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Did I blow my processor?

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  Did I blow my processor? Dennis Wicks <wix@mgssub.com> - 2017-02-20 22:10 +0100
    Re: Did I blow my processor? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-02-20 22:50 +0100
      Re: Did I blow my processor? Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2017-02-21 07:20 +0100
        Re: Did I blow my processor? Vignesh Ragupathy <me@vikki.in> - 2017-02-21 08:10 +0100
          Re: Did I blow my processor? GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-02-21 13:50 +0100
            Re: Did I blow my processor? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-02-21 14:40 +0100
            Re: Did I blow my processor? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2017-02-21 14:50 +0100
              Re: Did I blow my processor? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-02-21 16:20 +0100
                Re: Did I blow my processor? GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-02-21 16:50 +0100
                Re: Did I blow my processor? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2017-02-22 12:10 +0100
            Re: Did I blow my processor? Vignesh Ragupathy <me@vikki.in> - 2017-02-21 16:20 +0100
            Re: Did I blow my processor? Norbert Kiszka <norbert@linux.pl> - 2017-02-21 18:40 +0100

#178030 — Did I blow my processor?

I built myself another computer and it wouldn't boot up. No 
messages or anything. I finally discovered that I missed 
plugging in the 12V power to the MoBo. I did that and it 
still won't boot up, and still no messages diaplayed on the 
screen or any other indication of life.

Have I ruined my processor turning the system on with out 
the 12V attached? (This is the four wires from the power 
supply that plug into the mobo right next to the processor, 
for those that may not be familiar with installing stuff.)

Many TIA!
Dennis

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#178032

Dennis Wicks composed on 2017-02-20 15:00 (UTC-0600):

> I built myself another computer and it wouldn't boot up. No
> messages or anything. I finally discovered that I missed
> plugging in the 12V power to the MoBo.
I've done that many times while building, replacing or troubleshooting. You 
can't hurt a CPU by not giving it any power.

> I did that and it
> still won't boot up, and still no messages diaplayed on the
> screen or any other indication of life.

> Have I ruined my processor turning the system on with out
> the 12V attached? (This is the four wires from the power
> supply that plug into the mobo right next to the processor,
> for those that may not be familiar with installing stuff.)

What have you done to prove your power supply isn't bad? New ones can be DOA. 
Did you install 100% compatible RAM? Did you try installing only one RAM stick, 
or leaving all unnecessary devices (if there is onboard video, the gfxcard; HD; 
DVD reader; accessory USB ports; speakers; etc.) disconnected? Are you sure the 
CPU is fully compatible with the motherboard's firmware/BIOS/chipset (just 
because it fits the socket is no guarantee it will work)?
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#178038

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

One time I hooked up the power switch to the wrong jumpers and it took me an hour to figure it out.

I would suggest double checking everything to make sure there's nothing you missed. And as Felix already mentioned, parts can be dead on arrival so that is the next thing I would look for.


--
Steven Mainor

On February 20, 2017 4:41:30 PM EST, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Dennis Wicks composed on 2017-02-20 15:00 (UTC-0600):
>
>> I built myself another computer and it wouldn't boot up. No
>> messages or anything. I finally discovered that I missed
>> plugging in the 12V power to the MoBo.
>I've done that many times while building, replacing or troubleshooting.
>You 
>can't hurt a CPU by not giving it any power.
>
>> I did that and it
>> still won't boot up, and still no messages diaplayed on the
>> screen or any other indication of life.
>
>> Have I ruined my processor turning the system on with out
>> the 12V attached? (This is the four wires from the power
>> supply that plug into the mobo right next to the processor,
>> for those that may not be familiar with installing stuff.)
>
>What have you done to prove your power supply isn't bad? New ones can
>be DOA. 
>Did you install 100% compatible RAM? Did you try installing only one
>RAM stick, 
>or leaving all unnecessary devices (if there is onboard video, the
>gfxcard; HD; 
>DVD reader; accessory USB ports; speakers; etc.) disconnected? Are you
>sure the 
>CPU is fully compatible with the motherboard's firmware/BIOS/chipset
>(just 
>because it fits the socket is no guarantee it will work)?
>-- 
>"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
>words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>
>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>
>Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#178039

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Most of the motherboard gives beep tone or light indication when POST
completes.
If there is no sign of life( no beep or even a led blink) then probably the
MoBo not even attempted POST.

I suggest to double check that all motherboard power connectors are
connected .
Usually 4pin or 8pin 12v motherboard power connector(which you already
connected),large 24pin motherboard power connector and sometimes additional
4 pin molex connector.

There might also be an issue with power switch. You can try disconnecting
power switch and touch the power switch pins simultaneously with conductive
metal like screwdriver. Just careful when doing this.

