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Re: Issue with notebook (maybe the battery?)

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  Re: Issue with notebook (maybe the battery?) Daniel Bareiro <daniel-listas@gmx.net> - 2017-05-24 15:10 +0200
    Re: Issue with notebook (maybe the battery?) Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-05-24 17:20 +0200
      Re: Issue with notebook (maybe the battery?) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-25 03:00 +0200
    Re: Issue with notebook (maybe the battery?) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-25 02:30 +0200
      Re: Issue with notebook (maybe the battery?) Daniel Bareiro <daniel-listas@gmx.net> - 2017-05-25 03:00 +0200
        Re: Issue with notebook (maybe the battery?) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-25 03:30 +0200
          Re: Issue with notebook (maybe the battery?) Daniel Bareiro <daniel-listas@gmx.net> - 2017-05-28 03:00 +0200
            Re: Issue with notebook (maybe the battery?) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-06-02 21:40 +0200

#181319 — Re: Issue with notebook (maybe the battery?)

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Hi, David.

On 28/03/17 16:24, David Wright wrote:

>> Yes, as I mentioned in another message in this thread, I have already
>> contacted the supplier to go asking for availability and prices.

> I'll cross my fingers for you. Please do likewise as these are
> the figures from one of my laptops:
> 
> Charger in:
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=872000
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=3800000
> 
> Charger out:
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=872000
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=828000
> 
> IOW my baseline after 8 years is about 20% capacity.

Sorry for my delay in responding.

I'll cross my fingers for you, David. How did your laptop battery continue?

Just yesterday I took my notebook to the provider to test with a new
battery. He said that today he will be contacting me to let me know the
result of the test.

I'll let you know when I have news. Something I can add since my last
update to the mailing list is that the battery charge level with the
charger connected was gradually falling. At the time I took it to the
provider I had 18%.


Many thanks to all who responded to me for the interest and time.

Kind regards,
Daniel

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#181329

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On 28/03/17 16:24, David Wright wrote:

> Charger in:
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=872000
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=3800000
>
> Charger out:
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=872000
> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=828000
>
> IOW my baseline after 8 years is about 20% capacity.

I think at that state it is 95% (828/872) and I think these correspong to 8.28v and 8.72v which is as good as new.
At 8.72v the charging current is switched off to protect the battery. I would think these are 2 x 4.2v polymer batteries with an x amount of amph. What distinguishes a good battery from an old and tired one is the voltage drop after a certain load has been placed (resistance) and how long does it take to fall below a functional level.
In most cases these batteries will go down to 3.2v under load and this is when your electronic circuit will cut them off because amps go so high it may fry itself. A tired battery will show 4.18 and 2" after you hit the power button it will go down to 3.1v.
A broken battery will not reach 4.2v or it will go up in smoke while you are trying to charge it. The problem with those twin packed cells in series is that due to manufacturing inconsistencies you can hardly find an identical pair ever. One is a little bit difficient to the next. Which means that at 8.6v one is almost 4.4 the other is 4.2 and one is getting overcharged the other stays undercharged. At the end of their season the one is as good as new the other is all warn out from overheating cycles. When you open a cheap tablet up that has had battery problems it is almost visible which one of the cells is problematic. The other is always good!

Nothing like a fresh marine deep cycle acid lead battery, now that is some good vaping current :)

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#181355

On Wed 24 May 2017 at 11:12:36 (-0400), Fungi4All wrote:
> On 28/03/17 16:24, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > Charger in:
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=872000
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=3800000
> >
> > Charger out:
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=872000
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=828000
> >
> > IOW my baseline after 8 years is about 20% capacity.
> 
> I think at that state it is 95% (828/872) and I think these correspong to 8.28v and 8.72v which is as good as new.

I think you've misread the labelling here: charge, not voltage.
This "good as new" battery yields the following:

2017-05-24-18-19-29 (timestamp)
POWER_SUPPLY_NAME=BAT0
POWER_SUPPLY_STATUS=Discharging
POWER_SUPPLY_PRESENT=1
POWER_SUPPLY_TECHNOLOGY=Li-ion
POWER_SUPPLY_CYCLE_COUNT=0
POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_MIN_DESIGN=11100000
POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_NOW=11968000
POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=1372000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=1032000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=998000
POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY=96
POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY_LEVEL=Normal
POWER_SUPPLY_MODEL_NAME=DELL JG1688
POWER_SUPPLY_MANUFACTURER=Sanyo
POWER_SUPPLY_SERIAL_NUMBER=770
Charge: 96%

2017-05-24-18-42-30
POWER_SUPPLY_NAME=BAT0
POWER_SUPPLY_STATUS=Discharging
POWER_SUPPLY_PRESENT=1
POWER_SUPPLY_TECHNOLOGY=Li-ion
POWER_SUPPLY_CYCLE_COUNT=0
POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_MIN_DESIGN=11100000
POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_NOW=10604000
POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=2036000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=1032000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=55000
POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY=5
POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY_LEVEL=Low
POWER_SUPPLY_MODEL_NAME=DELL JG1688
POWER_SUPPLY_MANUFACTURER=Sanyo
POWER_SUPPLY_SERIAL_NUMBER=770
Charge: 5%

So that's a loss of 91% charge in 23 minutes. The reviewer of
this machine reported a battery life of over 200 minutes.

