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lynx - not all sites readable

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  lynx - not all sites readable Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2016-09-14 22:20 +0200
    Re: lynx - not all sites readable Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2016-09-14 22:30 +0200
      Re: lynx - not all sites readable Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 01:20 +0200
        Re: lynx - not all sites readable Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2016-09-15 02:10 +0200
          Re: lynx - not all sites readable Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2016-09-15 08:40 +0200
            Re: lynx - not all sites readable Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2016-09-15 16:40 +0200
              Re: lynx - not all sites readable Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2016-09-15 16:50 +0200
                Re: lynx - not all sites readable Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2016-09-15 17:00 +0200
                Re: lynx - not all sites readable davidson@freevolt.org - 2016-09-16 02:10 +0200
    Re: lynx - not all sites readable Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-09-14 23:10 +0200
      Re: lynx - not all sites readable Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-09-14 23:50 +0200
        Re: lynx - not all sites readable David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 02:10 +0200
        Re: lynx - not all sites readable Andre Majorel <aym-naibed@teaser.fr> - 2016-09-15 10:50 +0200
          Re: lynx - not all sites readable Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2016-09-15 11:10 +0200
            Re: lynx - not all sites readable Andre Majorel <aym-naibed@teaser.fr> - 2016-09-15 12:20 +0200
            Re: lynx - not all sites readable David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 18:50 +0200
          Re: lynx - not all sites readable Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-09-15 12:00 +0200
          Re: lynx - not all sites readable Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2016-09-15 12:40 +0200
            Re: lynx - not all sites readable Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> - 2016-09-15 22:40 +0200
              Re: lynx - not all sites readable Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2016-09-16 11:40 +0200
              Re: lynx - not all sites readable Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2016-09-16 12:30 +0200
          Re: lynx - not all sites readable Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2016-09-15 15:50 +0200
            Re: lynx - not all sites readable Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> - 2016-09-15 17:30 +0200
              Links browser, was  lynx - not all sites readable Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2016-09-15 22:50 +0200
                Re: Links browser, was  lynx - not all sites readable Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> - 2016-09-16 00:10 +0200
                  Re: Links browser, was  lynx - not all sites readable Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2016-09-16 01:00 +0200
                    Re: Links browser, was  lynx - not all sites readable Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> - 2016-09-16 01:40 +0200
                      Re: Links browser, was  lynx - not all sites readable Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2016-09-16 02:00 +0200
                        Re: Links browser, was  lynx - not all sites readable Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> - 2016-09-16 02:50 +0200
                          Re: Links browser, was  lynx - not all sites readable Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2016-09-16 04:50 +0200
                            Re: Links browser, was  lynx - not all sites readable Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> - 2016-09-16 05:10 +0200
                              Re: Links browser, was lynx - not all sites readable Johann Spies <johann.spies@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 09:10 +0200
      Re: lynx - not all sites readable Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-09-15 14:20 +0200
        Re: lynx - not all sites readable Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2016-09-15 16:10 +0200
    Re: lynx - not all sites readable Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-09-14 23:10 +0200
    Re: lynx - not all sites readable emetib <chadbrabec@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 01:40 +0200
    Re: lynx - not all sites readable jeremy bentham <dnw@eskimo.com> - 2016-09-16 04:50 +0200

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#172174 — lynx - not all sites readable

Hi list,

can someone explain, why lynx sometimes forbid websites or supresses websites?

I needed a driver from Nvidia. As I had no X available, I tried download using 
lynx. 
However, I could open www.nvidia.com, but could not jump to the submenu alled 
"Treiber".  Then I tried to go to www.nvidia.de, but lynx told me, "This site 
is forbidden".

I found no logic for these issues. Tried http 1.0 and http 1.1, but there was 
no change. Does someone know more? IMO lynx is very usefull, when there is no 
X available!

Best regards

Hans

 

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#172176

Correction: 
> However, I could open www.nvidia.com, but could not jump to the submenu
> alled "Treiber".  Then I tried to go to www.nvidia.de, but lynx told me,
> "This site is forbidden".
> 
Must be: 
www.nvidia.de could be opened
www.nvidia.com was forbidden.

Sorry for that.

