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Fwd: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

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  Fwd: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-12 01:00 +0200
    Re: Fwd: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> - 2016-09-12 01:20 +0200
    Re: Fwd: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-12 04:50 +0200
      Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-12 05:20 +0200
        Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-12 12:50 +0200
        Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-12 20:20 +0200
          Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-12 21:20 +0200
          Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 00:40 +0200
            Re: icedove: failed to connect server XXX@gmail.com "Neal P. Murphy" <neal.p.murphy@alum.wpi.edu> - 2016-09-13 01:10 +0200
            Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-13 15:00 +0200
              Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-13 16:50 +0200
                Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-13 19:10 +0200
                  Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-13 21:40 +0200
                    Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 22:10 +0200
                      Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-13 23:20 +0200
              Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-09-13 19:30 +0200
                Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 23:00 +0200
                  Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-14 03:00 +0200
                    Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-14 08:50 +0200
                      Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-14 11:10 +0200
                      Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-14 17:40 +0200
                        Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 19:00 +0200
                        Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-14 21:00 +0200
                          Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 21:10 +0200
                            Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-14 22:50 +0200
                          Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-14 23:20 +0200
                            Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 00:10 +0200
                              Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 01:40 +0200
                                Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 02:00 +0200
                                  Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 12:10 +0200
                                    Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 14:40 +0200
                                      Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 20:10 +0200
                                        Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 23:50 +0200
                              Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-15 02:20 +0200
                            Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to  run...) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-15 02:10 +0200
                              Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to  run...) Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-09-15 12:10 +0200
                                Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-15 12:50 +0200
                                  Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-09-15 13:00 +0200
                              Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to  run...) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 18:20 +0200
                                Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Tony Baldwin <tonybaldwin@gmx.com> - 2016-09-15 18:50 +0200
                              Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to  run...) Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-15 19:50 +0200
                                Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 20:00 +0200
                                  Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to  run...) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 20:30 +0200
                                    Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 22:50 +0200
                                Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to  run...) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 20:10 +0200
                                Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-15 21:30 +0200
                                  Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-16 03:10 +0200
                                    Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 03:40 +0200
                                    Re: internet connectivity from Comcast David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-16 04:40 +0200
                                      Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-09-16 11:10 +0200
                                    Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-16 05:00 +0200
                                    Re: Windows Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-09-16 10:40 +0200
                                      Re: Windows Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 13:10 +0200
                                      Re: Windows Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 13:40 +0200
                                        Re: Windows (really about cut&paste) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-16 16:20 +0200
                    Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 09:30 +0200
                    Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 09:30 +0200
          Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-13 22:00 +0200
        Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-13 21:20 +0200

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#172169

----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix Miata" <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 1:44:14 AM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

Alan McConnell composed on 2016-09-13 20:50 (UTC-0400):

> when my home Debian install is, for some reason, not functional.  I apologize for
> Zimbra's inadequacies, failure to produce '>' as my home mutt so nicely does.

> Just because one is unable to get whatever she is using to compose a reply 
> according to standards automatically doesn't excuse one who knows better from 
> conforming. Apologizing, particularly while continuing to not conform, does 
> not excuse. You are responsible for what you post, not your posting agent.
       I just put in the '>'s in the four lines above by hand.  I hope you are not
       going to ask me to continue to do so!  Especially since I've already explained
       that Zimbra(which is set up to deal with E-mail) is such a cruddy mess.


...
> But maybe someone
> can tell me why the installer can't look at the partitions and determine that there
> is some kind of OS already installed?  Why does it have to know about Windows 10 to
> behave sensibly?  "Curious minds . . . "
         I have just checked and when I sent this it was indented eight spaces or so.
         As is this present paragraph.  Do you(plural) see that it is indented?  or does
         your(plural) mail reader simply delete the spaces?  I ask, because I don't like
         to be chewed out when I'm doing my (present) level best to conform with 
         expectations.  Of course, it could be that Zimbra deletes the preliminary spaces
         before sending the mail out.  I could tell you tales about how Gmail mucks with
         what one has written before it sends the mail.


It does seem curious that the Debian installer would need knowledge of a 
particular Windows version in order to provide a boot menu selection for it, 
rather than simply having one that says "Windows", booting from whatever 
non-native/NTFS filesystem it happens to find containing anything resembling 
boot sector code.
         Yep.  I have been back to my Jessie in the meantime, and run os-prober.
         I didn't attempt to copy down on a piece of paper what it wrote; trust me
         that it was unenlightening garbage.

> Should you be game to try installing Jessie again, you might try a network 
> installation started via a Stretch installer. 
         Jeez!  I can't even run X11 on my present install(*) let alone get on
         line.

