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[Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop

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  [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-06-24 04:50 +0200
    Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-06-24 10:10 +0200
      Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2017-06-24 10:30 +0200
        Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Wellington Terumi Uemura <wellingtonuemura@gmail.com> - 2017-06-24 11:10 +0200
          Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2017-06-24 11:40 +0200
      Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-06-27 03:30 +0200
        Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-06-27 10:20 +0200
    Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2017-06-24 11:10 +0200
      Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-06-24 21:40 +0200
        Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-06-26 14:30 +0200
          Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-06-26 16:10 +0200
          Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-06-27 03:40 +0200
        Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-06-27 03:30 +0200
    Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-06-24 11:40 +0200
      Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-06-27 03:30 +0200
    Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-06-24 12:50 +0200
      Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-06-27 03:30 +0200
        Re: [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-06-27 11:00 +0200

#182570 — [Stretch] Fix for not network after installing without desktop

I want to share with everyone a fix for not getting network / internet 
if you're installing Debian without a desktop (ie. not selecting a 
desktop AND Unchecking the Debian Desktop Environment option).

If you install as I mentioned above and reboot, you get the command 
prompt to log into (which is what I wanted so I could install minimal 
KDE as I mentioned in another post). However, you can NOT get on the 
internet! Even though the installer used the internet and set it up, the 
settings won't stick. That's because the installer doesn't install 
network-manager into the system!

So what I do to get around this and get the network settings to "stick" 
when rebooting:

1. When installing, at the screen that says to remove media and reboot, 
DO NOT do this yet! Do not press Continue either.

2. CTRL+ALT+F3 (or some function key) to get to a terminal. Press ENTER 
to activate the terminal.

3. Execute this: apt-install network-manager

4. The screen will go completely blank (except for a dash in the lower 
right). This will seem like the computer "crashed" but it didn't! Wait 
awhile (it does take awhile and no progress is shown). The # prompt will 
return.

5. CTRL+ALT+ (function key - keep trying until you get to the GUI). Do 
this ONLY AFTER the # prompt returns so you can be sure that the 
installation of network-manager is complete (since there's no indication 
of it installing or progressing when it's being done).

6. Click "Continue" in the GUI installer to finish up.

Log into the command prompt and do a 'sudo apt-get update'. Internet 
should now be working.

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#182584

On 2017-06-24, RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote:
>
> 3. Execute this: apt-install network-manager
>

Is that right? Or is it not rather "apt install" without the hyphen (I'm
still Wheezing so I'm unsure).

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#182585

Le 24/06/2017 à 10:01, Curt a écrit :
> On 2017-06-24, RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote:
>>
>> 3. Execute this: apt-install network-manager
>>
>
> Is that right? Or is it not rather "apt install" without the hyphen (I'm
> still Wheezing so I'm unsure).

apt-install is a debian-installer specific command, which installs the 
package in the target system.

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#182586

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Maybe you meant to say apt-get install

Em 24 de jun de 2017 05:27, "Pascal Hambourg" <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org>
escreveu:

> Le 24/06/2017 à 10:01, Curt a écrit :
>
>> On 2017-06-24, RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 3. Execute this: apt-install network-manager
>>>
>>>
>> Is that right? Or is it not rather "apt install" without the hyphen (I'm
>> still Wheezing so I'm unsure).
>>
>
> apt-install is a debian-installer specific command, which installs the
> package in the target system.
>
>

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#182591

Le 24/06/2017 à 11:02, Wellington Terumi Uemura a écrit :
> Maybe you meant to say apt-get install

No I don't. I meant exactly what I wrote.

Please don't top post.

> Em 24 de jun de 2017 05:27, "Pascal Hambourg" <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org>
> escreveu:
>
>> apt-install is a debian-installer specific command, which installs the
>> package in the target system.

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#182728

On 06/24/2017 04:01 AM, Curt wrote:
> On 2017-06-24, RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote:
>>
>> 3. Execute this: apt-install network-manager
>>
>
> Is that right? Or is it not rather "apt install" without the hyphen (I'm
> still Wheezing so I'm unsure).

Yes. There's no 'apt-get' when you are going into the terminal from the 
installer. I looked in the usual 'bin' directories and this is what I 
found. 'apt-install' with hyphen is what works.