Hans

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#172184

On Wed 14 Sep 2016 at 22:26:08 +0200, Hans wrote:

> Correction: 
> > However, I could open www.nvidia.com, but could not jump to the submenu
> > alled "Treiber".  Then I tried to go to www.nvidia.de, but lynx told me,
> > "This site is forbidden".
> > 
> Must be: 
> www.nvidia.de could be opened
> www.nvidia.com was forbidden.
> 
> Sorry for that.

What do you get with

lynx -useragent "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/38.0 Iceweasel/38.8.0" www.nvidia.com ?

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#172189

Hi,
Forgive this not being in context.
If you are using the most current development edition of Lynx from April 
25  of this year and you are reaching sites that present a message like 
the following,
403 forbidden,
I suggest you try the following.
open the options menu and arrow down to the item that says
   "send user agent," with an exclamation mark because the change  cannot 
be saved  permanently.
unchecked this option do the temporary  save options  and you will get 
confirmation that the value has been accepted.
if you are still on the site in question, things may improve right 
away.  if not try the site again, with positive results..or such is 
my experience   almost all of the time when I reach the forbidden message.
I hope this is helpful,
Karen


On Thu, 15 Sep 2016, Brian wrote:

> On Wed 14 Sep 2016 at 22:26:08 +0200, Hans wrote:
>
>> Correction:
>>> However, I could open www.nvidia.com, but could not jump to the submenu
>>> alled "Treiber".  Then I tried to go to www.nvidia.de, but lynx told me,
>>> "This site is forbidden".
>>>
>> Must be:
>> www.nvidia.de could be opened
>> www.nvidia.com was forbidden.
>>
>> Sorry for that.
>
> What do you get with
>
> lynx -useragent "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/38.0 Iceweasel/38.8.0" www.nvidia.com ?
>
>

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#172197

Am Mittwoch, 14. September 2016, 20:06:40 CEST schrieb Karen Lewellen:
Hi Karen,

thanks for your hint! This is working. Deactivating sending the agent, let me 
read the site. However, still there is the problem, that I cannot step to 
submenus on the site. If one wants to see, what I mean:

go to www.nvidia.com, then try to go to the "Drivers" link. The colour here is 
purple of the link, and cannot be reached.

Hans

> Hi,
> Forgive this not being in context.
> If you are using the most current development edition of Lynx from April
> 25  of this year and you are reaching sites that present a message like
> the following,
> 403 forbidden,
> I suggest you try the following.
> open the options menu and arrow down to the item that says
>    "send user agent," with an exclamation mark because the change  cannot
> be saved  permanently.
> unchecked this option do the temporary  save options  and you will get
> confirmation that the value has been accepted.
> if you are still on the site in question, things may improve right
> away.  if not try the site again, with positive results..or such is
> my experience   almost all of the time when I reach the forbidden message.
> I hope this is helpful,
> Karen
> 

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#172224

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016, Hans wrote:

> Am Mittwoch, 14. September 2016, 20:06:40 CEST schrieb Karen Lewellen:
> Hi Karen,
>
> thanks for your hint! This is working. Deactivating sending the agent, let me
> read the site. However, still there is the problem, that I cannot step to
> submenus on the site. If one wants to see, what I mean:
>
> go to www.nvidia.com, then try to go to the "Drivers" link. The colour here is
> purple of the link, and cannot be reached.


Hi Hans,
Okay,  here is what I just did to reach that area.
Indeed you are correct, especially if you have the links are numbered 
option turned on, there is no clear way to reach the drivers area.
However lynx will display  and allow you to reach hidden links on a page.
Once you go through the steps providing the content on this site, choose 
the l key as in the letter l.
You are presented in order the links on the page, starting  with the 
visible ones.
Now,  if you use the search function, /
and enter the word hidden,  you are taken to the list of hidden links  on 
the page, including one for the drivers.
with links are numbered turned on, at least for me, it is number 114.
activate  the hidden link option for the drivers and you are taken to the 
page where they are  listed.
Does this make sense?
Kare



>
> Hans
>
>> Hi,
>> Forgive this not being in context.
>> If you are using the most current development edition of Lynx from April
>> 25  of this year and you are reaching sites that present a message like
>> the following,
>> 403 forbidden,
>> I suggest you try the following.
>> open the options menu and arrow down to the item that says
>>    "send user agent," with an exclamation mark because the change  cannot
>> be saved  permanently.
>> unchecked this option do the temporary  save options  and you will get
>> confirmation that the value has been accepted.
>> if you are still on the site in question, things may improve right
>> away.  if not try the site again, with positive results..or such is
>> my experience   almost all of the time when I reach the forbidden message.
>> I hope this is helpful,
>> Karen
>>
>
>

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#172225

Hi Karen,

I tried as you described. However, this showed me the word "Treiber" but your 
better hint was the one with the letter "l". That way I can see, these links 
are hidden and could navigate to it (it is letter 107 here).
Gowever, it does not explain, why lynx suppresses these. Ok, these are hidden, 
but accessible, so lynx should be able to acccess them.