(*)  Does anyone here know how to create a .Xauthority file?  That is one of the
things the Jessie installer failed to provide me with.

Best wishes,

Alan

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#172170

On Wednesday 14 September 2016 16:34:31 Alan McConnell wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Felix Miata" <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 1:44:14 AM
> Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
>
> Alan McConnell composed on 2016-09-13 20:50 (UTC-0400):
> > when my home Debian install is, for some reason, not functional.  I
> > apologize for Zimbra's inadequacies, failure to produce '>' as my home
> > mutt so nicely does.
> >
> > Just because one is unable to get whatever she is using to compose a
> > reply according to standards automatically doesn't excuse one who knows
> > better from conforming. Apologizing, particularly while continuing to not
> > conform, does not excuse. You are responsible for what you post, not your
> > posting agent.
>
>        I just put in the '>'s in the four lines above by hand.  I hope you
> are not going to ask me to continue to do so!  Especially since I've
> already explained that Zimbra(which is set up to deal with E-mail) is such
> a cruddy mess.

It would be courteous.  It makes an enormous difference.

 ...
>
> > But maybe someone
> > can tell me why the installer can't look at the partitions and determine
> > that there is some kind of OS already installed?  Why does it have to
> > know about Windows 10 to behave sensibly?  "Curious minds . . . "
>
>          I have just checked and when I sent this it was indented eight
> spaces or so. As is this present paragraph.  Do you(plural) see that it is
> indented?  or does your(plural) mail reader simply delete the spaces?  I
> ask, because I don't like to be chewed out when I'm doing my (present)
> level best to conform with expectations.  Of course, it could be that
> Zimbra deletes the preliminary spaces before sending the mail out.  I could
> tell you tales about how Gmail mucks with what one has written before it
> sends the mail.
>
>
> It does seem curious that the Debian installer would need knowledge of a
> particular Windows version in order to provide a boot menu selection for
> it, rather than simply having one that says "Windows", booting from
> whatever non-native/NTFS filesystem it happens to find containing anything
> resembling boot sector code.
>          Yep.  I have been back to my Jessie in the meantime, and run
> os-prober. I didn't attempt to copy down on a piece of paper what it wrote;
> trust me that it was unenlightening garbage.
>
> > Should you be game to try installing Jessie again, you might try a
> > network installation started via a Stretch installer.
>
>          Jeez!  I can't even run X11 on my present install(*) let alone get
> on line.
>
> (*)  Does anyone here know how to create a .Xauthority file?  That is one
> of the things the Jessie installer failed to provide me with.

Why not try re-downloading your install media and starting again?  I take it 
you did check the integrity of your install media?  And did you edit your 
BIOS before starting?  Rhetorical question.  I know that you don't believe in 
answering questions or actually solving problems.  You have an unsatisfactory 
kludge and prefer to leave it so and just keep moaning.  Or I would ask 
EXACTLY what you have done and EXACTLY which model you have installed on.

Lots of people have got round the MS and Intel blocks and got Win10 and Jessie 
dual booting.  But is it a Skylake CPU?  Because that would add an added 
complication with the Jessie installer.

Either try to solve your problem or live with it and stop moaning.  
(Wiktionary suggests that in that meaning that is acceptable on both sides of 
the Atlantic).

Incidentally, I have just checked in my OED.  Printed version,  3rd Edition, 
published 1944, reprinted 1978.  Whinge has been in use in its present 
meaning since 1513 (they can cite a use in 1513), though it was only used 
that long ago in the north and in Scotland.  Whinger, the noun, cans only be 
cited in 1540.

But:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=etymology+and+usage+of+whinge&oq=etymology+and+usage+of+whinge&aqs=chrome..69i57.9456j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Note the first hit.  Merriam Webster says that it has been in use since the 
12th Century.  

It hasn't been introduced here, it has died out there.  It has been in 
continuous use since the 16th Century or earlier.

But I don't suppose you listened to what people in Egham were saying in 1967 
any more than you listen to us now.

Lisi

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#172172

On Wed 14 Sep 2016 at 11:34:31 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:

> From: "Felix Miata" <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
> 
> It does seem curious that the Debian installer would need knowledge of a 
> particular Windows version in order to provide a boot menu selection for it, 
> rather than simply having one that says "Windows", booting from whatever 
> non-native/NTFS filesystem it happens to find containing anything resembling 
> boot sector code.

This following quotes beginning with > are from Alan McConnell.

>          Yep.  I have been back to my Jessie in the meantime, and run os-prober.
>          I didn't attempt to copy down on a piece of paper what it wrote; trust me
>          that it was unenlightening garbage.