-Vikki

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> wrote:

> One time I hooked up the power switch to the wrong jumpers and it took me
> an hour to figure it out.
>
> I would suggest double checking everything to make sure there's nothing
> you missed. And as Felix already mentioned, parts can be dead on arrival so
> that is the next thing I would look for.
>
>
> --
> Steven Mainor
>
>
> On February 20, 2017 4:41:30 PM EST, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> Dennis Wicks composed on 2017-02-20 15:00 (UTC-0600):
>>
>>  I built myself another computer and it wouldn't boot up. No
>>>  messages or anything. I finally discovered that I missed
>>>  plugging in the 12V power to the MoBo.
>>>
>> I've done that many times while building, replacing or troubleshooting. You
>> can't hurt a CPU by not giving it any power.
>>
>>  I did that and it
>>>  still won't boot up, and still no messages diaplayed on the
>>>  screen or any other indication of life.
>>>
>>
>>  Have I ruined my processor turning the system on with out
>>>  the 12V
>>> attached? (This is the four wires from the power
>>>  supply that plug into the mobo right next to the processor,
>>>  for those that may not be familiar with installing stuff.)
>>>
>>
>> What have you done to prove your power supply isn't bad? New ones can be DOA.
>> Did you install 100% compatible RAM? Did you try installing only one RAM stick,
>> or leaving all unnecessary devices (if there is onboard video, the gfxcard; HD;
>> DVD reader; accessory USB ports; speakers; etc.) disconnected? Are you sure the
>> CPU is fully compatible with the motherboard's firmware/BIOS/chipset (just
>> because it fits the socket is no guarantee it will work)?
>> --
>> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
>> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>>
>>   Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>>
>> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
>>
>>

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#178042

Vignesh Ragupathy:

> 
> There might also be an issue with power switch. You can try disconnecting
> power switch and touch the power switch pins simultaneously with conductive
> metal like screwdriver. Just careful when doing this.
> 
> -Vikki

Never a good idea, there are cheap tools of measuring current, a short
can blow a good power source/transformer.  How do you check industrial 3
phase 440V, just ground it with a train rail see if there are any sparks.


-- 
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

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#178044

GiaThnYgeia composed on 2017-02-21 12:41 (UTC):

> Vignesh Ragupathy:

>> There might also be an issue with power switch. You can try disconnecting
>> power switch and touch the power switch pins simultaneously with conductive
>> metal like screwdriver. Just careful when doing this.

> Never a good idea, there are cheap tools of measuring current, a short
> can blow a good power source/transformer.

Never say never, or always. In this case, there's no material current involved. 
The power supply is switched on by a momentary 5v supply from the connection of 
these two contacts that uncommonly have any risk of touching anything nearby 
that has potential to cause damage. Vignesh's suggestion is actually how bench 
checking a new motherboard before installation in a case is commonly performed:
http://www.techsupportforum.com/19082-how-to-bench-test-build-and-troubleshoot-your-computer/
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#178045

GiaThnYgeia wrote:
>
>
> Vignesh Ragupathy:
>
>> 
>> There might also be an issue with power switch. You can try disconnecting
>> power switch and touch the power switch pins simultaneously with conductive
>> metal like screwdriver. Just careful when doing this.
>> 
>> -Vikki
>
> Never a good idea, there are cheap tools of measuring current, a short
> can blow a good power source/transformer.  How do you check industrial 3
> phase 440V, just ground it with a train rail see if there are any sparks.
>

Hint - that's exactly what the on switch does. 

Granted we're talking 5V with a max current of 1-2mA or somesuch, and not
440VAC.  It's no more dangerous than touching the red and black leads of
a battery holder[1] to a small lightbulb (such as used in a flashlight,
model car, etc.) or a LED to verify it works / you have polarity right.
Actually, given that it's limited to 1-2mA, it's probably SAFER than
said battery-holder (since most dry-cell batteries can supply 2A
current, albeit for a very short amount of time).

And to ensure the motherboard isn't the culprit, you can always connect
the PS_ON (green) wire (in the 20/24-pin connector)any GND pin (black
wire) with a short length of wire.  

[1] https://img.fasttechcdn.com/128/1289504/1289504-2.jpg
-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#178048

On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 08:37:11 AM Dan Purgert wrote:
> GiaThnYgeia wrote:
...
> > Never a good idea, there are cheap tools of measuring current, a short
> > can blow a good power source/transformer.  How do you check industrial 3
> > phase 440V, just ground it with a train rail see if there are any sparks.
> 
> Hint - that's exactly what the on switch does.
> 
> Granted we're talking 5V with a max current of 1-2mA or somesuch, and not
> 440VAC.  It's no more dangerous than touching the red and black leads of
> a battery holder[1] to a small lightbulb (such as used in a flashlight,
> model car, etc.) or a LED to verify it works / you have polarity right.
> Actually, given that it's limited to 1-2mA, it's probably SAFER than
> said battery-holder (since most dry-cell batteries can supply 2A
> current, albeit for a very short amount of time).