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#182737

On 2017-06-27, RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote:
> On 06/24/2017 04:01 AM, Curt wrote:
>> On 2017-06-24, RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> 3. Execute this: apt-install network-manager
>>>
>>
>> Is that right? Or is it not rather "apt install" without the hyphen (I'm
>> still Wheezing so I'm unsure).
>
> Yes. There's no 'apt-get' when you are going into the terminal from the 
> installer. I looked in the usual 'bin' directories and this is what I 
> found. 'apt-install' with hyphen is what works.
>

Okay. Good work. Thank you (and Pascal Hambourg).


-- 
“Yeah yeah.” --Sidney Morgenbesser's retort to a speaker who said that although
there are many cases in which two negatives make a positive, he knew of no case
in which two positives made a negative.

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#182587

Le 06/24/17 à 04:43, RavenLX a écrit :
> I want to share with everyone a fix for not getting network / internet
> if you're installing Debian without a desktop (ie. not selecting a
> desktop AND Unchecking the Debian Desktop Environment option).
> 
> If you install as I mentioned above and reboot, you get the command
> prompt to log into (which is what I wanted so I could install minimal
> KDE as I mentioned in another post). However, you can NOT get on the
> internet! Even though the installer used the internet and set it up, the
> settings won't stick. That's because the installer doesn't install
> network-manager into the system!

Do you mean that network-manager is compulsory in stretch ? Impossible
to use a fixed configuration in /etc/network/interfaces or another
connection manager like wicd ?

It would surprise me.

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#182609

On Sat 24 Jun 2017 at 11:07:13 +0200, Erwan David wrote:

> Le 06/24/17 à 04:43, RavenLX a écrit :
> > I want to share with everyone a fix for not getting network / internet
> > if you're installing Debian without a desktop (ie. not selecting a
> > desktop AND Unchecking the Debian Desktop Environment option).
> > 
> > If you install as I mentioned above and reboot, you get the command
> > prompt to log into (which is what I wanted so I could install minimal
> > KDE as I mentioned in another post). However, you can NOT get on the
> > internet! Even though the installer used the internet and set it up, the
> > settings won't stick. That's because the installer doesn't install
> > network-manager into the system!
> 
> Do you mean that network-manager is compulsory in stretch ? Impossible
> to use a fixed configuration in /etc/network/interfaces or another
> connection manager like wicd ?

The OP is particularly drawing attention to a situation which could
possibly occur when *Debian is installed*. Unfortunately, although one
of the conditions under which the installation was done (no selection
of a DE) is stated, the complete situation is not described. This
reduces the usefulness of the suggested fix.

> It would surprise me.

If that was what was being suggested it would surprise everyone. But it
isn't, so it doesn't.

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#182673

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 11:07:13AM +0200, Erwan David wrote:
> Do you mean that network-manager is compulsory in stretch ? Impossible
> to use a fixed configuration in /etc/network/interfaces or another
> connection manager like wicd ?

No, this is not the case.  I've got two stretch desktop systems that
use /e/n/i and not network-manager.  I have *never* used n-m.

> It would surprise me.

The OP is well intentioned, but is only presenting anecdotal experience
from one system, without sufficient detail to understand where things
went wrong.

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 08:33:00PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> The OP is particularly drawing attention to a situation which could
> possibly occur when *Debian is installed*. Unfortunately, although one
> of the conditions under which the installation was done (no selection
> of a DE) is stated, the complete situation is not described. This
> reduces the usefulness of the suggested fix.

"No DE selected" is not the underlying cause either.  I've installed
Debian without selecting a DE, many times, on many computers, and I've
never needed n-m.

Granted, I have never directly installed Stretch yet.  Only Jessie and
earlier.  My two Stretch systems are upgrades.

If I had to guess, I would guess that the OP's system is a laptop, and
the OP is attempting to use a wireless network of some kind.  There may
be setups where n-m handles wireless stuff particularly well.

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#182682

On Mon 26 Jun 2017 at 08:24:10 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 11:07:13AM +0200, Erwan David wrote:
> > Do you mean that network-manager is compulsory in stretch ? Impossible
> > to use a fixed configuration in /etc/network/interfaces or another
> > connection manager like wicd ?
> 
> No, this is not the case.  I've got two stretch desktop systems that
> use /e/n/i and not network-manager.  I have *never* used n-m.
> 
> > It would surprise me.
> 
> The OP is well intentioned, but is only presenting anecdotal experience
> from one system, without sufficient detail to understand where things
> went wrong.

It is very, very likely nothing went wrong and d-i did exactly what it
is designed to do, but the lack of detail on the installation conditions
makes it difficult to be be 100% certain. Please see later.

> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 08:33:00PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > The OP is particularly drawing attention to a situation which could
> > possibly occur when *Debian is installed*. Unfortunately, although one
> > of the conditions under which the installation was done (no selection
> > of a DE) is stated, the complete situation is not described. This
> > reduces the usefulness of the suggested fix.
> 
> "No DE selected" is not the underlying cause either.  I've installed
> Debian without selecting a DE, many times, on many computers, and I've
> never needed n-m.

"No DE selected" *is* one of the underlying causes. It is not really a
matter of *needing* n-m but of being given it by the installer when a
DE is selected. Please see later.

> Granted, I have never directly installed Stretch yet.  Only Jessie and
> earlier.  My two Stretch systems are upgrades.

If the OP's observations are not due to a bug you would find the Jessie
installer behaving in the same way as described below.

> If I had to guess, I would guess that the OP's system is a laptop, and
> the OP is attempting to use a wireless network of some kind.  There may
> be setups where n-m handles wireless stuff particularly well.

I dislike guessing, myself, especially when extra information is so easy
to supply, but your guess is a good one.

netcfg sets up the network during installation and writes a temporary
/e/n/i stanza. If a user installs a DE and n-m is installed the stanza
is not copied to /target, the assumption being, I suppose, that the user
would want n-m to handle the network. This happens when either a wired
or wireless connection is used to install.

If the user uses a cabled connection but does not select a DE the stanza
is copied to /target.

If a user has a wireless connection but does not select a DE the stanza
is not copied to /target but rewritten to contain loopback only and then
copied over. On first boot there is no external connectivity. Your guess
is as good as mine why a wireless installation is treated differently
from a cabled one. I have never seen any adequate justification for
denying external connectivity in this circumstance.

Sources: netcfg's 55netcfg-copy-config script and its bug record.

-- 
Brian.

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#182732

On 06/26/2017 08:24 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
[snip]

> If I had to guess, I would guess that the OP's system is a laptop, and
> the OP is attempting to use a wireless network of some kind.  There may
> be setups where n-m handles wireless stuff particularly well.

You guessed right. I am sorry I didn't think to add those details 
because I (probably wrongly) assumed it was something that just happens. 
I also had this issue with two laptops: A 10-yr. old Lenovo/IBM ThinkPad 
T61 and a newer (I think about 4 or 5 yrs - forgot how old) HP Pavilion 
g7 2010-nr laptop. Both installing via WiFi using the firmware 
(non-free) install DVD (and no other DVDs). I was installing off a USB 
drive on both.

When I wrote the post, I assumed that it would do that because I was 
installing without a Desktop. I hadn't realized that maybe other factors 
may have been the reason.

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#182731

On 06/24/2017 03:33 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Sat 24 Jun 2017 at 11:07:13 +0200, Erwan David wrote:
>
>> Le 06/24/17 à 04:43, RavenLX a écrit :
>>> I want to share with everyone a fix for not getting network / internet
>>> if you're installing Debian without a desktop (ie. not selecting a
>>> desktop AND Unchecking the Debian Desktop Environment option).
>>>
>>> If you install as I mentioned above and reboot, you get the command
>>> prompt to log into (which is what I wanted so I could install minimal
>>> KDE as I mentioned in another post). However, you can NOT get on the
>>> internet! Even though the installer used the internet and set it up, the
>>> settings won't stick. That's because the installer doesn't install
>>> network-manager into the system!
>>
>> Do you mean that network-manager is compulsory in stretch ? Impossible
>> to use a fixed configuration in /etc/network/interfaces or another
>> connection manager like wicd ?
>
> The OP is particularly drawing attention to a situation which could
> possibly occur when *Debian is installed*. Unfortunately, although one
> of the conditions under which the installation was done (no selection
> of a DE) is stated, the complete situation is not described. This
> reduces the usefulness of the suggested fix.
>

My Bad: I was installing no DE *and* via WiFi (not cable) connection on 
a 10 yr. old laptop.

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#182592

On Fri 23 Jun 2017 at 22:43:40 -0400, RavenLX wrote:

> I want to share with everyone a fix for not getting network / internet if
> you're installing Debian without a desktop (ie. not selecting a desktop AND
> Unchecking the Debian Desktop Environment option).
> 
> If you install as I mentioned above and reboot, you get the command prompt
> to log into (which is what I wanted so I could install minimal KDE as I
> mentioned in another post). However, you can NOT get on the internet! Even
> though the installer used the internet and set it up, the settings won't
> stick. That's because the installer doesn't install network-manager into the
> system!