What is "unenlightening" to you may not be unenlightening to others;
trust me on that. "garbage" is *your* value judgement; nobody can
dispute it (except in the abstract) but it unlikely to be in that
category. But you did get an output; you have no idea how interesting
that is.

We Debian users yearn for the day when copy 'n paste and USB sticks are
invented. It will make things so much easier to move information (which
is severely lacking from you in this thread) about.

> > Should you be game to try installing Jessie again, you might try a network 
> > installation started via a Stretch installer. 
>          Jeez!  I can't even run X11 on my present install(*) let alone get on
>          line.

You claimed to be unable to install libreoffice when installing GNOME:

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/04/msg00247.html

    I decided to bite the bullet/go with the flow, and
    install GNOME, the whole thing.  Which I did, and
    it took just short of an hour.  For some reason,
    Libreoffice was not installed.

This is completely impossible using 'apt-get install gnome', of course.
Not unless the Debian packaging system has a gaping hole in it. But it
happened to you (and nobody else). A mishapprension on your part?

Now it is X; X works fine for everyone; a mishapprension on your part? At
another time it was cups; a mishapprension on your part? Where to next?
How many more mishapprensions devoid of usable data are there going to
be?.

> (*)  Does anyone here know how to create a .Xauthority file?  That is one of the
> things the Jessie installer failed to provide me with.

You've asked this five months ago:

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/04/msg00278.html

    Does anyone know how to create an .Xauthority with xauth?
    I find the man page of xauth pretty impenetrable.

You are probably asking the wrong question.

-- 
Brian.

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#172173

On Wednesday 14 September 2016 19:51:50 Brian wrote:
> You are probably asking the wrong question.

Oh, no, Brian.  He is asking the right question by definition.  Alan is asking 
it, it is therefore right.

We are providing the wrong answers.  And to make matters worse we are doing so 
in Old English words that poor Alan does not know, so we must have invented 
them.

My Tutor came from Bedford College (previous job).  She would have got on well 
with Alan.

Lisi

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#172177

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisi Reisz" <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 2:05:47 PM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

On Wednesday 14 September 2016 19:51:50 Brian wrote:
> You are probably asking the wrong question.

Oh, no, Brian.  He is asking the right question by definition.  Alan is asking 
it, it is therefore right.
       Lisi, is this kind of post helpful?  Is that a question that you even ask
       yourself?  For some reason you've taken a dislike to me, at a distance of
       5000 miles.  That's OK, no skin off my nose.  But you are starting to irritate
       other members of this E-list.  So please: make sure from now on that your
       posts contain information, and not just name-calling.  We'd all appreciate it.

TIA,

Alan

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#172180

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian" <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 1:51:50 PM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

On Wed 14 Sep 2016 at 11:34:31 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:

> From: "Felix Miata" <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
> 
> It does seem curious that the Debian installer would need knowledge of a 
> particular Windows version in order to provide a boot menu selection for it, 
> rather than simply having one that says "Windows", booting from whatever 
> non-native/NTFS filesystem it happens to find containing anything resembling 
> boot sector code.

This following quotes beginning with > are from Alan McConnell.

>          Yep.  I have been back to my Jessie in the meantime, and run os-prober.
>          I didn't attempt to copy down on a piece of paper what it wrote; trust me
>          that it was unenlightening garbage.
       Ah. That's good.  Your E-mail reader seems to respect my indentations.  Others
       don't, alas.  Do you perchance use mutt?

What is "unenlightening" to you may not be unenlightening to others;
trust me on that. "garbage" is *your* value judgement; 
         No, I'm going to insist on my "garbage" denotation.  Since I have a very
         acceptable way of going from one OS to another, your input on what os-prober
         returned to me is of little interest to me, and much less to the other members
         of this E-list, I'm sure.

         But I'd like to defend what Lisi calls a "kludge".  Here is what I do: when I
         boot, or reboot my machine, if I do nothing I get my Jessie, which is what I
         want.  If I want to go to Windoze, I gotta hold the F12, as Felix Mieta taught
         me several moons ago, and then I get put into a nice menu: Choose the boot
         manager.  I use my Arrow keys to get to Windows boot manager, and voila! in a
         few seconds I'm in Windoze.  Not so difficult after all.  And I would think that
         an expert programmer, which I used to be but am not any more, could put those
         few simple steps into a "first of all" window.  Maybe a simple grub file?


We Debian users yearn for the day when copy 'n paste and USB sticks are
invented. It will make things so much easier to move information (which
is severely lacking from you in this thread) about.
         Yes.  If I could move stuff from my Windows OS to my Jessie, and vice
         versa, that would be a big help.  Any suggestions from anyone about that?
         Linux used to be able to go into MS-DOS and put files there and get files
         out of there.  Has anyone any information on that?

