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Measuring aggregate internet useage?

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  Measuring aggregate internet useage? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-04-23 12:30 +0200
    Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2017-04-24 11:40 +0200
      Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-04-24 13:00 +0200
        Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-04-24 13:20 +0200
        Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-04-24 13:20 +0200
        Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage? Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2017-04-24 23:20 +0200
          Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-04-25 15:20 +0200
            BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-04-26 14:20 +0200
              Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-04-26 14:30 +0200
                Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-04-26 14:40 +0200
                  Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-04-26 15:00 +0200
                    Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-26 15:40 +0200
                    Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-04-26 16:40 +0200
                      Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2017-04-26 17:10 +0200
                        Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2017-04-26 17:40 +0200
                      Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?] Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 17:10 +0200
                        Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-04-26 22:30 +0200
                          Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-27 08:50 +0200
                          Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?] Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-04-27 20:30 +0200
                          Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-01 21:00 +0200
                      Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-01 20:40 +0200
                    Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-01 20:20 +0200
                      Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-05-01 20:50 +0200
                        Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-01 21:40 +0200
              Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-04-26 14:40 +0200
                Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 16:10 +0200
                  Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-04-26 16:20 +0200
                    Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 16:30 +0200
                      Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?] Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-04-26 16:40 +0200
                        Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-04-26 18:00 +0200
                  Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-26 16:40 +0200
              Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet  useage?] Jochen Spieker <ml@well-adjusted.de> - 2017-04-26 14:40 +0200

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#180584 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

On Wed 26 Apr 2017 at 09:36:36 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 04/26/2017 07:50 AM, Darac Marjal wrote:
> >On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 08:35:44AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> >>On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 01:25:18PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> >>>For interface statistics from ip, try "ip -s link [interface]".
> >>
> >>On stretch:
> >>
> >>wooledg:~$ ip -s link eth0
> >>Command "eth0" is unknown, try "ip link help".
> >>
> >>wooledg:~$ ip -s link dev eth0
> >>Command "dev" is unknown, try "ip link help".
> >>
> >>wooledg:~$ ip link help
> >>[... enormous BNF dump, entirely missing -s, or any reference whatsoever
> >>    to the fact that you can stick options between "ip" and "link" ...]
> >>
> >>wooledg:~$ ip -s link show eth0
> >>2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast
> >>state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
> >>   link/ether a0:8c:fd:c3:89:e0 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> >>   RX: bytes  packets  errors  dropped overrun mcast
> >>   380719013  1442490  0       0       0       4731
> >>   TX: bytes  packets  errors  dropped carrier collsns
> >>   57971257   614586   0       0       0       0
> >>
> >>Aha!
> >
> >My bad. I actually only got as far as discovering "ip -s link" on my own
> >system. As I was typing up the email I remembered that Richard was after
> >statistics for a specific interface. I should have been more diligent in
> >working out the correct format.
> >
> >>
> >>(Sadly, this is my *typical* experience with the ip command -- trying
> >>random things until one of them works, because the documentation
> >>is impenetrable, and the syntax barely guessable, and certainly not
> >>predictable.)
> >
> >ip *could* do a lot better, it's true. As a monolithic tool, there's not
> >really much excuse for the different sub-tools to parse the commands
> >differently. As you say, "ip address" expects the device to be expressed
> >as "dev eth0", so why doesn't "ip link" handle it the same way? I don't
> >know.
> 
> 
> I would go further saying iproute2 is non-functional due to being
> functionally un-documented.
> 
> https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/iproute2/ip.8.en.html is useless.

It is if you want to know exactly what you can do with one of
the seventeen different objects it can handle. If you want to
know what those objects are, or what options are available, it's
not useless.

> Functional commands, for this thread's topic would be
>   ip -s link
> or
>   ip -s link ls usb0
> 
> No hint of either in so-called man page.
> 
> I accidentally discovered it by following up links when doing
> DuckDuckGo search for "documentation iproute2" (w/o quotes).
> 
> I then did another netinst of testing. There is some subset of the
> "ip" command available after the network has been configured. The
> help is too abbreviated to be useful.