Installing over a cabled connection gives a stanza in /e/n/i which
sticks. It is a bug if it doesn't. It is possible you have not
mentioned a crucial aspect of the way you installed.

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#182730

On 06/24/2017 05:38 AM, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 23 Jun 2017 at 22:43:40 -0400, RavenLX wrote:
>
>> I want to share with everyone a fix for not getting network / internet if
>> you're installing Debian without a desktop (ie. not selecting a desktop AND
>> Unchecking the Debian Desktop Environment option).
>>
>> If you install as I mentioned above and reboot, you get the command prompt
>> to log into (which is what I wanted so I could install minimal KDE as I
>> mentioned in another post). However, you can NOT get on the internet! Even
>> though the installer used the internet and set it up, the settings won't
>> stick. That's because the installer doesn't install network-manager into the
>> system!
>
> Installing over a cabled connection gives a stanza in /e/n/i which
> sticks. It is a bug if it doesn't. It is possible you have not
> mentioned a crucial aspect of the way you installed.

You're right. I didn't. I was installing using WiFi (too much 
trouble/bending, etc. to plug in a friggen cable! :D )

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#182594

On Fri 23 Jun 2017 at 22:43:40 -0400, RavenLX wrote:

> I want to share with everyone a fix for not getting network / internet if
> you're installing Debian without a desktop (ie. not selecting a desktop AND
> Unchecking the Debian Desktop Environment option).
> 
> If you install as I mentioned above and reboot, you get the command prompt
> to log into (which is what I wanted so I could install minimal KDE as I
> mentioned in another post). However, you can NOT get on the internet! Even
> though the installer used the internet and set it up, the settings won't
> stick. That's because the installer doesn't install network-manager into the
> system!
> 
> So what I do to get around this and get the network settings to "stick" when
> rebooting:
> 
> 1. When installing, at the screen that says to remove media and reboot, DO
> NOT do this yet! Do not press Continue either.
> 
> 2. CTRL+ALT+F3 (or some function key) to get to a terminal. Press ENTER to
> activate the terminal.
> 
> 3. Execute this: apt-install network-manager

3. Backup the interfaces file in /target/etc/network

[Snip]
 
> 6. Click "Continue" in the GUI installer to finish up.

Log into the command prompt and restore the interfaces file and use
ifup.

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#182729

On 06/24/2017 06:44 AM, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 23 Jun 2017 at 22:43:40 -0400, RavenLX wrote:
>
>> I want to share with everyone a fix for not getting network / internet if
>> you're installing Debian without a desktop (ie. not selecting a desktop AND
>> Unchecking the Debian Desktop Environment option).
>>
>> If you install as I mentioned above and reboot, you get the command prompt
>> to log into (which is what I wanted so I could install minimal KDE as I
>> mentioned in another post). However, you can NOT get on the internet! Even
>> though the installer used the internet and set it up, the settings won't
>> stick. That's because the installer doesn't install network-manager into the
>> system!
>>
>> So what I do to get around this and get the network settings to "stick" when
>> rebooting:
>>
>> 1. When installing, at the screen that says to remove media and reboot, DO
>> NOT do this yet! Do not press Continue either.
>>
>> 2. CTRL+ALT+F3 (or some function key) to get to a terminal. Press ENTER to
>> activate the terminal.
>>
>> 3. Execute this: apt-install network-manager
>
> 3. Backup the interfaces file in /target/etc/network
>
> [Snip]
>
>> 6. Click "Continue" in the GUI installer to finish up.
>
> Log into the command prompt and restore the interfaces file and use
> ifup.
>

I tried using ifup and also tried to edit the interfaces file and it 
didn't seem to work for me. I gave up and decided to do it within the 
installer terminal mode. Seemed a bit easier.

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#182740

On Mon 26 Jun 2017 at 21:27:18 -0400, RavenLX wrote:

> I tried using ifup and also tried to edit the interfaces file and it didn't
> seem to work for me. I gave up and decided to do it within the installer
> terminal mode. Seemed a bit easier.

The installer doesn't have ifupdown but it can be used after first boot
to regain the connection. An /e/n/i stanza would have to be constructed
to replace the one deleted by d-i, of course. All good fun for newcomers
and those with poor memories and no access to a search engine.

If the situation is anticipated to arise, wireless connectivity can be
maintained by preseeding with

 netcfg/target_network_config=ifupdown

-- 
Brian.

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