> > Should you be game to try installing Jessie again, you might try a network 
> > installation started via a Stretch installer. 
>          Jeez!  I can't even run X11 on my present install(*) let alone get on
>          line.
       That situation has changed as of just an hour ago.  I did a reinstall of
       xorg(or maybe it was x11), and my 'startx', from my old wheezy(fortunately
       saved) worked, after I'd done a few tweeks to my .xinitrc.  I tried my
       old beloved sawfish(now wmctl) but that didn't work as well as metacity.

> (*)  Does anyone here know how to create a .Xauthority file?  That is one of the
> things the Jessie installer failed to provide me with.

You've asked this five months ago:
        I did indeed.  That was before my old machine gave up the ghost.  I am 
        impressed, Brian, that you keep such careful track of me.

My final problem is: how to get my Jessie to get on line.  I don't think this is
anything anyone here can help me with, since I live in a retirement community
which has a huge contract with Comcast.  I called a tech person here, and he gave me
a username and password which got me, and keeps me, online . . . but only for the
Windoze side.  I gotta do some exploring to see if I can make this work with Jessie.


>  You are probably asking the wrong question.
        <G>

Best wishes to all, even to Lisi!

Alan

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#172183

On Wed 14 Sep 2016 at 17:11:26 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:

Alan McConnell's responses are indented and begin with >.

> From: "Brian" <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>

Brian's resonses are not indented.

> 
> >          Yep.  I have been back to my Jessie in the meantime, and run os-prober.
> >          I didn't attempt to copy down on a piece of paper what it wrote; trust me
> >          that it was unenlightening garbage.
>        Ah. That's good.  Your E-mail reader seems to respect my indentations.  Others
>        don't, alas.  Do you perchance use mutt?

Perchance.
 
> What is "unenlightening" to you may not be unenlightening to others;
> trust me on that. "garbage" is *your* value judgement; 
>          No, I'm going to insist on my "garbage" denotation.  Since I have a very
>          acceptable way of going from one OS to another, your input on what os-prober
>          returned to me is of little interest to me, and much less to the other members
>          of this E-list, I'm sure.

You can insist on what you want. It is easy when only you know what the
the output is.

> 
>          But I'd like to defend what Lisi calls a "kludge".  Here is what I do: when I
>          boot, or reboot my machine, if I do nothing I get my Jessie, which is what I
>          want.  If I want to go to Windoze, I gotta hold the F12, as Felix Mieta taught
>          me several moons ago, and then I get put into a nice menu: Choose the boot
>          manager.  I use my Arrow keys to get to Windows boot manager, and voila! in a
>          few seconds I'm in Windoze.  Not so difficult after all.  And I would think that
>          an expert programmer, which I used to be but am not any more, could put those
>          few simple steps into a "first of all" window.  Maybe a simple grub file?

That's fine; it does what you want and will serve you well. Stick with
it. but forget about involving GRUB.
 
> We Debian users yearn for the day when copy 'n paste and USB sticks are
> invented. It will make things so much easier to move information (which
> is severely lacking from you in this thread) about.
>          Yes.  If I could move stuff from my Windows OS to my Jessie, and vice
>          versa, that would be a big help.  Any suggestions from anyone about that?
>          Linux used to be able to go into MS-DOS and put files there and get files
>          out of there.  Has anyone any information on that?

I rather think there is an answer in the response you quoted.
 
> > > Should you be game to try installing Jessie again, you might try a network 
> > > installation started via a Stretch installer. 
> >          Jeez!  I can't even run X11 on my present install(*) let alone get on
> >          line.
>        That situation has changed as of just an hour ago.  I did a reinstall of
>        xorg(or maybe it was x11), and my 'startx', from my old wheezy(fortunately
>        saved) worked, after I'd done a few tweeks to my .xinitrc.  I tried my
>        old beloved sawfish(now wmctl) but that didn't work as well as metacity.

Good. (Your technique is extraordinary but comments on it are outside
the scope of this thread).

> > (*)  Does anyone here know how to create a .Xauthority file?  That is one of the
> > things the Jessie installer failed to provide me with.
> 
> You've asked this five months ago:
>         I did indeed.  That was before my old machine gave up the ghost.  I am 
>         impressed, Brian, that you keep such careful track of me.

I have a reasonably good memory. It was GNOME not installing libreoffice
which triggered the connections. So unusual. You never responded to that
either at the time it was pointed out.