Maybe it is still configurationable, I will try once more.

Thanks for your help, it makes things clearer.

Best

Hans 
 
> Hi Hans,
> Okay,  here is what I just did to reach that area.
> Indeed you are correct, especially if you have the links are numbered
> option turned on, there is no clear way to reach the drivers area.
> However lynx will display  and allow you to reach hidden links on a page.
> Once you go through the steps providing the content on this site, choose
> the l key as in the letter l.
> You are presented in order the links on the page, starting  with the
> visible ones.
> Now,  if you use the search function, /
> and enter the word hidden,  you are taken to the list of hidden links  on
> the page, including one for the drivers.
> with links are numbered turned on, at least for me, it is number 114.
> activate  the hidden link option for the drivers and you are taken to the
> page where they are  listed.
> Does this make sense?
> Kare
> 

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#172228

Hi Hans,
lynx no more suppresses site content, than a monitor  refuses to show 
material.
All lynx can do is give you what the site designer  has used in their 
code.
If the person drafting the site decides to use  techniques that do not 
respond to the keyboard, do not create active links  try  to do something 
loopy like a sort of dynamic element, it is not the fault of  lynx.
In fact you may wish to contact the people behind this site and inform 
them.  Especially since lynx is often used by those in their market.
Does this make sense?
Remember the references to the Internet as a super highway.
Lynx is just a car, if someone leaves pot holes  in the road, one does not 
blame the car for this   yes?
Happy to help,
Kare


On Thu, 15 Sep 2016, Hans wrote:

> Hi Karen,
>
> I tried as you described. However, this showed me the word "Treiber" but your
> better hint was the one with the letter "l". That way I can see, these links
> are hidden and could navigate to it (it is letter 107 here).
> Gowever, it does not explain, why lynx suppresses these. Ok, these are hidden,
> but accessible, so lynx should be able to acccess them.
>
> Maybe it is still configurationable, I will try once more.
>
> Thanks for your help, it makes things clearer.
>
> Best
>
> Hans
>
>> Hi Hans,
>> Okay,  here is what I just did to reach that area.
>> Indeed you are correct, especially if you have the links are numbered
>> option turned on, there is no clear way to reach the drivers area.
>> However lynx will display  and allow you to reach hidden links on a page.
>> Once you go through the steps providing the content on this site, choose
>> the l key as in the letter l.
>> You are presented in order the links on the page, starting  with the
>> visible ones.
>> Now,  if you use the search function, /
>> and enter the word hidden,  you are taken to the list of hidden links  on
>> the page, including one for the drivers.
>> with links are numbered turned on, at least for me, it is number 114.
>> activate  the hidden link option for the drivers and you are taken to the
>> page where they are  listed.
>> Does this make sense?
>> Kare
>>
>
>
>

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#172273

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016, Hans wrote:

> Hi Karen,
>
> I tried as you described. However, this showed me the word "Treiber"
> but your better hint was the one with the letter "l". That way I can
> see, these links are hidden and could navigate to it (it is letter
> 107 here).

In my lynx environment one must use shift + l (ie, capital 'L'), to
invoke this command, whose name is LIST.

And, no matter what the keymap might be, one can call it by typing ':'
followed by 'LIST'. (Just ':list', in lowercase, seems to work, too).

Also useful, in case you would like to search for a particular url, is
the command ADDRLIST, which is just like LIST except that it names all
links with their url, (thereby enabling searches for urls).

I have ADDRLIST mapped to capital 'A'. Enter ':keymap' to find the
shortcuts in your environment.

> Gowever, it does not explain, why lynx suppresses these. Ok, these
> are hidden,

It looks to me like you have concisely summed up an explanation
yourself.

