>> "Mark
>>>> for complete removal" option. It notified me that it would remove
>>>> configuration files which was why I chose that option.
>>>>
>>>> I reinstalled grml-debootstrap from the same DVD set. I did a dry run
>>>> and got a quite different set of errors.
>>>>
>>>> IIRC I've seen discussions about removing EVERYTHING related to a
>>>> package. I don't recall the details.
>>>>
>>>> What is the most effective way to completely remove an application?
>>>>
>>>> If all else fails, I can reinstall Debian completely to a new 
>>>> partition.
>>>> But I'd like to use this as an "educational" experience.
>>>
>>>
>>> I use both "apt-get autoremove" and "apt-get purge" for package
>>> removal. Purge is the one that FEELS LIKE it zaps everything,
>>> configuration files and all, but I've never gone about it
>>> scientifically to verify yay or nay for fact.
>>>
>>>> From "man apt-get":
>>>
>>> +++++++++
>>>
>>> remove
>>>            remove is identical to install except that packages are
>>> removed
>>>            instead of installed. Note that removing a package leaves 
>>> its
>>>            configuration files on the system. If a plus sign is
>>> appended to
>>>            the package name (with no intervening space), the identified
>>>            package will be installed instead of removed.
>>>
>>> purge
>>>            purge is identical to remove except that packages are
>>> removed and
>>>            purged (any configuration files are deleted too).
>>>
>>> +++++++++
>>>
>>> Ohhhh, and I learned something new today:
>>>
>>> +++++++++
>>>
>>> autoremove (and the auto-remove alias since 1.1)
>>>            autoremove is used to remove packages that were 
>>> automatically
>>>            installed to satisfy dependencies for other packages and
>>> are now no
>>>            longer needed.
>>>
>>> +++++++++
>>>
>>> I did not know that. I knew there was "remove" and "autoremove" but
>>> had never pursued *why*. I started using "autoremove" after I kept
>>> seeing apt-get proffer it.... for removal of packages that are no
>>> longer dependencies for anything. So from now on... my opening
>>> statement will be that I use "apt-get remove" and "apt-get purge".
>>> *grin*
>>>
>>> Do Synaptic, Aptitude, and possibly anything else of that family have
>>> similarly close but still different flags/commands?
>>>
>>> Cindy :)
>>>
>>
>> You got me looking at man-apt get.
>> It reminded me that I should clean my cache between test runs from a
>> repeatability perspective. It might explain some warning [rather than
>> error] messages I've gotten. I'm doing peculiar things, why shouldn't I
>> get peculiar messages.
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> First, unless you are using something older than Jessie you can use 
> apt as in #apt update or #apt purge, apt-get is no longer needed.
>
> Second, there is a command line package named "upgrade-system" that 
> uses apt and deborphan, it will update, upgrade, autoremove and check 
> for orphaned packages with the one command. On a Stable system let 
> 'upgrade-system' have it's way, it's safe and will remove your crud, 
> but on testing and Sid check what packages it's going to remove just 
> like you would with any other package manager and if your not sure use 
> 'gtkorphan' so you can see what you're doing.
>
> So you could #apt purge 'package name' && upgrade-system
> All done.
>
> regards,

Not having known about upgrade-system, this seemed like something that I 
should look into, so I installed it.

Since I am running a 'stable' system I let it run.  It updated the 
package lists and upgraded 10 packages.  So far, so good. Then it ran 
deborphan (I guess) and wanted to remove 170 packages.  Despite the 
suggestion that this was safe on a stable system, I perused the packages 
to be removed.  These included sysvinit*!  What!  That would have 
removed sysvinit, sysvinit-core, and sysvinit-utils.  Since I am still 
(obvously) running sysv as my init system, this would have been a BAD 
THING and NOT a Good Thing!  This would have removed my init system! 
Presumably, it would then have installed systemd.  This would also have 
been a BAD THING!  So I said 'No' to that.  It then proceeded to clear 
my apt cache archives completely.  This is something that I never do, 
and would have told it not to do if it had asked me. It did not ask, it 
simply deleted everything in /var/cache/apt/archives!