> My final problem is: how to get my Jessie to get on line.  I don't think this is
> anything anyone here can help me with, since I live in a retirement community
> which has a huge contract with Comcast.  I called a tech person here, and he gave me
> a username and password which got me, and keeps me, online . . . but only for the
> Windoze side.  I gotta do some exploring to see if I can make this work with Jessie.

I'm confident you are resourceful and will manage.

-- 
Brian.

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#172186

On Wednesday 14 September 2016 23:09:12 Brian wrote:
> >        Ah. That's good.  Your E-mail reader seems to respect my
> > indentations.  Others don't, alas.  Do you perchance use mutt?

Indentations count as formatting.  Plain text is supposed not to preserve 
formatting.

Lisi

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#172187

On Thu 15 Sep 2016 at 00:33:09 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Wednesday 14 September 2016 23:09:12 Brian wrote:
> > >        Ah. That's good.  Your E-mail reader seems to respect my
> > > indentations.  Others don't, alas.  Do you perchance use mutt?
> 
> Indentations count as formatting.  Plain text is supposed not to preserve 
> formatting.

I think you can be excused from thinking I wrote that but I didn't.
Nothing for anyone to get bothered about as far as I am concerned.

-- 
Brian.

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#172210

On Thursday 15 September 2016 00:50:25 Brian wrote:
> On Thu 15 Sep 2016 at 00:33:09 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Wednesday 14 September 2016 23:09:12 Brian wrote:
> > > >        Ah. That's good.  Your E-mail reader seems to respect my
> > > > indentations.  Others don't, alas.  Do you perchance use mutt?
> >
> > Indentations count as formatting.  Plain text is supposed not to preserve
> > formatting.
>
> I think you can be excused from thinking I wrote that but I didn't.
> Nothing for anyone to get bothered about as far as I am concerned.

I'm sorry.  That was carelessness.  It is a "fault" in my email client that it 
tends to get the attributions of emails wrong when it is asked in advance to 
trim for a reply. I do know that I should check, and not doing so is plain 
carelessness.  

For the record, it was *Alan* whose indentations my (and many other) email 
clients *correctly* did not preserve.  It has been instructed to use plain 
text.  (Another instruction it doesn't always obey, but therein hangs another 
story.)

Are you deliberately remaining uncontactable off list?  You must be sending 
from one email address and receiving to another, since the email address  
<ad44@cityscape.co.uk> still doesn't work, and you are getting list emails.  
If you are prepared to be contacted off-line, but don't want to publish the 
address here, may I have it?  You have my email address!!

Lisi

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#172220

On Thu 15 Sep 2016 at 11:01:12 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> Are you deliberately remaining uncontactable off list?  You must be sending 

I am not uncontactable.

> from one email address and receiving to another, since the email address  
> <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> still doesn't work, and you are getting list emails.

The system delivering the mail (which I do not control) definitely works
because you got a helpful mail by return. That mail did not come from my
mail system.

As a matter of interest: suppose you had received no rejection message;
what would you think? Working from those thoughts: suppose you never
received a reply from me? What would go through you mind?

> If you are prepared to be contacted off-line, but don't want to publish the 
> address here, may I have it?  You have my email address!!

The address *is* published here. Please see the final two paragraphs of

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00997.html

-- 
Brian.

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#172254

On Thursday 15 September 2016 13:38:49 Brian wrote:
> On Thu 15 Sep 2016 at 11:01:12 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > Are you deliberately remaining uncontactable off list?  You must be
> > sending
>
> I am not uncontactable.
>
> > from one email address and receiving to another, since the email address
> > <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> still doesn't work, and you are getting list
> > emails.
>
> The system delivering the mail (which I do not control) definitely works
> because you got a helpful mail by return. That mail did not come from my
> mail system.

No, the emails I tried to send off-list got rejection messages, not helpful 
replies.
>
> As a matter of interest: suppose you had received no rejection message;
> what would you think? 

I would assume that you had had the email and ignored it.

> Working from those thoughts: suppose you never 
> received a reply from me? What would go through you mind?

If you were continuing to reply to the list I would assume that I was being 
ignored for some reason.  If you were not posting to the list I would worry 
fruitlessly about you and miss your contribution.
>
> > If you are prepared to be contacted off-line, but don't want to publish
> > the address here, may I have it?  You have my email address!!
>
> The address *is* published here. Please see the final two paragraphs of
>
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00997.html

Yes, I am sorry.  I did look.  But I am partially sighted, headers are 
difficult, I was in a hurry and I knew that you had been having a problem 
with ?Demon? and that address that you were wondering how to resolve.