> but accessible, so lynx should be able to acccess them.

And lynx can, when you tell it to.

> Maybe it is still configurationable, I will try once more.

If I understand you correctly, you would like hidden links to appear
on the rendered page.

While I hope you find a satisfactory solution, and I look forward to
reading about any you find, the question arises: Where in the rendered
page ought lynx to place these no-longer-hidden links?

As Karen points out, we cannot sensibly look to the intentions of the
author of the web page to give lynx any guidance here, since the web
page's author has explicitly told lynx to hide them!

Kind regards.

-- 
Wrote David Woolley, long ago:

> One final point to remember, is that most web site are not about
> communicating information; they are about selling, and these days
> the two are almost incompatible. (It's an interesting point that, in
> spite of the accessibility lobby's objections to PDF, PDF is where
> you will find the real information on most commercial sites, and the
> HTML on the sites is used where PDF would have been a better
> vehicle, because those parts have all form and no content!)

https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/lynx-dev/1999-08/msg00694.html

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#172178

One of these days, I'd like to put a website up and permit only text 
browsers like links and lynx and edbrowse full access and either block 
all of the graphical browsers or simply cause all of them to crash.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 17:03:22
> From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com>
> To: Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de>, debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: lynx - not all sites readable
> Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 21:03:51 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> 
> lynx isn't suppressing or forbidding anything!  The sites you visit are doing 
> all of that blocking and forbidding.
>
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2016, Hans wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 16:18:59
>> From: Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de>
>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>> Subject: lynx - not all sites readable
>> Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 20:19:31 +0000 (UTC)
>> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>> 
>> Hi list,
>> 
>> can someone explain, why lynx sometimes forbid websites or supresses 
>> websites?
>> 
>> I needed a driver from Nvidia. As I had no X available, I tried download 
>> using
>> lynx.
>> However, I could open www.nvidia.com, but could not jump to the submenu 
>> alled
>> "Treiber".  Then I tried to go to www.nvidia.de, but lynx told me, "This 
>> site
>> is forbidden".
>> 
>> I found no logic for these issues. Tried http 1.0 and http 1.1, but there 
>> was
>> no change. Does someone know more? IMO lynx is very usefull, when there is 
>> no
>> X available!
>> 
>> Best regards
>> 
>> Hans
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>

-- 

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#172182

On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 05:06:29PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> One of these days, I'd like to put a website up and permit only text
> browsers like links and lynx and edbrowse full access and either
> block all of the graphical browsers or simply cause all of them to
> crash.
> 
That is stupid, petty and pretty much a waste of time.

-H


-- 
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com

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#172190

On Wed 14 Sep 2016 at 17:46:31 (-0400), Henning Follmann wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 05:06:29PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > One of these days, I'd like to put a website up and permit only text
> > browsers like links and lynx and edbrowse full access and either
> > block all of the graphical browsers or simply cause all of them to
> > crash.
> > 
> That is stupid, petty and pretty much a waste of time.

Is there any reason to try to make replies to your post get CC'd to the OP
with Mail-Followup-To: Jude ..., Hans ..., debian-user@lists.debian.org ?

Cheers,
David.

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#172203

On 2016-09-14 17:46 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 05:06:29PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > One of these days, I'd like to put a website up and permit only text
> > browsers like links and lynx and edbrowse full access and either
> > block all of the graphical browsers or simply cause all of them to
> > crash.
>
> That is stupid, petty and pretty much a waste of time.

Yes, isn't it wonderful ?

To the OP : both sites (and the links under "Drivers") work with
Elinks as far as I can see.

I must say, it baffles me that Lynx continues to get more
mentions than Elinks, Links and W3m together even though they
render HTML at least as well and usually better that Lynx. Or
have things changed in recent years ?

-- 
André Majorel <http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
bugs.debian.org, a spambot's best friend.

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#172205

Hi Andre,
> To the OP : both sites (and the links under "Drivers") work with
> Elinks as far as I can see.
yes, elinks is working well and let me download the drivers. But that did not 
answer my question, why lynx ignored the links. 

> I must say, it baffles me that Lynx continues to get more
> mentions than Elinks, Links and W3m together even though they
> render HTML at least as well and usually better that Lynx. Or
> have things changed in recent years ?