The large (400 minute) version of this battery went through a
similar course of gradual failure, except that one or more cells
started to go bad:
Feb 2014: laptop power lights started to beat a tattoo, indicating a problem.
Jul 2014: full capacity down to about 30% of the design maximum.
Mar 2015: total failure; battery power lamps flashed 1 3 5 when pressed.
          I've never seen a non-linear pattern documented, either for
          the short or the long press.

Both batteries date from at least 2009 so I can't really complain.

Cheers,
David.

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#181352

On Wed 24 May 2017 at 10:04:00 (-0300), Daniel Bareiro wrote:
> Hi, David.
> 
> On 28/03/17 16:24, David Wright wrote:
> 
> >> Yes, as I mentioned in another message in this thread, I have already
> >> contacted the supplier to go asking for availability and prices.
> 
> > I'll cross my fingers for you. Please do likewise as these are
> > the figures from one of my laptops:
> > 
> > Charger in:
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=872000
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=3800000
> > 
> > Charger out:
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=872000
> > POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=828000
> > 
> > IOW my baseline after 8 years is about 20% capacity.
> 
> Sorry for my delay in responding.
> 
> I'll cross my fingers for you, David. How did your laptop battery continue?

Nowadays this battery merely acts like an UPS because the laptop
has to be plumbed in to a monitor to be usable (or else used over
ssh). As reported earlier, there's a fault in the screen circuitry
which means it's not really a portable anymore.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/04/msg00533.html

> Just yesterday I took my notebook to the provider to test with a new
> battery. He said that today he will be contacting me to let me know the
> result of the test.
> 
> I'll let you know when I have news. Something I can add since my last
> update to the mailing list is that the battery charge level with the
> charger connected was gradually falling. At the time I took it to the
> provider I had 18%.

It would certainly be interesting to see the numbers from a new
battery if you buy one. I've never owned a laptop (or any other
computer, for that matter) from new.

Cheers,
David.

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#181356

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Hi, David.

On 24/05/17 21:22, David Wright wrote:

>>>> Yes, as I mentioned in another message in this thread, I have already
>>>> contacted the supplier to go asking for availability and prices.

>>> I'll cross my fingers for you. Please do likewise as these are
>>> the figures from one of my laptops:
>>>
>>> Charger in:
>>> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
>>> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=872000
>>> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=3800000
>>>
>>> Charger out:
>>> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=3800000
>>> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=872000
>>> POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=828000
>>>
>>> IOW my baseline after 8 years is about 20% capacity.

>> Sorry for my delay in responding.
>>
>> I'll cross my fingers for you, David. How did your laptop battery continue?

> Nowadays this battery merely acts like an UPS because the laptop
> has to be plumbed in to a monitor to be usable (or else used over
> ssh). As reported earlier, there's a fault in the screen circuitry
> which means it's not really a portable anymore.
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/04/msg00533.html

Ah, I see..

>> Just yesterday I took my notebook to the provider to test with a new
>> battery. He said that today he will be contacting me to let me know the
>> result of the test.
>>
>> I'll let you know when I have news. Something I can add since my last
>> update to the mailing list is that the battery charge level with the
>> charger connected was gradually falling. At the time I took it to the
>> provider I had 18%.

> It would certainly be interesting to see the numbers from a new
> battery if you buy one. I've never owned a laptop (or any other
> computer, for that matter) from new.

Today the supplier sent me an email telling me that they tested with the
new battery, and it operates perfectly. They left the new battery
without power connected, and it operated with correct autonomy. They
checked the battery's power levels from the terminal and it reached the
maximum load limit correctly and then it was decreasing normally.

When you talk about "the numbers", do you mean to see by the console the
values that are obtained for both batteries (voltage, for example) to
make a comparison?


Kind regards,
Daniel

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#181357

On Wed 24 May 2017 at 21:50:20 (-0300), Daniel Bareiro wrote:

> When you talk about "the numbers", do you mean to see by the console the
> values that are obtained for both batteries (voltage, for example) to
> make a comparison?