I will copy and paste your headers into a word processor so that I can edit 
them into legibility and go from there.

Lisi

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#172267

On Thu 15 Sep 2016 at 19:07:46 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Thursday 15 September 2016 13:38:49 Brian wrote:
> > On Thu 15 Sep 2016 at 11:01:12 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > Are you deliberately remaining uncontactable off list?  You must be
> > > sending
> >
> > I am not uncontactable.
> >
> > > from one email address and receiving to another, since the email address
> > > <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> still doesn't work, and you are getting list
> > > emails.
> >
> > The system delivering the mail (which I do not control) definitely works
> > because you got a helpful mail by return. That mail did not come from my
> > mail system.
> 
> No, the emails I tried to send off-list got rejection messages, not helpful 
> replies.

What if Royal Mail told you they were unable to deliver a letter you had
put into one of their nice red pillar boxes? Wouldn't that be useful
information you could take action on? If you sent a letter to 123 M7 9QD
in the UK and it wasn't returned you would surely assume Royal Mail had
delivered it? I'd dispute that bounce messages are not useful. Problems
very often arise when mail has been delivered but there is no feedback.

> > As a matter of interest: suppose you had received no rejection message;
> > what would you think? 
> 
> I would assume that you had had the email and ignored it.

Why should *I* have the mail? If the receiving system doesn't pass it on
to me I'll never see it. The best you can say is that the receiving
system accepted the mail via SMTP. What happens after that has nothing
to do with SMTP. Another system accepts the mail from the SMTP
transaction and deals with it. Knowledge of what happens there could be
non-existent unless the accepting system chooses to tell you.

The mail is accepted. What the receving system does with it is up to it.
It could put the mail through a spam detection system which deletes the
mail or not let a user download it without paying. None of this process
is under the control of the recipient; she gets what the receiving
system decides she gets. The sending system also has no say in the
matter

Think of all the mails which come through your letter-box; Royal Mail
(SMTP) has done its job. The sender has had the letter delivered; they
get no bounce message so think the recipient has receved it. But,
unbeknownst to you, or Royal Mail, someone in the house filters out some
of the mail. You may never know this happens.

Acceptance of mail by the mail system does not imply or guarantee the
recipient receives a mail. It depends on what happens after the
acceptance (which is  not controlled by the recipient or the sending
system).

> > Working from those thoughts: suppose you never 
> > received a reply from me? What would go through you mind?
> 
> If you were continuing to reply to the list I would assume that I was being 
> ignored for some reason.  If you were not posting to the list I would worry 
> fruitlessly about you and miss your contribution.

My mail to the list and the mail entering my inbox are completely
independent. Think about it; there is no connection between the two
processes. However, even though the assumption is unsustainable, I
understand what you are saying. It is natural to think that sending
something means it gets there. After all, in 9,999 cases out of 10,000
it does.

> > > If you are prepared to be contacted off-line, but don't want to publish
> > > the address here, may I have it?  You have my email address!!
> >
> > The address *is* published here. Please see the final two paragraphs of
> >
> >   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00997.html
> 
> Yes, I am sorry.  I did look.  But I am partially sighted, headers are 
> difficult, I was in a hurry and I knew that you had been having a problem 
> with ?Demon? and that address that you were wondering how to resolve.

Demon have decided that mail provision has been free all these years.
"Free" means it is not subject to contact and consequently can be moved
elsewhere and made accessible for a fee. I am too tightfisted to pay for
"elsewhere".

> I will copy and paste your headers into a word processor so that I can edit 
> them into legibility and go from there.

You'll get there. Say if you don't.

-- 
Brian.

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#172191

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian" <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 5:09:12 PM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

> What is "unenlightening" to you may not be unenlightening to others;
> trust me on that. "garbage" is *your* value judgement; 
>          No, I'm going to insist on my "garbage" denotation.  Since I have a very
>          acceptable way of going from one OS to another, your input on what os-prober
>          returned to me is of little interest to me, and much less to the other members
>          of this E-list, I'm sure.

You can insist on what you want. It is easy when only you know what the
the output is.
          <G>  I've seen error messages before.




>          an expert programmer, which I used to be but am not any more, could put those
>          few simple steps into a "first of all" window.  Maybe a simple grub file?

That's fine; it does what you want and will serve you well. Stick with
it. but forget about involving GRUB.
          But a flow chart to do it would be easy:
  Read input
     if input=L then
         do nothing
     else if input=W, then
         change boot method to Windows Boot Manager
     else
         return to read input
     fi
                Something like that could be easily implemented, methinks.  But I'm
                not going to do it.