Due to your suggestion, I tried elinks. For my personal taste I like the 
colour setting of lynx more. However, I see elinks is also great with another 
GUI philosophie. It reminds me of old packet radio programs in DOS like turbo 
packet, top, stop or  similar written in turbo pascal.

In the past I also tried links, which I also was not so emphazised of, as its 
very simple interface. However, this is a personal meaning, and I believe, 
that other people might love, what I dislike. :)

Thanks for the hint and happy hacking!

Hans  

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#172211

On 2016-09-15 11:08 +0200, Hans wrote:

> Due to your suggestion, I tried elinks. For my personal taste
> I like the colour setting of lynx more.

My Elinks have colour disabled so use the xterm's colours (in my
case, black text on white-ish background). I often end up doing
this as most terminal applications that use colour have a
positive contrast colour scheme (light on dark) which I find
tiring.

-- 
André Majorel <http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
lists.debian.org, an essential online resource for spammers.

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#172241

On Thu 15 Sep 2016 at 11:08:25 (+0200), Hans wrote:
> Hi Andre,
> > To the OP : both sites (and the links under "Drivers") work with
> > Elinks as far as I can see.
> yes, elinks is working well and let me download the drivers. But that did not 
> answer my question, why lynx ignored the links. 

Imagine a company puts a clickable map of the UK on their webpage and
asks you to click on the county you live in. They're labelled
Northamptonshire, Rutland, Norfolk etc.

A graphical browser might show you the links at the bottom of the
window as you move your mouse over the counties on the map. It might
say things like http://..../item=58 http://..../item=32 etc.
Lynx will list those addresses but it hasn't a clue how to
display the names of the counties, which might be in the text
of the page or even as bits in the image of the map.
And the names of the counties might be irrelevant anyway: those
links could correspond with regions, like East Midlands and
East Anglia, that aren't labelled on the page at all.

Lynx will list them separately (last) or merged with the rest
as requested ( -hiddenlinks=[option] ).

Cheers,
David.

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#172207

Links can be made to work accessibly; elinks cannot.  Last version of 
elinks I used I couldn't find any setting in it to number links.
w3m runs stuff a bit differently but can be blocked by javascript on 
sites.  The creator of the web is frustrated with the way it turned out 
and specifically for accessibility reasons.  He wasn't blind from birth 
either.

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016, Andre Majorel wrote:

> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 04:47:55
> From: Andre Majorel <aym-naibed@teaser.fr>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: lynx - not all sites readable
> Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 08:48:30 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> 
> On 2016-09-14 17:46 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 05:06:29PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>>> One of these days, I'd like to put a website up and permit only text
>>> browsers like links and lynx and edbrowse full access and either
>>> block all of the graphical browsers or simply cause all of them to
>>> crash.
>>
>> That is stupid, petty and pretty much a waste of time.
>
> Yes, isn't it wonderful ?
>
> To the OP : both sites (and the links under "Drivers") work with
> Elinks as far as I can see.
>
> I must say, it baffles me that Lynx continues to get more
> mentions than Elinks, Links and W3m together even though they
> render HTML at least as well and usually better that Lynx. Or
> have things changed in recent years ?
>
>

-- 

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#172213

On 2016-09-15 10:47:55 +0200, Andre Majorel wrote:
> I must say, it baffles me that Lynx continues to get more
> mentions than Elinks, Links and W3m together even though they
> render HTML at least as well and usually better that Lynx. Or
> have things changed in recent years ?

Links does not support UTF-8. The other ones do.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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#172263

>On 2016-09-15 12:29:50 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

>Links does not support UTF-8. The other ones do.

Where is the support for that conclusion?  It appears to be incorrect.[1]

[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/UTF-8#links_and_elinks

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#172291

On 2016-09-15 15:34:10 -0500, Dutch Ingraham wrote:
> >On 2016-09-15 12:29:50 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> 
> >Links does not support UTF-8. The other ones do.
> 
> Where is the support for that conclusion?  It appears to be incorrect.[1]
> 
> [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/UTF-8#links_and_elinks

OK, so if I understand correctly, it does not support UTF-8
by default, and one needs to explicitly enable it. That's
still a buggy way to support UTF-8. This should be automatic
based on locales, just like with other applications that run
in a terminal.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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