Yes, the bash function I use is:

battery () 
{ 
    local BATTERYFILE="/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/uevent";
    [ ! -r $BATTERYFILE ] && printf '%s\n' "$BATTERYFILE not found!" && return 1;
    date +%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S;
    cat $BATTERYFILE;
    local FILEBATNOW="/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/charge_now";
    local FILEBATPREV="/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/charge_full";
    local CHARGE=$(( 100 * $(< $FILEBATNOW) / $(< $FILEBATPREV) ));
    [ $CHARGE -lt 100 ] && printf '%s\n' "Charge: $CHARGE%"
}

AIUI uevent gives you the lot, which varies by model etc.
so just   cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/uevent
should do it, with and without the power supply connected.

(I run a slightly more sophisticated version that also
reads the CPU temperature, has error trapping, and changes
the root window colour according to battery state and,
if frying, temperature.)

Cheers,
David.

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#181528

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Hi, David.

On 24/05/17 22:23, David Wright wrote:

>> When you talk about "the numbers", do you mean to see by the console the
>> values that are obtained for both batteries (voltage, for example) to
>> make a comparison?

> Yes, the bash function I use is:
> 
> battery () 
> { 
>     local BATTERYFILE="/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/uevent";
>     [ ! -r $BATTERYFILE ] && printf '%s\n' "$BATTERYFILE not found!" && return 1;
>     date +%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S;
>     cat $BATTERYFILE;
>     local FILEBATNOW="/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/charge_now";
>     local FILEBATPREV="/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/charge_full";
>     local CHARGE=$(( 100 * $(< $FILEBATNOW) / $(< $FILEBATPREV) ));
>     [ $CHARGE -lt 100 ] && printf '%s\n' "Charge: $CHARGE%"
> }

Interesting... thanks for sharing :-)

I had to modify it because in my case I don't have "BAT0/charge_full"
and "BAT0/charge_now". I have "BAT0/energy_now" and "BAT0/energy_full".
Maybe you're using Stretch or a Backports kernel?

> AIUI uevent gives you the lot, which varies by model etc.
> so just   cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/uevent
> should do it, with and without the power supply connected.

Sending the values to a file, I then graphed them using GNUPlot. A
picture tells more than thousands of words :-) It is interesting to see
how the charging curve describes almost a perfect straight line
and then begins to decelerate as it approaches 100%.

https://ibin.co/3Ny1TPsm9oNn.png

> (I run a slightly more sophisticated version that also
> reads the CPU temperature, has error trapping, and changes
> the root window colour according to battery state and,
> if frying, temperature.)

It would be interesting to see it :-)


Kind regards,
Daniel

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#181705

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On Sat 27 May 2017 at 21:55:06 (-0300), Daniel Bareiro wrote:
> Hi, David.
> 
> On 24/05/17 22:23, David Wright wrote:
> 
> >> When you talk about "the numbers", do you mean to see by the console the
> >> values that are obtained for both batteries (voltage, for example) to
> >> make a comparison?
> 
> > Yes, the bash function I use is:
> > 
> > battery () 
> > { 
> >     local BATTERYFILE="/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/uevent";
> >     [ ! -r $BATTERYFILE ] && printf '%s\n' "$BATTERYFILE not found!" && return 1;
> >     date +%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S;
> >     cat $BATTERYFILE;
> >     local FILEBATNOW="/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/charge_now";
> >     local FILEBATPREV="/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/charge_full";
> >     local CHARGE=$(( 100 * $(< $FILEBATNOW) / $(< $FILEBATPREV) ));
> >     [ $CHARGE -lt 100 ] && printf '%s\n' "Charge: $CHARGE%"
> > }
> 
> Interesting... thanks for sharing :-)
> 
> I had to modify it because in my case I don't have "BAT0/charge_full"
> and "BAT0/charge_now". I have "BAT0/energy_now" and "BAT0/energy_full".
> Maybe you're using Stretch or a Backports kernel?

I get the same filenames on my systems with wheezy, jessie, and the
latter using a backported 4.9 kernel. But I've never investigated
where these decisions are made. Similarly it's a mystery to me why
wheezy gives one laptop two sound controls, whereas jessie gives
it five.

> > (I run a slightly more sophisticated version that also
> > reads the CPU temperature, has error trapping, and changes
> > the root window colour according to battery state and,
> > if frying, temperature.)
> 
> It would be interesting to see it :-)

Sure. Feel free to modify it to your taste. The laptop I wrote it
for has one critical temperature point (99), hence the two headroom
values which are arbitrary. The first would be reached at such
times as playing videos, so it warned me in case it was lying
on a soft surface, which interferes with its ventilation.

This laptop, which is older, appears to be more sophisticated,
having four trip point temperatures, and also a battery temperature.
But it doesn't overheat so I've never bothered to modify the code.

The charge colours are more useful most of the time, especially
when the batteries are as old as these are.

Cheers,
David.

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