>          Yes.  If I could move stuff from my Windows OS to my Jessie, and vice
>          versa, that would be a big help.  Any suggestions from anyone about that?
>          Linux used to be able to go into MS-DOS and put files there and get files
>          out of there.  Has anyone any information on that?

I rather think there is an answer in the response you quoted.
         I didn't see it.  Remind me.




>        xorg(or maybe it was x11), and my 'startx', from my old wheezy(fortunately
>        saved) worked, after I'd done a few tweeks to my .xinitrc.  I tried my
>        old beloved sawfish(now wmctl) but that didn't work as well as metacity.

Good. (Your technique is extraordinary but comments on it are outside
the scope of this thread).
         Thank you!  I would rather start off with a X-less tty1 and then enter X
         with my own choice of what to run, how the background looks, etc.  startx,
         with a good .xinit, does all I want.  Simplicity, dear my lord,
         makes computing yare.   <G>  



> a username and password which got me, and keeps me, online . . . but only for the
> Windoze side.  I gotta do some exploring to see if I can make this work with Jessie.

I'm confident you are resourceful and will manage.
           <LOL>  I trust that your confidence in me is not misplaced.

Alan

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#172188 — Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...)

Alan McConnell composed on 2016-09-14 17:11 (UTC-0400):

> My final problem is: how to get my Jessie to get on line.  I don't think this is
> anything anyone here can help me with, since I live in a retirement community
> which has a huge contract with Comcast.

Is it a cable account, or is it a DSL account? Appropriate help from here, 
should you choose to accept any, depends on your answer.

> I called a tech person here, and he gave me
> a username and password which got me, and keeps me, online . . . but only for the
> Windoze side.  I gotta do some exploring to see if I can make this work with Jessie.

Luckily[1], I'm not a Comcast subscriber, so I cannot speak to this from 
experience. Maybe something following can spur you into finding a path to a 
solution.

ISTR that some cablecos provide both a router (aka firewall and possibly a 
switch) and a modem in the same box, like DSL providers typically do. DSL 
providers normally require a login process with username and password. OTOH, 
cable providers typically do not require login, depending instead on the 
unique MAC address of the cable modem. It sounds to me like you either do not 
have an internet router between your PC and the modem, or have a combination 
modem/router/firewall, and so needs Jessie to somehow login similarly to how 
the tech enabled you to connect in Windows. Had you a separate internet 
router that you own, then the router could perform login duty, and internet 
connectivity would not depend on which OS you booted.

[1]
http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/06/comcast-customer-satisfaction-rating-plummets-again/
http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/the-top-5-worst-corporate-citizens-in-the-u-s.html/?a=viewall
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#172209 — Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...)

I'm on comcast and what we have here is a cable account with a 
combination router modem box.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016, Felix Miata wrote:

> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 20:05:50
> From: Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to
>     run...)
> Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 00:06:14 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> 
> Alan McConnell composed on 2016-09-14 17:11 (UTC-0400):
>
>> My final problem is: how to get my Jessie to get on line.  I don't think 
>> this is
>> anything anyone here can help me with, since I live in a retirement 
>> community
>> which has a huge contract with Comcast.
>
> Is it a cable account, or is it a DSL account? Appropriate help from here, 
> should you choose to accept any, depends on your answer.
>
>> I called a tech person here, and he gave me
>> a username and password which got me, and keeps me, online . . . but only 
>> for the
>> Windoze side.  I gotta do some exploring to see if I can make this work 
>> with Jessie.
>
> Luckily[1], I'm not a Comcast subscriber, so I cannot speak to this from 
> experience. Maybe something following can spur you into finding a path to a 
> solution.
>
> ISTR that some cablecos provide both a router (aka firewall and possibly a 
> switch) and a modem in the same box, like DSL providers typically do. DSL 
> providers normally require a login process with username and password. OTOH, 
> cable providers typically do not require login, depending instead on the 
> unique MAC address of the cable modem. It sounds to me like you either do not 
> have an internet router between your PC and the modem, or have a combination 
> modem/router/firewall, and so needs Jessie to somehow login similarly to how 
> the tech enabled you to connect in Windows. Had you a separate internet 
> router that you own, then the router could perform login duty, and internet 
> connectivity would not depend on which OS you booted.
>
> [1]
> http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/06/comcast-customer-satisfaction-rating-plummets-again/
> http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/the-top-5-worst-corporate-citizens-in-the-u-s.html/?a=viewall
>

-- 

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#172215 — Re: internet connectivity from Comcast

Jude DaShiell composed on 2016-09-15 06:06 (UTC-0400):

> I'm on comcast and what we have here is a cable account with a
> combination router modem box.

