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Installation Input required

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  Installation Input required Ashok Inder <ashoka.inder.dev@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 11:00 +0200
    Re: Installation Input required <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-05-05 11:20 +0200
      Re: Installation Input required Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2017-05-05 20:50 +0200
    Re: Installation Input required "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-05-05 11:50 +0200
      Re: Installation Input required Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-05-05 15:20 +0200
        Re: Installation Input required Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2017-05-05 16:10 +0200
        Re: Installation Input required "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-05-05 16:20 +0200
        Re: Installation Input required David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-05 17:50 +0200
        Re: Installation Input required Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-05-05 19:50 +0200
    Re: Installation Input required Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-05-05 15:20 +0200

#180712 — Installation Input required

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Hi,

Fairly new to Debian environment. I downloaded the 3 DVD
(debian-8.7.1-amd64-DVD-1.iso, debian-8.7.1-amd64-DVD-2.iso,
debian-8.7.1-amd64-DVD-3.iso). The reason for downloading all setup were:
1) Speed internet available in my office and allowed to download and
take it on usb flash drive.
2) Slow speed net in home (were I'm supposed to install debian) and
hence no netinst iso.
3) Setup would have all software that I would need, and a good
probability that some would have been on DVD2 or DVD3. This would have
ensured that I never had to use apt-get update && apt-get upgrade

During the entire setup screen, the debian installer did not asked me
for the 2nd or 3rd DVD. Also many a places its mentioned that the DVD is
a set of 12 DVD but I only found 3 set DVD.

Support pages mention that installer will ask for other part of the DVD
as an option. It never asked, only driver cd/dvd was asked.

Just wondering that did I missed something?

Also I installed with Sudo option (no root account), will this be of any
disadvantage at anytime in future over Sudo considering I'm not a power
user.

Regards,
Ashok Kumar

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#180714

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Hash: SHA1

On Fri, May 05, 2017 at 02:26:44PM +0530, Ashok Inder wrote:
> Hi,

[...]

> During the entire setup screen, the debian installer did not asked me
> for the 2nd or 3rd DVD. Also many a places its mentioned that the DVD is
> a set of 12 DVD but I only found 3 set DVD.
> 
> Support pages mention that installer will ask for other part of the DVD
> as an option. It never asked, only driver cd/dvd was asked.
> 
> Just wondering that did I missed something?

I don't know for sure, but I think this is a testament to the CD
team: they work very hard to have the most-used things in the first
DVD. Seems to have worked, kudos to them :-)

> Also I installed with Sudo option (no root account), will this be of any
> disadvantage at anytime in future over Sudo considering I'm not a power
> user.

There is just one downside I know of: if the system panics on boot,
e.g. because it can't mount the root file system (say, because it's
corrupted), it will ask you for the root password before giving you
a root shell, for you to analyse and possibly fix the situation. I've
been in that position once, having drunk the Kool Aid to the bottom
of the glass. Very frustrating, believe me :)

I'm still a fan of sudo, but have learnt since then to leave a bit
in the glass and actually have a root password.

Nothing, of course, which can't be fixed by having around a rescue
disk.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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#180743

Le 05/05/2017 à 11:16, tomas@tuxteam.de a écrit :
>
> On Fri, May 05, 2017 at 02:26:44PM +0530, Ashok Inder wrote:
>
>> During the entire setup screen, the debian installer did not asked me
>> for the 2nd or 3rd DVD. Also many a places its mentioned that the DVD is
>> a set of 12 DVD but I only found 3 set DVD.
>>
>> Support pages mention that installer will ask for other part of the DVD
>> as an option. It never asked, only driver cd/dvd was asked.
>>
>> Just wondering that did I missed something?

The Debian installer does not know how many CDs or DVD there are nor 
what they contain.

I remember that, after scanning the first installation disk, the Debian 
installer used to ask whether I wanted to scan other disks. I have not 
seen that option for a long time. Maybe it is available only when 
booting from a real optical disk instead of a USB drive.

>> Also I installed with Sudo option (no root account), will this be of any
>> disadvantage at anytime in future over Sudo considering I'm not a power
>> user.

Yes. It will be a disadvantage if you need to log in directly as root to 
fix things when log in as a normal user does not work any more (e.g. 
/home filesystem full or mounted read-only or could not be mounted, or 
corrupted user profile).

> There is just one downside I know of: if the system panics on boot,
> e.g. because it can't mount the root file system (say, because it's
> corrupted), it will ask you for the root password before giving you
> a root shell

Of course not. If the initramfs cannot mount the root filesystem, it 
cannot read /etc/shadow and check the root password. It just drops a 
root shell.

The root password is asked when booting in emergency mode, either when 
selecting a "rescue" entry in the boot loader or when something went 
wrong during the init phase, e.g. a filesystem listed in /etc/fstab 
could not be mounted.

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#180717

Hi,

Ashok Inder wrote:
> During the entire setup screen, the debian installer did not asked me
> for the 2nd or 3rd DVD.

Can it be you only asked for installing stuff which is on DVD 1 ?

If the lack of requesting other DVDs led to a system which does not
contain what you asked for, then this would be a topic for the debian-cd
list.
If all seems well, then you probably only needed DVD 1.


> Also many a places its mentioned that the DVD is
> a set of 12 DVD but I only found 3 set DVD.