Not at all. The abbreviated help shows you what's available
during the installation process which, as you have noticed,
is often a subset.

Having ascertained that subset, you now know which parts of the
main documentation, available in various locations, still apply.

You seem to want the cut-down man pages to be included in the
installation, which is a surprise coming from someone who seems
concerned about bandwidth almost to the point of obsession.

Cheers,
David.

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#180583 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

On Wed 26 Apr 2017 at 13:50:15 (+0100), Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 08:35:44AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> >On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 01:25:18PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> >>For interface statistics from ip, try "ip -s link [interface]".
> >
> >On stretch:
> >
> >wooledg:~$ ip -s link eth0
> >Command "eth0" is unknown, try "ip link help".
> >
> >wooledg:~$ ip -s link dev eth0
> >Command "dev" is unknown, try "ip link help".
> >
> >wooledg:~$ ip link help
> >[... enormous BNF dump, entirely missing -s, or any reference whatsoever
> >    to the fact that you can stick options between "ip" and "link" ...]

Presumably you realisd that the options to ip are documented in
man ip   and summarised in   ip help. Otherwise, this has to be
duplicated and maintained seventeen times.

> >wooledg:~$ ip -s link show eth0
> >2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
> >   link/ether a0:8c:fd:c3:89:e0 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> >   RX: bytes  packets  errors  dropped overrun mcast
> >   380719013  1442490  0       0       0       4731
> >   TX: bytes  packets  errors  dropped carrier collsns
> >   57971257   614586   0       0       0       0
> >
> >Aha!
> 
> My bad. I actually only got as far as discovering "ip -s link" on my own
> system. As I was typing up the email I remembered that Richard was after
> statistics for a specific interface. I should have been more diligent in
> working out the correct format.
> 
> >
> >(Sadly, this is my *typical* experience with the ip command -- trying
> >random things until one of them works, because the documentation
> >is impenetrable, and the syntax barely guessable, and certainly not
> >predictable.)
> 
> ip *could* do a lot better, it's true. As a monolithic tool, there's not
> really much excuse for the different sub-tools to parse the commands
> differently. As you say, "ip address" expects the device to be expressed
> as "dev eth0", so why doesn't "ip link" handle it the same way? I don't
> know.

They do. Both expect a command. You can "show" something but you can't
"dev" it or, at least, I don't know how to.

Cheers,
David.

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#180585 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 01:18:58PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> They do. Both expect a command. You can "show" something but you can't
> "dev" it or, at least, I don't know how to.

The surprise comes from the fact that typically you can add "dev eth0"
to the end of one working ip command, to get another working ip command
which is restricted to that one interface -- but not always.

ip addr show (working)
ip addr show dev eth0 (working)

But

ip addr (working)
ip addr dev eth0 (NOT working)

And

ip -s link show (working)
ip -s link show dev eth0 (working)

But

ip -s link (working)
ip -s link dev eth0 (NOT working)

Apparently, in order to understand why half of the commands work and
half do not, you have to somehow figure out that you're currently using
a command with an assumed verb, and that this makes a difference, in
some way, if you try to add words that follow the assumed verb.  Like,
"the verb is only added if the parser runs out of words" or something.

The inconsistency is quite confusing, especially if you haven't
scientifically attempted EVERY combination of words yet, to see which
combinations work and which do not, in order to analyze it for patterns
and infer the actual grammar rules.

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#180589 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

On Mon 01 May 2017 at 14:48:13 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 01:18:58PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > They do. Both expect a command. You can "show" something but you can't
> > "dev" it or, at least, I don't know how to.
> 
> The surprise comes from the fact that typically you can add "dev eth0"
> to the end of one working ip command, to get another working ip command
> which is restricted to that one interface -- but not always.
> 
> ip addr show (working)
> ip addr show dev eth0 (working)
> 
> But
> 
> ip addr (working)
> ip addr dev eth0 (NOT working)
> 
> And
> 
> ip -s link show (working)
> ip -s link show dev eth0 (working)
> 
> But
> 
> ip -s link (working)
> ip -s link dev eth0 (NOT working)
> 
> Apparently, in order to understand why half of the commands work and
> half do not, you have to somehow figure out that you're currently using
> a command with an assumed verb, and that this makes a difference, in
> some way, if you try to add words that follow the assumed verb.  Like,
> "the verb is only added if the parser runs out of words" or something.