I'll be deleting that package.  I can run 'apt update' and 'apt upgrade' 
perfectly well and feel safer about what is happening on my system.

Marc

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#178603

On Wed 08 Mar 2017 at 13:32:58 -0500, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:

> I use both "apt-get autoremove" and "apt-get purge" for package
> removal. Purge is the one that FEELS LIKE it zaps everything,
> configuration files and all, but I've never gone about it
> scientifically to verify yay or nay for fact.

"purge" indeed does remove all the files the package installed [1].
This is something an experienced user like the OP should be familiar
with.

> >From "man apt-get":
> 
> +++++++++
> 
> remove
>            remove is identical to install except that packages are removed
>            instead of installed. Note that removing a package leaves its
>            configuration files on the system. If a plus sign is appended to
>            the package name (with no intervening space), the identified
>            package will be installed instead of removed.
> 
> purge
>            purge is identical to remove except that packages are removed and
>            purged (any configuration files are deleted too).
> 
> +++++++++

That about sums it up.

> Ohhhh, and I learned something new today:
> 
> +++++++++
> 
> autoremove (and the auto-remove alias since 1.1)
>            autoremove is used to remove packages that were automatically
>            installed to satisfy dependencies for other packages and are now no
>            longer needed.
> 
> +++++++++
> 
> I did not know that. I knew there was "remove" and "autoremove" but
> had never pursued *why*. I started using "autoremove" after I kept
> seeing apt-get proffer it.... for removal of packages that are no
> longer dependencies for anything. So from now on... my opening
> statement will be that I use "apt-get remove" and "apt-get purge".
> *grin*

It is worthwhile considering using "--purge" with "autoremove"

  apt-get --purge autoremove

if you want to remove configuration files and update the dpkg database.

[1] A package can create a directory. If another package puts files
    into this directory the directory will not be deleted on purging.

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#178604

I am also using

aptitude purge ~c

which removes orphaned configurations by already deinstalled packages, and

aptitude purge `deborphan --guess-all`

which deinstalls all orphaned libs and packages. Here yo uhave to look, if 
something unwanted is deinstalled, but in my experiences this very rare 
happened.  In that case, i.e, when a library is missing, I am just reinstall 
this partiular one.

For uninstalling old kernels, I also like to use

aptitude purge ~n4.8.0-1-amd64-*

(the same is apt-get --purge remove 4.8.0-1-amd64-*
which installs all packages with 4.8.0-1-amd64 in its name. And as the version 
no other package is using, it deinstalls just that kernel, headers and built 
modules. Note: Take a look, before confirm!

Happy hacking!

Hans

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#178671

Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> writes:

> Do Synaptic, Aptitude, and possibly anything else of that family have
> similarly close but still different flags/commands?

I haven't seen this mentioned in the thread... but may have missed it.

I've noticed that some times aptitue purge does not remove everything
as show by running aptitude search on the pkg name and seeing the 'c'
(lower case `c' ) the indicates some files remain that have user
changes.

When that happens I've found that `dpkg' will most often complete the
job.  `dpkg purge  pkgname'

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#178674

Harry Putnam wrote on 03/11/17 13:03:
> Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> Do Synaptic, Aptitude, and possibly anything else of that family have
>> similarly close but still different flags/commands?
> 
> I haven't seen this mentioned in the thread... but may have missed it.
> 
> I've noticed that some times aptitue purge does not remove everything
> as show by running aptitude search on the pkg name and seeing the 'c'
> (lower case `c' ) the indicates some files remain that have user
> changes.
> 
> When that happens I've found that `dpkg' will most often complete the
> job.  `dpkg purge  pkgname'
> 
Next time you see configuration remnants, try

  aptitude purge '~c'

Regularly after updates, I (a heavy aptitude-cli user) command

  apt-get check ; dpkg -C ; aptitude search '~b' '~g' '~c'

to check the package management state.

Regards,
jvp.

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