I agree that giving advice like touching the switch pins with a screwdriver is 
a bad idea--among other things, somebody might "learn" from that and try it 
under more dangerous circumstances.  

(And, do you remember the days when computer on-off switches controlled the 120 
VAC to the power supply?  Granted, you could do the same thing semi-safely, 
but make sure the screwdriver blade doesn't touch the grounded chassis or some 
other grounded piece of metal work--those switches always seemed to be very 
inaccessible.)
 
> And to ensure the motherboard isn't the culprit, you can always connect
> the PS_ON (green) wire (in the 20/24-pin connector)any GND pin (black
> wire) with a short length of wire.

In case it is not clear, you do this by unplugging the 20/24 pin cable from 
the power supply and then note if the fan starts running.  (Unless I 
misunderstand what Dan is suggesting.

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#178049

rhkramer@gmail.com:
> On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 08:37:11 AM Dan Purgert wrote:
>> GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> ...
>>> Never a good idea, there are cheap tools of measuring current, a short
>>> can blow a good power source/transformer.  How do you check industrial 3
>>> phase 440V, just ground it with a train rail see if there are any sparks.
> 
> I agree that giving advice like touching the switch pins with a screwdriver is 
> a bad idea--among other things, somebody might "learn" from that and try it 
> under more dangerous circumstances.  

I was not referring to the human danger when I advised against it,
although there have been sensitive people who have passed away due to
heart failure with minor shocks.  But, imagine having no switches and
bare wires everywhere and you just twisted them to close a circuit.

Also, welding machines exist for a reason, otherwise you can do welding
ideally with what comes out the shocket/mains with 110/220 50/60hz and
the right electrode for the right material.  Switches are good for
making sufficient contact abruptly and almost instantly, for a reason.

A chinese v/a/Ω meter costs as much as a sandwich and lasts a lifetime
of abuse (maybe get three to have a good one).

A battery voltage and the circuitry of transforming mains AC to various
DC are not the shame.  The worst a battery can do is blow up in your
face or get discharged.  Try finding a replacement diode at your
neighborhood store.

Sometimes in modern boards the contacts of the cpu to the board make all
the difference and unless there is a led coming on somewhere it may seem
as a dead board even with current running.  lap/Notepads are notorious
for pretending they are dead.  They are tons of good motherboards on
landfills.

-- 
 "The most violent element in society is ignorance" rEG

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#178062

rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
>> And to ensure the motherboard isn't the culprit, you can always connect
>> the PS_ON (green) wire (in the 20/24-pin connector)any GND pin (black
>> wire) with a short length of wire.
>
> In case it is not clear, you do this by unplugging the 20/24 pin cable
> from the power supply and then note if the fan starts running.
> (Unless I misunderstand what Dan is suggesting.

Nope, you're spot on.  Bear in mind too that if you've left the HDD / CD
/ etc. connected, they'll all spin up too (unless, ofc, the PSU is dead).


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#178047

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

>
>
> >> There might also be an issue with power switch. You can try
> disconnecting
> >> power switch and touch the power switch pins simultaneously with
> conductive
> >> metal like screwdriver. Just careful when doing this.
> >>
> >> -Vikki
> >
> > Never a good idea, there are cheap tools of measuring current, a short
> > can blow a good power source/transformer.  How do you check industrial 3
> > phase 440V, just ground it with a train rail see if there are any sparks.
> >
>


Sorry about the confusion. I was referring to the power button in CPU case
and pins from the motherboard.
Thanks  Felix Miata and Dan Purgert for the explanation.

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#178050

MoBo in this "place" (connector for power button, reset, leds, etc) has
5V or lower voltage (depends on model), and very low and safe current.
If You do this whith good light its not possible to make short circuit
on another place in mobo unless... You are drunk at this work :)


Dnia 2017-02-21, wto o godzinie 12:41 +0000, GiaThnYgeia pisze:
> 
> Vignesh Ragupathy:
> 
> > 
> > There might also be an issue with power switch. You can try disconnecting
> > power switch and touch the power switch pins simultaneously with conductive
> > metal like screwdriver. Just careful when doing this.
> > 
> > -Vikki
> 
> Never a good idea, there are cheap tools of measuring current, a short
> can blow a good power source/transformer.  How do you check industrial 3
> phase 440V, just ground it with a train rail see if there are any sparks.
> 
> 

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