I'd assumed that the presumption of "show [everything]" was there
because non-root users can do little else, and I don't think you can
omit/assume any other verb. cf mount.

> The inconsistency is quite confusing, especially if you haven't
> scientifically attempted EVERY combination of words yet, to see which
> combinations work and which do not, in order to analyze it for patterns
> and infer the actual grammar rules.

Sure, but who would prefer "ip link" to give you a load of its BNF
rather than assuming you meant show. "ip" does give you BNF, it's
true, but with such a flexible command, where to start. "ip nt"
already fills the screen; only 16 more object types to go.

Cheers,
David.

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#180478 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

On Wed 26 Apr 2017 at 07:17:11 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 04/25/2017 08:17 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >On 04/24/2017 04:12 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> >>On 24/04/17 22:58, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>>If there were user accessible registers with a running total of
> >>>uploaded/downloaded data since device power on would be almost ideal
> >>>granularity.
> >>
> >>Is ifconfig available on a console during installation?
> >
> >I can not check at the moment.
> 
> I attempted to check this morning using
>   debian-stretch-DI-rc3-i386-netinst.iso
> 
> I did an install using expert mode, not selecting any GUI.
> At several points during the install I did Alt-F2 to bring up a terminal to
> attempt running ifconfig.
> 
> "Command not found" was the uniform response.
> I booted the new install and attempted as root to run ifconfig.
> I again got "Command not found".
> That seemed odd.
> 
> Having previously done an install using the same ISO and having selected the
> MATE desktop, I repeated the above with the same error.
> 
> I have no problem running ifconfig under Squeeze (8.6.0).
> 
> Is it "bug" or "operator error"?

Let us see how a reasonably experienced user could have investigated the
cause. The package which provides ifconfig can be found from 'dpkg -S'
on a machine which has it. Or from the packages page on the Debian web
site,

The ISO can be opened up (I use mc) and the /pool/main directory entered.
Go to "n". See it? No? Not a bug, then.

-- 
Brian.

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#180484 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

On 04/26/2017 08:36 AM, Brian wrote:
> On Wed 26 Apr 2017 at 07:17:11 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> On 04/25/2017 08:17 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> On 04/24/2017 04:12 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
>>>> On 24/04/17 22:58, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>>> If there were user accessible registers with a running total of
>>>>> uploaded/downloaded data since device power on would be almost ideal
>>>>> granularity.
>>>>
>>>> Is ifconfig available on a console during installation?
>>>
>>> I can not check at the moment.
>>
>> I attempted to check this morning using
>>   debian-stretch-DI-rc3-i386-netinst.iso
>>
>> I did an install using expert mode, not selecting any GUI.
>> At several points during the install I did Alt-F2 to bring up a terminal to
>> attempt running ifconfig.
>>
>> "Command not found" was the uniform response.
>> I booted the new install and attempted as root to run ifconfig.
>> I again got "Command not found".
>> That seemed odd.
>>
>> Having previously done an install using the same ISO and having selected the
>> MATE desktop, I repeated the above with the same error.
>>
>> I have no problem running ifconfig under Squeeze (8.6.0).
>>
>> Is it "bug" or "operator error"?
>
> Let us see how a reasonably experienced user could have investigated the
> cause. The package which provides ifconfig can be found from 'dpkg -S'
> on a machine which has it. Or from the packages page on the Debian web
> site,
>
> The ISO can be opened up (I use mc) and the /pool/main directory entered.
> Go to "n". See it? No? Not a bug, then.


