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Groups > linux.debian.user > #171052 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-08-13 05:00 +0200 |
| Last post | 2016-09-08 16:20 +0200 |
| Articles | 14 on this page of 114 — 28 participants |
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Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-08-13 05:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-08-13 06:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2016-08-15 14:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> - 2016-08-16 18:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-08-16 22:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2016-08-17 04:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-08-17 05:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2016-08-17 13:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2016-08-15 16:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-08-17 08:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-17 20:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> - 2016-08-25 20:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 11:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-08-30 15:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 16:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-08-30 16:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 16:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 20:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-08-30 17:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2016-08-30 17:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 18:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 18:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-08-30 23:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 19:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 20:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 21:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 23:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 23:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 01:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 00:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 01:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 02:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 22:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-01 12:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2016-08-31 16:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 16:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 17:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2016-08-31 17:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-08-31 20:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-01 22:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-08-31 18:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 18:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 18:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-08-31 18:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 20:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-08-31 20:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 23:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 21:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-01 20:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 21:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-30 18:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 20:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-30 21:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 23:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-08-30 21:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 21:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-30 22:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-30 22:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2016-08-30 17:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 18:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 20:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 20:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 20:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-30 21:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 22:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 22:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 20:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 08:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-31 09:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 11:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 14:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 10:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 21:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 11:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-09-02 15:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-09-02 18:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 15:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-08-31 15:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 20:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-09-01 18:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 20:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-09-01 21:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-08-31 16:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 10:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-01 16:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-31 20:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Amir H. Firouzian" <firouziyan@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 22:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Ralph Katz <ralph.katz@rcn.com> - 2016-08-17 16:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2016-08-17 16:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Ralph Katz <ralph.katz@rcn.com> - 2016-08-17 18:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2016-08-17 19:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2016-08-17 20:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-08-17 21:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-08-17 21:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-01 17:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> - 2016-09-01 22:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 07:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-03 15:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-02 11:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-03 15:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-09-07 15:20 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2016-09-07 15:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-07 17:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-09-07 19:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-08 01:10 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-09-08 01:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2016-09-08 02:00 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-09-08 05:50 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-09-08 06:30 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2016-09-08 13:40 +0200
Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2016-09-08 13:50 +0200
GNU (was Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?) "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2016-09-08 15:20 +0200
Re: GNU (was Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?) Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2016-09-08 15:40 +0200
Re: GNU "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2016-09-08 16:20 +0200
Page 6 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6]
| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-07 15:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <seKVI-db-25@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171728 |
>>> In Korea, all most people are using KakaoTalk (android app).
>>> If i am wrong, sorry, and let it go to off-topic.
>> It's not decentralized. IOW you're dependent on one central
>> server/company and everything goes through them, they get an insane
>> amount of data and power this way.
Of course, another major problem with it, AFAICT, is that there's no
Free Software client for it.
> By your comments, i did get KakaoTalk internal, thanks!!!
Sorry, but I don't know what you mean by that.
Stefan
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| From | Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-07 15:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <seLoK-n1-41@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171840 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote: > >>> In Korea, all most people are using KakaoTalk (android app). > >>> If i am wrong, sorry, and let it go to off-topic. > >> It's not decentralized. IOW you're dependent on one central > >> server/company and everything goes through them, they get an insane > >> amount of data and power this way. > > Of course, another major problem with it, AFAICT, is that there's no > Free Software client for it. > For Android, there's Serval Mesh, available on Google Play and f-droid.org. But depends on actually coming across a wifi hotspot with other serval users connected at the same time you are to pass messages store-and-forward style...
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| From | "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-07 17:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <seNgR-1zr-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171840 |
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> 께서 쓰시길, 《記事 全文 <jwv7fan7t6b.fsf-monnier+gmane.linux.debian.user@gnu.org> 에서》: >>>> In Korea, all most people are using KakaoTalk (android app). >>>> If i am wrong, sorry, and let it go to off-topic. >>> It's not decentralized. IOW you're dependent on one central >>> server/company and everything goes through them, they get an insane >>> amount of data and power this way. > > Of course, another major problem with it, AFAICT, is that there's no > Free Software client for it. Free Software is diffcult to non-programmer such me. >> By your comments, i did get KakaoTalk internal, thanks!!! > > Sorry, but I don't know what you mean by that. Stefan, still i am work-in-progress in English, never mind it, that was just my lame writing, there is no mean. Thank you for your kind comments, indeed. -- ^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-07 19:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <seOmC-2g5-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171848 |
> Free Software is diffcult to non-programmer such me.
This is a Debian discussion group. I think we all here agree that
there's no reason Free Software should be difficult for non-programmers.