This question was asked often enough to cause the existence of
  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#not-all-images
which says
  "We don't store/serve the full set of ISO images for all architectures,
   to reduce the amount of space taken up on the mirrors. You can use the
   jigdo tool to recreate the missing ISO images instead."


The advantage of Jigdo for the DVD mirror servers is that the bulk
of data can be fetched from Debian servers which provide packages.
Jigdo loads a compressed ISO image with lots of holes and then loads
all the package files which fit exactly into the holes.

Here is a nice illustration from the times when disc images were still
made of wood ;-)
  https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e7/22/0c/e7220c2e4ed04fbd2d2e233e1b7cb90f.jpg


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#180724

On 05/05/2017 04:49 AM, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> [snip]
> This question was asked often enough to cause the existence of
>   https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#not-all-images
> which says
>   "We don't store/serve the full set of ISO images for all
> architectures, to reduce the amount of space taken up on the mirrors.
> You can use the jigdo tool to recreate the missing ISO images
> instead."
>
>
> The advantage of Jigdo for the DVD mirror servers is that the bulk
> of data can be fetched from Debian servers which provide packages.
> Jigdo loads a compressed ISO image with lots of holes and then loads
> all the package files which fit exactly into the holes.

That eases problems for Debian servers, I don't see an advantage to me.

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#180726

On Fri, 05 May 2017, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >The advantage of Jigdo for the DVD mirror servers is that the bulk
> >of data can be fetched from Debian servers which provide packages.
> >Jigdo loads a compressed ISO image with lots of holes and then loads
> >all the package files which fit exactly into the holes.
> 
> That eases problems for Debian servers, I don't see an advantage to me.

Correct when your issue is low-bandwidth or bandwidth cap.  Jigdo cannot
help, there... but a direct image download wouldn't, either: buying a
DVD/BD set makes more sense.

Jigdo is indeed a direct advantage for the Debian mirror network, and an
indirect advantage to users that would download the image sets from the
mirrors: we would [likely] not be able to provide the larger images *at
all* nowadays on most mirrors.  Jigdo solves that *important* issue.

Jigdo can also be a direct advantage (as in: it will be much faster) for
an user that has a close (or even local) mirror that does not carry the
full DVD/BD images, though:  it will download >95% of the data from the
close mirror, and rsync whatever is missing from the (relatively few)
mirrors that have the full images.

Evidently, when the mirror closer to you also happens to mirror the full
DVD/BD images, downloading those directly makes sense.

-- 
  Henrique Holschuh

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#180728

Hi,

i wrote:
> > The advantage of Jigdo for the DVD mirror servers is that the bulk
> > of data can be fetched from Debian servers which provide packages.

Richard Owlett wrote:
> That eases problems for Debian servers, I don't see an advantage to me.

The advantage for those who need them is that there are full DVD sets
for free. Which other distro still offers this ?

One may question the ergonomic quality of a set of 13 DVDs as on:
  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/jigdo-dvd/
But for example volume 1 of the 3 ISOs on
  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/jigdo-bd/
gives you the equivalent of 5 DVDs on one medium.
To be put on BD medium or on e.g. a 32 GB USB stick.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#180732

On Fri 05 May 2017 at 08:17:34 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/05/2017 04:49 AM, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> >[snip]
> >This question was asked often enough to cause the existence of
> >  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#not-all-images
> >which says
> >  "We don't store/serve the full set of ISO images for all
> >architectures, to reduce the amount of space taken up on the mirrors.
> >You can use the jigdo tool to recreate the missing ISO images
> >instead."
> >
> >
> >The advantage of Jigdo for the DVD mirror servers is that the bulk
> >of data can be fetched from Debian servers which provide packages.
> >Jigdo loads a compressed ISO image with lots of holes and then loads
> >all the package files which fit exactly into the holes.
> 
> That eases problems for Debian servers, I don't see an advantage to me.

That's because you're only thinking about your own space/bandwidth
consumption. However, if there are fewer servers, then those ones
will be busier, and download speeds suffer.

On dial-up, you pay for that speed reduction. In fact, when I used
dial-up at home, there were sites (like washington.edu, remember
Pine?) where it was worth telephoning my office machine (on broadband)
to start downloads there, then telephoning an hour later and
transferring the downloaded files (if they were ready) directly from
office to home, with no pausing. This was faster/cheaper than using the
ISP to download those files directly across the Atlantic.

Cheers,
David.

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#180737

> That eases problems for Debian servers, I don't see an advantage to me.

Given that there is an advantage (for Debian servers), the question
isn't if there's an advantage to you, but instead if there's
a *dis*advantage to you (or others).


        Stefan

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#180723

On 05/05/2017 03:56 AM, Ashok Inder wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Fairly new to Debian environment. I downloaded the 3 DVD
> (debian-8.7.1-amd64-DVD-1.iso, debian-8.7.1-amd64-DVD-2.iso,
> debian-8.7.1-amd64-DVD-3.iso). The reason for downloading all setup were:
> 1) Speed internet available in my office and allowed to download and
> take it on usb flash drive.
> 2) Slow speed net in home (were I'm supposed to install debian) and
> hence no netinst iso.
> [SNIP]

I was on dialup when first installing Squeeze. I found {and still find} 
it convenient to purchase complete DVD sets 
(https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/). My vendor charges $35 for the 13 
DVD set and $3 for a single CD/DVD {Live CDs, utility discs, etc}. I now 
have high speed access but with a minimal data cap.

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