"ifconfig" has to be run as root.
ric@iam:~$ sudo ifconfig
[sudo] password for ric:
enp8s0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
         inet 192.168.0.3  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 192.168.0.255
         inet6 fe80::16da:e9ff:fe09:4706  prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x20<link>
         ether 14:da:e9:09:47:06  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
         RX packets 6879  bytes 3709031 (3.7 MB)
         RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
         TX packets 6276  bytes 596404 (596.4 KB)
         TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
         device interrupt 35  base 0x9000

lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING>  mtu 65536
         inet 127.0.0.1  netmask 255.0.0.0
         inet6 ::1  prefixlen 128  scopeid 0x10<host>
         loop  txqueuelen 1000  (Local Loopback)
         RX packets 88693  bytes 15355517 (15.3 MB)
         RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
         TX packets 88693  bytes 15355517 (15.3 MB)
         TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

ric@iam:~$




-- 
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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#180485 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:07:01AM -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
> "ifconfig" has to be run as root.
> ric@iam:~$ sudo ifconfig
> [sudo] password for ric:
> enp8s0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500

This is not correct, if you are just using it to view an interface rather
than to change the interface.

ifconfig lives in the /sbin directory, which is not in the default PATH
that user accounts get when they login.  It *is* in the PATH that you
get when you run su, or sudo.  That's why it works when you slap sudo
in front of it.

You could also simply run /sbin/ifconfig directly.  Or, you could change
your PATH variable to include the /sbin directory.  Either of these will
let you run ifconfig without root privileges.

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#180486 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

On 04/26/2017 10:17 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:07:01AM -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
>> "ifconfig" has to be run as root.
>> ric@iam:~$ sudo ifconfig
>> [sudo] password for ric:
>> enp8s0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
>
> This is not correct, if you are just using it to view an interface rather
> than to change the interface.
>
> ifconfig lives in the /sbin directory, which is not in the default PATH
> that user accounts get when they login.  It *is* in the PATH that you
> get when you run su, or sudo.  That's why it works when you slap sudo
> in front of it.
>
> You could also simply run /sbin/ifconfig directly.  Or, you could change
> your PATH variable to include the /sbin directory.  Either of these will
> let you run ifconfig without root privileges.

And that makes me incorrect how?? For a new user, who doesn't want to 
dink with $PATH, su or sudo will run ifconfig. It doesn't run, out of 
the box, as USER, which was the OP's original issue. Ric
.


-- 
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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#180489 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:25:10AM -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
> On 04/26/2017 10:17 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> >On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:07:01AM -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
> >>"ifconfig" has to be run as root.

> >This is not correct, if you are just using it to view an interface rather
> >than to change the interface.

> And that makes me incorrect how??

Because your statement is literally untrue.  You said a thing which does
not match reality.

wooledg:~$ id
uid=1000(wooledg) gid=1000(wooledg) groups=1000(wooledg),24(cdrom),25(floppy),27(sudo),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),108(netdev)
wooledg:~$ /sbin/ifconfig
eth0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
        inet 10.76.172.97  netmask 255.255.254.0  broadcast 10.76.173.255
        inet6 fe80::a28c:fdff:fec3:89e0  prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x20<link>
        ether a0:8c:fd:c3:89:e0  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
        RX packets 1575652  bytes 408905635 (389.9 MiB)
        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 708994  bytes 65901838 (62.8 MiB)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
        device interrupt 16  memory 0xd1000000-d1020000  

lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING>  mtu 65536
        inet 127.0.0.1  netmask 255.0.0.0
        inet6 ::1  prefixlen 128  scopeid 0x10<host>
        loop  txqueuelen 1  (Local Loopback)
        RX packets 1270503  bytes 260699031 (248.6 MiB)
        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 1270503  bytes 260699031 (248.6 MiB)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

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#180495 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

On 2017-04-26, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:25:10AM -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
>> On 04/26/2017 10:17 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>> >On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:07:01AM -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
>> >>"ifconfig" has to be run as root.
>
>> >This is not correct, if you are just using it to view an interface rather
>> >than to change the interface.
>
>> And that makes me incorrect how??
>
> Because your statement is literally untrue.  You said a thing which does
> not match reality.
>

It's an alternative fact, I think. I've always run ifconfig as a user using the
full path--/sbin/ifconfig (to get my ip address). 