Stefan
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| From | Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-08 01:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <seU8G-6oM-27@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171852 |
On 2016년 9월 8일 오전 1시 50분 8초 GMT+09:00, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote: >> Free Software is diffcult to non-programmer such me. > >This is a Debian discussion group. I think we all here agree that >there's no reason Free Software should be difficult for >non-programmers. > > > Stefan OK Stefan. I have to say that i like you. Because you really love Free Software policy. However i cannot tell people to use Free Software. Free Software policy is too stric to keep. Instead, i tell poeple that open source software is useful and good. Anyway i respect Debian project, except Free Software policy. Sincerely, -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-08 01:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <seUs1-6uT-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171878 |
Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > Anyway i respect Debian project, except Free Software policy. LoL
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| From | Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-08 02:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <seUV4-6Ec-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171878 |
On Thu, 08 Sep 2016 08:00:25 +0900 Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> wrote: > OK Stefan. I have to say that i like you. Because you really love Free > Software policy. However i cannot tell people to use Free Software. > Free Software policy is too stric to keep. Instead, i tell poeple that > open source software is useful and good. > > Anyway i respect Debian project, except Free Software policy. > > Sincerely, > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. If I am not mistaken, K-9 Mail actually is free software, too :-) Regards Michael .-.. .. ...- . .-.. --- -. --. .- -. -.. .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-. When a child is taught ... its programmed with simple instructions -- and at some point, if its mind develops properly, it exceeds the sum of what it was taught, thinks independently. -- Dr. Richard Daystrom, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4731.3.
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| From | Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-08 05:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <seYvD-xM-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171884 |
On 2016년 9월 8일 오전 8시 56분 7초 GMT+09:00, Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> wrote: >On Thu, 08 Sep 2016 08:00:25 +0900 >Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> wrote: > >> OK Stefan. I have to say that i like you. Because you really love >Free >> Software policy. However i cannot tell people to use Free Software. >> Free Software policy is too stric to keep. Instead, i tell poeple >that >> open source software is useful and good. >> >> Anyway i respect Debian project, except Free Software policy. >> >> Sincerely, >> -- >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > >If I am not mistaken, K-9 Mail actually is free software, too :-) > >Regards > >Michael > > >.-.. .. ...- . .-.. --- -. --. .- -. -.. .--. .-. --- ... .--. . >.-. > >When a child is taught ... its programmed with simple instructions -- >and at some point, if its mind develops properly, it exceeds the sum of >what it was taught, thinks independently. > -- Dr. Richard Daystrom, "The Ultimate Computer", > stardate 4731.3. Dear Stefan, deloptes and Michael, My meant is that 100% rules/policy is not easy to keep for FSF-like Free Software by the definition. The base my mind is for FOSS things. Only in real life i have some trouble because my country Korea is still under MS-Windows softwares also my shop use Windows XP for work. Thanks! -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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| From | Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-08 06:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <seZ8l-12F-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171885 |
Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> writes: > My meant is that 100% rules/policy is not easy to keep for FSF-like > Free Software by the definition. Your statement was that you did not think you could tell people to use free software. Do you still think so? Why? Do you believe “keep 100% rules/policy” is necessary for a person using free software? What does that mean? > Only in real life i have some trouble because my country Korea is > still under MS-Windows softwares also my shop use Windows XP for work. You have our sympathy :-) Please keep promoting use of free software, even for people currently who are also using non-free software. -- \ “I like to fill my bathtub up with water, then turn the shower | `\ on and pretend I'm in a submarine that's been hit.” —Steven | _o__) Wright | Ben Finney
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| From | Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-08 13:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sf5Qt-5dl-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171887 |
Ben Finney wrote: > Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> writes: > >> My meant is that 100% rules/policy is not easy to keep for FSF-like >> Free Software by the definition. > [snip] > > Do you believe “keep 100% rules/policy” is necessary for a person using > free software? What does that mean? I think he means he doesn't see the "you must use free software" approach as the best for the general users. This is at odds (AFAICT) with Debian's stance on the matter. -- |_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947 |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O|
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| From | Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-08 13:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sf60a-5gF-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171894 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Thu, Sep 08, 2016 at 11:29:21AM -0000, Dan Purgert wrote: >Ben Finney wrote: >> Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> writes: >> >>> My meant is that 100% rules/policy is not easy to keep for FSF-like >>> Free Software by the definition. >> [snip] >> >> Do you believe “keep 100% rules/policy” is necessary for a person using >> free software? What does that mean? > >I think he means he doesn't see the "you must use free software" >approach as the best for the general users. This is at odds (AFAICT) >with Debian's stance on the matter. Debian's stance isn't "you must use free software" but rather "we can only distribute software we are allowed to". Debian does not forbid people from installing software which they (the user) have permission to use but which they (Debian) does not have permission to distribute. The best-known example is Adobe's Flash Player. Debian does not have permission to distribute this. Users DO have permission to download and install it, though, so Debian provides a downloader/installer package which automates the user's actions. This is where Debian differs from the "ideals" of the Free Software Foundation. If the FSF had their way, such tacit approval of Non-Free software would be banned. I'm surprised that Grub (A GNU program) deigns to load Windows :) > >-- >|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947 >|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert >|O|O|O| > -- For more information, please reread.