Who owns the box?

Does connectivity on the account involve use of a login and password?
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#172216 — Re: internet connectivity from Comcast

comcast owns the box and connectivity requires a network name and 
password to be in a computer's wifi settings before you can connect. 
Comcast puts two possible connections on each box.  One of them is for 
the account holder and the other connection is for public use if comcast 
users have an email address and a different password to log into their 
comcast accounts.

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016, Felix Miata wrote:

> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 06:48:47
> From: Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: internet connectivity from Comcast
> Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 10:49:25 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> 
> Jude DaShiell composed on 2016-09-15 06:06 (UTC-0400):
>
>> I'm on comcast and what we have here is a cable account with a
>> combination router modem box.
>
> Who owns the box?
>
> Does connectivity on the account involve use of a login and password?
>

-- 

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#172240 — Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...)

On Wed 14 Sep 2016 at 20:05:50 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> Alan McConnell composed on 2016-09-14 17:11 (UTC-0400):
> 
> >My final problem is: how to get my Jessie to get on line.  I don't think this is
> >anything anyone here can help me with, since I live in a retirement community
> >which has a huge contract with Comcast.
> 
> Is it a cable account, or is it a DSL account? Appropriate help from
> here, should you choose to accept any, depends on your answer.
> 
> >I called a tech person here, and he gave me
> >a username and password which got me, and keeps me, online . . . but only for the
> >Windoze side.  I gotta do some exploring to see if I can make this work with Jessie.
> 
> Luckily[1], I'm not a Comcast subscriber, so I cannot speak to this
> from experience. Maybe something following can spur you into finding
> a path to a solution.
> 
> ISTR that some cablecos provide both a router (aka firewall and
> possibly a switch) and a modem in the same box, like DSL providers
> typically do. DSL providers normally require a login process with
> username and password. OTOH, cable providers typically do not
> require login, depending instead on the unique MAC address of the
> cable modem.

I always assumed that cable companies relied on the fact that you're
at the other "end" of a piece of wire that comes into their building.
When lightning takes out my modem, I shall just buy another of a
type approved by Cox. They'll discover the MAC when I connect it.
(I hate combined modem/routers.)

Obviously some others take a belt and braces approach, perhaps
because a multiple service is being supplied to a ?building(s) over
which they feel they have less control. We get the typical residential
service of one wire/service/bill. If you want to steal the service,
you need to get climbing.

Cheers,
David.

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#172242 — Re: internet connectivity from Comcast

On 09/15/2016 12:17 PM, David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 14 Sep 2016 at 20:05:50 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
>> Alan McConnell composed on 2016-09-14 17:11 (UTC-0400):
>>
>>> My final problem is: how to get my Jessie to get on line.  I don't think this is
>>> anything anyone here can help me with, since I live in a retirement community
>>> which has a huge contract with Comcast.
>>
>> Is it a cable account, or is it a DSL account? Appropriate help from
>> here, should you choose to accept any, depends on your answer.
>>
>>> I called a tech person here, and he gave me
>>> a username and password which got me, and keeps me, online . . . but only for the
>>> Windoze side.  I gotta do some exploring to see if I can make this work with Jessie.
>>
>> Luckily[1], I'm not a Comcast subscriber, so I cannot speak to this
>> from experience. Maybe something following can spur you into finding
>> a path to a solution.
>>
>> ISTR that some cablecos provide both a router (aka firewall and
>> possibly a switch) and a modem in the same box, like DSL providers
>> typically do. DSL providers normally require a login process with
>> username and password. OTOH, cable providers typically do not
>> require login, depending instead on the unique MAC address of the
>> cable modem.
>
> I always assumed that cable companies relied on the fact that you're
> at the other "end" of a piece of wire that comes into their building.
> When lightning takes out my modem, I shall just buy another of a
> type approved by Cox. They'll discover the MAC when I connect it.
> (I hate combined modem/routers.)
>
> Obviously some others take a belt and braces approach, perhaps
> because a multiple service is being supplied to a ?building(s) over
> which they feel they have less control. We get the typical residential
> service of one wire/service/bill. If you want to steal the service,
> you need to get climbing.

I'm using comcast/xfinity cable internet, with no issues and have for 
some years
I have always just been able to boot a debian system while connected to 
their modem and id automagically detects and configures the connection, 
no problem. If you do any torrenting you've got to use an encrypted 
pipe, or comcast will throttle you, but otherwise no problems.

./tony


-- 
http://tonybaldwin.me
all tony, all the time

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