But then there's ip, which *is* in my path

ip addr

I've seen people recommending ip as a superior alternative to ifconfig.

Anyway, I'm adding nothing of extra value to the thread, as usual.

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#180487 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:07:01AM -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
> On 04/26/2017 08:36 AM, Brian wrote:
> >On Wed 26 Apr 2017 at 07:17:11 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >
> >>On 04/25/2017 08:17 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>>On 04/24/2017 04:12 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> >>>>On 24/04/17 22:58, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>>>>If there were user accessible registers with a running total of
> >>>>>uploaded/downloaded data since device power on would be almost ideal
> >>>>>granularity.
> >>>>
> >>>>Is ifconfig available on a console during installation?
> >>>
> >>>I can not check at the moment.
> >>
> >>I attempted to check this morning using
> >>  debian-stretch-DI-rc3-i386-netinst.iso
> >>
> >>I did an install using expert mode, not selecting any GUI.
> >>At several points during the install I did Alt-F2 to bring up a terminal to
> >>attempt running ifconfig.
> >>
> >>"Command not found" was the uniform response.
> >>I booted the new install and attempted as root to run ifconfig.
> >>I again got "Command not found".
> >>That seemed odd.
> >>
> >>Having previously done an install using the same ISO and having selected the
> >>MATE desktop, I repeated the above with the same error.
> >>
> >>I have no problem running ifconfig under Squeeze (8.6.0).
> >>
> >>Is it "bug" or "operator error"?
> >
> >Let us see how a reasonably experienced user could have investigated the
> >cause. The package which provides ifconfig can be found from 'dpkg -S'
> >on a machine which has it. Or from the packages page on the Debian web
> >site,
> >
> >The ISO can be opened up (I use mc) and the /pool/main directory entered.
> >Go to "n". See it? No? Not a bug, then.
> 
> 
> "ifconfig" has to be run as root.

If you want to change something, yes. If not -- no.

Perhaps you're being misled by the fact that ifconfig usually lives in
/usr/bin, which usually isn't in a regular user's path, Therefore, just
invoking "ifconfig" as a regular user ends (usually) like so:

  tomas@rasputin:~$ ifconfig
  bash: ifconfig: command not found

That means your shell isn't finding the command. That *doesn't mean" you
are not allowed to invoke it (nor is that the message on the wrapping :)

Try with full path:

  tomas@rasputin:~$ /sbin/ifconfig
  eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr f0:de:f1:71:84:41  
            inet addr:10.10.69.65  Bcast:10.10.69.127  Mask:255.255.255.128
            [blah blah blah]

Now if you tried to change the IP address as a regular user...

  tomas@rasputin:~$ /sbin/ifconfig eth0 10.10.69.66
  SIOCSIFADDR: Operation not permitted
  SIOCSIFFLAGS: Operation not permitted

Ouch. My operating system scolded me. *That* was an authorization failure
(and not a "command not found"). "Read the message" [1]


Cheers

[1] Ed Krol "The Whole Internet User's Guide and Catalog"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_Internet_User%27s_Guide_and_Catalog

- - tomás
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#180479 — Re: BUG or OPERATOR error? - was [Re: Measuring aggregate internet useage?]

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Richard Owlett:
> 
> I did an install using expert mode, not selecting any GUI.
> At several points during the install I did Alt-F2 to bring up a terminal to
> attempt running ifconfig.
> 
> "Command not found" was the uniform response.
> I booted the new install and attempted as root to run ifconfig.
> I again got "Command not found".
> That seemed odd.

Did you check whether /sbin/ was in your $PATH at that time or did you
try to run it as /sbin/ifconfig? The problem may simply be that the
executable was not found in your $PATH although the executable was where
it should be.

(Apart from that I thought that ifconfig and friends were not really
necessary anymore since they were replaced by the "ip" tool. I think the
priority of this package was demoted from important to optional but I
cannot check at the moment. Maybe net-tools just isn't part of a
standard install anymore. If you want ifconfig, you need to install
net-tools.)

J.
-- 
Whenever I hear the word 'art' I reach for my visa card.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://archive.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

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