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| From | "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-08 15:20 +0200 |
| Subject | GNU (was Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?) |
| Message-ID | <sf7pg-6h3-37@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171895 |
Hi, Darac Marjal wrote: > I'm surprised that Grub (A GNU program) deigns to load Windows :) If GNU can get people into using GNU software without giving up its core values, then it normally does. E.g. there is absolutely no ban on offering GNU software for proprietary OSes. The FSF does not force GNU programs to fully follow the political goals of FSF. The programs shall, however, not work against those goals. https://www.gnu.org/help/evaluation.html Distributing, advising, or easing installation of non-free software is considered to be against the goals. On the other hand if GNU was still waiting for The Hurd to become a usable kernel, then we all would sit at M$ PCs and iMac polycarbonate sculptures. So the FSF as a compromise promotes GNU/Linuxes which are a bit more dogmatic than Debian: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html The criticism against Debian is in https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.en.html Nevertheless there are several Debian people active in GNU packages. General reasoning for FSF positions is collected in https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html Have a nice day :) Thomas
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| From | Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-08 15:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: GNU (was Re: Decentralized reliable instant messaging?) |
| Message-ID | <sf7IB-6nq-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171896 |
On 9/8/16, Thomas Schmitt <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote: > > If GNU can get people into using GNU software without giving up its > core values, then it normally does. > E.g. there is absolutely no ban on offering GNU software for proprietary > OSes. > > The FSF does not force GNU programs to fully follow the political goals > of FSF. The programs shall, however, not work against those goals. > https://www.gnu.org/help/evaluation.html > > Distributing, advising, or easing installation of non-free software > is considered to be against the goals. On the other hand if GNU was > still waiting for The Hurd to become a usable kernel, then we all would > sit at M$ PCs and iMac polycarbonate sculptures. > So the FSF as a compromise promotes GNU/Linuxes which are a bit more > dogmatic than Debian: > https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html > > The criticism against Debian is in > https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.en.html > Nevertheless there are several Debian people active in GNU packages. > > General reasoning for FSF positions is collected in > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html THANK YOU! Good, quick, cognitively friendly read. Nice to be able to note the other recognizable, popular distros likewise highlighted by GNU. Am surely showing my ignorance by saying this, but the appearance is their objection to some of Debian might be easily fixable..... Maybe. It taking additional monies, related resources to maintain comes first to mind. ? :) A potential user objection I was reading into in the last couple days here.. Things could be "worse" to that end (depending on one's viewpoint) if Debian became more stringent in order to get off GNU's gnaughty list page there. This is timely since I'm now battling both wifi and Bluetooth so I just minutes ago tripped over the firmware-iwlwifi package in the process. It's readily available in spite of my one-liner /etc/apt/sources.list file. That's compared to my remembering feeling really guilty installing the same when I still had to track it down for a fully manual install outside of a larger, much busier sources.list file a couple years ago. Maybe that wasn't for Debian, though, or maybe I'm forgetting some minor, very important detail from then. *grin* Cindy :) -- Cindy-Sue Causey Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA * runs with plastic sporks *
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| From | "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-08 16:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: GNU |
| Message-ID | <sf8lj-6Sl-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #171898 |
Hi, (i maintain GNU xorriso but do not speak for GNU or FSF) Cindy-Sue Causey wrote: > their objection to some of Debian might be easily fixable The Debian position is that one should help people to install on hardware of which the manufacturer imposed unsurpassable obstacles for pure FSF-compliant systems. Classic is the wireless hardware which you need to connect to the internet in order to get the bulk of Debian packages. If Debian does not provide the free-as-in-beer software blobs to drive the hardware, or if Linux would not offer opportunities to attach such a software blob, then the laptops in question would be reserved to proprietary OSes. It is a matter of policy priorities. So it can only be settled if one side gives in despite believing to be right - or if the need for free-beer-only blobs vanishes. (The model is "free as in free beer" versus "free as in free speech". The owner may at any time close the beer tap, but nobody is entitled to forbid the continuation of chatter.) > if Debian became more stringent in order to get off GNU's > gnaughty list page there Not really likely, i'd say. We will stay on the grey list and will have to feel bad conscience when making use of Debian's offer to help installing non-free software. Ubuntu is one step further towards the beer tap. It aims at the mindset of M$ and iMac users. Things have to "just work". For that goal they are accused to sell little pieces of their souls. (Only SteamOS will get a place nearer to the infernal fire.) > firmware-iwlwifi package [...] remembering feeling really guilty It's forgiven, now that you confessed publicly. I hereby confess to still use xv. Have a nice day :) Thomas
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